ok I have one: I am on my guardian tank. I que for HM lvl 55 HM. que pops, we get cz meltdown. Everyone says their "hellos" and I am thinking its a friendly group. Everything is fine, till we get to the Sand Dune Claw boss. Almost every time I do this boss I am the first to get to the generator nodes, idk how I do but I do. The dps are needlessly still pummling on the boss without moving to node. I taunt, the boss finally comes over to the node, with some difficulty because the dps are still putting out full dps on the boss during the drag to node. The healer is having a rough time because of this. we wipe. Second round. Same thing, except one of the dps says "taunt" before I even get to the node. I politely explain that if I taunt before I get to the node the beast will jump to me and immediately do the smash attack, which we dont want, and for the dps to use threat drops. The dps that said "taunt' says "WHAT? I have never heard of that...." I realize this isnt going to work out, so I exit the instance.

ok I have one: I am on my guardian tank. I que for HM lvl 55 HM. que pops, we get cz meltdown. Everyone says their "hellos" and I am thinking its a friendly group. Everything is fine, till we get to the Sand Dune Claw boss. Almost every time I do this boss I am the first to get to the generator nodes, idk how I do but I do. The dps are needlessly still pummling on the boss without moving to node. I taunt, the boss finally comes over to the node, with some difficulty because the dps are still putting out full dps on the boss during the drag to node. The healer is having a rough time because of this. we wipe. Second round. Same thing, except one of the dps says "taunt" before I even get to the node. I politely explain that if I taunt before I get to the node the beast will jump to me and immediately do the smash attack, which we dont want, and for the dps to use threat drops. The dps that said "taunt' says "WHAT? I have never heard of that...." I realize this isnt going to work out, so I exit the instance.

 

Sounds like your problem is that you need to learn how to hold threat on the boss. The boss will only leap to and stun you if you get out of his melee range while running to the generator.

ok I have one: I am on my guardian tank. I que for HM lvl 55 HM. que pops, we get cz meltdown. Everyone says their "hellos" and I am thinking its a friendly group. Everything is fine, till we get to the Sand Dune Claw boss. Almost every time I do this boss I am the first to get to the generator nodes, idk how I do but I do. The dps are needlessly still pummling on the boss without moving to node. I taunt, the boss finally comes over to the node, with some difficulty because the dps are still putting out full dps on the boss during the drag to node. The healer is having a rough time because of this. we wipe. Second round. Same thing, except one of the dps says "taunt" before I even get to the node. I politely explain that if I taunt before I get to the node the beast will jump to me and immediately do the smash attack, which we dont want, and for the dps to use threat drops. The dps that said "taunt' says "WHAT? I have never heard of that...." I realize this isnt going to work out, so I exit the instance.

Sorry to say, but the weirdest one in that run was you.

1. As a tank, you should be able to hold aggro all the time. If the DPS is geared higher than you, they may grab aggro in the beginning, but a well-placed taunt will fix that. Also remember to use guard when grouped with high-geared DPS.

2. I'm not sure about guardian, but a shadow tank has ample time to use force speed, get stunned by the boss's leap attack, and still get to the generator several GCDs before the boss rampages. And as the above poster said, the boss will only leap if you get too far from him.

 

The DPS could perhaps have played that a bit better, but if they haven't played a tank and especially if they are ranged, chances are they haven't developed the reflexes to look up the green generator and move to it.

There seems to be afew people on this thread making the same mistake, let me clarify.

 

You seem to assume the mara is just another player, it isn't. A mara is a deity having time off, hence why they have 2 lightsabers. The mechanics of the game and trinity group do not apply to maras, for they are above the standard of mere mortals.

 

Hope that clarifies the issue.

 

Oh, Bloody Hell, you have made me laugh with this.

 

I swear, this thread gave me second thoughts when I swapped main from a Deception Assassin to Carnage Marauder. I still to this day worry that the other three in a PUG say to themselves, 's**t, a MArauder.' But I take it as a challenge to play well and overcome that potential first opinion. Sadly ... I have caught myself when accepting the queue pop thinking, 's**t, a marauder!!' Usually after catching up on this thread!!

 

I actually have been doing my PUG HMFPs on my Kinght lately. And almost universally they have been good and understanding when I wrote, 'just back to Knight tanking, may be rusty.'

2. I'm not sure about guardian, but a shadow tank has ample time to use force speed, get stunned by the boss's leap attack, and still get to the generator several GCDs before the boss rampages. And as the above poster said, the boss will only leap if you get too far from him.

 

I haven't tried this myself on my Knight, but apparently we can intercede (not sure what the Jugg equivalent is called) to the generator. I would think it is a pain as you have to go target it, but, supposedly it is an option.

I haven't tried this myself on my Knight, but apparently we can intercede (not sure what the Jugg equivalent is called) to the generator. I would think it is a pain as you have to go target it, but, supposedly it is an option.

 

guardian leap/intercede on healer/dps, works better if you kite your way towards the generator until the intercede target is standing still.

on shadow/assassin, if you force speed you will get out of melee range and eat the stun, but you can pop resilience/force shroud to avoid that while speeding.

on VG/PT just hold the line/override your way.

 

if you built enough threat, you should be able to complete all the above maneuvers without having to taunt at all.

I haven't tried this myself on my Knight, but apparently we can intercede (not sure what the Jugg equivalent is called) to the generator. I would think it is a pain as you have to go target it, but, supposedly it is an option.

Yeah, I've heard that too. I was mostly thinking that there might even be enough time to get there without any movement abilities if you spot the green one fast enough. It rarely takes me more than two seconds to find it after the "sandstorm simulation started" notification comes up. Of course, correct positioning while waiting for it is important too.

Sorry to say, but the weirdest one in that run was you.

1. As a tank, you should be able to hold aggro all the time. If the DPS is geared higher than you, they may grab aggro in the beginning, but a well-placed taunt will fix that. Also remember to use guard when grouped with high-geared DPS.

2. I'm not sure about guardian, but a shadow tank has ample time to use force speed, get stunned by the boss's leap attack, and still get to the generator several GCDs before the boss rampages. And as the above poster said, the boss will only leap if you get too far from him.

 

The DPS could perhaps have played that a bit better, but if they haven't played a tank and especially if they are ranged, chances are they haven't developed the reflexes to look up the green generator and move to it.

 

I understand everything you said. The thing is, the dps dont move when the sandstorm/green gen comes up, they just stay in one spot and keep dps'ing the boss, which means I have to get back into range and taunt. If I use the taunt and I am not close enough to the generator that would be a wasted taunt, an instant smash, and a ton of unnecessary healing for the healer. Of course I guard the highest dps geared player. My tank is in almost full 180s with about 44k hp, and because the dps group isnt moving, I don't want to use taunt, yet. Is there something I am missing here?

I understand everything you said. The thing is, the dps dont move when the sandstorm/green gen comes up, they just stay in one spot and keep dps'ing the boss, which means I have to get back into range and taunt. If I use the taunt and I am not close enough to the generator that would be a wasted taunt, an instant smash, and a ton of unnecessary healing for the healer. Of course I guard the highest dps geared player. My tank is in almost full 180s with about 44k hp, and because the dps group isnt moving, I don't want to use taunt, yet. Is there something I am missing here?

 

You can still generate threat on the boss while moving. Force Sweep works even if you're facing away from the boss, Stasis for tanks is a fire n'forget threat move, AoE taunt doesn't share a c/d with single target taunt, bladestorm can be used if you turn around long enough to fire it off. You've got about 10-15s after engaging the boss to get a full threat rotation in before the first generator goes off. You should always be queueing up your next threat move and once you've tanked enough you'll *know* what your next move is as the timing will be ingrained.

I swear, this thread gave me second thoughts when I swapped main from a Deception Assassin to Carnage Marauder. I still to this day worry that the other three in a PUG say to themselves, 's**t, a MArauder.' But I take it as a challenge to play well and overcome that potential first opinion. Sadly ... I have caught myself when accepting the queue pop thinking, 's**t, a marauder!!' Usually after catching up on this thread!

 

I have the same issue on my sentinal. I work so much harder on my sent, simply because I think people are looking at me the same way I look at mara's/sents (oh damn, not again).

 

Although I do, after playing a sent, understand why most of them are go-go-go. The whole fact that doing nothing reduces their resource, whereas everyone else gains it is a nuisance, but even more so is the fury/centering. I hate seeing my unfinished (less than 30) stack of centering run out while I wait for the tank to pull. But that is no reason to pull before the tank. IMO if I end up starting the fight with no focus and no centering then that is what I will do, im not going to break group trinity just to maintain my centering.

 

Rant: Sad to say, people like you and me are the exception, not the norm. Most of the people playing these classes think their fury/centering and rage/focus is more important that group roles and fight mechanics, thereby giving us who want to play properly a bad name by association.

Edited August 16, 2014 by BobFredJohn

well until you don't have valor and his imp equivalent you see a zen/berserk once, twice in a week X-D

2. I'm not sure about guardian, but a shadow tank has ample time to use force speed, get stunned by the boss's leap attack, and still get to the generator several GCDs before the boss rampages. And as the above poster said, the boss will only leap if you get too far from him.

 

 

It's pretty hard to just run on guardian to the generators, that's why there is this skill called guardian leap - you can guardian leap on generators when they are active

I understand everything you said. The thing is, the dps dont move when the sandstorm/green gen comes up, they just stay in one spot and keep dps'ing the boss, which means I have to get back into range and taunt. If I use the taunt and I am not close enough to the generator that would be a wasted taunt, an instant smash, and a ton of unnecessary healing for the healer. Of course I guard the highest dps geared player. My tank is in almost full 180s with about 44k hp, and because the dps group isnt moving, I don't want to use taunt, yet. Is there something I am missing here?

 

Why would they move if they are ranged? It's your job to move the boss. They can't stack up for heals due to splash damage from the bosses smash or whatever is called so they might as well not move at all and turret. Usually taunts are not needed at all in that fight. Good practise for beginner tanks is not to use taunts until absolutely necessary.

I understand everything you said. The thing is, the dps dont move when the sandstorm/green gen comes up, they just stay in one spot and keep dps'ing the boss, which means I have to get back into range and taunt. If I use the taunt and I am not close enough to the generator that would be a wasted taunt, an instant smash, and a ton of unnecessary healing for the healer. Of course I guard the highest dps geared player. My tank is in almost full 180s with about 44k hp, and because the dps group isnt moving, I don't want to use taunt, yet. Is there something I am missing here?

 

Moving the boss into the generator is tank duty and that was your fault, dont blame deeps for it.

l2p:eek:

 

Sure, good deeps will be able to see and awful tank and do the job for you

rDps has not any reason to move

I know im hard on that but it is the truth

 

PD: There is one thing i hate on this game, players saying im full 180 gear like they have awesum gear.

I've seen too many tanks in full 180 COMMS gear (alacrity, accuracy, endurance crap) wat a ****

Edited August 16, 2014 by Dark_Mithrandir

PD: There is one thing i hate on this game, players saying im full 180 gear like they have awesum gear.

I've seen too many tanks in full 180 COMMS gear (alacrity, accuracy, endurance crap) wat a ****

 

countless times i've been ''offtank'' on full tokens tanks(even dread forged)..people just look at HP..same as for tanks guarding random dps based only on HP.

 

but when the OP main tank goes down or you face tank all the trash and bosses in between taunts are some of the best things can happen in pugs

16M TFB SM.

 

TL;DR, I met one too many tanks who doesn't know how to the taunt mechanics work for the last boss. More than twice.

 

So anyways. "Geared" SPECIAL!Tank kept saying "I have no service", didn't get up from the battle rez in the last boss and wiped us. This Shadow DPS kept on explaining how the mechs work, but seems like none of the tank listened to him. 3rd wipe. I told my friend to respec to tank to replace the SPECIAL!Tank. Still saying "I have no service", but goes on to DPS with smooth animation and he's obviously lying about "no service" aka lagging. Ugh. At that time it was already late and I'm getting really annoyed by this SPECIAL!Tank.

 

So we let him DPS, my friend tanks. Unfortunately the off-tank also doesn't know what to do. Even after explanations. And then I wondered where are all of my fellow DPS who are supposed to DPS the left tentacle. Right. The SPECIAL!Tank DID NOT DPS THE TENTACLE. HE JUST KEPT DPS'ING THE BOSS. Even when me and the other DPS downed the left tentacle, he DID NOT get the orbs. He just kept DPS'ing the boss. While him expecting people being fooled that he is "lagging". Sigh. SIGH.

 

Leader himself is not really skilled in leadership. We had to arrange the ops frame for him, and when people left because they were already too annoyed (magically I'm still in the raid even though I'm raging), he didn't even bother going out of the instance to recruit more people after he said he is "staying". I was THIS close to crying. Me and my two friends finally quit the raid cause it was really late. It was a waste of time.

 

But PUG, is where you meet all kinds of people. Not necessarily good ones.

Why would they move if they are ranged? It's your job to move the boss. They can't stack up for heals due to splash damage from the bosses smash or whatever is called so they might as well not move at all and turret. Usually taunts are not needed at all in that fight. Good practise for beginner tanks is not to use taunts until absolutely necessary.

 

Actually I've healed this on my Sorc and my Operative, and I've never seen any "splash damage", or if there is any it is indistinguishable from the regular sandstorm ticking damage. I prefer for people to stand near the boss so that I can keep them up better with my AoE heals. Especially on my Sorc, standing together so I can use my puddle heal makes it much easier to keep the group near full HP during and after the sandstorms. If someone in the group doesn't follow us to the generator, I'm not going to run back and heal them when they are out of my range.

My tank is in almost full 180s with about 44k hp, and because the dps group isnt moving, I don't want to use taunt, yet. Is there something I am missing here?

 

That's what you're missing... 44k HP sub-180s tank is stacking *way* too much endurance, either via augments or by endurance-high comms gear.

 

Don't.

Actually I've healed this on my Sorc and my Operative, and I've never seen any "splash damage", or if there is any it is indistinguishable from the regular sandstorm ticking damage. I prefer for people to stand near the boss so that I can keep them up better with my AoE heals. Especially on my Sorc, standing together so I can use my puddle heal makes it much easier to keep the group near full HP during and after the sandstorms. If someone in the group doesn't follow us to the generator, I'm not going to run back and heal them when they are out of my range.

 

When he does his thing that destroys generator there are like circles around everyone - they damage others if they stand in them. With gear everybody now has it all doesn't matter.

16M TFB SM.

 

TL;DR, I met one too many tanks who doesn't know how to the taunt mechanics work for the last boss. More than twice.

 

So anyways. "Geared" SPECIAL!Tank kept saying "I have no service", didn't get up from the battle rez in the last boss and wiped us. This Shadow DPS kept on explaining how the mechs work, but seems like none of the tank listened to him. 3rd wipe. I told my friend to respec to tank to replace the SPECIAL!Tank. Still saying "I have no service", but goes on to DPS with smooth animation and he's obviously lying about "no service" aka lagging. Ugh. At that time it was already late and I'm getting really annoyed by this SPECIAL!Tank.

 

So we let him DPS, my friend tanks. Unfortunately the off-tank also doesn't know what to do. Even after explanations. And then I wondered where are all of my fellow DPS who are supposed to DPS the left tentacle. Right. The SPECIAL!Tank DID NOT DPS THE TENTACLE. HE JUST KEPT DPS'ING THE BOSS. Even when me and the other DPS downed the left tentacle, he DID NOT get the orbs. He just kept DPS'ing the boss. While him expecting people being fooled that he is "lagging". Sigh. SIGH.

 

But PUG, is where you meet all kinds of people. Not necessarily good ones.

 

Ah, TFB is a wonderful op to run with pugs.

 

Had a similar situation with a tank-after-split dps during a 16m SM. It all started when one of the tanks was AFK for a while. We all decided to continue with the current OT and this tank-to-be dps (I'll call him X). So X is told to tank temporarily and given instructions. Right as we pull a trash group, the MT comes back, and we say so in chat. But somehow, this confuses the hell out of X, and he continues to think he is tanking throughout the rest of the op.

 

So the tanks would discuss taunting during boss fights in chat, and X would always chime in with, "Ok", despite me saying, "X, you are just dpsing now".

 

Then, every time he'd die, he'd say, "Crap, lagged." He did this a few times up till Kephess. I think he was still in tank stance, and got aggro and lightning debuff. I watched as he did nothing and died. And of course, "Crap, lagged." "No, X, you got aggro and didn't remove the lightning." "Oh."

Edited August 16, 2014 by BigBreakfast

It's pretty hard to just run on guardian to the generators, that's why there is this skill called guardian leap - you can guardian leap on generators when they are active

 

You dont need to guard leap to it, and you have to use a "target next ally" keybinding to even target it to leap to. This can get screwed up cycling through all of your team before it gets the generator in your sights. And if this takes too long, guard leaping will land you far enough from the generator that the boss will be out of range for the rampage. Since you jumped, the boss will leap to you and stun ... etc, this is just not a good way to do it. At all.

 

There is never a reason not to have the Expeditious Protector / Rule of Two talents. You do not need a CD reduction on Retaliate while you have Saber Ward up, you do not need a CD reduction on Force Push or a resource reduction on your slow, and Ravage is just a filler move for when you have *nothing* else you could be doing for a tank. Always get that speed boost. It is so useful.

That's what you're missing... 44k HP sub-180s tank is stacking *way* too much endurance, either via augments or by endurance-high comms gear.

 

Don't.

 

That gear is perfectly acceptable for all current flashpoints. Whether anyone will let him into their nightmare progression group is another discussion entirely.

 

The only time recently I've seen someone's gear choice negatively impact a flashpoint was the case of a special medium-armor-wearing merc dps, who was wearing the agent's verpine set (with the mods etc replaced, she wasn't that dumb) as a fashion choice. She even had the medium verpine helmet... which she had toggled off display.

 

Anyway this would not even have been an issue if she had held back during the flashpoint and been content being ranged dps, but she consistently rushed ahead of the group (and the healer) to pull mobs before the tank. She said she was doing this because she wanted the extra credits from killing the mobs we were going to skip, because she was down to her last 15k since she had just got this new outfit and had to transfer all her mods to it... but she kept dying before the group could rescue her so I shudder to think what her repair bill was like.

 

The last thing she said before I left was, "Why is my armor so low now?!"

I understand everything you said. The thing is, the dps dont move when the sandstorm/green gen comes up, they just stay in one spot and keep dps'ing the boss, which means I have to get back into range and taunt. If I use the taunt and I am not close enough to the generator that would be a wasted taunt, an instant smash, and a ton of unnecessary healing for the healer. Of course I guard the highest dps geared player. My tank is in almost full 180s with about 44k hp, and because the dps group isnt moving, I don't want to use taunt, yet. Is there something I am missing here?

Did you ask the DPS to move to the generator and provide you with a leap target? If they don't play guardian tanks themselves, they might not have realized your lack of speed boost skills. In any case, since you are the tank, the boss should be following you, not the DPS.

 

A taunt is never wasted on most bosses. If you already had highest threat, you'll just increase it by 30%. If someone else had more than you, you'll get an even larger boost. Aside from a few bosses that have aggro drop mechanics, you can't go wrong by taunting the boss every time your taunt is available. And if a DPS steals aggro from you, you should taunt ASAP - even using an area taunt if your single taunt was already on cooldown (though if you lose aggro again during the 15 second cooldown, you're having bigger problems).

 

Also, "get back into range and taunt"? Isn't the range of taunts 30 m, which almost covers the distance from the generator to the middle? Or do guardian's taunts have a shorter range than the other two tank classes?

 

My shadow tank, geared in perhaps half 180 and the other half 168 (40.5k HP without a stim), never has any problems holding aggro from that boss. Occasionally someone rips it with their opening rotation, but a quick aggro will fix that and the boss stays on me for the rest of the fight. Even when I force speed towards the generator and don't hit the boss again until I get there.

If they don't play guardian tanks themselves, they might not have realized your lack of speed boost skills. .

 

There is never a reason not to have the Expeditious Protector / Rule of Two talents. You do not need a CD reduction on Retaliate while you have Saber Ward up, you do not need a CD reduction on Force Push or a resource reduction on your slow, and Ravage is just a filler move for when you have *nothing* else you could be doing for a tank. Always get that speed boost. It is so useful.

 

5char

Years ago I was healing in Hammer Station SM. 2 things happened.

 

First the Tank gave me Guard and told me not to take damage because he would die then....

 

And on the last boss noone cared about the adds so they went on me...I died...the tank died... the dds died. Then the tank started shouting at me why I got killed by adds even though I coukd heal myself had force barrier and a stun...