How is making PS respecting the GCD and having a .25 GCD after activation would solve a problem with predation ? It lasts 15" if memory serves. You have more than enough time to activate PS even with the new GCD.

I understand you want to give BW the benefit of the doubt, but here the change doesn't serve any purpose and just make sins clunkier.

I am not a professional programmer, but my life knowledge of video game bugs helps understand that a possibility exists where the activation of two skills that dont obey the gcd could potentially have an issue with each other. Again, not saying tgis is the case, but smart enough not to dismiss it automatically without supporting information just so I can complain about my rotation.

I am not a professional programmer, but my life knowledge of video game bugs helps understand that a possibility exists where the activation of two skills that dont obey the gcd could potentially have an issue with each other. Again, not saying tgis is the case, but smart enough not to dismiss it automatically without supporting information just so I can complain about my rotation.

Yeah, sorry, but this is no way to reason. People are experiencing a problem and do not see why that problem was (purposefully) introduced. It's not too much to ask for further clarification, instead of declaring yourself smart for not dismissing the possibility that a theory you just invented yourself might be correct.

Some people might react more strongly than others, but do you think it's strange that people complain when something new hampers their enjoyment (to any extent) while they can't see why it does so?

Even if the end result turns out to be that nothing changes (back), that the measure was a necessary one, people should be allowed to voice their concerns. I don't understand why you're arguing about this. Do you think you're helping BW? Do you think BW is better off if they remain unaware that people (regardless of how many) are unhappy with something?

It's one thing to suggest a possible reasoning, to add nuance to the discussion, but your entire approach seems designed around the idea that there either is no problem or, if there is, people should just accept it. That's not constructive.

Yeah, sorry, but this is no way to reason. People are experiencing a problem and do not see why that problem was (purposefully) introduced. It's not too much to ask for further clarification, instead of declaring yourself smart for not dismissing the possibility that a theory you just invented yourself might be correct.

 

Some people might react more strongly than others, but do you think it's strange that people complain when something new hampers their enjoyment (to any extent) while they can't see why it does so?

 

Even if the end result turns out to be that nothing changes (back), that the measure was a necessary one, people should be allowed to voice their concerns. I don't understand why you're arguing about this. Do you think you're helping BW? Do you think BW is better off if they remain unaware that people (regardless of how many) are unhappy with something?

 

It's one thing to suggest a possible reasoning, to add nuance to the discussion, but your entire approach seems designed around the idea that there either is no problem or, if there is, people should just accept it. That's not constructive.

There is a reasonable way to present ones displeasure for a change that affects their enjoyment. A less condescending way would be to accept that the player doesnt know and understand all the details involved, while still being able to get their message across. Are people incapable of suppressing the knee-jerk reaction and actually having a civil discussion that generously invites open discussion from the devs? Apparently that is way too much to ask for by the crowd here. The playerbase cries about lack of communication, but alienates itself more and more with every post. Such irony.

There is a reasonable way to present ones displeasure for a change that affects their enjoyment. A less condescending way would be to accept that the player doesnt know and understand all the details involved, while still being able to get their message across. Are people incapable of suppressing the knee-jerk reaction and actually having a civil discussion that generously invites open discussion from the devs? Apparently that is way too much to ask for by the crowd here. The playerbase cries about lack of communication, but alienates itself more and more with every post. Such irony.

This thread seemed very civil and constructive. If there is any irony to be seen, it's that you are by far the most negative and complaining person in this thread.

Edit: Right, should not forget to mention 'the most condescending'.

This thread seemed very civil and constructive.

Civil - https://www.google.com/search?q=civil+definition&oq=civil+de&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0l3.3348j0j7&client=ms-android-att-us&sourceid=chrome-m

Constructive - https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-att-us&ei=ExvRW4b-H5PXjgSB5ozwDg&ins=false&q=constructive+definition&oq=constructive+definition&gs_l=mobile-gws-wiz-serp.1.0.0i131j0i7i30l4.3316.5421..6227...0.0..0.117.739.2j5....2..0....1.........0j0i71j0i7i131i10i30j0i7i131i30j0i131i20i263i70i249j0i13.2Dp3QG-67fo

Neither apply by definition.

Stop screwing up shadows with your clumsy fixes that don't fix anything.

So civil and constructive.....

Keep doing you, BW! I have not noticed any bugs in my shadow gameplay since this last fix, so kudos!

You mean except being launched halfway accross the map ? Or getting stuck in place ? Or bouncing onto something ? Happened to me since they "fixed" it. So yeah, kudos for that. As for your supposed predation bug, I've never heard anyone report it ever or with any other mouvement enhancing ability for that matter. So maybe you're not as annoyed as the vast majority of shadow players I've talked to in-game or here, and I'm happy for you, but the fact is it didn't fix anything.So making the rotation clunkier for a fix that doesn't fix anything is not worth it in my opinion.

just wanted to point out, that this change leads to a loss of 0.8 apm, which is a flat out dps nerf....

now its officially the worst melee tree with a clunky (nerve wrecking) rotation....

please tell us what you fixed and what justified this change which destroyed my favourite melee tree.....

this non communication is just frustrating and will lead to players being pissed....

you could easily avoid problems like this if you explain to the people what you do...

a "issue" is not much of a reason.

or would you explain anakin slaying the younglings with " he had an issue with his wife"?

just talk to your customers.. most of them arent that bad until you start pissing them off.....

You mean except being launched halfway accross the map ? Or getting stuck in place ? Or bouncing onto something ? Happened to me since they "fixed" it. So yeah, kudos for that. As for your supposed predation bug, I've never heard anyone report it ever or with any other mouvement enhancing ability for that matter. So maybe you're not as annoyed as the vast majority of shadow players I've talked to in-game or here, and I'm happy for you, but the fact is it didn't fix anything.So making the rotation clunkier for a fix that doesn't fix anything is not worth it in my opinion.

I dont think they fixed any if the issues you mentioned with this particular fix. Perhaps a fix for another patch. And i havent experienced any of the ones you mentioned since the last patch either. Doesnt mean they arent there, but means im telling the truth. Perhaps you were expecting something else be fixed, but thats your decision. It doesnt mean BW made a change for no reason.

I dont think they fixed any if the issues you mentioned with this particular fix.

Why would they fix a rare issue (if issue there is), but not fix the obvious one ? Come on, you're getting ridiculous here.

Perhaps a fix for another patch.

Well, it's about time, don't you think ?

And i havent experienced any of the ones you mentioned since the last patch either. Doesnt mean they arent there, but means im telling the truth.

Well, I was launched accross the map on the 1st pvp game I played the day the patch hit. And I've had the other issue happen as much as before.

Perhaps you were expecting something else be fixed, but thats your decision. It doesnt mean BW made a change for no reason.

Yeah. To be honest I've been expecting them to rework how PS works for pretty much as long as they introduced it. But I'm sure at this point it's more in the realm of dreams than anything.

You seem to don't mind PS respecting the GCD, which is fine you can do whatever you want. But you gotta admit it doesn't fix anything (except you mysterious issue you keep bringing up) and all that at the cost of a clunkier rotation. So it's not far fetched to ask for a revert to how PS was before 5.9.3, don't you think ?

Why would they fix a rare issue (if issue there is), but not fix the obvious one ? Come on, you're getting ridiculous here.

How do you fix a problem without having a working fix? If they havent fixed the launch bug, its very likely they havent found the fix without breaking something else.

You make it sound like they shouldnt fix any other bugs until they fix the launch bug, even if it takes years to fix it. So lets just neglect all other bugs for years, right?

Who sounds ridiculous now?

Its high time players realize they dont know everything and dont have all the answers. But i guess thats my pipe dream.

 

Who sounds ridiculous now?

 

Its high time players realize they dont know everything and dont have all the answers. But i guess thats my pipe dream.

for me the ridiculous things are the nerf without compensation and the lack of communication what they have "fixed"

if you are a person thats satisfied with answers like: " we dd it because reasons", its a pity, because you dont even want to understand stuff.

i dont give bw the benefit of a doubt anymore, they dont understand that this change is a nerf and they dont buff any other ability for compensation.

then you dont know what the "problem" was, why they did it.. you just have to swallow it.

i played infi in any content there is and i never ever encountered any bugs or glitches concerning PS in combination with a movement enhancing skill. only thing ever happened to me is the launch across the map thing, which wasnt fixed.

if it was such game breaking that it had to be fixed they could give us like 4 sentences which explain, why it had to be done....

but this Rko outtanowhere (my shadows name) eat that nerf is just not acceptable from a communicative point of view.

until they dont change anything my shadow will only be played if my raid team forces me to for certain bosses

How do you fix a problem without having a working fix? If they havent fixed the launch bug, its very likely they havent found the fix without breaking something else.

 

You make it sound like they shouldnt fix any other bugs until they fix the launch bug, even if it takes years to fix it. So lets just neglect all other bugs for years, right?

 

Who sounds ridiculous now?

 

Its high time players realize they dont know everything and dont have all the answers. But i guess thats my pipe dream.

You keep bringing up an hypothetical issue they may have fix with 5.9.3 as an argument to back your statement, but the thing is it doesn't exist. I've never encoutered it, never spoke to someone who did and never saw anyone report it anywhere. Granted I don't know all the shadow/sins players and haven't seen all the post about them on the internet. But this kind of issue never go that long unnoticed, particularly at the age of information we live in.

My biggest problem is not that they put PS on the GCD, yes it's annoying and made Deception a whole lot less fun to play, but if it really fixed something I could go with it. What is really frustrating is 1. it was not in the patchnotes (which according to Musco if it's not in the patchnotes it's a bug), 2. hasn't been acknoledged by BW as either a bug or WAD.

And about your other point, the fixing of the launch bug is easy enough. Just make PS not a dash, but an actual teleport. There's code in the game already for abilities like that so yes I think they really should fix that before trying to fix your hypothetical issue.

for me the ridiculous things are the nerf without compensation and the lack of communication what they have "fixed"

 

if you are a person thats satisfied with answers like: " we dd it because reasons", its a pity, because you dont even want to understand stuff.

Its been evident since MMOs began that companies will fix bugs without giving exact details because there may have been an exploitable aspect to them, or because it affected various aspects of gameplay. Again, we dont know if the actual fix fixed 100% of a different bug, and say 25% of the launch bug, with more areas that need to be cleaned up to fully complete the launch bug fix. But many here like to think and verbalize that they know what is going on, when they dont have a clue. Sadly they think bully mentality will help their cause, but inly makes them look less and less civil and constructive.

i dont give bw the benefit of a doubt anymore, they dont understand that this change is a nerf and they dont buff any other ability for compensation.

For all you or I know, they may have felt it was a necessary nerf for the fix they actually did implement. Hell, perhaps the bug was reducing our overall dps, so the fix improved it. All of the theory parsing thats been mentioned in this thread have only focused on the nerf to PS, but may not be aware of another skill/buff that was broken (and now fixed). Again, we dont know for sure, but im not gonna scream bloody murder about something i dont 100% understand, and make a fool of myself like others are.

if it was such game breaking that it had to be fixed they could give us like 4 sentences which explain, why it had to be done....

but this Rko outtanowhere (my shadows name) eat that nerf is just not acceptable from a communicative point of view.

It doesnt have to be a game breaking bug to merit being fixed. ALL bugs need to be fixed, but some bugs are found and fixed easier than others. Thats not hard to understand, is it?

You keep bringing up an hypothetical issue they may have fix with 5.9.3 as an argument to back your statement, but the thing is it doesn't exist. I've never encoutered it, never spoke to someone who did and never saw anyone report it anywhere. Granted I don't know all the shadow/sins players and haven't seen all the post about them on the internet. But this kind of issue never go that long unnoticed, particularly at the age of information we live in.

My biggest problem is not that they put PS on the GCD, yes it's annoying and made Deception a whole lot less fun to play, but if it really fixed something I could go with it. What is really frustrating is 1. it was not in the patchnotes (which according to Musco if it's not in the patchnotes it's a bug), 2. hasn't been acknoledged by BW as either a bug or WAD.

 

And about your other point, the fixing of the launch bug is easy enough. Just make PS not a dash, but an actual teleport. There's code in the game already for abilities like that so yes I think they really should fix that before trying to fix your hypothetical issue.

When you get hired on, ill expect it to be fixed first thing then.

For all you or I know, they may have felt it was a necessary nerf for the fix they actually did implement.

You're being delusional here, Deception was nerfed in 5.5, some would say in an underserved fashion. I was not playing at the time so I won't comment on that. Hatred was buffed in 5.3. So I'm pretty sure both spec were right were Bioware wanted them to be.

Hell, perhaps the bug was reducing our overall dps, so the fix improved it.

How ? Please tell me.

All of the theory parsing thats been mentioned in this thread have only focused on the nerf to PS, but may not be aware of another skill/buff that was broken (and now fixed).

The one and only other ability interfering with PS is Discharge and nothing changed since the supposed fix so I'm not sure what you're thinking about.

Again, we dont know for sure, but im not gonna scream bloody murder about something i dont 100% understand, and make a fool of myself like others are.

Look, to break it down for you there were issues with PS before the "fix". All the same issues are still here after the "fix". So it's fair to assume the "fix" didn't actually fix anything.

When you get hired on, ill expect it to be fixed first thing then.

Very funny. But unless you've not noticed, all the issue with PS are caused because the game handles very badly the dash. Being stuck in place, launched accross the map, bouncing off of something. Change how the ability works and you fix the problem. So it doesn't take a genius to understand that making it an actual teleport would fix a lot of issues.

You can put it how you want, trying to invent imaginary issues, the way they changed PS didn't fix anything, it only made sins clunkier. I don't know why you keep on trying to defend this change.

You're being delusional here, Deception was nerfed in 5.5, some would say in an underserved fashion. I was not playing at the time so I won't comment on that. Hatred was buffed in 5.3. So I'm pretty sure both spec were right were Bioware wanted them to be.

Do you have the internal data to support this? Neither do I, so your view is just as insignificant as mine.

How ? Please tell me.

 

The one and only other ability interfering with PS is Discharge and nothing changed since the supposed fix so I'm not sure what you're thinking about.

If you have any knowledge of coding, especially swtors poor coding, you would realize that a lot of their code was poorly written (admitted by them) and that its so intertwined that one bug can wrongly affect a different part of the game that was unintended. Again, the thread is blindly focusing solely on sins/shadows and the most known PS bug, rather than looking at the game as a whole, where a bug may be present when sins or shadows are in a group, or ops, or in pvp, etc. The bug to PS could have an unseen internal statistic change to crit chance when used with another movement skill (sin/shadow or other class). If you cant understand that there are bugs that a very small percentage of the population sees, or that may not necessarily affect the class causing it, you are naive.

There are all sorts of scenarios that could be presented as a reason for this fix that have absolutely nothing to do with the launch bug. In addition, if the bug involves two seperate classes, one who is knowingly involved (sins/shadows with PS), and an unannounced class, why would BW subject themselves to further criticism from class B who doesnt get changed? We both should know by now with the forumers here that if class B was, for example, sages/sorcs, that class population would cause an uproar for no reason even if they were not affected.

Look, to break it down for you there were issues with PS before the "fix". All the same issues are still here after the "fix". So it's fair to assume the "fix" didn't actually fix anything.

Do you get forwarded all of the bug reports? Are you a dev? Didnt think so.

Do you have the internal data to support this? Neither do I, so your view is just as insignificant as mine.

So you're implying that Bioware sometimes do things that don't make sense ? Like maybe putting PS on the GCD ?

If you have any knowledge of coding, especially swtors poor coding, you would realize that a lot of their code was poorly written (admitted by them) and that its so intertwined that one bug can wrongly affect a different part of the game that was unintended. Again, the thread is blindly focusing solely on sins/shadows and the most known PS bug, rather than looking at the game as a whole, where a bug may be present when sins or shadows are in a group, or ops, or in pvp, etc. The bug to PS could have an unseen internal statistic change to crit chance when used with another movement skill (sin/shadow or other class). If you cant understand that there are bugs that a very small percentage of the population sees, or that may not necessarily affect the class causing it, you are naive.

There are all sorts of scenarios that could be presented as a reason for this fix that have absolutely nothing to do with the launch bug. In addition, if the bug involves two seperate classes, one who is knowingly involved (sins/shadows with PS), and an unannounced class, why would BW subject themselves to further criticism from class B who doesnt get changed? We both should know by now with the forumers here that if class B was, for example, sages/sorcs, that class population would cause an uproar for no reason even if they were not affected.

That's why I said Bioware should communicate with the players to avoid situations like we're both in. If they explained why they did it, I wouldn't have had anything to say. As it is now you may be right or I may. I assume they did the change to try to solve the issue I know, which are not solved which is why I'm complaining. As it is now we have a supposed fix which doesn't fix the issue we knew about and Bioware not telling us they did it to fix another issue we didn't know so it's only fair to assume this issue doesn't exist until they say otherwise.

Do you get forwarded all of the bug reports? Are you a dev? Didnt think so.

Of course not, but when you play a class a lot, go a lot to the forums and talk with a lot of players of your class, you know a lot of things about it, even some less known.

On top of that, Eric said a while ago that if a change was not in the patchnotes it was a bug. And making PS respecting the GCD was not on the patchnotes which implies it's a bug.

So you're implying that Bioware sometimes do things that don't make sense ? Like maybe putting PS on the GCD ?

 

 

 

 

That's why I said Bioware should communicate with the players to avoid situations like we're both in. If they explained why they did it, I wouldn't have had anything to say. As it is now you may be right or I may. I assume they did the change to try to solve the issue I know, which are not solved which is why I'm complaining. As it is now we have a supposed fix which doesn't fix the issue we knew about and Bioware not telling us they did it to fix another issue we didn't know so it's only fair to assume this issue doesn't exist until they say otherwise.

 

 

 

Of course not, but when you play a class a lot, go a lot to the forums and talk with a lot of players of your class, you know a lot of things about it, even some less known

I think we have all made it very clear none of us have a clue what is going on, whether it was good or bad, needed or not needed.

I think we have all made it very clear none of us have a clue what is going on, whether it was good or bad, needed or not needed.

But the whole issue I have with is it that it respect the GCD which was not in the patchnotes ! The .25 delay after usage is fine, the only problem is the fact it respects the GCD. And as I said countless times, it must be a bug since it was not in the patchnotes so I'm asking Bioware to go back to how it was before. That's it.

I've actually reached the point where it feels so clunky now that I really am not even using the class anymore, and I've run a shadow since launch. This was the final straw... have it work as it did before.