I have only tanked a small amount on WoW(literally like 25 levels) and I would like to make a tank here. I was wondering which class would be the easiest to learn and be a blast at endgame. Btw I have been playing since early access but just haven't made a tank yet lol. Any advice would be appreciated!

The easiest to play is, most assuredly, VG/PT: it's got a super simple priority/rotation and the fewest buttons to click, by far, of all of the tanks; the only even remotely complex thing about VG tanking is ammo management, which can be summed up as "don't drop below 8".

 

In addition, it's the easiest to level because it relies the most on armor (so it relies less on actual tank stats) and starts off with excellent AoE capability (which makes it way easier to hold aggro right from the start, which is one of the problems with running as a Shadow or Guardian).

 

The only problem you *might* have is that VGs are often reviled by players that simply get *bored* playing them at 50 because they are just *so. freakin'. simple.* However, if you're looking to learn, there's no better class to let you focus on actually learning tanking, as well as actually focusing on learning the relevant fights.

That's great because I was kinda hoping to make a BH soon and a PT tank would be awesome! And they get a healer companion from the start

 

Are they viable for pvp? Guarding healers, protecting objectives, and stuff like that? I plan to do just about everything but PVE will be the main focus once I hit 50.

VG tanks may annoy you later when you realise that you have travel delay on your taunts which the other two tanks do not (VG taunts are missiles (as in a launched object) not an instant effect).

Are they viable for pvp?

 

VG/PT tanks are the worst PvP tanks mainly because the simplicity that makes them easy to learn also means that they don't have the same toolbox that the other tanks get. Of course, if you just want to PvP rather than specifically PvP *tank*, Assault VG/Pyro PTs are *disgustingly* good PvP DPS thanks to their ridiculous burst damage.

Well I guess I can always just respec for pvp or just wing it. As a tank I will be stacking endurance at endgame but what stat should be my second priority? Absorb? Defense?

As a tank I will be stacking endurance at endgame but what stat should be my second priority? Absorb? Defense?

 

No, you will *not* be stacking Endurance, not if you want anyone to take you seriously as a tank. Endurance stacking on *any* tank is bad, especially the VG because they get *absolutely no benefit* out of Endurance other than a larger hp pool (Guardians get bigger Enure and Shadows get bigger self heals so there is *some* excuse for it; VGs get nothing).

 

As a VG, your best stats to stack are Shield (you want as much as you can get your hands on) and Absorb. You still want a substantial token quantity of Defense, but nowhere near enough to describe as "stacking" it. Until you start looking at BH/Camp/DG gear, it matters more that you're getting *better* gear than how you explicitly optimize it, so don't make a big deal of it while you're leveling or just starting end game content. When you do get to the point where optimization matters, this thread is incredibly useful at telling you what ratio you need to maintain between your relevant tank stats.

 

Also, it should be mentioned that, as a VG tank, Accuracy is a thoroughly *wasted* stat (this applies to all tanks, but it bears mentioning since VG tanks get the absolute least out of it): the only attacks you use that benefit from Accuracy, *in the least*, are Hammer Shot and High Impact Bolt, neither of which is going to be a substantial portion of your total DPS or TPS. As such, it's, for all intents and purposes, a waste of itemization.

I see, well I will definitely not do what I was thinking lol. Didn't realize that endurance was so useless.

I see, well I will definitely not do what I was thinking lol. Didn't realize that endurance was so useless.

 

Endurance is not 'useless', but you don't need to go out of your way to get it. On the flip side, don't replace all your armoring with high aim/low end ones either.

Endurance is not 'useless', but you don't need to go out of your way to get it. On the flip side, don't replace all your armoring with high aim/low end ones either.

 

I swap out all of my armorings for high main stat/low End and I've never had problems. In fact, the massive amount of main stat makes me simply disgustingly effective at threat generation and DPS output (for a tank). I do it for all of my tanks when I can. The only reason I would use the high End armorings is if I absolutely needed them in order to get to the magical 25k hp needed for BiS 8m.

the advantage of playing a PT tank is that you have to pay less attention to your attacks/rotation, which leaves you free to pay more attention to your surroundings/teammates/fight itself, which is IMO more important than refreshing a buff every 12 secs (Assassins) or being fully focused on making an inhuman effort to hold aggro (Jugg) Edited February 18, 2013 by RendValor

No, you will *not* be stacking Endurance, not if you want anyone to take you seriously as a tank. Endurance stacking on *any* tank is bad, especially the VG because they get *absolutely no benefit* out of Endurance other than a larger hp pool (Guardians get bigger Enure and Shadows get bigger self heals so there is *some* excuse for it; VGs get nothing).

 

Vanguards absolutely do get a benefit from having more endurance. Adrenaline Rush: 15% HP over 10 seconds, 2 minute cooldown in tank spec. Each extra point of End gives 10 HP, 15% of which is 1.5 HP. If you're tanking endgame content you should have a +1% healing received bonus from taking a healer companion's story line to completion, which gets you 1.515 heals/1 point of End/2 minutes.

Vanguards absolutely do get a benefit from having more endurance. Adrenaline Rush: 15% HP over 10 seconds, 2 minute cooldown in tank spec. Each extra point of End gives 10 HP, 15% of which is 1.5 HP. If you're tanking endgame content you should have a +1% healing received bonus from taking a healer companion's story line to completion, which gets you 1.515 heals/1 point of End/2 minutes.

 

~.0126 hp/sec is so little it might as well be *nothing*. To get 1 hp/sec, assuming you're using Adrenaline Rush on CD, requires 79 Endurance. The gains from Endurance for VGs are *so absolutely minute* that using Endurance to improve your actual survivability would be like using Accuracy to increase your DPS: yes, it will do *something*, but it's so little you're never going to notice.

Like I said in a previous post, competent tanks use DPS armorings/hilt/barrel and a pair of power crystals

Like I said in a previous post, competent tanks use DPS armorings/hilt/barrel and a pair of power crystals

I'm not sure what your definition of competent is, because if your not gearing for the content your doing, thats pretty dumb. You could get away with that in 8man hardmodes, but I would be very skeptical of the viability of a 21k health tank in anything harder.

I would be very skeptical of the viability of a 21k health tank in anything harder.

 

I've absolutely minimized the hp on my Shadow, and I've got 25k hp, buffed and stimmed, which is more than enough to run anything except for 16m NiM EC (wherein you'd want to trade in some of those Resolve armorings for Force Wielder to push yourself up to 26-27k hp). A VG that does the same (unlettered mods, Reflex armoring and barrels, high shield enhs, etc.) will come out with 23.7k hp; to pull yourself up to the magic 25k mark, you can just swap out the crystals for Endurance crystals (pulls you up to 24.5k) and potentially a few armorings (if being within 500 of the 25k mark isn't enough).

 

Pretty much any tank that isn't running around in Rakata gear is going to have in excess of 23k hp, especially if they're actually stimmed like they're supposed to.

I suppose I'm not taking issue with fitting in as much main stat possible and still being within the 25k window. Its just the blanket statement that all tanks should use low endurance everything, and if you don't your incompetent.

 

Its a shame that the jugg is limited in this regard, as they would have the most to gain out of stacking as much main stat as possible. I've always wondered if endure pain is designed to make up for the fact that juggs don't have a +endurance skill, or if it's just an oversight.

 

Does good use of endure pain offset a lower health pool to mean that juggs don't have to abide by the 25k health threshold?

I suppose I'm not taking issue with fitting in as much main stat possible and still being within the 25k window. Its just the blanket statement that all tanks should use low endurance everything, and if you don't your incompetent.

 

The issue is that you don't need to stack Endurance *in any appreciable sense* in order to reach the magical 25k threshold: as I've pointed out, you can get there using an absolute *minimum* of Endurance specific gear (2 crystals and 3-4 armorings/hilts/enh/mods). Anyone that goes *beyond* that baseline level of Endurance isn't likely to be a particularly effective tank; either that or they're trying to make up for bad healers that require a larger reaction time cushion.

 

Does good use of endure pain offset a lower health pool to mean that juggs don't have to abide by the 25k health threshold?

 

The mechanical reasons that you want 25k hp are due to consistent, high incoming damage phases and potential burst damage scenarios that occur in relatively rapid succession (once every 20 seconds or so). As such, Enure wouldn't really make up for it because you're only getting the benefit of it for 10/15 seconds every 90 seconds. While Enure would cover you for the first time you need the hp cushion, it wouldn't be up for the second or likely third.

Assassins/Shadows are the best tanks in my opinion as they can constantly pull healing and actually do some decent damage as a tank, though they aren't very good at tanking till level 50 due to not much gear having good tank stats and then you're basically left with light armour.

I have only tanked a small amount on WoW(literally like 25 levels) and I would like to make a tank here. I was wondering which class would be the easiest to learn and be a blast at endgame. Btw I have been playing since early access but just haven't made a tank yet lol. Any advice would be appreciated!

 

Tanking with a Shadow is like turning the autopilot on. It's also the most fun of all tanks - you get stealth and a soft cc. To make things even easier, your mdps companion can wear your dps gear. And she's hot.

 

Like I said in a previous post, competent tanks use DPS armorings/hilt/barrel and a pair of power crystals

 

A competent Shadow tank does not need dps output to generate threat and hold aggro. Even though your additional dps will help, it will help by such a small amount you're better off having a larger health pool. If your team is hitting enrage, that's not the problem of your dps as tank. Also, your higher health combined with the fact that you're not losing aggro (if you're competent, that is) allows your healer to throw out some of his rdps.

Edited February 19, 2013 by slafko

The issue is that you don't need to stack Endurance *in any appreciable sense* in order to reach the magical 25k threshold: as I've pointed out, you can get there using an absolute *minimum* of Endurance specific gear (2 crystals and 3-4 armorings/hilts/enh/mods). Anyone that goes *beyond* that baseline level of Endurance isn't likely to be a particularly effective tank; either that or they're trying to make up for bad healers that require a larger reaction time cushion.

Again I'm not advocating against this, its just that using endurance crystals, hilt and 3-4 armorings is not using *main stat everything*, and for a jugg you would need to use more just to hit 25k. Your rationale has detail and context, its not the simple "use high main stat everything or your bad" quote I took issue with.

The mechanical reasons that you want 25k hp are due to consistent, high incoming damage phases and potential burst damage scenarios that occur in relatively rapid succession (once every 20 seconds or so). As such, Enure wouldn't really make up for it because you're only getting the benefit of it for 10/15 seconds every 90 seconds. While Enure would cover you for the first time you need the hp cushion, it wouldn't be up for the second or likely third.

Yea, it just feels icky having to use more endurance then the other tanks, when threat generation for juggs is so far behind the other tanks. A jugg can only get away with a might hilt, everything else has to be guardian stuff *just* to hit 25k with the exo stim. Only thing left to try would be doing a switcharoo with enhancements to indirectly trade shield rating for main stat. On an unrelated note, assuming a hybrid build using force scream on cooldown, how does endurance compare to strength?

Only thing left to try would be doing a switcharoo with enhancements to indirectly trade shield rating for main stat.

 

Considering the terrible returns Guardians get from Shield rating, I've contemplated recommending this, if only because Endurance otherwise comes at the cost of Strength which will bolster both threat *and* mitigation.

 

On an unrelated note, assuming a hybrid build using force scream on cooldown, how does endurance compare to strength?

 

Endurance compared to pretty much any stat errs on the side of the other stat after you've achieved the minimum hp required. This is even more true for Guardians wherein you have the wonderful benefit of treating Strength as a mitigation stat to some extent because of Blade Barrier. However, the conversion rate between Strength and the absorb of Blade Barrier is pretty friggin' terrible and is only really apparent if/when you analyze damage taken over the course of an extended period of time so it's not going to be a major game changer. The bigger benefit is, honestly, going to be the increased damage and threat generation.

Kind of off topic, but since talk was made of Juggs and threat generation....

My tank-mate in my Ops team is a Jugg. The problem started a couple weeks ago, where all of a sudden he couldn't keep threat. No gear changes... either on his part, or the DPS. Just all of a sudden.... Threat issues.

After about a week he dropped a ticket with CS. They eventually got back with him and said that during one of the runs, he popped Enraged Defense just before he died. And supposedly what happened was that it stuck and continued to effect him all this time. The CSR had him log out so they could "reset" his character and log back in.

Had it been a PUG or anybody else but my battle-buddy, I woulda called BS.

Sure as ****.... He's like super glue again. Anyone else heard any craziness like this?

Edited February 21, 2013 by Grumpftard

I actually have to disagree with those recommending swapping endurance for mainstat - there really is no point to it. I could buy it for a jugg/guardian due to force scream buff, but for other tanks having that extra cushion is useful for "oh ****" moments, like if the other tank just died and you have to tank both bosses at the same time (or tank TFB with force scream on you - the jugg tank in my guild has done it even in 16 man, buying us the time needed to res the other tank and get him back to work) or if you hit an enrage, either a hard enrage or a soft enrage triggered by mechanics such as low HP. This is especially true for shadows/assassins due to the buff to self healing - IMO it's inexcusable to make that trade with those classes, you already have the best threat of any tank and don't need to swap stuff around for that reason, and endurance actually imporves your mitigation - if you can pick it up somewhere without sacrificing mitigation you should. I even go for the B mods on my assassin for that exact reason.

I actually have to disagree with those recommending swapping endurance for mainstat - there really is no point to it. I could buy it for a jugg/guardian due to force scream buff, but for other tanks having that extra cushion is useful for "oh ****" moments, like if the other tank just died and you have to tank both bosses at the same time (or tank TFB with force scream on you - the jugg tank in my guild has done it even in 16 man, buying us the time needed to res the other tank and get him back to work) or if you hit an enrage, either a hard enrage or a soft enrage triggered by mechanics such as low HP. This is especially true for shadows/assassins due to the buff to self healing - IMO it's inexcusable to make that trade with those classes, you already have the best threat of any tank and don't need to swap stuff around for that reason, and endurance actually imporves your mitigation - if you can pick it up somewhere without sacrificing mitigation you should. I even go for the B mods on my assassin for that exact reason.

 

Just because it may be useful in those limited situations where the healers and/or the other tank are being incompetent, doesn't mean it's justified over the more optimized setup

Edited February 21, 2013 by RendValor