So after making this thread I realized a whole new server would be an unreasonable request, so i'm switching gears....I am now trying to open up discussion for a possible new 'supercharged' mode that would require you to defeat NiM several times before you were geared enough to complete it. Or maybe even you have to complete the "survived past last boss" achievement before you can unlock it...I'm liking that idea. Any thoughts peeps?

 

The reason I'm thinking of something like this is cuz it appears that 1 day clears of new operations from top guilds will start becoming a trend (aside from 'overtuned' DG Council that was nerfed yesterday)....I understand why it's that way, it's a business decision...giving everyone at least the opportunity to go in and clear the games hardest content, not just the "1%." I'm just trying to find a happy medium, maybe this or some other idea you all come up with will be the answer!

 

Just to be clear, I'm hoping this thread doesn't bring out the trolls or angry name calling, but more as inspiration to come up with a compromise to the fact that many hardcore raiders would like something more challenging to strive for in between new content releases.

Edited June 27, 2013 by odawgg

i think they could pull something off if they just buffed everything like they did with ev and kp. i dont think i woudl feel comfortable with BW taking my money and using to make content for the top 1%. now that they have closed down so many servers, i think they could put a new one up without too much fuss. the PTS shows that they have the server isolation tech to keep stuff seperate, but that also requires seperate installs of the game, so you 1%'ers might need to create a 3rd install (PTS, live and elite)

i think they could pull something off if they just buffed everything like they did with ev and kp. i dont think i woudl feel comfortable with BW taking my money and using to make content for the top 1%. now that they have closed down so many servers, i think they could put a new one up without too much fuss. the PTS shows that they have the server isolation tech to keep stuff seperate, but that also requires seperate installs of the game, so you 1%'ers might need to create a 3rd install (PTS, live and elite)

 

Yeah i hear ya there, maybe then just make a "supercharged" mode instead of a new server that just buffs everything a bit...without adding any new tiers of gear

Edited June 26, 2013 by odawgg

OR.. maybe they should just use some of the features already built in differently.

 

Rework the LOOT selection option to also TUNE up the instance you are attempting. Right now I think it's related to how looting works at certain levels (Green, Artifact, etc). REWORK it instead..

 

For example:

• Pick the 2nd Setting and you get 2% HP BUFF on all the content and 5% more loot + 1 extra ITEM end boss.
  
• Pick the 3rd Setting 3% HP BUFF or whatever is easy to scale and 10% more loot +1 random ITEM per boss.
  
• Pick TOP Setting 5% HP BUFF (Or whatever) and 25% more loot + extra Set Bonus gear like in 16 man.
  

Like NiM TFB on highest loot setting (Legendary I think?) would give 2 Bracers on first boss, 2 randoms and 25% more cash and other goodies. (Ultimate Comm's, Elite Comm's, etc).

 

Just an idea... might help with progression guild runs, but just a band-aid solution that is more in line with the DG fight we just saw pre-nerf.

Edited June 27, 2013 by dscount

What would be ideal is to start out having nightmare modes with all the bosses around dread guard level, and then a couple months later nerfing the bosses so less hardcore raiders could clear content.

What's funny is you say one day clears are going to become a trend..and you request a new mode on top of nightmare which should already be what you ask for. When people couldnt clear the DG the first day they whined it to nerf. I know you arent one of those people from what I've seen, but the fact of the matter is a 4th mode sounds absolutely ridiculous. NiM just can't be what it should because of all the babies out there who whine how it is "mathematically impossible" when guilds are PROGRESSING further and further. The OPs guild, and several others proved that you are all complete.morons.

The guy above me has the right idea. My phone makes it impossible to type correctly so sorry if anything is a mess.

Edited June 27, 2013 by TrillOG-

What's funny is you say one day clears are going to become a trend..and you request a new mode on top of nightmare which should already be what you ask for. When people couldnt clear the DG the first day they whined it to nerf. I know you arent one of those people from what I've seen, but the fact of the matter is a 4th mode sounds absolutely ridiculous. NiM just can't be what it should because of all the babies out there who whine how it is "mathematically impossible" when guilds are PROGRESSING further and further. The OPs guild, and several others proved that you are all complete morons.

 

And I understand ur anger...believe me I do...I however would like to not make this a thread, like so many others already since TFB NiM came out...that bashes BW for catering to QQ'ers etc etc. I'm trying to inspire people to think of ideas that maybe BW could use as a compromise. But thank you for sharing your thoughts!

 

There are many of us that wish NiMs present a greater challenge, that probably isn't going to happen so let's see if there's something that CAN happen.

Honestly, I don't see this happening, from what I see there would only be two options with this tuning of operations,

 

either a) harder operation has the same loot as easier, only difference is tougher to down bosses, this will take away motivation to do the tougher content from most raiding groups

 

or b) harder operation has better loot and the casual raiding groups whine about fights being too difficult because they feel like they deserve just as good loot as the 'elite' groups.

 

Your suggestion would likely only work on a server specifically designated for harder operations and with the amount of work that Bioware needs to put into fixing many aspects of the game, I for one would be against setting up another server for the 1% that would take up more of their time when there are 100's of more important things (imo) to work on.

Honestly, I don't see this happening, from what I see there would only be two options with this tuning of operations,

 

either a) harder operation has the same loot as easier, only difference is tougher to down bosses, this will take away motivation to do the tougher content from most raiding groups

 

or b) harder operation has better loot and the casual raiding groups whine about fights being too difficult because they feel like they deserve just as good loot as the 'elite' groups.

 

Your suggestion would likely only work on a server specifically designated for harder operations and with the amount of work that Bioware needs to put into fixing many aspects of the game, I for one would be against setting up another server for the 1% that would take up more of their time when there are 100's of more important things (imo) to work on.

 

1%?

 

Number sounds way high if you're thinking of number of players and guilds who have downed DG.

figure of speech

What would be ideal is to start out having nightmare modes with all the bosses around dread guard level, and then a couple months later nerfing the bosses so less hardcore raiders could clear content.

 

I agree with the IDEA, but disagree with the time to "NERF" so the larger community at large can actually attempt the content.

 

Basically we have 1% (Okay maybe the 1% of the top 1% of guilds) that could clear DG NiM level difficulty after many attempts and skilled coordination (Good thing). This creates a great challenge for progression and "Server First / World First" type guilds. The DOWN SIDE is these would also completely alienate the other 99.xx% of the community that has also been waiting for more content. Most of which also pay SUB's and tackle the same NiM content with mild success, but still moving forward. My personal take is NiM version of existing OPS is not really "New Content" but that's just me.

 

It's a tightrope act for BW to appease the hardcore folks and keep everyone else from getting pissed off and bailing out at the same time. I don't envy them as they will get QQ on both sides of the fence. (Elites want more DG and Casual want to down same w/o crazy elite challenges) - Need to make new content at least achievable by more than a super small subset of individuals, BUT at the same time provide incentive to those wanting the "HARD CORE kick my teeth in runs". Bigger Risk means bigger rewards. (Hence my suggestion to have a "Tune up" option)

maybe bioware could simply put in achievements or killing bosses in different methods in nightmare mode? Instead of making it so you must kill say Heirad first, ciphas second, kelsara third code it so you can actually kill in different orders unlocking different abilities and earn achievements or even extra stuff like mounts etc for killing in those orders. Could add in things like kill 100 foul offspring during a single WH kill. Or alter operator so it doesnt nuke you instantly if you miss a dps phase and instead put in something where you kill 4 rectifiers for the bonus achievement. Killing 4 rectifiers would be incredibly difficult for healers to keep up with with that aoe plus the longer time in p1. Not sure how you could alter kephess fight or terror but Im sure someone could come up with something that could work as a way to make the current nightmare modes more difficult for achievements.

If you really want the same content tuned to more of a challenge without new gear dropping, why not just do the currently available modes undermanned or undergeared? I know new=better, and I suppose another difficulty mode is "new", but if you don't want to do a one-day clear try doing nightmare mode in something besides min-maxed 72s. See how far you can get in stock 72s, min-maxed 69s, nothing but comm gear, etc. Try it without relics, or everyone going without a chestpiece/pants. If the operations aren't tuned hard enough, you can make them more difficult. Raising damage/health of bosses is functionally the same as attempting them in lower tiers of gear or unoptimized gear.

 

It's extremely unlikely another difficulty mode will be created, or it will come soon if it is created, but there are ways to make easy fights difficult again.

 

(Somewhat selfishly, I suppose, I'm against this "new server" because I'd much rather have all operations-related effort go to creating a new op, not retuning old ones to create a higher difficulty)

 

Edit: Achievements for doing fights in different ways and accomplishing various things during the fights I could definitely get behind.

Edited June 27, 2013 by namesaretough

add in an achievement to clear all the operations in campaign gear/mods only:P

add in an achievement to clear all the operations in campaign gear/mods only:P

 

"Who needs Bolster?: Cleared NiM TFB while all group members had 2018 expertise"

I like the idea of taking a NiM operation and just scaling the HP or lowering the enrage timer. It would be pretty easy to implement, and lets be honest, meeting the DPS check while also dealing with all the mechanics is what made pre-nerf DG so painful. Since hopefully they'll continue to develop tough mechanics for NiM adding in Legendary with simply appropriately scaled numbers would be pretty easy. Make it so it drops more loot than NiM but not necessarily different loot (but give it its own title and maybe a vanity mount/pet/armor shell), would give incentive to go without locking out people who can't handle it from getting the top tier gear and then whining about it.

Insanity dificulty levels, all enrage timers are cut by 30 seconds, but drops one extra piece of loot. I think that sounds pretty good, and would be the easiest way to implement something like this I think.

I would honestly prefer that the just tuned the entire instance to that of nightmare quality fights. The DreadGuard fight was a perfect example of a Nightmare tuned fight. The entire operation should have been on the same level of difficulty with outbound damage, mechanics, and difficulty. not make the most difficult fight easier.

well, they did promise in 2.3 or 2.4 new flashpoints, my bet is on colicoids and red reaper HM. question is, how will they tune them.

 

new NiM mode of old HMs would be also nice.

or

entirely new FPs, but that probably will be to hard (for devs).

well, they did promise in 2.3 or 2.4 new flashpoints, my bet is on colicoids and red reaper HM. question is, how will they tune them.

 

new NiM mode of old HMs would be also nice.

or

entirely new FPs, but that probably will be to hard (for devs).

 

I'm thinking something more related to the hut cartel. We'll find out soon though.

Yeah I think I stick by my idea of a supercharged/tuned up version as well...As much as I wish there were more DGs I just don't see it happening at least intentionally by BW anymore. And adding this extra mode would be very very easy/cheap to implement as to not "waste" subscribers money as some people have put it.

 

I still like the idea that you have to have at least one person in group that has completed "survived past last boss" achievement to unlock this mode and the mode should require at least close to BiS for the top guilds for that particular content. And of course there needs to be some incentive to do it like mounts/pets/titles/extra gear/etc.

I like the idea or rather the core values this thread is going after. However, I feel some have lost sight of what we have (at least supposed to).

 

Let's turn back the wheels a bit to EV/KP...NiM was supposed to be the challenge of challenges, guilds rushed to get to the end and down the content. When we got there, we were confronted with an increase in damage and health (I want to say 5 or 10% from HM levels). Many found this to be too easy and left the game. NiM EC comes out and we gain extra mechanics on top of the increases. Now, this is a tad more challenging. Around this time, it is made known that the NiM operations were meant for progression guilds or rather highly coordinated groups; not just your average guild that wants a step up from SM.

 

The moral here is that NiM is supposed to be our "highly tuned operation." Many will say it isn't that difficult, but I would like to point you in the direction of 8 Man NiM Dread Guards. Clearly it is one of the top 5 most difficult fights in the game...it got nerfed because some people complained about it being overturned. Personal feelings aside, this is what happens when the majority of your "hard core" raiders leave a game before difficult content is realeased. As a result, the fights get tuned to those that are not as skilled and/or dedicated.

 

TL;DR SWTOR does not have the player base of the more skilled raiders that play MMO's. As a result, there will never be a truly challenging operation.

 

More on what I think: