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PUGs UNITE!!!


Briggs_Knightly

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Or you could unite now.

 

By forming your own groups.

 

And getting into vent.

 

I'm just saying, why let BW control when you'll finally get to have fun. Take control of your game now.

 

pretty lame response to be honest.

 

Its like saying if you dont want to get bullied, dont go to school if you are a small guy, or join a gang and bully the other guys!

 

... how about neither. Perhaps if the bullies fought each other the little guys wouldnt feel like they need to drop out of school.

 

Im playing devil's advocate, of course, but to me it seems everyone would be happier if they just separated the queues or improved the matchmaking algorithms once and for all. competition for the premades, and training wheels for the PUG crowd. Seems win-win for everyone.

 

Im just getting kind of tired of seeing the same lame responses justifying a poor matchmaking system. Joining the bullies in order to not get bullied is not the real answer here.

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just quit already!! You are not listening or reading. You do not know if you have a premade on your team or not. You can not use the analogy of premades or pugs because you do not know for sure if you have premades or pugs. Guild tags maybe but what about the people who are not in guilds and group up with friends. That is also a premade so how can you prove that you never have premades. My parents taught me that if i dont like something either i do something about it or just deal with it. So if you are going to quit you might as well.

 

It sounds like the OP is really just looking for some improvements to the matchmaking system, which seems fair to me - Good PvP'ers want to play against other good PvP'ers, so it would be positive for everyone. I think this goes beyond just premades vs pugs (but that should be 1 of the factors in the queue system).

 

The only reason I can see being against enhancing the matchmaking system, is that there aren't enough players queueing to limit the criteria, and it would increase wait times. So, I think they really need cross-server queuing before they introduce better matchmaking.

 

As a side note, I would venture a guess that people complain about this more often that in other games because SWTOR is severely lacking the world pvp outlet (which is a little more forgiving with skill level than warzones,imho).

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pretty lame response to be honest.

 

Its like saying if you dont want to get bullied, dont go to school if you are a small guy, or join a gang and bully the other guys!

 

... how about neither. Perhaps if the bullies fought each other the little guys wouldnt feel like they need to drop out of school.

 

Im playing devil's advocate, of course, but to me it seems everyone would be happier if they just separated the queues or improved the matchmaking algorithms once and for all. competition for the premades, and training wheels for the PUG crowd. Seems win-win for everyone.

 

Im just getting kind of tired of seeing the same lame responses justifying a poor matchmaking system. Joining the bullies in order to not get bullied is not the real answer here.

 

actually a more appropriate analogy would be suggesting to the little guy that he learn to fight and stand up for himself so he can kick the bully's a**

 

and i developed an algorithm for non-ranked matchmaking the other day. its probably on page 3 by now, b/c threads that dont involve nerfs or whining about something get very little attention here.

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It sounds like the OP is really just looking for some improvements to the matchmaking system, which seems fair to me - Good PvP'ers want to play against other good PvP'ers, so it would be positive for everyone. I think this goes beyond just premades vs pugs (but that should be 1 of the factors in the queue system).

 

The only reason I can see being against enhancing the matchmaking system, is that there aren't enough players queueing to limit the criteria, and it would increase wait times. So, I think they really need cross-server queuing before they introduce better matchmaking.

 

As a side note, I would venture a guess that people complain about this more often that in other games because SWTOR is severely lacking the world pvp outlet (which is a little more forgiving with skill level than warzones,imho).

 

You are right! I want to play against good people also, but it never was an issue between pugs and premades. It is a matchmaking issue. separating the queues will not make it better. If there is a separate queue but one team gets 8 mercs and the other team gets 2 healers, 2 tanks, 4 dps is that fair??????? Do they really think by separating the queues you will get better match ups??????

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I've played on both sides of the coin. I've been in pre-mades (never ranked tho) and I've been in normal PUG's. No matter what your argument, if a group of no less than 4 queues for a WZ, they should be put with another group of no less than 4 for a WZ. And in the end, it should be 2 groups of 4 vs to groups of 4 on the other side.

 

Why make people who queue for a pre-made suffer with players who queue solo and in the end may only contribute a small percentage to a win and an even larger percentage to a loss? Same can be said for people who queue solo except why have a pre-made group of 4 who may be organized have to carry a group of solo players who may not care so much about being organized? It doesn't make sense. Biggest issue I see in WZ's is that people do not work together. What makes you think they are going to work with a pre-made to contribute to the win except being in the right spot at the right time?

 

I'm all for separate queues in WZs, however I see that the problem would be that it would take longer to actually get into a WZ. In that regard, they need to make cross server PvP matches in this game which as we've seen they seem not to want to deliver.

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When do you want people to get booted into the "preform ghetto"? Two people grouped together? Three? Four?

 

Should my wife and I get sent against fully optimized preforms just because we group together? What if our sniper friend joins us, making it jugg/sniper/sniper?

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You are just silly. Can you not read...

 

I do not want to play IN a premade. I said so above.

 

I enjoy playing with and against different people all the time.

There were a whole lot of people like me.

Now there are fewer and soon will be none unless EA does something to keep us interested.

 

So you don't want to play in a permade. I must say sir there is a real mistake on your part. i useto play in PUG groups all the time and night after night i would love 95% of my warzone matches....But i recently joined a good PvP Guild And have been on a few permade teams AND I LOVED IT We were unbeatable....So take the advice everyone is trying to give you and start a team of your own.

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Or you could unite now.

 

By forming your own groups.

 

And getting into vent.

 

I'm just saying, why let BW control when you'll finally get to have fun. Take control of your game now.

 

I think we should just answer every anit premade thread by quoting this response again and again. Just make every post include this quote.

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Then do not CRY because you probably have a premade in every group you are in. Either deal with it or quit. WE DONT CARE!@!!!!!!!!1

 

Just out of curiosity; if you don't care if all PUGs quit, and therefore would be gone from the queue, what do you care if they get a solo-queue? Same thing funtionally, One way keeps people paying to help develop the game.

Edited by Technohic
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I think we should just answer every anit premade thread by quoting this response again and again. Just make every post include this quote.

 

lol, that doesn't sound very helpful :p.. Something more productive might be to determine what the root of the problem is (ie: why are people asking for premades to queue separately), then propose ideas for solutions to that problem. For example:

 

Problem: People say they don't want to queue against premades when they're in PUGs

 

Root Cause: People don't like one-sided warzones. It's boring for good players, and frustrating for baddies.

 

Solution / Idea: Devs should add cross-server queuing. Devs should then add logic to the queue system to check warzone/pvp experience at the account level and factor that with the group their in (and whether they're in one) - try to queue them with and against others at a similar level, on a timer. This could be done like a scoring system where each player gets 'X' points (invisible back-end code) for each factor in determining how good a player/premade is - the system should add up the scores of the players on each team and try to queue teams together so that the teams are within 'X' points of each other. As the queue timer progresses without starting a warzone, the matching system loosens the gap between points, to ensure people don't end up waiting long periods of time for the "right" match.

 

Just a thought ;)

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lol, that doesn't sound very helpful :p.. Something more productive might be to determine what the root of the problem is (ie: why are people asking for premades to queue separately), then propose ideas for solutions to that problem. For example:

 

Problem: People say they don't want to queue against premades when they're in PUGs

 

Root Cause: People don't like one-sided warzones. It's boring for good players, and frustrating for baddies.

 

Solution / Idea: Devs should add cross-server queuing. Devs should then add logic to the queue system to check warzone/pvp experience at the account level and factor that with the group their in (and whether they're in one) - try to queue them with and against others at a similar level, on a timer. This could be done like a scoring system where each player gets 'X' points (invisible back-end code) for each factor in determining how good a player/premade is - the system should add up the scores of the players on each team and try to queue teams together so that the teams are within 'X' points of each other. As the queue timer progresses without starting a warzone, the matching system loosens the gap between points, to ensure people don't end up waiting long periods of time for the "right" match.

 

Just a thought ;)

 

ZOMG YOU ARE THE FIRST PERSON TO THINK OF THAT

 

:rolleyes:

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It's kind of what makes the argument silly. We all know they have crappy matchmaking if any, and have said they want to improve that yet people post that they want separate queues, then others post derogatory statements about pugs and it goes back and forth.

 

Matchmaking. That should be all that needs to be said.

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When do you want people to get booted into the "preform ghetto"? Two people grouped together? Three? Four?

 

Should my wife and I get sent against fully optimized preforms just because we group together? What if our sniper friend joins us, making it jugg/sniper/sniper?

 

Sure why not? We can make a 2v8 or 3v8 wz for you and your wife.

 

Everyone else will play the standard 8v8, but just for you, we can make a special warzone queue like that. All the other 2 man teams can get a 4 man and another 2 man with them, but you are special, so you get to just go in with that.

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while i agree with you that premades should be seperate from the pugs but right now its not viable because:

 

1. BW will not or cannot instill a cross server pvp que.

2. who wants to sit around for 2+ hours in que for rateds because there is not enough on the server queing for them.

3. most good players get bored steamrolling pugs so the only ones that do it on a constant basis are the ones that want easy wins.

4. the devs dont seem to put pvp as a priority so any agressive changes will take along time if at all.

 

I will not be quiting this game i love the story and i like star wars, the only strong issue i have with this game is with the resolve changes that happened in patch 1.4

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...

 

This is the first online game I've played where so many people stood behind the idea of "nerf team work".

 

It's a pretty ridiculous idea. That's exactly what makes online gaming great.

 

You don't exactly understand the problem. No one wants to nerf team work. We just want to separate any kind of "work" (it was your choice of words and very good one, I might add) from "fun". Many players find it fun to play in a random team against a random team. Many players do not want to do anything that resembles work or too heavy commitment and simply want to have fun. In losing or winning. With like minded people. Which you are not a part of.

And that is also the reason to separate your play from mine. They are different.

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Bump because we seriously need a proper matchmaking system. Anyone with a brain can admit the current system is not working. I group and solo queue often, the system repels the vast majority of the player base which happen to be PUG oriented casuals while catering to a severe minority, the more organized pre-mades. While I do think both sides deserve adequate attention, the answer is not to force grouping on everyone, we desperately need cross realm function to resuscitate Ranked for the Premades and adequate matchmaking when they happen to trickle down into Normals and also to keep games competitive instead of one sided, I have been spewing this for several months. If it doesn't happen soon we will indeed lose most of the PUG Minded casual people, which believe it or not compromise a much bigger portion of the player base than do any other classification of people. Losing the vast majority of any game's player base is bad for the game as a whole. Edited by LeonHawkeye
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I'm a PUGger, and also a casual. Because I don't play all that much (8-10hours a week) I feel I'm not really guild-material. So I pug all the time.

 

But according to the suggestions here, I'd never get the chance to play with and against well coordinated people. This is not something I support. I like teamwork, and I like the challenge to promote teamwork in a pug. So far, while leveling my lowbees, I have seen some very good coordination coming from people with obvious experience. I also tend to throw in suggestions when I see fit (ie. Focus Healer and I mark them, or headcounting in Novare Coast to see where the enemy is/could be).

 

I want the opportunity to see better people performing so I can learn from them. Maybe eventually, some guild will adopt me because they recognized my contributions to winning the warzone.

 

EDIT: A good solution would be to have some actual Open World PvP for the people that just want to have fun instead of organized games.

Edited by SpoeMeister
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The biggest problem, in my opinion, is that the games are objective based and a lot of people want to play FFA.

 

They want to go in, have chuck norris lightsaber fun and leave.

 

Unfortunately it's not how pvp works in this game. There's objectives and you need half your brain and a team to win.

 

That said, I really dont understand why people choose to pug exclusively. Every character I levelled, or am levelling, I meet nice, decent playing people in warzones and questing. And I always add them to my list for a future match. Because it's more fun not having to eat my keyboard out of frustration because of all the mistakes the FFA-players make, in this objective based game.

Simple as that.

 

Maybe a suggestion could be to implement group finder for pvp, if matchmaking is too hard to achieve.

If there's two groups with a semi decent setup in a team, they're one step close to being competitive.

 

People don't have to use it. But they have a better chance on a good game and thus; some fun, if they will.

And as a bonus: you meet some people you know you can rely on. And guess what? You can add them to your friendslist, to make the groupfinder wait shorter the next time. :sul_wink:

Edited by Ganjavus
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"bioware, they beat me! i want to win! make it so i dont have to play against good players anymore!"

 

:rolleyes:

 

sometimes it's just complaining yes, but dude you know there's pugstomping groups that could be in ranked wz's but they bottom feed off of recruit geared fresh 50's with their EWH full-augment gear. daily. because it's more fun than fighting fair fights in ranked.

 

i partly blame bw for not having cross server with some sort of gearcheck that puts matches together based loosely on gear comparison, but i also blame the geared players for picking on ungeared players on purpose because being in god-mode is fun. this game is built solely around gear, smash/force sweep and stuns, rather than any actual skill when it comes to pvp. when you add vent and coordinated team with gear smash/sweep and stuns against a pug group with no gear and if you refuse to acknowledge theres an unfair set up then you're either ignorant or lying because you're on the fun side of the pugstomp

Edited by Feztonio
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Sure why not? We can make a 2v8 or 3v8 wz for you and your wife.

 

I think either you've missed my point or you're trolling. ;-) You could make the same argument for everyone ************ about solo queues resulting in going up against preforms (with the implied +7 other random people added). It's a silly argument.

 

My point was: if you're going to have a queue for "preforms" (including partials) and a queue for "non-preforms", where do you draw the line?

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Why not also make separate queues for those who don't want to play with expertise as well then?

 

Hell, lets make separate queues for those who wants to play without tanks, or without heals, or without dps.

 

Oh, and the BS you're saying about the game dying if you don't get what you want.. That's just what that is, ********.

Edited by shojj
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