actually it's the people who are lacking in skill right now that want it .. the good players .. don't want it or need it ..

 

That is the silliest bit of reasoning I have read in a long time.

 

GOOD players use all tools at their disposal to be the best they can be.

 

When addons and macros are implemented (they ARE coming) GOOD players will start using them as a matter of course.

 

Can you be decent without them? Certainly, but a good player who uses them becomes even better. People need to use ALL tools that are available - including learning how to mouse turn and keybind.

Edited February 23, 2012 by Rasstavad

Addons and to some extent macros hurt those who don't want to use them in a variety of ways, wether you listen to them or not is up to you.

 

They have a choice to use macros, so it would be their choice to not use them that was hurting them not the fact that there was a macro interface included in the game.

 

For starters the easiest is in PvP, take someone with properly set macros against someone without them. Give them equal gear and equal abilities. The person with macros will win 9/10 times because even the best set up hotbar and fastest clicker can't compete with someone spamming 2 buttons with no regard to what they do.

 

if they are a clicker then they are going to be losing every time anyway so nothing would change for them.

 

the fact that you think that macros is all about just spamming 2 buttons pretty much shows you have never used nor understood how they work or what can be done with them

 

External addons are in fact another program running on your system

no they are not.

 

and not everyone has a brand new $5000 computer.

 

this game can easily be played on full settings on a computer built for $1K or less and addons will not change that

 

 

They will be more lagged, thus slower to react than they were, it might be minor on your system (1-2 fps) but it could be very noticable on someone elses. I notice a difference (very small) in my FPS with just mumble running.

 

mumble is an external program and a known resource hog in no way similar to addons

 

On top of that both macros/addons make content much easier, forcing the game designers to either up the diffuculty of current and future encounters or let the hardcore addon users just stomp raids and clear them in a half hour. Either way the people that use the addons are at a distinct advantage above how the game was designed.

 

this is just wrong , from all of what you said you clearly have no idea what macro's and addons do , how they work nor what they are used for

 

 

any macro that includes an ability that has either a cast time or is channeled would cancel the ability being cast if the button was spammed

 

the most useful macros are mouse over macros that allow an ability to be cast at a target the mouse is over ( or players name in the raid frames ) so things like heals and taunts can be cast without dropping your current target and then reacquiring it with tab targeting (or as most people know it roll and lol ) or clicking which just does not work due to a number of reasons

 

as for addons , they are basically user rewrites of the user interface, or parts of it not separate programs , but replacements of the scripted interface that you are already running, they take the information that is already provided to the client and arange and display it in ways that are useful to the player , they do not magically increase the amount of damage you do or use information that is not already provided.

 

the most popular addons will be modifiers for action bars , raid frames, chat and mini maps, scrolling text ( so you can actually see the damage and heals going out & coming in) damage and threat meters , none of these play the game for you but do help you know what is going on , by displaying information already provided in a way that you can easily comprehend.

They have a choice to use macros, so it would be their choice to not use them that was hurting them not the fact that there was a macro interface included in the game.

 

 

 

if they are a clicker then they are going to be losing every time anyway so nothing would change for them.

 

the fact that you think that macros is all about just spamming 2 buttons pretty much shows you have never used nor understood how they work or what can be done with them

 

no they are not.

 

 

 

this game can easily be played on full settings on a computer built for $1K or less and addons will not change that

 

 

 

 

mumble is an external program and a known resource hog in no way similar to addons

 

 

 

this is just wrong , from all of what you said you clearly have no idea what macro's and addons do , how they work nor what they are used for

 

 

any macro that includes an ability that has either a cast time or is channeled would cancel the ability being cast if the button was spammed

 

the most useful macros are mouse over macros that allow an ability to be cast at a target the mouse is over ( or players name in the raid frames ) so things like heals and taunts can be cast without dropping your current target and then reacquiring it with tab targeting (or as most people know it roll and lol ) or clicking which just does not work due to a number of reasons

 

as for addons , they are basically user rewrites of the user interface, or parts of it not separate programs , but replacements of the scripted interface that you are already running, they take the information that is already provided to the client and arange and display it in ways that are useful to the player , they do not magically increase the amount of damage you do or use information that is not already provided.

 

the most popular addons will be modifiers for action bars , raid frames, chat and mini maps, scrolling text ( so you can actually see the damage and heals going out & coming in) damage and threat meters , none of these play the game for you but do help you know what is going on , by displaying information already provided in a way that you can easily comprehend.

 

^This. I can't wait to remake the UI if AddOns come. Gonna make it all pretty and stuff lol

The problem with addons and macros is that the developers have to assume every raider will use it when they create challenging raiding contents. Otherwise, raiders with addons will find contents not challenging enough.

 

This will create a vicious cycle. Contents become more challenging, more addons are created. The developers then have to take next step and create even more challenging contents. Ultimately, it forces every raider to use addons.

 

When the game has no addons, the developers can safely assume that every raider has no addon and contents will be designed with this in mind.

 

A good example is decurse. When you have this addon, curses are a joke for healers to dispel. So developers cannot use this as challenging boss mechanics.

Edited February 23, 2012 by kyuyu

Funny, no one forces you to use macros and addons.

 

Perhaps you should enjoy playing the way you like to play, and have the respect for others to allow them to do the same.

 

Stop worrying about how other people play.

 

problem is it gives people who do use them an unfair advantage which forces everyone to use them to keep it fair.

What drawbacks?

 

Fact: Anyone can use mods.

 

Hence: If the game changes to accomodate mods, anyone can use those mods, so the playing field remains equal.

 

Except you're making the assumption that all addons/macros are available to everyone. People who are good at quickly hitting the right button on the keyboard are upset because they know if addons/macros are added, they'll be soundly beat by people who are good at creating their own custom macros/addons. (and then don't share them in public forums).

 

'Course, since this is an RPG, it's not SUPPOSED to be about player reflexes being able to hit the right button on the keyboard, but rather the characters reflexes.

 

So I say bring in a full scale scripted combat system like the gambit system from FFXII. Let's see if your custom script can beat my custom script.

 

Yeah, yeah, therein lies the gateway to botting. ('course, there isn't much POINT to botted fighting in this game... I'm almost always overleveled for all the content as it is, I don't see why anybody would really want to powerlevel up even faster. Seems like the only concern with botting would be harvesting bots).

 

edit: And yes, I have played MMO's where macros, combined with addons, could in fact create relatively intelligent "1 click = heal raid" buttons. (or just about anything else) Admittedly, each click would only do a single action, but each action each time you click would be optimal for the current situation at the time you click. And, of course, could always go "off script" for any emergency that isn't handled by the script. Since it only follows 1 scripted action each time you click. 'Course, I'll readily admit to being a scripter at heart. In Oblivion I ended up spending more time creating AI scripts for companions than I did actually playing the game. Had a lot of fun making a hunter companion that would run around the area I was in harvesting stuff for me.

Edited February 23, 2012 by GnatB

Oh how I love my Razer keyboard. All you whiners against macros i'm already ******** on you in WarZones, thank you have a nice day.

 

I'm not for or against them, I will have them either way.

Edited February 23, 2012 by TJHarmon

The problem with addons and macros is that the developers have to assume every raider will use it when they create challenging raiding contents. Otherwise, raiders with addons will find contents not challenging enough.

 

This will create a vicious cycle. Contents become more challenging, more addons are created. The developers then have to take next step and create even more challenging contents. Ultimately, it forces every raider to use addons.

 

When the game has no addons, the developers can safely assume that every raider has no addon and contents will be designed with this in mind.

 

A good example is decurse. When you have this addon, curses are a joke for healers to dispel. So developers cannot use this as challenging boss mechanics.

 

 

problem is it gives people who do use them an unfair advantage which forces everyone to use them to keep it fair.

 

 

read my previous post , there is no magical "OMG i use addons so i do 2millionz deeps "

 

you are arguing against something for a bunch of reasons you made up , there is no down side to having user contributed interfaces

 

addons present the same information in another way , the information is already being sent to your client , an addon is just a customised user interface

Funny, no one forces you to use macros and addons.

 

Perhaps you should enjoy playing the way you like to play, and have the respect for others to allow them to do the same.

 

Stop worrying about how other people play.

 

The point is that the game makes you use them over time. From the complaints that I've seen about other games, the developers create new content with the idea that everyone uses them. If you aren't playing the game as half a machine with macros doing most of the work for you, then you can't really complete the new content. At that point, I'll be playing a lot more Mass Effect 3 & Uncharted 3.

 

On a similar note, other players also expect you to use those "tools." Unless one can find a guild that would not use macros, then you'll be getting kicked from groups and socially banned from group content.

Edited February 23, 2012 by flyersfan

addons present the same information in another way , the information is already being sent to your client , an addon is just a customised user interface

 

Depends on the restrictions placed on the addons/macros by the developers.

 

Addons pretty much have to be able to trigger abilities in order to allow custom quickslots to work. Addons pretty much have to have to be able to determine the health of allies/enemies in order to create custom life bars. Put that together, and you can make a button that figures out which ally is most wounded, targets that ally, and uses an ability (heal) on that ally. Developer would have to go through some effort to create restrictions that would prevent an addon like that from working. (like maybe some addons are read only, some are right only, or somesuch, or "blackbox" the health stuff somehow.)

I'm not worried about it really. It's a natural evolution, and it will eventually lead to a balance of those who choose to use them, and those who choose not to.

 

Also if SWTOR is in this for the long haul, and I hope this game lasts for decades, they may eventually integrate those mods into the game structure itself. *shrug* Only time will tell.

 

I guess I've played MMOs for such a long time that I'm rather zen about this now. If the addons come I will simply choose my path, my usage, and my need of them.....and I will carefully choose the people that I associate with as well.

 

That's all there is to it...for me at least.

Depends on the restrictions placed on the addons/macros by the developers.

 

Addons pretty much have to be able to trigger abilities in order to allow custom quickslots to work. Addons pretty much have to have to be able to determine the health of allies/enemies in order to create custom life bars. Put that together, and you can make a button that figures out which ally is most wounded, targets that ally, and uses an ability (heal) on that ally. Developer would have to go through some effort to create restrictions that would prevent an addon like that from working. (like maybe some addons are read only, some are right only, or somesuch, or "blackbox" the health stuff somehow.)

 

 

your assumptions are incorrect

 

1. addons do not have to be able trigger abilities, they provide a framework for holding the ability icons on your screen

 

2. custome life bars are displaying the existing life bars using a different skin

 

3. points 1&2 pretty much make your argument of "putting them together" to make a bot not possible

 

4. the interface for addons already exists, and is in use right now , all that stuff you see on your screen that disappears when you press cntrl u , is put there by the addon interface, the bulk of the development is already done. there would be a few restrictions needed to be put in place to limit what commands could be accessed by the interface , but at the moment all are restricted and so it is a matter of taking the limits off so that users have access to things , not the way you are thinking of it .

I think the part that most people have a problem with, is that these addons become mandatory whether you can perform well without them. Someone who isn't that great, but has all the addons and uses a cookie cutter spec, will be recruited over someone who is amazing but has an off beat spec and no addons. I was lucky enough in WoW to get to a point where no guilds cared if I had all the 'mandatory obligations' because I had a great reputation as a very good player. But finding a pug? I could only get into one of those if someone vouched for me. I'm not really for or against addons, I have used them. But I didn't use them all the time. I think the problem lies more with the player base wanting to use gearscore, and mandatory addons. But I guess if everyone played better in pugs, there wouldn't be a need to discriminate.

I think the part that most people have a problem with, is that these addons become mandatory whether you can perform well without them. Someone who isn't that great, but has all the addons and uses a cookie cutter spec, will be recruited over someone who is amazing but has an off beat spec and no addons. I was lucky enough in WoW to get to a point where no guilds cared if I had all the 'mandatory obligations' because I had a great reputation as a very good player. But finding a pug? I could only get into one of those if someone vouched for me. I'm not really for or against addons, I have used them. But I didn't use them all the time. I think the problem lies more with the player base wanting to use gearscore, and mandatory addons. But I guess if everyone played better in pugs, there wouldn't be a need to discriminate.

 

there is no way you or anyone else can know what addons i am using or not using

 

the problem people are having here is fear , fear that something they don't understand will somehow make the sky fall on their heads

 

 

you talk about wow and say you sometimes did not use addons , go now to your wow installation folder and have a look at it , you will find that you are using addons, the game comes standard with them , if you doubt me delete the addons folder and try to start the game (copy it to somewhere first so you can replace it when your game does not work)

 

addons are the user interface, it is the same thing you have now presented in different ways , there is no magic " i haz addon so my game plays automatically and kills all bosses now"

Why are people against having more choices/options? (Not that I like all mods - e.g. gearscore elitism, dps elitism)

Title says it all.

 

I like the game without macro's and add-on's that allow you to spam one button for everything. I currently play a level 40 combat medic and enjoy the thought process that goes through when playing.

 

Please don't cave in to the lazy.

I'v always wonderd about the psychology aspect of it, what kind of job do such people like youself have?

So to prevent groups from forcing you to do something, you'd instead force them not to do something?

 

I wish hypocrisy smelt like bacon, then more people would smell delicious.

 

I call BS... It's not hypocrisy to want to prevent the playing field to get slanted in any one direction.

Personally I'd like to see dps meters as they add more fun to farm content rather than detract but then I'm the sort of player who likes to change build often to experiment...

 

I hope the UI customisation is robust, I suspect it will be champions style but mostly playing sawbones I like the raid bars but really want to relocate my casting bar and energy.

 

And whilst grid makes it to easy I wish debuffs on teammates were more obvious on the bars.

I never used macros playing my tank in WoW. Tried numerous of the supposedly custom-for-cookie-cutter (and there's only one tankadin build in post-Cata WoW worth having in mechanical terms) macro sets off Elitist Jerks suggestions and it just wasn't as effective for me as my own keybind fiesta on my naga.

 

Sure do miss mouseover healing though. And total UI customization. And titanbar. And map improvements for gathering harvest routes.

 

None are absolutely necessary, but after playing the game with power windows, heated contoured seats, fully adjustable sound system audio positioning, one-touch dash preset controls right on the steering wheel and a hugely informative dashboard display, I still feel like I'm playing a much older, much less personalized-for-me game.

 

 

I suppose all the 'kills the community' ragers never took stock of how many communities built up around add-on development and customization though. I -really- miss the custom UI artwork an add-on programming buddy of mine made for me oe'er in WoW-land.

Addons will never be in the game. Creating a scripting language with in the game would require coding skills. The BW team hasn't shown much skill. Graphics that feel like they belong in games from 2005 but push graphics cards harder than the newest games pops to mind first. Inability to code /roll into the game has to be up there. Heck I could go on and on.

 

Bottom line--if BW ever did allow addons--the add on authors would run circles around the BW development team. All the BW team would be doing is chasing after exploits and the like--those that stay with the game would never see any new content.

I'd like to be able to write macros to use modifier keys, and state detection, so that I could place more than one ability in a quickslot, as my quickslot bars are quite full of situationally useful abilities.

I think the OP is silly.

 

There should be more customisation, why shouldent I be able to get new frames and button bars, why cant I make macros?

 

I dont actually need or particulary want one button macros, but I would like to make buttons for follow and /say GUARDING %T so OTHER PEOPLE will know what I'm doing, stopping what I do to write is rather pointless oO

Thank you BW for not allowing addons and macros!

 

Spamming one or two buttons to do everything is not fun.

 

Hate having to have DBM/HealerCrapAddon/Whatever just so that i can raid.

 

Hey look, someone who doesn't understand macros at all and is thus scared of them.

Nothing wrong with addons, especially if they clean up the mess that is the default UI and makes it easier to keep track of my abilities. Squinting and watching the action bar is not a test of skill, it's one of patience.

They're coming. I can't wait!