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Missing Hutta NPCs | Explain Yourself Developers


ThePlayerUnknown

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So I was working my way through a completionist run and noticed there are two missing NPC quest givers on Hutta.

 

- Gedron Hix, for "[HEROIC 2+] Factory Recall"

 

- Geric, for "[HEROIC 2+] The Man with the Steel Voice"

 

Please explain why they were removed.

 

I would like to see a return of these two, as I found them adding to the story and immersion.

 

If I am mistaken and they have simply been relocated, I would like information on their new whereabouts.

 

Thank You

 

Edit: Text Color in Violation of Forum Guidelines apparently.

Edited by ThePlayerUnknown
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So I was working my way through a completionist run and noticed there are two missing NPC quest givers on Hutta.

 

- Gedron Hix, for "[HEROIC 2+] Factory Recall"

 

- Geric, for "[HEROIC 2+] The Man with the Steel Voice"

 

Please explain why they were removed.

 

I would like to see a return of these two, as I found them adding to the story and immersion.

 

If I am mistaken and they have simply been relocated, I would like information on their new whereabouts.

 

Thank You

 

are you sure they are gone, and not just moved? They've a habit of moving NPC's unexpectedly

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Yes, they have been removed and they are not the only ones. For example on Ord Mantell the female soldier that grants you one of the Heroics for Savrip Island is also nowhere to be found.

 

We did not get a definitive answer from the devs, but since the removal coincided with the change of the Heroics system 5 years ago to turn them into daily quests as part of the new activity finder except the ones on the starter planets, my best guess would be that having them around would have caused an issue with the completion of these particular Heroics and instead of remaking it they decided to simply remove them physically from the game.

Edited by Phazonfreak
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It was not 5 years ago. It was definitely less than that, maybe 2 years ago.

No. It was when 4.0 released. Well, OK, yes it was less than five years ago, because four and a half is, indeed, less than five. (October 2015... How time flies when you're having fun.)

 

Here's my first post on the subject, on 21 October 2015, just after 4.0 launched:

There have always been a few missions in the base game (1-50/Prologue-Chap3) that would do this, and yes, it's annoying.

 

And I'd like them to put back the original modes - I miss talking to Travi Pott and Gizmel Gam on Ord Mantell.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=843954

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Tergon here shows that's the type of mindset that got those NPCs removed.

Bioware, this is an MMO. Immersion is vital to an MMO.

 

Again, you are attacking people because they don't view the game as you do. Immersion is NOT vital to an MMO, it's a part of it for SOME people, not everyone. Which is great, different views make for an interesting planet. The reason I use the fleet transport, is becaue it does nothing for my immersion, to leave fleet, travel to hutta, go around, just to pick up the missions. I'd rather spend the time, actually doing the mission. Not everyone has the time to spend on that. You play your game, your way, I play mine. But don't attack people, or blame them because they don't follow your way

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All removed content should be restored, even if like these NPCs, their function is made optional.

 

I agree, there's been a few threads on this, it'll do no harm to have them there. It's another feature that isn't necessary for everyone, but will be used by some, and having it there is always an nice extra bonus.

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I agree, there's been a few threads on this, it'll do no harm to have them there. It's another feature that isn't necessary for everyone, but will be used by some, and having it there is always an nice extra bonus.

In the name of the Force, edit your damn posts if you have more to say. Don't double post 3 minutes later because you want to respond to someone else in the thread. Just edit your post and add their quote to it.

 

Again, you are attacking people because they don't view the game as you do. Immersion is NOT vital to an MMO, it's a part of it for SOME people, not everyone. Which is great, different views make for an interesting planet. The reason I use the fleet transport, is becaue it does nothing for my immersion, to leave fleet, travel to hutta, go around, just to pick up the missions. I'd rather spend the time, actually doing the mission. Not everyone has the time to spend on that. You play your game, your way, I play mine. But don't attack people, or blame them because they don't follow your way

You made yourself an example, and I highlighted it. This isn't a personal attack, this is using you as an example of the mindset of that type of player. Not my fault you volunteered, and not my fault if you take it personally.

Edited by Tofu_Shark
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You made yourself an example, and I highlighted it. This isn't a personal attack, this is using you as an example of the mindset of that type of player. Not my fault you volunteered, and not my fault if you take it personally.

 

And what kind of a mindset do you demonstrate by using me as an example to claim with absolute certainty that the change happened more recently for no reason and SteveTheCynic proving you wrong and you not even acknowledging your mistake? Just curious...

Edited by Phazonfreak
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In the name of the Force, edit your damn posts if you have more to say. Don't double post 3 minutes later because you want to respond to someone else in the thread. Just edit your post and add their quote to it.

 

I'll post all I damn well want to, you're not the forum police. And if I want them seperated, so that the post isn't too long, I'll do that to, don't like it, put me on ignore , I really don't care.

 

And yes, it is YOUR fault, you made it personal. You took what I said out of context to suit your propaganda.

As I said, when on FLEET I use it, but when on planet, I used to use the givers. And for someone so outraged that his immersion is broken by them not being there, where was your outrage 5 years ago when they were first removed, or your outrage since then???

Edited by DarkTergon
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And what kind of a mindset do you demonstrate by using me as an example to claim with absolute certainty that the change happened more recently for no reason and SteveTheCynic proving you wrong and you not even acknowledging your mistake? Just curious...

So I made an inaccurate recollection, big deal. That doesn't change that the playstyle exemplified by you and Tergon shared by a lot of others most likely got that content removed in the first place.

 

I'll post all I damn well want to, you're not the forum police. And if I want them seperated, so that the post isn't too long, I'll do that to, don't like it, put me on ignore , I really don't care.

 

And yes, it is YOUR fault, you made it personal. You took what I said out of context to suit your propaganda.

As I said, when on FLEET I use it, but when on planet, I used to use the givers. And for someone so outraged that his immersion is broken by them not being there, where was your outrage 5 years ago when they were first removed, or your outrage since then???

I can't take someone seriously that double-posts like that. They obviously don't know how internet forums work. Even though we actually agree on something, you're still on the offensive. I'm not going to put you on ignore, because that's exactly what you'd want. Go to hell.

 

My outrage about this removed content was displayed when I found out about it years ago.

Edited by Tofu_Shark
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I can't take someone seriously that double-posts like that. They obviously don't know how internet forums work. Even though we actually agree on something, you're still on the offensive. I'm not going to put you on ignore, because that's exactly what you'd want. Go to hell..

 

 

How internet forums work? Are you 12? Seriously. I don't care, I don't want anything from you, the fact you feel like I do, shows us everything we need to know about you.

 

I'll edit this, just for you. Are you ready? There are plenty of people in here who don't take you serious, for many reasons, all we have to do is peruse your posts. I don't think I've been ignored by as many people as you, or had as much negativity as you. Don't get me wrong, I've disagreed with people in the past, only ever had to put two people on ignore, but that was to save my sanity. I've had issues with mods, so I can't really say what I mean, but you have a chip on your shoulder, it has shown in many posts. You need to look at that.

Edited by DarkTergon
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The very same update that removed those NPCs was the same update that put the heroic missions terminal on the fleet. So, player mindset couldn't have anything to do with those NPCs being removed. Now, if the terminals had been added to the fleet and everyone stopped using the NPCs to get the missions so BW decided, "well, no one uses them so no one will miss them," you might have an argument. But since it didn't happen that way...
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The very same update that removed those NPCs was the same update that put the heroic missions terminal on the fleet. So, player mindset couldn't have anything to do with those NPCs being removed. Now, if the terminals had been added to the fleet and everyone stopped using the NPCs to get the missions so BW decided, "well, no one uses them so no one will miss them," you might have an argument. But since it didn't happen that way...

Witness testimony is highly unreliable. One of us is wrong, or both of us are wrong. I'm going to examine the patch notes regarding this, and if it turns out what you say is true, that doesn't explain the "what they don't notice won't hurt them" policy when it comes to content removal.

 

Alright, so far I've found the Bonus Series NPCs were removed in update 4.1: Anarchy in Paradise:

  • Removed the Nar Shaddaa Bonus Series Mission NPCs from the Fleets. The Mission chain can now be accepted directly from Colonel Harok (Imperial) or Deera Ulyette (Republic) on Nar Shaddaa upon reaching level 60.
     
     
  • Removed the Hoth Bonus Series Mission Terminals found on Voss. The Mission chain can now be accepted directly from Captain Graich (Imperial) or General Ilic Nadab (Republic) on Hoth once they reach level 60.
     
     
  • Removed the Alderaan Bonus Series NPCs from the Fleets. The Mission chain can now be accepted directly from Lord Serjay Thul (Imperial) or Major Brom (Republic) on Alderaan upon reaching level 60

 

I have gone through every patch notes from KotFE to Onslaught. The only thing I found is in 4.0: Knights of the Fallen Empire Early Access:

 

Heroic Missions

Nearly all Heroic Missions have been adjusted to be completed by groups of 2+. This means that most former [Heroic 4] missions have had their difficulties reduced. Barring a few exceptions, Heroic Missions no longer need to be turned in at an NPC or Mission Dropbox. On completion of the final step of a Heroic Mission, the completion dialog will appear immediately.

 

...

 

While Heroic Missions may still be acquired from NPCs in the field, you will also find a new Weekly Heroic Mission Terminal just outside of the spaceports of all planets up through Makeb. Accessing this terminal will allow you to easily acquire all the Heroic Missions for that planet. In addition, both the Republic and Imperial Fleets have a Weekly Heroic Mission Terminal that offers Heroic Missions for all planets.

 

...

This is almost certainly when the heroic misison turn-in conversations were removed, but they never outright say they were removed. There is nothing that mentions the removal of the heroic mission NPCs mentioned in this thread. It is either undocumented or that is one hell of a bug.

Edited by Tofu_Shark
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So I made an inaccurate recollection, big deal. That doesn't change that the playstyle exemplified by you and Tergon shared by a lot of others most likely got that content removed in the first place.

 

That is exactly my point. You are the one making it a big deal by coming on strong blaming certain player types for the removal while you don't have your facts straight. I am also baffled by your strategy to lump me together with the players who don't care about it when I was the first one confirming it in the thread discussion. I knew about it right when it happened back in 2015, but it was not such a big deal for me to harass the devs about it. I wouldn't mind having them back though.

 

I think your frustration is misplaced here. You seem to be entirely convinced that the removal of the npcs happened out of malice or carelessness, but all the evidence points to a mechanical reason. They did not remove all the npcs, but only very specific ones. We all know that the engine is very error-prone and it is entirely possible that when they changed the Heroics and max level progression with 4.0 and implemented the Activity Finder, level scaling and the Heroics terminal on the fleet, they stumbled upon bugs with the npcs and to clear it up they decided to remove them instead of working around them.

Edited by Phazonfreak
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Something like that should be documented, not hidden. If it's not documented, there's no reason to believe it was due to a bug. It's not out of malice or carelessness. Look at all the other content that's been removed over time for no good reason. Look at some of the other changes that were made due to a particular group's playstyle (particularly PvPers). Edited by Tofu_Shark
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This is almost certainly when the heroic misison turn-in conversations were removed, but they never outright say they were removed. There is nothing that mentions the removal of the heroic mission NPCs mentioned in this thread. It is either undocumented or that is one hell of a bug.

:facepalm: There's no "almost certainly" about it.(1) They removed the "return to giver" thing in 4.0, along with some-but-not-all of the givers themselves. They also removed the Bonus Series breadcrumbs.

 

(1) No, I don't need to provide [citation] for that, and even if I did, it's not going to happen. I was *there*, and it's really hard to say which braincell contains that information.

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Something like that should be documented, not hidden. If it's not documented, there's no reason to believe it was due to a bug. It's not out of malice or carelessness. Look at all the other content that's been removed over time for no good reason. Look at some of the other changes that were made due to a particular group's playstyle (particularly PvPers).

 

If there is one point I agree with you it is that they should have documented why they removed certain Heroic npcs just to make it clear to us and avoid speculation. But your claim that they did it only to suit a specific player type still does not make a lot of sense. If that was the case they would have removed all the Heroic npcs and not just seemingly random ones. You have planets, like Hutta or Ord Mantell, where you can still find some of the quest givers while others have vanished into thin air.

 

Hutta is probably the best indication that it has more to do with an engine hickup that they solved with a sledgehammer rather than suiting specific player types. If you go to the terminal at the spaceport you will see all 4 Heroics listed. If you try to pick up "Hostage Situation Cleanup" you'll get an error message and it disappears from the list, because it is a follow-up Heroic that only becomes availabe after you finished "Hostage Situation" and talked to Foreman Rahmm. However, this is not the case when you pick up the Heroics from the terminal on the fleet and everything works fine. This tells me that the way they implemented the new system with pick-ups from terminals on the fleet, at the spaceports and through the Activity Finder caused problems with the way Heroics are handled in terms of npcs as quest givers and receivers.

Edited by Phazonfreak
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OK, ok ok ok, despite the completely ridiculous back and fourth here over misconceived forum etiquette, guesses into how former clumsy devs reworked content through the super clumsy engine, and who remembers tiny details of patch notes better years later, content should not be removed but made optional. Edited by Monumenta
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And what exactly is ridiculous about guesses into why they were partly removed when we don't get an answer by the devs? Especially since this is the entire point of the thread if you look at the title and the original post. Edited by Phazonfreak
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You obviously just want to argue with anyone for any reason.

 

And what exactly is ridiculous about guesses into why they were partly removed when we don't get an answer by the devs? Especially since this is the entire point of the thread if you look at the title and the original post.

 

Everything, my opinion stands.

 

Please return removed content.

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the one regarding the droid on ord mantell with gizmell he is still there but travi the female soldier is gone kinda sucks alot that they remove content to ''streamline''

the ones for bonus series yeah they should have never done that period.

but i got my own problems with the game atm with regards to the gearing system but thats another story lol

 

 

so yeah in short : return the NPC's that give story related quest or heriocs.

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You obviously just want to argue with anyone for any reason.

 

Well, I personally find that much more productive than giving out blanket statements.

 

Everything, my opinion stands.

 

Please return removed content.

 

Btw, I read your post before you conveniently edited it after you realized that you missed the entire discussion about the supposed reasons as to why the devs removed them.

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