ugly my good sir, you make way to much sense to be on the forums

It amazes me how these pugs keep talking about premades when none of them know if they have a premade or not. None of these pugs read the OP post at all I think. They see a post about premades and pugs and automatically cry about premades. LMFAO!!!! Do not make excuses for losing please people. I can't believe people actually think that whenever they pug and lose that the other team has a premade and there team has no premades.

Yesterday I was puggin' and got put into a Team with no Premades. We were however vsing a very good PvP Guild whom I encountered before. It was on AH.

 

Now this PvP Guild is like no other- its Premade of 3-4 men can stop us capping our node entirely, from start to finish, even with all of us there. And no we where not 'bad', as most of my teammates where from some of the best PvP Guilds on the Server. However they where Solo Queueing, and a Premader without his Premade is not invincible.

 

Like I said, I had encountered this Premade before and had learned what their plan was. So I went and ninja capped East. Since nobody had capped West but we had East we got the points for that round. When the next round started I told everyone to go East, as the Premade would've gone for West again. Again we capped East at the last moment, but they had also capped West. Next round starts and they've figured out what we're doing. They cap West, leave 2 PUGers to Guard and head off to stop us capping East. They where going to win. So me (I was on my Sin) and an Operative went to West to try and cap it. We saw two people guarding it, but they weren't the Premaders, but that wasn't going to stop us. We used our in-stealth Stuns to stun the two and the Operative started capping. They both broke the stuns, so to stop them interrupting I Electrocuted the first Guard and then Force Pulled the second Guard, Spiked him and amazingly enough we got the Node. We won thanks to it.

 

Probably wiped the smugness off the Premaders face who thought they where 'unbeatable'. One can only imagine the anger they had.

Edited February 1, 2013 by Chlomamf

ugly my good sir, you make way to much sense to be on the forums

 

I apologize... I'll be going now.

 

The problem is hardly the Premade if you take logic to the normal extension that it should be.

 

As several people have pointed out, not all premades are nicely-color coordinated groups of four people in the same guild. You might have 2 3-man teams and 2 pugs, or (lol) 4 2-man teams. Blaming the lack of 'fun' in WZ on premades solely could be answered very simply: if you exclude pre-mades from queuing into pug queues, do you suddenly think WZ will improve?

 

I assure you, single que WZ will not. Instead of having the possibility of a small premade group there to coordinate and guide pugs, you will simply have poorly communicating masses of people who 95% of have zero skills whatsoever, derping left and right.

 

Dismissing the OP statement as saying he's just wanting to roll PUG's is doubly illogical, because as he points out himself, half the time the PM is dragged down by the PUG. His argument of one of pointing out -- despite the histrionics from the bads who hate admitting it -- that the reason WZ suck is that PUGS SUCK.

 

I'll say it again. You SUCK. You show up not even wearing recruit, you refuse to listen, you go off on your own and let the enemy farm you, you refuse to use even chat to communicate, and you won't learn how to use your class. Yet you have the unlimited AUDACITY to suggest that the problem isn't your under-geared, clicking, won't pop special abilities, inefficient and overall poorly playing behind, but that instead the people who actually put effort into PVP?

 

Really?

 

REALLY?

 

I solo que a lot. I call incomings. I pop taunts and guard and I work down the healers and dps as tank, I focus heal the big killers and work bubble, hots and stuns/cc as healer. I try to work to a plan before the match starts and if people are determined to derp around I will not quit , but go ahead and try to play competitively. When my guild wants to PVP and we make a premade , I'm going to focus on winning, just like when I queue solo.

 

I'm not going to go in wearing garbage with 115 EXP and howl that smash is OP.

 

I'm not going to refuse to coordinate on caps and not call incoming then say the other side is hax because they can use Predation effectively.

 

I'm not going to go in specced in some kinda derpy expectation that if I just deathball around in the pit while the other team is running and passing and setting up people on our goal line that we lost at Huttball because of those "evul premades".

 

The sort of mind it takes to see that your play is execrable and suggest the solution is to get rid of all the good players is ... wow.

Edited February 1, 2013 by LogicalPremise

I assure you, single que WZ will not. Instead of having the possibility of a small premade group there to coordinate and guide pugs, you will simply have poorly communicating masses of people who 95% of have zero skills whatsoever, derping left and right.

It would atleast be the same on both teams.

Dismissing the OP statement as saying he's just wanting to roll PUG's is doubly illogical, because as he points out himself, half the time the PM is dragged down by the PUG. His argument of one of pointing out -- despite the histrionics from the bads who hate admitting it -- that the reason WZ suck is that PUGS SUCK..

It's being dismissed on behalf of being a load of bull. For that to happen they'd have to constantly end up with the worst players that have ever graced this game against either a premade their own skill along with decent pugs or 8 really good pugs. Isnt the OP in one of the best guilds on the server, if not the best guild? I highly doubt that he will queue with crappy players so I'm just going to assume that the majority of his premades are made up with players in or around his own skill. I have never lost a game while being queued or teamed with the best players on my main server so I can't imagine that it happens that often on other servers either.

 

I just have to ask here, what exactly is your (as in all of you) problem with premade vs premade and pugs vs pugs queues? So far I havent seen a single legitimate argument against seperate queues. Instead you're trying to justify the current system with some form of collective punishment where everyone suffers. As if thinking that having to play premades in pugs suck less just beacuse premades happen to suffer too. It doesnt work that way.

 

Now, if you were to say that the queue times would be really long I'd give you the benefit of doubt. Not that I believe that they would, or atleats not during primetime, but it would atleast be a valid argument. Another reasonable argument would be that the pug complaints would be exchanged for complaints from less skilled premades who now had to play the good premades in every game. They could probably argue that it ruined normal warzones and it probably would but they have the tools, the group and perhaps also some form of chat, to improve whereas solo players have to rely on luck, luck getting the right players on their team.

Most people get absolutely demolished by 24/7 players and hackers and give up before they have a chance to learn and gear up. And the recruit gear is not much help since it is so distinctive looking that they may as well have a 50 foot tall neon sign hanging above their head saying "focus fire on me for an easy kill".

 

And the end result is that in the end the 24/7 players are shooting themselves in both their feet by driving the new players away and they have to put up with 2 or 3 hours of waiting for a warzone to pop.

 

And having elitist pigs of 24/7ers who only say "L2P nub" rather than giving constructive advice for a beginner to get better will not help this situation.

if your gonna go to the effort of setting up a premade, there is a ranked warzone button you know.

 

when me and my buds go to the effort to do it, we do real warzones, not run around kill training the other team for little to no challenge.

Good, so you agree that premades should have their own queue separeted from pug queue =)

 

That would be the logical conclusion of his rant. I don't think I've seen a more ironic thread in this forum in 3 years.

Honestly OP, I don't see the problem in Premades, you get stomped and barely get 5 medals OR you can be on a premade team your self, and facetank about four people on your assassin get 14 medals and go grab a soda while you are at it. I could care less about getting stomped, cause I know my pot of gold will eventually appear. So why people complain is beyond me.

This only applies to those who complain about pre-mades ruining war zones for them. You fail to look at it from any other perspective other than your own. Here's the breakdown of the double edged sword.... Let's look at who gets shafted more, yet complain less.

 

Scenario #1: Pre-mades ruin war zones for PUG's on the opposite team by better communication, coordination and often skill. PUG's get wrecked and aren't happy, immediately log onto forums and click "new thread".

 

Scenario #2: PUG's are so poorly organized that they literally lose the game for the 4 man pre-made. Pre-made loses what should have been an easy win.

 

Scenario #3: 4 man pre-made and PUG on same team.... pre-made carries PUG team to victory. (They don't mention this in the list of complaints)

 

Scenario #4: PUG's carry pre-made to victory.... just kidding... that almost never happens...

 

-The other tidbit of information that often gets left out is that there are pre-mades in nearly every war zone, on both sides. The only difference is most of them are bad and it goes unnoticed. They don't mention that either.

 

-The PUG's who go idle in war zones to farm coms... don't get mentioned either in these lists of complaints.

 

-The PUG's who shoot down from the edge of their end zone at the warriors in the pit on huttball... also don't get mentioned.

 

-The PUG's that go on Rambo missions and do nothing but hurt the team... well... they don't get mentioned either.

 

-The PUG's that put up 50K in stats during a 15 minute voidstar.... no one mentions him in those threads.... but that's probably because HE IS the guy starting the damn thread.

 

So before you complain... think about who's really getting the worst of this situation.

 

My point in this is... the pre-mades (good ones) get screwed more often than you PUG's and WE'RE the ones doing the heavy lifting. It's amazing that so many of you can sit here and complain about pre-mades wrecking your face when 2 games later that same pre-made is getting you an easy win.

 

Want to solve the problem? Use the tools available... form a guild, form a pre-made and get better.

 

Disclaimer: I know there are good PUG's out there that understand the game and this post does not apply to you. However, you are the minority. The majority of guilds are awful and the PUG's are even worse on average.

 

In the end... I only hope that one PUG gets this to sink in and the next time they want to complain about pre-mades, they stop, and think... and realize that it's the ones who are putting forth the extra effort by learning to play the game properly, forming groups and organizing tactics and strategies that are far more affected by PUG's vs pre-mades than you PUG's who hop on twice a week for an hour before bed and spam force lightning while face tanking a marauder.

 

This public service announcement has been brought to you by UGLYMRJ.

 

The more you know... (Insert rainbow here)

 

Yet when us Puggers ask for a PUG only option you premades QQ a river over it because then you would have to play against other premades... Hmmm

Yeah... still lowbie... only kept my attention for a few days. Hard to find enough time lately with real life shenanigans. Getting married next friday.

 

Congratulations! I've got 3 more months to fart around and be a slob before the shock collar goes on.

 

On topic: I'd have more sympathy for the plight of PUGgers vs. premades if I didn't do mostly solo PUG these days; and didn't have a lot of time premading until my guild died. Voip's a nice tool but PUGs still have the ability to coordinate adequately and play as a well-oiled machine. Yet many don't. When I see PUGs playing to their potential and getting rolled maybe I'll listen to the gripes about premades.

Edited February 1, 2013 by Joesixxpack

Indeed, refraining from queing with pug teams would solve the OP's list of complaints. So....that is to say he may be agreement to not queing pugs with premades?

Afterall, it was clearly established that both pugs and premades ruin each others pvp experience, the same complaint from both sides.

It is only logical, if not completely obvious, to separate the two groups and thereby provide the best possible pvp experience for both demographics is it not?

 

Sounds to me like the exact same argument from both sides and can be resolved by separating the two groups.

I like it....a better pvp experience.....ahhhhh. Ugly, I'm sold and I agree with what you said. Separating the groups is the best way to handle this. Lets all work together and make this happen!!!

 

EDIT: Grats on getting hitched Ugly. Soak up the day AND the night, it goes by fast.

All the happiness to you and the Mrs.

Edited February 1, 2013 by WickedImage

I would actually prefer competition on a reglar basis and not only expect to get it when we have good enough team composition to form a rated team and fight the same 3 guilds on my server.

 

And the only expectation I have is the same one pushed on us by our parents and any role model... strive to be better. If people can't take that kind of logic into a video game I'd hate to see how well they perform in the real world.

 

Lol but it IS a video game,really get over yourself i have went against your smash premades many times,your not all that.

Best post here in a long time. I agree 100% with everything.

Lol but it IS a video game,really get over yourself i have went against your smash premades many times,your not all that.

 

Obviously not good enough for you to rage about me in every post you see me in for over a week... must be terrible.

EDIT: Grats on getting hitched Ugly. Soak up the day AND the night, it goes by fast.

All the happiness to you and the Mrs.

 

Thank you sir!

 

...

 

So before you complain... think about who's really getting the worst of this situation.

 

My point in this is... the pre-mades (good ones) get screwed more often than you PUG's and WE'RE the ones doing the heavy lifting. It's amazing that so many of you can sit here and complain about pre-mades wrecking your face when 2 games later that same pre-made is getting you an easy win.

 

...

 

In the end... I only hope that one PUG gets this to sink in and the next time they want to complain about pre-mades, they stop, and think... and realize that it's the ones who are putting forth the extra effort by learning to play the game properly, forming groups and organizing tactics and strategies that are far more affected by PUG's vs pre-mades than you PUG's who hop on twice a week for an hour before bed and spam force lightning while face tanking a marauder.

 

This public service announcement has been brought to you by UGLYMRJ.

 

The more you know... (Insert rainbow here)

 

 

Many of your points are reasonable and to a degree accurate. But you fail to see the whole picture. And we could swap such lists entire day and not get anywhere.

 

Nobody wants an easy win!!!

Being with a premade as a PUG is almost as bad as being in a PUG against a premade. Only that added feeling of win is what makes it better. And to many, that's not the most important thing, surprised, surprise. To explain that to someone who plays in a premade and thinks that's the only way to do it: we want better fights, not easy wins.

 

Why are you playing in a premade that enters an ordinary queue if you know you will almost certainly be matched against a PUG? Want an easy win?

If the answer is no, why is your premade in a normal queue? You have a separate queue for you and you are almost guaranteed a better fight there. Not enough premades? Make a thread that entices people to join premades, not a thread that criticises PUGs. Without PUGs you would get less WZs and let's not forget ... less easy wins. So be thankfull for PUGs.

 

Playing the game in a premade does not mean playing the game properly. It's an MMO. Any kind of group is "playing the game properly". Which means you don't have to play with your closest friends or your favourite group to satisfy this game's mission. Try it sometimes, you will find an entire world of unknown people out there.

 

Now, to explain to you why playing in a PUG is better than playing in a premade (which is the reason so many of us are doing it).

Because it's much more fun. You know, opposite of work or "must do this". Playing in a premade (I've done it) feels like obligation. You have to be there, do that, don't do this and many times play differently that you like or are used to. That by itself is not so bad, it adds a feeling of belonging somewhere and doing something meaningful. Which, on the other side, can be the biggest problem of premades. It takes away all the drama and spontaneity of the play. It doesn't have that unknown factor that is so sorely missed from MMO games, where most of the things repeat themselves constantly.

 

You guys have an entire separate queue for you. We don't.

Most people get absolutely demolished by 24/7 players and hackers and give up before they have a chance to learn and gear up. And the recruit gear is not much help since it is so distinctive looking that they may as well have a 50 foot tall neon sign hanging above their head saying "focus fire on me for an easy kill".

 

And the end result is that in the end the 24/7 players are shooting themselves in both their feet by driving the new players away and they have to put up with 2 or 3 hours of waiting for a warzone to pop.

 

And having elitist pigs of 24/7ers who only say "L2P nub" rather than giving constructive advice for a beginner to get better will not help this situation.

 

us elitist pigs give constructive advice constantly.

 

1. it is not listened to

2. bad players are the least receptive to constructive advice; if they werent then they would eventually stop being bad

3. people like you call us undeserved names, making us a) less inclined to offer advice to begin with and b) more inclined to tell you L2P.

 

 

 

i mean seriously, W T F do you guys want from us? you claim that you want more competitive games by removing premades. in reality that actually does nothing but hurt queue times.

 

you claim that the "elitist pigs" would rather beat the snot out of crappy PUGs than have real, brain-engaging competition. i PvP b/c there is nothing more fun than matching wits with another person and defeating them; im a massively competitive, confident, motivated person. those are the kind of people that make of the "elitist pig" community. you really think that i enjoy beating the crap out of someone who is barely more skilled than the AI? really? REALLY?

 

you claim that you want the gear disparity solved. that was actually addressed beautifully by bioware, /golfclap. now, if you actually participate in PvP you will be geared in no time (literally 5 days tops)

 

you claim that there is an abundance of hackers, which i am disinclined to believe. the only documented hacking i know of is in the lowbie bracket; who cares about the lowbie bracket? it is meaningless. ive never seen hacking in the 50 bracket, and ive been playing since before there was a 50 bracket.

 

what is left? its just excuse after excuse after excuse with this community. if you folks took even a tenth of the time you do whining about how bioware needs to handicap all the good people down to/below your skill level, devoted it to actually LEARNING the mechanics of the game, your class, warzone specifics, basic strategies, etc, you would actually become GOOD. and you wouldnt need to whine anymore.

 

im probably going to get some kind of infraction for this. <3 u mods :D

The ugly guy is right. I always pvp with friends (guilded and nonguilded) and we are on TS.

 

Hardly a premade, since every class and every gearset is welcome. But ok. Let's call us 'premaders'.

 

Just a heads up, to all you complaining people, who rather cry on the forums than take some time and patience to learn mechanics on this game:

It's always us capping in Novare when you are fighting away from the bunker, it's us that guard doors in VS and sidenotes in alderaan. We're the ones staying behind when the entire team dashes off to the "inc 1 snow"-call. We're the ones that going for help, when no-one in the team reacts to the "inc 1 snow"-call. And yes, we're pretty good in huttball as well. Well, we've been playing that for over a year now. You see?

 

Are we 'good'? Are we 'steamrolling'?

 

Nope, we're having fun, goofing on TS and saying 'ok, I need help on east'. (little sidetrack here: I don't call out in /ops anymore. Because the chance is nodes are left unguarded).

 

Yes, we have a lot of experience (long time players) and no, we don't like to lose when there's no reason to.

 

So. No, we don't have a problem carrying your chuck norris-wannabe, zerg mid-mentality, solo-medalfarming butts to a chance on victory.

 

Extra information:

1: we don't have enough players to play ranked all the time. We'd rather play ranked all the time, since our community agreed on 'no bubblepop' and only one smasher per team in ranked matches.

 

2: We hardly steamroll games. It's impossible with a premade of three or four. If the other four know how the game works, fine. Otherwise we're mostly fixing what others screwed up.

 

3: And frankly, we're not that good. We just know what to do. If you would too, you'd be complaining less about premades.

 

So in conclusion: if you're with a premade group, you can bet there's a lot going on behind te scenes, while you are mesmerised by your strive for damage numbers.

 

We all had to learn mechanics, and we sucked at warzones as well. It's ok. But please stop crying here and learn how warzones work.

 

Have fun, gg.

Edited February 1, 2013 by Ganjavus

Yet when us Puggers ask for a PUG only option you premades QQ a river over it because then you would have to play against other premades... Hmmm

 

When us puggers prefer to play in competetive WZ, when people try to win, not like 10-49 chaos brackets, lazy lolpugz call us elitists and tell us to go rank wz... Hmmmm

 

World is a crazy place. specially on the internet

It would atleast be the same on both teams.

 

Oh it would, would it? Let's assume that, tomorrow, all premades automatically face only premades, and only solo que people fight solo que people.

 

There will STILL be better players organizing teams, if only in wz chat prior to the match with some basic planning, and the masses of people who refuse to learn how to play properly will STILL be a disorganized mob. There will still be the times where 6 players on 1 team are valor 100 with aug EWH and 6 on the other team with recruit and the result will be the same.

 

Then people will begin screaming about gear gaps, and how queues must match on valor ranking or some other garbage, and the entire festering mess will begin again.

 

It's being dismissed on behalf of being a load of bull. For that to happen they'd have to constantly end up with the worst players that have ever graced this game against either a premade their own skill along with decent pugs or 8 really good pugs. Isnt the OP in one of the best guilds on the server, if not the best guild? I highly doubt that he will queue with crappy players so I'm just going to assume that the majority of his premades are made up with players in or around his own skill. I have never lost a game while being queued or teamed with the best players on my main server so I can't imagine that it happens that often on other servers either.

 

I'm not following this logic at all -- mostly , I suspect, because there isn't any. For every premade that is nothing but top ranked players, there are four or five who are like the premades I'm in -- good players but hardly elite; geared but not in some elaborately crafted and aug'd EWH with BiS tweaks; casual PVP'rs who simply learn their class and bother to call incoming and work as a team.

 

There seems to be this idea in some people's heads that premades are an elite class of killing machines, instead of the truth which organization + communication > derp + fail. Saying you won't lose games while playing with the top players on your server is not a counterargument to the fact that if you stick 8 crappy players into two premades with at least minimal communication and a plan, they will STILL beat 8 disorganized pug players.

 

I just have to ask here, what exactly is your (as in all of you) problem with premade vs premade and pugs vs pugs queues? So far I havent seen a single legitimate argument against seperate queues.

 

A single argument?

 

Let's leave aside the logical point that premade vs. premade queue is EXACTLY what many premade players have been asking for as well. Let's pretend that the problem won't be fixed for PUG's by that and such a move will only serve to drive people to form crappy premades or be stuck in a series of wz matches where even two skilled players who work together can still dominate a match.

 

My main problem with it is that it's a waste of damned resources. Splitting up the pugs and premades will result in two things: first, the premades that only play to roll pugs will just start solo queuing up en masse. There will still be a few of them in a match and if enough of them do it , especially on small servers, the situation may not change at all. Second, the premades that want a good fight against other premades will stop interacting with PUGS and trying to improve their play, which means that there will be even less chance people will pick up good play habits.

 

Instead you're trying to justify the current system with some form of collective punishment where everyone suffers. As if thinking that having to play premades in pugs suck less just beacuse premades happen to suffer too. It doesnt work that way.

 

No, I'm positing I could care less that people who refuse to bother to learn how to play aren't having fun. I've seen premades get their crap WRECKED by pugs who were composed of top players just using the in-game chat, seen a double four-man get rolfstomped into the ground by a due from Full Resolve and six other solid PVP guys, and seen plenty of premades get hamstrung by the 4 pugs dragging them down. You seem to justify the fact that we should give crappy players a pass due to the fact that because they are crap they get rolled, I say they get rolled because they are crap and refuse to coddle them. What, because people can't be bothered to run dailies and gear up we should nerf all OP's into candyland mode?

 

 

They could probably argue that it ruined normal warzones and it probably would but they have the tools, the group and perhaps also some form of chat, to improve whereas solo players have to rely on luck, luck getting the right players on their team.

 

Right, because the OP's point that getting four bad pugs along with your four man won't ruin your chances for a win.

 

The argument you seem to be making is that a premade only que would magically improve WZ. What others in the thread keep saying is that they will continue to suck as long as people don't step up their play, and instead of that being acknowledged, all we get is 'u guys r elitst u sux and liek 2 roll us pugs lollorz' ...

 

I almost wish they'd just do it, so we could see the next round of made-up garbage excuses as to why solo queue players continually underperform.

3: And frankly, we're not that good. We just know what to do. If you would too, you'd be complaining less about premades.

 

This. But they won't listen. It's clearly our fault for, y'know, playing with friends and bothering to learn to use our class.

Yet when us Puggers ask for a PUG only option you premades QQ a river over it because then you would have to play against other premades... Hmmm

TA knows the jig is going to be up.

TA talking nasty to Bioware's customers.

TA and co. are full of it, TA even named one of his Avatar excrement bypassing the word filter.

haha reminds me of these Leornard Cohen verses

"

"You say I took the name in vain I don't even know the name But if I did, well really, what's it to ya? There's a blaze of light in every word it doesn't matter which one you heard, the holy or the broken halelujah...

 

...I did my best, but it wasn't much I couldn't feel so I tried to touch I've told the truth,(LOL) I didnt come all this way to fool ya and even though it all went bad I'll stand before the Lord of Song with nothing on my toungue but Hallelujah"

Bad touches on the casual PUGS all around!

Well heres the thing in preferences they like to add a lot of boxes to click on or off stuff and Bioware could certainly put in one to toggle off joining any PvP matches that contain premades! of any denomination whether it be 2-4 or 2x 4-8 omai mai mai

..."She tied ya to a kitchen chair She broke your throne and cut your hair and

from your lips she drew the hallelujah"

Edited February 1, 2013 by mtsr

So I am a pugger to the extreme. I will not try and form a premade team for pvp because of too many reasons to list. I am only on a premade team when I get invited. Out of about 2500 matches, maybe been on a premade less than 40-50 of those matches. I completely agree with UGLYMRJ.

 

When I see that there are four ppl on the team who I assume are a premade, I give a sigh of relief that there are some competant ppl on the team that a) wont quit at the first sign of trouble (ever been on a match where your team had over 30 people on it?) b) will actually play the objective and not run around deathmatching c) will show you by there actions stuff you never seen before due to pugging (been pulled by my own team mates to safety on the brink of death to heal me up and then whispered "go get them").

 

The only issue I have with premades is the pugs. What do I mean? Several things. Pugs see its a premade on the other side. They quit due to this. The ones that do before the match starts don't bother me as much as those that do during the match. This is actually is 2 different things. Leaving to let some other person deal with the match or have 6-7 people defending a single node. When the latter happens I usually let the other team know what is going on and ask them to hit where there are 6-7 guarding or let me fight 1v1 with them since 6v1 isnt a challenge (but I do make a meta game of it if it does happen, I play "can I kill THAT person before the rest of the people standing around them can kill me).

 

I play almost always on the imp side on the Harbinger server. Some of the pvp pub guilds on there (who the hell is eating fried rice in the break area...sorry but it smells good at 4 am at work) are pretty nasty (good way) and I always know either we will get stomped due to (insert excuse/reason here) or it'll be competive until tactics take over. I watch what they do and ask myself why are they doing that? Ever attack someone and they dont attack back for about 2-3 secs and they are not CC then all of a sudden start attacking. Ever wonder why?

 

To all those who pug, ask yourself this...Do you have the same complaints when you are teamed with some of the top pvp guilds on you server going against the other faction? Do you have the same complaints when you know you are teamed with a 4 woman/man premade that was really 8 and the other 4 are on the other team? Do you have issues when some of the other people on the team are in pve gear or recruit while you are in atleast WH? I know that I don't. I try and make the game as fun as possible, no matter what that is given the situation that I am in, but that's just me.