I really like those changes.

Some rng is always good in game, but it is best if the most crucial things like max item level and set gear can be obtained directly, even if it costs a lot, so this way everyone can in reasonable time have gear needed to participate in opses, FPs or warzones without hindering their team.

I expect that rng on amplifiers will be what will keep min-maxers engaged for many, many months, experimenting and searching for best combinations with various sets and tacticals, while players that dont really need those will just grab whatever gets in their pockets.

And it is fine, this way everyone can get the more important things (set and higher item rating, as those give most important stats) in fast fashion and then can keep playing with the mods and amplifiers to get a tiny more boost for a hefty price - and those that cannot afford it (be it newer players or those with limited time) will not be left too much behind.

There is another PTS patch coming today that will make some additional changes to Spoils of War. Let’s talk about everything that is changing and why; I will also call out the portions that are in today’s patch vs what is coming later.

 

Thanks for your detailed update and willingness to address player concerns.

 

In addition, please mention when you can, for some future patch, when a given patch will fix the progression of Dxun so the raid can be fully tested. I want to run it again, but since we can't get past the eternally locked door after boss 4, nothing further can be done. I realize you're busy dealing with the gearing shenanigans right now, but please at least let us know when one of the patches will be addressing this issue.

 

Thanks!

Hey folks,

 

There is another PTS patch coming today that will make some additional changes to Spoils of War. Let’s talk about everything that is changing and why; I will also call out the portions that are in today’s patch vs what is coming later.

 

TLDR - Gear will now drop only for your current Discipline, random vendor will now always give upgrades (with proper targeting), and we are adding supplementary vendors that sell set bonus shells and tacticals for tech fragments.

 

Gear for My Main Only

As stated in my previous post we wanted to ensure that players had some capacity to gear off-stats or alts while playing. Your feedback has made it clear that getting gear drops that aren’t meant for your current character is frustrating, so we are changing it. But, we also want to give you the choice to get alternate gear as well. Here is what is changing on this front:

• All personal loot will now look only at your Discipline.
  
• All group loot only looks at base/Advanced Classes.
  
  • This is in today’s patch.
    

  [*]We are going to implement a toggle on your character portrait which will allow you to select what Discipline you want that gear to drop for.

  • Ex: You’re playing on your Operative as Concealment, but you really want to focus on getting Medicine. You can switch your toggle to Medicine and you will receive that Discipline’s gear instead of Concealment.
    
  • This will be in a future PTS patch.
    

 

Random Tech Fragment Vendor and Vertical Progression

The random Tech Fragment vendor’s intention was to be a supplementary way to get gear that would help protect you from a streak of bad luck. Since this vendor is also random it is leading to frustration where you use the vendor seeking an upgrade, and instead it is either for the wrong spec or too low of an item rating. We’ve addressed the gearing issue above, so let’s discuss receiving a lower rated item: Here is what is changing:

• Any item purchased from this vendor will now always be of a higher item rating than your character’s currently equipped item rating (this is not by slot, but the average displayed on your character sheet).
  
• This means the best use of this vendor is to spend fragments on whichever item slot has your current lowest item rating gear. This would effectively guarantee an item rating increase for that slot (unless it is at max item rating, of course). For example: if your currently-equipped boots are item rating 270 and your character’s average item rating is 274, and you buy new boots from this vendor, those new boots are going to be above item rating 274.
  

 

Just to reiterate, the ‘random’ vendor is intended to be a mechanism to help address “vertical” progression (meaning your path from the start of level 75 to max item rating). To address concerns about horizontal progression, such as getting the exact sets or tacticals you want, read on...

 

Working Towards Specific Drops, Not Random

Although the underlying system of Spoils of War is there, it is clear that there needs to be a mechanism to work towards getting the exact item(s) you want. Our intention is that this type of system would need to be supplementary, but the current solutions we have in place are not enough.

 

I want to add some clarity to a system that is already in place to assist with this. Each content type will drop specific gear types, depending on difficulty. Example: the final boss of Master Mode Flashpoints have a 100% chance to drop from a pool of mostly tactical items and some set bonuses for the group. They don’t only drop in Flashpoints, but if you are targeting a specific type of drop, you can hone in on it by running specific content. To be clear, Daily Areas, Conquest, Flashpoint, Operations, Reputation Vendors, Crafting, and PvP all will have these focused loot drops. Now, we may need to focus this more so that you have more control over drops, so please keep the feedback coming on that front. Also as a reminder, these are just bonus drops in addition to all of the personal loot you will get which can also contain any set and tactical item.

 

Let’s talk about what is coming next. We are going to add vendors to the game that will sell all set items and tacticals for Tech Fragments. This is not meant to be a primary source of acquiring the gear but it will ensure you can get exactly what you want over time. Since this is meant to be supplementary, expect higher pricing on it.

 

Kai Zykken will remain in-game as a vendor with his current functionality. His purpose will now be to have a random selection of items that will be at a reduced price from what is on the standard vendors. This still gives you a compelling reason to check his wares every week as you might be able to get exactly what you want, but at a reduced rate from what you would normally pay.

 

Since these vendors were not available in the initial implementation of the vendors and Tech Fragments, expect when they are implemented in a future PTS patch there will likely be a shakeup in Tech Fragments acquisition / costs. Again, this is not in today’s patch.

 

Thanks all! As always, this is not a comprehensive list of everything we are tracking and working on, so look for additional information as PTS progresses and keep your feedback coming!

 

-eric

 

 

For future updates just remember one simple thing - if a player plays on a spec he logged into it means HE WANTS TO GET GEAR ON THAT SPECIFIC ADVANCED CLASS he logged into. When player wants to gear up other spec or class - he relogs/changes spec on what he wants. Easy as that. No one likes to get random gear on characters player doesn't want to play.

Very nice changes!! Looking forward to future updates

Thank you for addressing many of our concerns with these fixes and going a step in the right direction! Adding the vendors, in particular, is greatly appreciated!

 

However, there was no mention about MODDABLE gear. Specifically, guaranteeing that moddable gear drops from endgame content, specifically Operations and PvP, at all levels of difficulty. I'd argue that this an absolute necessity for endgame/hardcore players so they can properly customise their stats as they progress through this gearing system.

 

Now with the addition of new tech fragment vendors, I believe that the tech fragment cap needs to be removed or significantly increased. Along those lines, the cost of Takanna's gearboxes should be reduced to coincide with the addition of the new set bonus vendors as well.

 

Also with the addition of these set bonus vendors, we need a more reliable way of getting modifications (that isn't reliant on the insanely expensive crafting system--or just make crafting cheaper).

 

While questions still remain as to how this horrible gearing system got implemented in the first place, I am glad to see we are getting some much-needed changes to this system. Keep this up and 6.0 will be amazing!

thank you thank you. Thank you for listening to us with the rng, this will make the game much much more enjoyable and taking the time to make a toggle is awesome and a good step. Hope you guys are looking at the cost for crafting but in terms of gearing through raids and such this is awesome and thank you.

I'd describe it as "somewhat less bad" myself.

 

Thank you. It seems that a lot of people have been conditioned to see the advancing of an undesirable system rather than an upheaval of it and return to what people were actually asking for as sweet nector from the gold post messiah. I won't lose sight of this, the gearing system is a mess and I'm not a fan of this game becoming a gimmicky Anthem because Anthem couldn't get loot gaming right either.

 

*clap clap* You guys made it less crock, but could you toss the rng and time gating crap too?

Great news, thanks for listening to the player's feedback. I'm excited and very hopeful for the future of our MMO.

Long live SWTOR!

Edited September 7, 2019 by AragarVarnus

It occurs to me to suggest that they've heard all the cries of "No RNG for gearing" and given us "Less RNG" and "Directed RNG", neither of which are "*No* RNG".

 

I'd really like for the Renown crates to never, ever do either of these things:

* Be empty.

* Contain one object, an empty green shell.

 

And before you say it, no, I'm not kidding. I saw both of these things the other day.

Sorry but some of us are ok, to some degree, with RNG. It actually does help level the playing field between players who have more playtime than others, as a preventative method of imbalance.

 

That said, a healthy balance of direct gearing and RNG gearing needs to be implemented - not all or nothing.

Edited September 6, 2019 by olagatonjedi

Great news! This one seems a step on the right direction. The new toggle option is great, that way I can gear mi sage as a healer while playing as DPS.

This patch sounds good, I will try later later, my hopes are comingo back, thanks dev team

It occurs to me to suggest that they've heard all the cries of "No RNG for gearing" and given us "Less RNG" and "Directed RNG", neither of which are "*No* RNG".

 

I'd really like for the Renown crates to never, ever do either of these things:

* Be empty.

* Contain one object, an empty green shell.

 

And before you say it, no, I'm not kidding. I saw both of these things the other day.

 

Upon reading the notes, my first reaction is agreeing with you 100%

The idea of RNG of this magnitude as a primary gearing system is repugnant to me in an MMO.

They've known for over two years, since 5.0, that we don't want it.

They spent nearly a year after the launch of 5.0 to get away from it.

Now they're running right back to it.

 

Only, with this patch, they've put so much sugar on it with the tweaks most people are happy with the results.

It's still the same horrible system underneath.

 

That being said, I haven't logged in to test the practicality of it yet.

 

But I will soon.

[*]We are going to implement a toggle on your character portrait which will allow you to select what Discipline you want that gear to drop for.

 

So far it's the best new thing implemented.

But, will it work for loot only or for Renown crates too? That's important.

Changes to vendor also look promising.

Also, can you guys raise cap of tech fragments to at least 30000? Seriously 3000 for legacy currency - is this a bad joke or something?

Also also, at this moment the Renown crates are too rare even for supplementary system. You should decide, if you want to get rid of it completely because now it's frustrating and useless or make it require at least 5x less exp.

And please, please get rid of unmoddable gear and empty shells completely. These shall not be a thing. AT ALL.

Thanks for actually listening to our feedback, guys maybe together we will be able to make this gearing system somehow acceptable.

Edited September 6, 2019 by Kraysk

Did i misread or all mods are now RNG with no ability to choose by hand? (no direct mod vendor?)

Very great changes, great job everyone, very glad you making much need changes, this could be a great gearing system. Also just to be clear is the only one change for this patch the

 

"All group loot only looks at base/Advanced Classes"

 

, I still get tank loot when I have a DPS spec on hammerstation, have not tried RNG vendor yet

Edited September 6, 2019 by commanderwar

It appears the random item vendor is working as described. I my marauder I bought a set of 270 gear and then bought a set of 272. Nothing dropped that was lower, or even equal to, what I had equipped when I had all items at least 270.

 

When all were 272, the next full suit was 274.

 

And so on.

 

One stack of 9999 stims deconstructed 800 (or so) at a time got me up to a full 282 suit, with 2x 284 sabers.

 

Now, this is at a vendor where you get to choose what you get.

I suspect that out in the game, with drops from npcs, where you can't control which piece you get...it will take longer...possibly much longer

 

 

This is a very good version of horrible RNG.

 

But it's still horrible RNG.

 

 

 

The Kai Zykken vendor, however, still gives items out with item ratings all over the place. Since those are moddable, and the items from the random item vendor are NOT moddable....the end effect is you still have a TON of RNG that you have to deal with to get a moddable suit with the set bonuses you want.

 

Once again

 

RNG on top of RNG.

 

Not what we want.

 

Not what I want anyway.

Edited September 6, 2019 by Darev

Well, I just got a little less depressed with this new announcement. Thank you Devs.

 

Now please, fix the crafting debacle. If it goes live in its current state, crafting will be doa for most players.

If you are seeing either of these things from crates, that is a bug. A Renown crate will always give you an item and the only way a shell would drop is if it was a set piece. An empty green shell dropping would be a bug.

 

I actually believe both of these issues are addressed in this patch but I will verify.

 

-eric

 

Can you please say somethign regarding the RNG as well? nice you refered to last part of his post, but thing we all are concerned about is still rng.

Thank you.

 

People approach gearing like they approach accruing savings money, and it's good for the "savers" (small steady additions that accrue over time) to have an option that is fun for us, since "gambling" (high risk that may or may not pay off, but pay off in larger sums if they do) isn't our cuppa. A high price for the vendors is fine. It tends to take the same amount of time either way, I just don't want to rage quit frequently.

I don't believe for a second that you made all of these changes in the last few days.

 

Well played.

Ran Hammer vet with my 302 operative, got all 294 gear on first boss (4 pc at that rating), and mostly lower than my level gear on last boss, one piece was a side-grade. 2nd boss I got a couple at 2 lvl higher.

 

Gear RNG vendor is better - almost all my rolls were upgrades, and none of the gear items were for disciplines I can't use (mods are a different story!)

 

Gear vendor mods were extremely... dissapointing. I bought 9 pieces, 7 of them were tank, only 2 were for dps even though I'm rolling these on a Lethality Operative. edit: bought tons more mods from vendor, overwhelming majority are tank mods. this is not working.

 

Kai Zykken vendor seems a bit better regarding RNG, but this is the place where RNG makes the least sense at all. I'm still getting mostly rolls below current lowest gear item rating, some are almost 20 points lower. What this means is I'm wasting time refunding and re-rolling. This should be 100% RNG protection - 2 levels higher at least, with RNG chance for more. Rolling sidegrades and downgrades is pointless when you just refund and re-roll, wasting server and customer time & energy.

Edited September 7, 2019 by cibacrome

Let me correct something from my post. If it appears that you have an empty green shell in your stash, that is actually not a bug in of itself. The way that item works is when you pull it from your stash into your inventory it will then fill that item with mods for you based on your item rating and Discipline. Even though it looks like an empty green item, it is actually a great item to get.

 

The bug we need to address is that it looks like a very bad item in your stash and doesn't relay to you that you need to pull it to your inventory. We are working on a solution for that.

 

-eric

 

So more random randomness, got it. So if I want an item that will give me crit or alacrity or accuracy, and I have to make the disintegrate or claim decision without knowing whether the piece in my stash has the stat that I am looking for, and I won't find out if I made the right decision until after I have made it. In what world does that make any sense?

I had to check the calendar to make sure this wasn't no April Fool's joke. This seriously made me smile. Time to do the dance of joy: