Hey folks,

 

Below you will find the upcoming changes for Madness and Balance coming in Game Update 5.3:

 

 

 

-eric

What kind of balance were u talking about when a Sorc DPS in madness can pull 9.6k on a 2.5mills dummy [http://parsely.io/parser/view/298755/0] ... isn't Sniper in Virulence has do be in Ranged Quasi-Sustained Damage Dealer (down to -2.5% of target DPS) group but it does 9.8k no problem and I am sure it can still pull 10k. Operatives are doing 11k. Engineering Sniper should be on the same level as Madness but it does 10k.

Please buff sorcs more so it can pull 10k or nerf other classes even more. We don't have time to balance is as slow as u do... the game is losing a lot of players since 5.0

What kind of balance were u talking about when a Sorc DPS in madness can pull 9.6k on a 2.5mills dummy [http://parsely.io/parser/view/298755/0] ... isn't Sniper in Virulence has do be in Ranged Quasi-Sustained Damage Dealer (down to -2.5% of target DPS) group but it does 9.8k no problem and I am sure it can still pull 10k. Operatives are doing 11k. Engineering Sniper should be on the same level as Madness but it does 10k.

 

Please buff sorcs more so it can pull 10k or nerf other classes even more. We don't have time to balance is as slow as u do... the game is losing a lot of players since 5.0

There's more that just dummy parsing to consider.

First, I dont think their target dps is 10k, I think its 9.7kish. 10k is the value they used as an exemple because multiple of 100 are easier when talking about % to calculate (5% = 500. easy)

2nd, while you can imagine a rough average with those value (ranged burst = -5% melee sustained = +5% etc) on a dummy, to be truly balanced you have to account at how much of that dps can reliably be applied in an operation amidst target switch, movement, and required mobility.

The burst/sustained melee/range split is already factoring that part in, but even amongs say, the burst rdps, arsenal and lightning are noticeably more able to keep the dps in than MM while moving, for exemple.

Among the ranged sustain, Engineering has position and immobility requirement on the boss (meaning if the boss moves its a dps loss) and while you can work around it in some fight by foreknowledge, experience and good class mastery, its just not going to work out for others, no matter how crafty and ressourceful you are.

In a perfectly balanced world, you'd have some "ranged sustain" closer to melee sustain, and the lower melee sustain might actually be rightfully so be at par with the highest ranged sustained, or even slightly under.

And I'm calling bs on "quasi-sustained". thats one strange term for something that do not exist.

Virulence is as sustained as can be with 2 dots to place on target, + 1 effect before getting it on with the damage, which remains very constant then. Engineering is sustained with positionnal requirement, but superior aoe to compensate.

Madness in comparison is fairly mobile, doesnt require "target preparation" just simply does a lot of dot damage that requires a decent window of time not to lose dps/gcd. So its sustained, but its mobile, and not as restricted as Virulence, IO or Engineering.

Therefore, it should rightfully be the lowest ranged sustained, and the closest to Ranged burst higher performer, which is MM. Meanwhile we'll see where they put melee burst, but typically Madness shouldnt be too far from Carnage and Deception, with Concealment probably slightly above the 3.

Similarly among the melee sustained, you might see Annihilation being higher than Lethality, due to its higher ramp up. I will abstain from commenting on pyro, since IO and Pyro are the specs I've played the less, and never in any competitive sense, but I do have a good idea of their performance from friends over the year who uses them.

Hatred, should probably be around lethality's dps.

Then remain to be seen when/if they do utilty changes, which will be the real "pvp balancing".

There's more that just dummy parsing to consider.

 

First, I dont think their target dps is 10k, I think its 9.7kish. 10k is the value they used as an exemple because multiple of 100 are easier when talking about % to calculate (5% = 500. easy)

 

2nd, while you can imagine a rough average with those value (ranged burst = -5% melee sustained = +5% etc) on a dummy, to be truly balanced you have to account at how much of that dps can reliably be applied in an operation amidst target switch, movement, and required mobility.

 

The burst/sustained melee/range split is already factoring that part in, but even amongs say, the burst rdps, arsenal and lightning are noticeably more able to keep the dps in than MM while moving, for exemple.

 

Among the ranged sustain, Engineering has position and immobility requirement on the boss (meaning if the boss moves its a dps loss) and while you can work around it in some fight by foreknowledge, experience and good class mastery, its just not going to work out for others, no matter how crafty and ressourceful you are.

 

In a perfectly balanced world, you'd have some "ranged sustain" closer to melee sustain, and the lower melee sustain might actually be rightfully so be at par with the highest ranged sustained, or even slightly under.

 

And I'm calling bs on "quasi-sustained". thats one strange term for something that do not exist.

 

Virulence is as sustained as can be with 2 dots to place on target, + 1 effect before getting it on with the damage, which remains very constant then. Engineering is sustained with positionnal requirement, but superior aoe to compensate.

 

Madness in comparison is fairly mobile, doesnt require "target preparation" just simply does a lot of dot damage that requires a decent window of time not to lose dps/gcd. So its sustained, but its mobile, and not as restricted as Virulence, IO or Engineering.

 

Therefore, it should rightfully be the lowest ranged sustained, and the closest to Ranged burst higher performer, which is MM. Meanwhile we'll see where they put melee burst, but typically Madness shouldnt be too far from Carnage and Deception, with Concealment probably slightly above the 3.

 

Similarly among the melee sustained, you might see Annihilation being higher than Lethality, due to its higher ramp up. I will abstain from commenting on pyro, since IO and Pyro are the specs I've played the less, and never in any competitive sense, but I do have a good idea of their performance from friends over the year who uses them.

 

Hatred, should probably be around lethality's dps.

 

Then remain to be seen when/if they do utilty changes, which will be the real "pvp balancing".

Yes. Carnage should be nerfed to the point when its dps is only around 9.8k. Annihilation should be doing around 10,1k. Deception should be nerfed to 9.7k. Lightning (without the bug) can pull 9.7. I would love to see how madness can pull at least 9.7 because engi snipers and IO mercs can pull 9.8k so madness need a 100-150dps buff.

I hope its gonna take Bioware less than a month to balance all classes otherwise the summer will end and people leave by the end of august. Right now DPS numbers are all over the place...

What kind of balance were u talking about when a Sorc DPS in madness can pull 9.6k on a 2.5mills dummy [http://parsely.io/parser/view/298755/0] ... isn't Sniper in Virulence has do be in Ranged Quasi-Sustained Damage Dealer (down to -2.5% of target DPS) group but it does 9.8k no problem and I am sure it can still pull 10k. Operatives are doing 11k. Engineering Sniper should be on the same level as Madness but it does 10k.

 

Please buff sorcs more so it can pull 10k or nerf other classes even more. We don't have time to balance is as slow as u do... the game is losing a lot of players since 5.0

what you want to look at htough is this, if you insist on using parsely data:

http://parsely.io/parser/stats

Balance / Madness

500k dummy: max 10274.83 average 9265.25

1.5 mil dummy: max 9689.53 average 8806.91

2.5 mil dummy: max 9640.16 average 9000.77

4 mil dummy: max 9184.42 average 8734.02

as u can see the difference between max possible and average is pretty big, though mind you, the statistics is build on the available data aka submitted parses, so it's not exactly 100% accurate.

from the subjective data posted there it looks like lethality & watchman are the only two specs over 11k.... so something tells me it won't stay that way for very long. but yeah, at this point i'd rather see some extra buffs for the specs in the lower half to get them up a bit x.x

what you want to look at htough is this, if you insist on using parsely data:

http://parsely.io/parser/stats

Balance / Madness

500k dummy: max 10274.83 average 9265.25

1.5 mil dummy: max 9689.53 average 8806.91

2.5 mil dummy: max 9640.16 average 9000.77

4 mil dummy: max 9184.42 average 8734.02

as u can see the difference between max possible and average is pretty big, though mind you, the statistics is build on the available data aka submitted parses, so it's not exactly 100% accurate.

 

from the subjective data posted there it looks like lethality & watchman are the only two specs over 11k.... so something tells me it won't stay that way for very long. but yeah, at this point i'd rather see some extra buffs for the specs in the lower half to get them up a bit x.x

Yeap. They should buff Madness even more because its dps is underperforming

Yeap. They should buff Madness even more because its dps is underperforming

again, really depends on what you compare it to and what that comparison is based on lol. for example, the I.O. data so far. it received a nerf this time, and yet:

Assault Specialist / Innovative Ordnance:

500k dummy: max 10689.16 average 9404.62

1.5 mil dummy: max 9988.25 average 9124.85

2.5 mil dummy: max 9946.54 average 9477.75

4 mil dummy: max 9679.25 average 9679.25

also a ranged DoT spec (aka sustained), but unlike madness its' heat management is still very tight.

I suppose BioWare logic is that you can't both have easy heat / force management AND do good DPS lol (again i'm just guessing).

So the most complained about thing about madness was the force negativity. they chose to fix that over the deathmark stacks and the fact that their actual dps buff was pretty much a joke. Still, if you look only at the AVERAGE numbers, the difference between I.O. & madness is probably around in the 400-500 DPS bracket.

of course that's only based on submitted dummy parses. we all know that it's very rare to be able to do the same dps on dummy and on boss, plus it's not like every player of this spec actually bothers to upload their parse, or even knows what the heck parsely even is lol :D

P.S.: i would honestly prefer if the force was toned down a little and hte dps raised at least some 200-300 so it's actually not hard to keep ur force up and yet feel that yes BioWare actually gave us a buff. because +1% to DPS IS A JOKE!!!

http://parsely.io/parser/view/298755/0. We, Madness Sorcs, can only do 9,6k if lucky enough

Look at a sniper's parse in virulence http://parsely.io/parser/view/300031/0 both specs do 10k.

http://parsely.io/parser/view/299424/0 even IO mercs can do 10k.

Why Sorcerer Madness does only around 9,4k/ IO merc does 9,8/ Snipers do 10k

P.S. My parse http://parsely.io/parser/view/300214/0

Madness Sorcerer is still underperforming after 5.3 buff

http://parsely.io/parser/view/298755/0. We, Madness Sorcs, can only do 9,6k if lucky enough

Look at a sniper's parse in virulence http://parsely.io/parser/view/300031/0 both specs do 10k.

http://parsely.io/parser/view/299424/0 even IO mercs can do 10k.

Why Sorcerer Madness does only around 9,4k/ IO merc does 9,8/ Snipers do 10k

 

P.S. My parse http://parsely.io/parser/view/300214/0

 

Madness Sorcerer is still underperforming after 5.3 buff

well.... u know.... i'm not sure lucky crit is what they base their class balance on. however both I.O. and viru still have issues with resource, while balance does not. so i suppose that's PART of the reason. but! more likely they might just not know how to buff it without making it too strong for PvP... or they might also have something in mind for utilities in august............. or actually i have no clue lol. but yes, i want at least 200-300dps buff lol:D:D this one was non-existent.... and fix them deathmark stacks finally lol

well.... u know.... i'm not sure lucky crit is what they base their class balance on. however both I.O. and viru still have issues with resource, while balance does not. so i suppose that's PART of the reason. but! more likely they might just not know how to buff it without making it too strong for PvP... or they might also have something in mind for utilities in august............. or actually i have no clue lol. but yes, i want at least 200-300dps buff lol:D:D this one was non-existent.... and fix them deathmark stacks finally lol

Yeap. We need bioware to fix deathmark issue and give us another small buff.

We can't take this *** no more. Madness deserves a small buff. We have to fight for it. Please don't stop posting ur feedback on forums. We, Sorcerers, need all support we can get lol

Yeap. We need bioware to fix deathmark issue and give us another small buff.

 

We can't take this *** no more. Madness deserves a small buff. We have to fight for it. Please don't stop posting ur feedback on forums. We, Sorcerers, need all support we can get lol

thing is, this feedback needs to be based on proof. not just statements of:

-buff us more or we quit

-we deserve more buff

-this sucks, fix it

and etc lol.

that only sounds like whining and tends to be ignored.:D

thing is, this feedback needs to be based on proof. not just statements of:

-buff us more or we quit

-we deserve more buff

-this sucks, fix it

and etc lol.

that only sounds like whining and tends to be ignored.:D

The only thing they are scared of is to lose people. It's buisnes and any kind of feedback counts) just look at those parse numbers. Snipers do 500 more dps than sorcs eventhough Madness and Engi have to be in the same dps category.

P.s. u know if people did't unsub after 5.0, bosses would have dropped cxp packs only(no loot).

It's not fun to play anymore after how bioware treats sorcs! Viru Sniper dps has to be below Madness sorc according to ur *How Balance Happens* post? Look at Madness now? Still one of the worst dps in the game. Even lightning is better than madness and it's rDPS Burst class! Give us a buff before 5.4 people can't wait no more!

much this. we do NOT want to be the next FOTM class, but really. if u say that viru is target dps -2.5% then.... shouldn't madness, i.o. engi, deception, rage, concealment, carnage & A.P. ALL do 2.5% more than viru? 0.o i don't mean that we want u to nerf more classes, but do bring engi & madness up to I.O. lvl lol:D:D

much this. we do NOT want to be the next FOTM class, but really. if u say that viru is target dps -2.5% then.... shouldn't madness, i.o. engi, deception, rage, concealment, carnage & A.P. ALL do 2.5% more than viru? 0.o i don't mean that we want u to nerf more classes, but do bring engi & madness up to I.O. lvl lol:D:D

Exactly) Please Bioware read the feedback of people who at least know what starparse is! Eric Keith Bioware! We still believe in u

Hello again.

First of all, good job with fixing the force negativity of the madness rotation!

But now please buff the madness damage output a bit more.

Because fixing a - due to resource problems - unplayable rotation shouldn't be considered a buff, but a fix. And the damage buffs that came with it are laughable.

they clearly need to do something about utilities, so much useless and weak, around force barrier which is now as strong as shield probe...it's outdated.

the only few good utilities are all in same tier (heroic).

i really really hope it will be for 5.5 because the spec (and class) is quite weak because of the lack of good utilities.