The only thing about playing a LS bounty hunter is how you end up with Skadge. You are basically hiring a bloodthirsty guy who would like nothing less than to torture a planet's entire population and your BH says: welcome to the team. If only there was a LS option where I could jettison him out the airlock and into the sun. Skadge just doesn't fit in with how a LS hunter would be. For a DS hunter however you would probably fit in with him so much that you would probably invite him to you bachelor party before you marry Mako and make him the best man.

Yeah my main bounty hunter (mercenary) isn't pure light side (I followed the Bounty Hunter's Creed from the comics/novels as best the game would allow, which is pretty good... always surprise people that I was 10,000 with Mako by level 30 with no gifts) but shes about Light I or II. Even then, I was just like Seriously? I would not let this psychopath on my ship... *** Bioware.

The problem is that there are some characters you can't kill and others you can't spare. And the distinction is arbitrary.

If you can't spare Master Jarro, what reason is there to spare Gault? If you can't kill Gault, why do I have to kill Master Jarro? The reason that a Lightside Bounty Hunter gives to Jarro as to why he needs to kill him is that he has a code that he always keeps his contract. Except there is literally no way that is true because he didn't bring in Gault. A Lightside Hunter's merciful choices essentially amounts to a character that spares and kills people at random.

Second the whole premise of the Bounty Hunter's story is that he's only dependent on money, which frankly feels flimsy. Why do I need the money? I'm not any poorer than any other class of player character. The other three Imperial characters are actually forced to be in the situations they are in and still can somehow get away with disobeying direct orders in some cases. Yet the one class that is ostensibly the one independent Imperial character is actually railroaded the most because they are always participating in a professional murder competition and always for greed and glory.

Sith Warriors can commit outright treason by helping the enemy on occasion. In Act 1 at least, Sith and Agents can be given explicit orders to terminate someone and just ignore it,.

The problem is that there are some characters you can't kill and others you can't spare. And the distinction is arbitrary.

 

If you can't spare Master Jarro, what reason is there to spare Gault? If you can't kill Gault, why do I have to kill Master Jarro? The reason that a Lightside Bounty Hunter gives to Jarro as to why he needs to kill him is that he has a code that he always keeps his contract. Except there is literally no way that is true because he didn't bring in Gault. A Lightside Hunter's merciful choices essentially amounts to a character that spares and kills people at random.

 

Second the whole premise of the Bounty Hunter's story is that he's only dependent on money, which frankly feels flimsy. Why do I need the money? I'm not any poorer than any other class of player character. The other three Imperial characters are actually forced to be in the situations they are in and still can somehow get away with disobeying direct orders in some cases. Yet the one class that is ostensibly the one independent Imperial character is actually railroaded the most because they are always participating in a professional murder competition and always for greed and glory.

 

Sith Warriors can commit outright treason by helping the enemy on occasion. In Act 1 at least, Sith and Agents can be given explicit orders to terminate someone and just ignore it,.

My reply contains some spoilers, so doing the "right" thing and tagging it.

The problem here isn't that "lightside" doesn't fit, it's that the bounty hunter is hunting bounties but is pinned into the Empire's storylines. It makes no sense for a Bounty Hunter to be defaultly aligned to the Empire - even if the Mandalorians ARE helping them.

It would be fun if BH could choose between empire/republic planetary missiongivers. At least until up to the point where he kills his first jedi/republic official, which doesn't take long iirc.. In fact one of the best parts of the BH storyline for me was how things escalated from there and the BH ended up with the galaxy's highest bounty on his head.

Also

Vesper Lynd: "It doesn't bother you? Killing all those people?"

James Bond: "Well I wouldn't be very good at my job if it did."

- Casino Royale

ps. Some of the empire planetary missions are blatantly evil. However, technically you aren't required to do them. Just get xp from somewhere else.

pps. Theres some great discussion here. I myself enjoy playing bad guys, so empire storylines are often just what I want, but I can understand how people feel about the illogicalities of some of the story stuff such as being forced to take Skadge onboard.

I have to agree with what Mercurial_Harpy said. The BH storyline simply doesn't accommodate for this kind of character. Because ultimately you are in the employ of the Hutts, the Empire and the Sith. There is nothing noble about these people, they enslave, they are xenophobic, they commit genocide they exact suffering of others for personal enjoyment they revel in war and bloodshed and they want to take over the entire gosh darn galaxy.

Your "noble viglante" would never have worked for them in the first place.

Simply put, if you want the BH storyline to work then your going to have to sacrifice a few morals.

Though I must admit when you really start to scrutinize your character choices and try and define your character's morality, you are going to encounter some rough spots. I'm currently grappling with my DS BH trying to work out what he believes. I think its partly the above sentiment. He does his job, if that means cutting off someone's head and delivering it to his wife then fine. He isn't going to cut corners because if he does he fall to the bottom of the pile.

He's also generally adverse to showing weakness due to his personal history...

And I think this "noble vigilante" character helps with that, this character would not progress as a servant of the Empire, and he would never become the Republic's Most Wanted, he wouldn't even be able to complete the Great Hunt.

My main objection was that Agent and even Sith Lord PCs can more or less be rationalized to being a good person in a bad place. The Bounty Hunter is the only character forced to RP a bad person. And it's not even made clear to you right away. After Nar Shadda, Mako asks if we are any different from the Ideleon because she's worried about being the bad guys.

You can admit you are a bad guy but I picked the option to say that the people we bring down deserve it, and so far that had been true. But later on it unavoidably isn't. And the only options I have are between a murderous psychopath and a murderous hypocrite.

And yes exactly, he wouldn't compete in the Great Hunt. That's why the Great Hunt shouldn't have been the entirely of Act 1.

My main objection was that Agent and even Sith Lord PCs can more or less be rationalized to being a good person in a bad place. The Bounty Hunter is the only character forced to RP a bad person. And it's not even made clear to you right away. After Nar Shadda, Mako asks if we are any different from the Ideleon because she's worried about being the bad guys.

 

You can admit you are a bad guy but I picked the option to say that the people we bring down deserve it, and so far that had been true. But later on it unavoidably isn't. And the only options I have are between a murderous psychopath and a murderous hypocrite.

 

And yes exactly, he wouldn't compete in the Great Hunt. That's why the Great Hunt shouldn't have been the entirely of Act 1.

However I think the difference is that they are loyal to the Empire, which excuses many of their actions against the Republic. You are trying to roleplay a factionless vigilante. But ultimately the BH is a servant of the Empire too.

Fault on BioWare's part? Not exactly. The faction split means you have to help the Empire despite your suppose autonomy, which leads you to do lots of Imperial things e.g. eliminating pro-Republic Mandos, killing a prominent Jedi and Mando Killer etc. etc. If you accept the Republic are your enemy this makes these things easier.

However on second thoughts I don't think the Great Hunt is so bad. Its a competition revolving around collecting bounties, you don't have to kill said bounties and said bounties are generally legitimate. And when they are not they is often an option. Though if they gimped that they'd be gimping the DSiders and glory hunters i.e the majority.

And in all honesty, you can sugar coat the bounty hunting profession all you like, but ultimately you are a hired killer normally in the employ of either the Empire or the Underworld i.e. very unpleasant people. Your not RoboCop.

The Agent and Sith aren't really given any choice in their predicaments and even they are inexplicably given leeway in certain circumstances to be uncharacteristically merciful. Lord Baras orders his apprentice specifically to kill a Jedi Master and he or she can just say "Well, I delivered my message" and disobey a direct order without consequences, not even a stern talking to. Intelligence orders Cipher Nine to eliminate Mia Hawkins after she's no longer useful? You can let her go. Going undercover for the sole purpose of assassinating Arden Kothe? You can still let him go. Agents can even become actual traitors to the Empire in the end.

The difference is since Sith basically have little to no control over their destiny anyway, you can roleplay your character any number of ways. But the Bounty Hunter has no such in universe restrictions, meaning he or she is railroaded into always enjoying a professional murder contest. One that you have to steal somebody else's ship to even get into. If Secret Police and Evil Overlords can get their professions sugercoated, why not Bounty Hunters?

The Agent and Sith aren't really given any choice in their predicaments and even they are inexplicably given leeway in certain circumstances to be uncharacteristically merciful. Lord Baras orders his apprentice specifically to kill a Jedi Master and he or she can just say "Well, I delivered my message" and disobey a direct order without consequences, not even a stern talking to. Intelligence orders Cipher Nine to eliminate Mia Hawkins after she's no longer useful? You can let her go. Going undercover for the sole purpose of assassinating Arden Kothe? You can still let him go. Agents can even become actual traitors to the Empire in the end.

 

The difference is since Sith basically have little to no control over their destiny anyway, you can roleplay your character any number of ways. But the Bounty Hunter has no such in universe restrictions, meaning he or she is railroaded into always enjoying a professional murder contest. One that you have to steal somebody else's ship to even get into. If Secret Police and Evil Overlords can get their professions sugercoated, why not Bounty Hunters?

And you can spare as opposed to kill almost all your other targets as well.

In fact aside from the Jedi Master (who is an enemy of the Empire and killer of many Mandalorians) I'm pretty sure you don't have to kill anyone if you don't want to. However you are no more autonomous than any other faction, only the Empire, their Mandalorians allies and the Underworld are going to hire you, so some things you will be typically bad.

I totally agree with you on this. Though my wondering about this inconsistency with a light side character killing 100s of innocent people started with the Jedi Knight; the case with the JK may not be as bad as the Bounty Hunter as the end goal in the JK storyline is not money and personal glory. But still; traditionally, JKs don't kill unless that is the only option. And during the JK story you also get to choose to spare the life of NPCs. Yet for most quests you kill dozens of human beings without blinking.

And the issue exists for the SW as well; I don't want to post a spoiler, but generically speaking a light side SW spares the one NPC after the other and even promises one of his companions that they will be working for the light side. And at the same time he constantly helps fulfill the goals of the Sith.

 

How utterly lame and ridiculous this makes e.g. light side choices of sparing NPCs lifes aside, I guess it is simply impossible to make an Action MMO without having PCs kill.

 

Tbh, this is just one out of several things that have made me come to the conclusion that the Star Wars universe is - contrary to popular belief - NOT a suited universe for an MMO.

 

Just to mention a few other problems;

-the lightsabers becoming lightbats. Sure, we've gotten used to the fact that an officer wearing a black cotton uniform can withstand several hits with a lightsaber before he goes down, but you really have to suspend your disbelief for this not to totally take you out of the SW-universe.

-on the same note, the SW universe is filled with granades and laser weapon. In the game this translates into even people wearing cotton uniforms withstanding several direct hits with explosives, often without taking any visible notice of it - even though they are surround by explosions, fire and smoke.

-then there is the matter of 50% of the entire population in SWTOR being Jedi or Sith lords. SWG found a way around this. But then again; if one is going to play a SW game, you will want to be able to play as a Jedi or Sith - even if you're just a casual player.

 

These are just a few examples.

 

But when that is said, as I've stated before in the forum, generally speaking the narrative side of SWTOR is disappoiting and underwhelming. Which is why I am in no way sorry to see Daniel Erickson leave Bioware and SWTOR.

For the sake of game mechanics and presenting a challenge, it takes effort to kill people. Whoop-de-do, one hit shots make you feel powerful, but that's not challenging. As for the quests about killing innocents, this isn't supposed to be taken from a lore-standpoint. But a Jedi won't try to talk his way out in the middle of a fight when he was attacked. Aggro mobs are aggro'd for a reason, buddy

Alignment in this game isn't absolute. The Jedi get darkside points for doing things that Sith would choose and get lightside points for (literally - you get darkside points for romance as a Jedi Knight, while the Sith Warrior's 'I love you' choice when romancing Quinn is a lightside one). By your logic every single character on the imperial side should be dark side, because the Empire is evil. Except, so should every republic side character, because either way you leave literal mountains of corpses behind you.

The finale isn't even that bad - you aren't killing a ship full of civilians or anything, you're targetting a republic war asset full of republic military. I don't hear anyone saying the Scoundrel is literally hitler because they blow up an imperial star destroyer.

A lightside bounty hunter isn't 'purity sue', it's 'do my job honorably, and without excess pain caused'. Darkside is 'do whatever it takes, **** everyone, get it done as quick as possible'.

However you are no more autonomous than any other faction, only the Empire, their Mandalorians allies and the Underworld are going to hire you, so some things you will be typically bad.

Gameplay wise you're obviously hard coded into working for the Empire, but as far as the story is concerned? There's work for mercenaries and bounty hunters in Republic space. Heck, one of your qualifying bounties for the Great Hunt is a Republic one, and most of the stuff the Smuggler does is effectively on the same basis - I do this task, you pay me for it.

Gameplay wise you're obviously hard coded into working for the Empire, but as far as the story is concerned? There's work for mercenaries and bounty hunters in Republic space. Heck, one of your qualifying bounties for the Great Hunt is a Republic one, and most of the stuff the Smuggler does is effectively on the same basis - I do this task, you pay me for it.

Even more so, if you take the light side end of the Bounty Hunter story it's explicitly mentioned that you're open to hire for anyone, even the republic, if they can pay the right price. The dark side one is the one that makes you anathema in the Republic, forcing you to become an outlaw from all republic space forever.

Gameplay wise you're obviously hard coded into working for the Empire, but as far as the story is concerned? There's work for mercenaries and bounty hunters in Republic space. Heck, one of your qualifying bounties for the Great Hunt is a Republic one, and most of the stuff the Smuggler does is effectively on the same basis - I do this task, you pay me for it.

Few bounty hunters ply their trade in the Republic. Thanks to stringent bounty laws that vary from planet to planet, obligated repayment of collateral damage, and strong limitations on the use of force, only the largest Republic bounties are worth the risk. The few bounty hunters who manage to operate within these strict parameters are derided by their peers as glorified bail bondsmen.

During the Great War, the Republic treated bounty hunters poorly. Low-paying, high-risk bounties, pressure from the Senate to ban bounty hunter guilds altogether, and stiff taxation on collected bounties lead most bounty hunters to the same conclusion: don't work for the Republic. Today, most mercenaries follow this sage advice.

Bounty hunting is more than just running errands and smuggling supplies, it's taking justice into your own hands, it's killing for money. You can imagine how the Republic would frown upon that. And I don't recall taken bounties from them.

Even more so, if you take the light side end of the Bounty Hunter story it's explicitly mentioned that you're open to hire for anyone, even the republic, if they can pay the right price. The dark side one is the one that makes you anathema in the Republic, forcing you to become an outlaw from all republic space forever.

He killed two Jedi Masters, one of them was the Order's Battlemaster, he ain't welcome in the Republic.

Bounty hunting is more than just running errands and smuggling supplies, it's taking justice into your own hands, it's killing for money. You can imagine how the Republic would frown upon that. And I don't recall taken bounties from them.

The first bounty you take (on Balmorra) is a republic one to kill an imperial moff or admiral or whatever.

Because if the Republic learned about what the BH did. They totally wouldn't arrest him.

 

He killed two Jedi Masters, one of them was the Order's Battlemaster, he ain't welcome in the Republic.

Well, that depends on a lot. The Imperial agent did a lot more than kill two jedi Masters, and is offered a chance to defect to the Republic. The Sith Warrior when played light sided kills about 5 Jedi masters but is offered a chance to redeem themselves and join the Jedi.

Neither is conditioned with 'yeah but serve a jail sentence first'.

Defectors are a thing that in lore both sides ignore 'previous crimes' inorder to encourage.

The first bounty you take (on Balmorra) is a republic one to kill an imperial moff or admiral or whatever.

A special circumstance indeed.

Well, that depends on a lot. The Imperial agent did a lot more than kill two jedi Masters, and is offered a chance to defect to the Republic. The Sith Warrior when played light sided kills about 5 Jedi masters but is offered a chance to redeem themselves and join the Jedi.

 

Neither is conditioned with 'yeah but serve a jail sentence first'.

 

Defectors are a thing that in lore both sides ignore 'previous crimes' inorder to encourage.

Not that there is much to be gained there anyway, as the above quote shows.

Bounty hunting is more than just running errands and smuggling supplies, it's taking justice into your own hands, it's killing for money. You can imagine how the Republic would frown upon that. And I don't recall taken bounties from them.

That's fine and all, but if you're playing a BH as someone who very much prefers not to kill and to bring their targets back alive like multiple people in this thread have expresed as like the story very much lets you, you have options other than the Empire and the hutts. I don't begrudge the class story pushing you towards playing a character that's kind of a jerk, but if it's going to give alternative ways of playing I'd like those ways to make some degree of sense. I had similar problems with none of the characters in either of the Jedi stories batting an eyelid if you play them full on dark side, for instance.

With regards to the last part, the bounty to return Altaca to Alderaan was placed by his Republic family. I believe it's the first one you complete on Dromund Kaas.

Because if the Republic learned about what the BH did. They totally wouldn't arrest him.

 

He killed two Jedi Masters, one of them was the Order's Battlemaster, he ain't welcome in the Republic.

But at the same time, the BH could start creating a mess within the Imperial ranks as well, and then neither faction likes him.

My BH isn't exactly a big fan of the Empire (he made a few friends, sure [most of them now dead]), but if the Empire dissolved, he wouldn't care one way or the other.

Also my BH would have turned away (if not executed) his companions, with the possible exception of Mako (as [iMO] she's the only one who plausibly forces her way into his posse). It's also how I RP that, but that's a separate topic...

Because if the Republic learned about what the BH did. They totally wouldn't arrest him.

 

He killed two Jedi Masters, one of them was the Order's Battlemaster, he ain't welcome in the Republic.

If you make the final lightside choice, the Republic offers the BH a full pardon for all of their actions.

I play my bounty hunter light-sided, and I don't see any major problems. Think about it: Bounty Hunters are people who make a living by killing other people. No matter what way you look at it, someone who takes that kind of job in the first place can't truly call themselves "good". Really, the best you can be is what TV Tropes calls a Punch Clock Villain. Or a Hitman with a Heart. Thinking about it that way, I think it works

Except that they don't necessarily. Very few times are you REQUIRED to kill the target, and even then you can choose not to. Bounty hunters exist in real life, are they evil? Nowadays it's "alive" only, very very very rarely is dead an option in real life, but still. Just because Boba Fett was a sociopath using the profession as an excuse for legal murder doesn't mean all bounty hunters are that way IRL or in Star Wars.

I don't recall are you able to "capture" the jedi masters? It's been so long since I played my rattakki mercenary (though I am doing another one, male cathar powertech)

EDIT: Another fictional example (but closer to real life than Star Wars) is Gunsmith Cats. It's about a Chicago bounty hunter. Has she killed people? Yes. However, killing is not what she goes out to do. She tries to bring them in alive, it's only the "big bad" that is trying to kill her that she ends up having no choice to kill or be killed. But, even then she tries to find a way to bring them in alive, because she's not a killer by nature.

Except that they don't necessarily. Very few times are you REQUIRED to kill the target, and even then you can choose not to. Bounty hunters exist in real life, are they evil? Nowadays it's "alive" only, very very very rarely is dead an option in real life, but still. Just because Boba Fett was a sociopath using the profession as an excuse for legal murder doesn't mean all bounty hunters are that way IRL or in Star Wars.

 

I don't recall are you able to "capture" the jedi masters? It's been so long since I played my rattakki mercenary (though I am doing another one, male cathar powertech)

 

Kellian Jarro, the first master, is killed during your fight with him. His apprentice can be spared however. Jun Seros, the second master, is mortally wounded during your fight with him. He either says his last words and then dies of his wounds or you can gun him down as soon as he starts talking.