I understand that DDs usually have long queues. I've played plenty of MMOs before and I don't mind waiting in line.

What I do mind is having to deal with petulant tanks and healers that can ruin my group at will. If they choose to have a hissy fit over whatever generally minute gripe they have they can simply drop the group and get another within a matter of minutes. There is no punishment for wasting the time of three other people. As a primarily DD it screws me the most as my queue is longer.

While it is possible to continue questing while waiting for a replacement people simply seem to not want to do this. If the tank leaves the healer is likely soon to follow and vice versa.

I don't play this game because I enjoy being at the mercy of the emotionally stunted. Please implement this relatively simple fix to the situation. Honestly this problem is annoying enough that I am finding myself less interested in your game.

On a related note, please have the queue finder check specs before allowing someone to assign themselves a role. I have had entirely too many issues with people queuing up as a tank/healer in order to gain a group faster only to in fact not be a tank/healer. A deserter debuff would also help to minimize or even erase this problem.

This issue exists with or without a group queue system.

You also cannot really just check specs. I have had Sages switch skill specs with the field skill reset droid to be the healer right after the queue popped. They can also be holding onto a second set of gear in their inventory for the alternate spec.

I disagree with the debuff, because it just punishes those who actually have legitimate reasons to leave group. What if the group is harassing 1 player. Should they be punished for wanting to leave?

I understand that DDs usually have long queues. I've played plenty of MMOs before and I don't mind waiting in line.

 

What I do mind is having to deal with petulant tanks and healers that can ruin my group at will. If they choose to have a hissy fit over whatever generally minute gripe they have they can simply drop the group and get another within a matter of minutes. There is no punishment for wasting the time of three other people. As a primarily DD it screws me the most as my queue is longer.

 

While it is possible to continue questing while waiting for a replacement people simply seem to not want to do this. If the tank leaves the healer is likely soon to follow and vice versa.

 

I don't play this game because I enjoy being at the mercy of the emotionally stunted. Please implement this relatively simple fix to the situation. Honestly this problem is annoying enough that I am finding myself less interested in your game.

 

On a related note, please have the queue finder check specs before allowing someone to assign themselves a role. I have had entirely too many issues with people queuing up as a tank/healer in order to gain a group faster only to in fact not be a tank/healer. A deserter debuff would also help to minimize or even erase this problem.

As a tank I can see your point. I don't drop groups unless there is a very valid reason. The only reason I have ever dropped a group is because I get ticked when I get a group and the DPS thinks they are an awesome hybrid and trys to do the tanking.

If your pugging and have set yourself to DPS don't get in and start every fight before the tank. Don't get pissy when I back off and let you tank and your getting your *** kicked really hard. The DPS job is to kill not control agro and show how awesome you are that you THINK you can do two jobs at once.

If the healer leaves oh well queue up and hope we can get another. But don't be one of those healers that throws one heal here and there but is wasting all your force/ammo/ energy throwing out DPS while the tank is near death and dies over and over because the healer wants to play DPS but get a fast queue. I will leave a group just as fast with a healer doing this.

Again I understand your position. Its valid but you have to understand that there are reasons a tank or healer will dump a group and find another.

I understand that DDs usually have long queues. I've played plenty of MMOs before and I don't mind waiting in line.

 

What I do mind is having to deal with petulant tanks and healers that can ruin my group at will. If they choose to have a hissy fit over whatever generally minute gripe they have they can simply drop the group and get another within a matter of minutes. There is no punishment for wasting the time of three other people. As a primarily DD it screws me the most as my queue is longer.

 

While it is possible to continue questing while waiting for a replacement people simply seem to not want to do this. If the tank leaves the healer is likely soon to follow and vice versa.

 

I don't play this game because I enjoy being at the mercy of the emotionally stunted. Please implement this relatively simple fix to the situation. Honestly this problem is annoying enough that I am finding myself less interested in your game.

As a player who runs exclusively tanks and healers, and who isn't "emotionally stunted" as you put it, the best advice I can offer you is to either learn to play nicely with others or to roll a tank or healer yourself. What I mean by the former is that, as a DPS, your role is to use CC if you have it, don't break CC, kill the right thing only after the tank pulls, roll Need only on things that you can actually use, and accept the pace at which the tank and healer are able and willing to progress through the content.

I cannot begin to count the number of poor performing DPS I've had in my groups that willfully violate these simple goals, even after being reminded of the role they've selected. And yes, I do boot them out if they don't shape up after the first reminder.

On a related note, please have the queue finder check specs before allowing someone to assign themselves a role. I have had entirely too many issues with people queuing up as a tank/healer in order to gain a group faster only to in fact not be a tank/healer.

THIS.

A deserter debuff would also help to minimize or even erase this problem.

You mean like the one that's already built into the LFG tool?

Don't they already make you wait 15 minutes if you leave a groupfinder group?

Edit:

As a tank I can see your point. I don't drop groups unless there is a very valid reason. The only reason I have ever dropped a group is because I get ticked when I get a group and the DPS thinks they are an awesome hybrid and trys to do the tanking.

 

If your pugging and have set yourself to DPS don't get in and start every fight before the tank. Don't get pissy when I back off and let you tank and your getting your *** kicked really hard. The DPS job is to kill not control agro and show how awesome you are that you THINK you can do two jobs at once.

 

If the healer leaves oh well queue up and hope we can get another. But don't be one of those healers that throws one heal here and there but is wasting all your force/ammo/ energy throwing out DPS while the tank is near death and dies over and over because the healer wants to play DPS but get a fast queue. I will leave a group just as fast with a healer doing this.

 

Again I understand your position. Its valid but you have to understand that there are reasons a tank or healer will dump a group and find another.

I'd sooner kick the healer and use my companion than deal with an idiot or leave myself. And they'd probably do a better job.

As a player who runs exclusively tanks and healers, and who isn't "emotionally stunted" as you put it, the best advice I can offer you is to either learn to play nicely with others or to roll a tank or healer yourself. What I mean by the former is that, as a DPS, your role is to use CC if you have it, don't break CC, kill the right thing only after the tank pulls, roll Need only on things that you can actually use, and accept the pace at which the tank and healer are able and willing to progress through the content.

 

I cannot begin to count the number of poor performing DPS I've had in my groups that willfully violate these simple goals, even after being reminded of the role they've selected. And yes, I do boot them out if they don't shape up after the first reminder.

It's people like this that make me really happy that I... typically ask if I'm doing alright, or if I can do anything better. If there's droids and it's a Heroic-style mission, I ask if they need me to CC a droid - who knows, if I CC a droid, and the Sage CCs an Engineer / medic, then the group can have a real easy time taking out the stuff.

I actually had a group in a heroic recently that one of the DPS guys (thankfully not me) charge head-long into any group of silver guys without waiting for the tank to go in first, or the healer to CC an enemy, or any of that stuff. Usually resulted in some really close calsl where I had to pull several guys off the Healer. As a DPS, that won't make me last long, but if I die so the healer lives, then it's worth it. Smart use of Force Camo saved my life more times than I can count with that group. Plus, the healer was a friend of mine, and I'm not going to have him die because of some gun-jumping guy.

It's people like this that make me really happy that I... typically ask if I'm doing alright, or if I can do anything better. If there's droids and it's a Heroic-style mission, I ask if they need me to CC a droid - who knows, if I CC a droid, and the Sage CCs an Engineer / medic, then the group can have a real easy time taking out the stuff.

 

I actually had a group in a heroic recently that one of the DPS guys (thankfully not me) charge head-long into any group of silver guys without waiting for the tank to go in first, or the healer to CC an enemy, or any of that stuff. Usually resulted in some really close calsl where I had to pull several guys off the Healer. As a DPS, that won't make me last long, but if I die so the healer lives, then it's worth it. Smart use of Force Camo saved my life more times than I can count with that group. Plus, the healer was a friend of mine, and I'm not going to have him die because of some gun-jumping guy.

If you're the type of person to care enough that you're doing alright to ask if you are... you're probably doing alright!

This issue exists with or without a group queue system.

 

You also cannot really just check specs. I have had Sages switch skill specs with the field skill reset droid to be the healer right after the queue popped. They can also be holding onto a second set of gear in their inventory for the alternate spec.

I disagree with the debuff, because it just punishes those who actually have legitimate reasons to leave group. What if the group is harassing 1 player. Should they be punished for wanting to leave?

 

100% agree!

============================

A main point I think should be considered is the fact that people are DC'n a lot more since 1.4 / 1.5...great source of uneeded punishment from that.

I would like to share another, though more tragic reason/example why this is a horrid idea:

Last week I was helping people with FP's and at one point one of the members told us he got a phone call and one of their parents had passed away and obviously had to log off, that person would be punished because of the debuff that the OP proposes.

100% agree!

============================

A main point I think should be considered is the fact that people are DC'n a lot more since 1.4 / 1.5...great source of uneeded punishment from that.

 

I would like to share another, though more tragic reason/example why this is a horrid idea:

 

Last week I was helping people with FP's and at one point one of the members told us he got a phone call and one of their parents had passed away and obviously had to log off, that person would be punished because of the debuff that the OP proposes.

so you take a 10-15min debuff? if they are harassing you, open ticket about them and in afew days they'll be hit with 1 day - forever game debuff. Justice will be your's you just need patience Grasshopper.

The Debuff is there for specific reason, to discourage those that would pay tank/heal to que with them to jump them in line in the Que and have tank/heal just leave after, its also there to discourage wasting of everyones time period. Taking a group then leaving right away wastes time of all people, thus game then ensures it wastes more of your time then groups.

Personally i think debuff should be more punishing, compounding over times you jump group. Now this would have daily/weekly limit and be reduced with each successful group you do. But true punishment to run up to account wide, so you can so "Hate this group" drop then switch to another char, rinse repeat.

100% agree!

============================

A main point I think should be considered is the fact that people are DC'n a lot more since 1.4 / 1.5...great source of uneeded punishment from that.

 

I would like to share another, though more tragic reason/example why this is a horrid idea:

 

Last week I was helping people with FP's and at one point one of the members told us he got a phone call and one of their parents had passed away and obviously had to log off, that person would be punished because of the debuff that the OP proposes.

The debuff is for 15 minutes after you leave the instance, whether or not you're logged in. I can't imagine any human would get the news of losing a parent and then play the game again within 15 minutes.

Just sayin'

The debuff is for 15 minutes after you leave the instance, whether or not you're logged in. I can't imagine any human would get the news of losing a parent and then play the game again within 15 minutes.

 

Just sayin'

I was thinking the same thing.

As stated it can serve as a two way street. I tend to heal a lot, one of my characters is a permanent healer and two of my other three 50's spend at least 50% of the time healspecced, and while I don't mind soldiering through a run that is going to be a little slower than normal, certain times that "it's a game don't put yourself through this" instinct kicks in.

1.Don't mind giving it a go with undergeared, we had a 13k dps guardian and a gunslinger with a level 46 barrel, not thrilled with the HM draw for those dps but c'est la: 13k dps guardian in kaon stands next to a bloated plaguebearer when he explodes leaving him low enough that an infected hunter 1-shots him, starts chewing me out for "No heals", -- dropped got into a nice average (i.e. columi not full BH) group that had a smooth friendly false emperor run. So much more pleasant then 'sticking it out' for the sake of doing so.

2.Got into a battle of ilum run and I see three members of the same guild, first instinct is to think "good this usually bodes well". Tank then asks if we can do all content since the other two need the gear. Would rather not personally (would have at least liked to skip bonus quest) but since he was up front about it agreed and we proceeded. No coordination, occasionally two people would trigger bunkers at once, despite the shadow tank actually being well-geared he had no sense of controlling threat so my sawbones was constantly running for his life, every time something went wrong he'd berate the least geared/experienced player (despite being a fellow guildie) for screwing something up even when it wasn't his fault. Mix in three different times where we had to stop for someone's 5 minuteish afks. A wipe right after blowing those three consoles and he again starts laying into the dps (who was not at fault). Despite being near the end by that point it just wasn't worth it.

These situations tend to be rather few, most of my experiences with flashpoints have been quite good, be it just friendly camaraderie or a group so well geared/versed that its like clockwork. Of the remaining runs most are still workable enough to make one's way through it and finish.

But there still are those runs where in all fairness one feels compelled to leave and it is nice having the capacity to do so.

15mins debuff is very generous I think, in WoW you'll get a 30min debuff instead. I'm leveling a Gunslinger and I love this system, 15min is so short it doesn't matter if you decide to drop group.

Sometimes I'll get a group with a fail tank/healer with aggro flying all over the place, or the tank not knowing where to go etc. I can simply put them on ignore, drop group, run my class quest line and be back in FP again fairly quickly.

Personally, I support a deserter debuff only for PvP play. I think for PvP it is integral to the spirit of PvP play. If you desert you group mates on the field of battle to be slaughtered by the other faction..... you deserve to be punished, and punished hard. At the same time... the game must account for DCs and not autoboot and punish for DCs (and yeah, I know that a player can pull their internet cable and fake a DC... but you probably have larger issues with this sort of player and will kick them anyway.

As for PvE.... NO. Yeah, you can get all manner of bad behaviors in any random group... but you know what... you random group... you take your chances. And frankly DPS can be just a bad behaved as tanks and healers... so there is no exclusivity in bad behaviors in MMOs. The best way to mitigate this is to group with people in your guild or people you know and regularly play with.

/2-cents.