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Is It just me? Are Scouts a bit OP?


mr_sim

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I know there is now a legion of scout pilots already ready to yell about how they fly tin cans that die far too easy how could they be over powered?

 

To that I do understand, however I feel that scouts die to scouts and not so much to Strike fighters or Gunships.

 

I also acknowledge that there are still more game modes and another class to come. So to BioWare I say this, Right now the scout is unquestionably the space superiority fighter and I believe they have an innate advantage at both scoring kills and gaining medals. If this continues we will see the other classes abandoned.

 

Furthermore I don't anticipate the bomber class to fair much better against the Scout either.

 

At first I though the scout needed even less health/armor/shields whichever, but I don't think that is the right course.

 

I now believe that what the scout needs is a reduction in firepower, I suggest not lowering the dps of their lasers(no change needed to rocket damage) but instead lowering either their accuracy or their range. I think best would be to have much harsher accuracy falloff curve as range extends possibly even having dps falloff as well slightly.

 

I think forcing the scout to be more of a Knife Fighter is what's needed, because in a starfighter vs starfighter gameplay, the scout currently is a "space superiority fighter" and the only class killing them are other Scouts.

 

common Bioware I know you like this game to be balanced so let's do that.

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I will say you see it the most in the hands of a skilled player. Both players being highly skilled Strike vs Scout the Scout will tear the Strike up thanks to its cooldowns (disruption shields + Blaster overload with Quad lasers= head to head everything loses and that's if they don't pick up Concentrate fire oh my with Concentrated fire your talk Mando damage done and none taken thanks to Disruption shield) and then just escape when ever they want Via Barrel Roll and insane booster strength.

 

 

 

http://dulfy.net/2013/11/16/swtor-galactic-starfighter/?link=dGEAAAEOAgcCBhoA6gDsAuAA7ADQAOAA4ALgAOA=

 

Try being something other then a scout and living through this or killing this if the person is a skilled pilot, good luck.

Edited by tunewalker
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I will say you see it the most in the hands of a skilled player. Both players being highly skilled Strike vs Scout the Scout will tear the Strike up thanks to its cooldowns (disruption shields + Blaster overload with Quad lasers= head to head everything loses and that's if they don't pick up Concentrate fire oh my with Concentrated fire your talk Mando damage done and none taken thanks to Disruption shield) and then just escape when ever they want Via Barrel Roll and insane booster strength.

 

Soooo if I'm reading your No Punctuation right.

 

You are saying that yes I should park my strike fighter because I'm an idiot to take on a scout with one?

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Soooo if I'm reading your No Punctuation right.

 

You are saying that yes I should park my strike fighter because I'm an idiot to take on a scout with one?

 

Funny thing I was agreeing with you and punctuation has little to do with the validity or strength of an argument. Also () are a form of punctuation, so I may not have much but I do have some.

 

What the post above essentially said was that because of their speed ability to use distortion field shields along with insane damage thanks to Blaster overload in combo with a crew ability essentially makes Scouts unstoppable killing machines, as Distortion shields make them 100% immune to everything a Strike can do for 3 seconds out of 30 and for that time with damage CD's up the strike will be dead with out ever landing a single shot.

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As a scout pilot, I want to say no, as there certainly are tactics that take me down pretty quickly. My best advice would be 2 or 3 gunships coordinating fire, if you are dealing with scout spam anyway. Try to drag them into long fights and get them fixated so that someone else can kill them. There may very well be some validity to what you're saying, I don't know, I may have to try flying Strikes myself (I'm a Flashfire pilot first and foremost), and see if I can use what I've learned to come up with some effective anti-scout tactics. Hopefully, some of the Imps on Harbinger will hear of these so they can put up a decent fight from time to time :p
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I find scouts easier to take out in my gunship than strikers.

 

I find it easier to farm requisition in my scout.

 

I can do more damage overall in my gunship, but only if the rest of team is competent. I usually start in a scout and then if the team seems solid, I'll switch to gunship.

 

With a scout I can fly all over the map, taking on targets of opportunity and easily disengaging if things get too hot. Likewise, if a node suddenly starts losing turrets, I can get there faster.

 

1 on 1 vs a striker, I'll usually die in my scout ship... but I don't have to do a 1 on 1 if I don't want to. I think that's the 'OPness' of the scout - not that they're better damage dealers or better in a fight, but that they get to choose which fight they're in.

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Blaster Overcharge is the best ship ability in the game (imo). Distortion field is really good against lasers and only comes on scouts and gunships. Sabotage probe is a very good missile.

 

I personally use distortion field on my IL-5, but since I only trust myself to cap nodes, I don't use blaster overcharge. I use booster recharge. I also use cluster missiles, preferring the quicker dps to the sabotage probe and its long lock-on timer.

 

Pros: Scout is the best ship for capturing nodes, holding nodes (weaving satellites), and killing gunships. With Booster Recharge, it can get anywhere in the map at any time. However, if you use blaster overcharge, a scout can hold its own against any strike, especially with sabotage charge, but then it lacks the map range that is a "pro" of a scout. A scout can outmaneuver any other ship in close combat. It can outrun any ship, especially if it has booster recharge.

 

Cons: A speed scout (no blaster overcharge; has booster recharge) lacks firepower by a lot. It takes a long time to kill a strike or a gunship with defense upgrades. Its very difficult if the strike has quick charge shields fully upgraded with 60% recharge when taking damage. It simply does not eat through the shield quick enough. It lacks hard hitting missiles.

 

I would prefer to use a strike. It has greater defense and firepower. I am always amazed at how quickly I can kill things whenever I use a strike class. I have more kills with a strike on average. I personally can't trade in the booster recharge and the ability to be anywhere on the map in order to save a cap or capture. My kill number average range on a strike is 8-10. On a scout it is 5-8. It's the flip of these numbers for assists. I get a lot of assists on my scout because it takes so damn long to kill anything, but on my strike, I can kill things in a third of the time.

 

In the end, I don't think the scout class needs a nerf. It is already a slog to kill the other classes. The only thing that is overpowered is Blaster Overcharge. It may need a slight nerf, but a scout already gives up enough when it can no longer actually "scout".

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In a 1v1 turning dogfight sure the advantage goes to the scout. The simple counter is for strikers to team up. They have the shields so one can draw the scout's fire while the other shoots them down. I've primarily played the striker (recently unlocked the flashfire & am trying to bring it up to par for variety) and I've shot down a fair few scouts. When they run if my objective was defend/attack a sat I let them run since shooting them down won't help the team as much as the sat.

 

Without tactics yes scouts are OP. With tactics they're balanced. Remember this is a team game not Rambo-in-starfighters.

 

EDIT: I should also add I've been focusing on upgrades that help my striker perform in turning dogfights so even though I can't turn as tight as a scout I can fly them to a stalemate (my shield upgrades allow me to take whatever they might have a chance to dish out). If I don't shoot them down usually I end up being the bate that lets someone else shoot them down (and using my ion cannons helps speed up that process if I can't shoot them down myself).

 

Like with gunships I try to avoid locking missiles early since that gives scouts time to run, normally I open with ions, switch to quads and if they're still alive try to nail them with a missile while they flee.

Edited by Gavin_Kelvar
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Scouts are useless in the hands of players who can't pilot them. Those that can still may fall easily to attacks of opportunity. If he's not actively boosting or LoSing, he's railgun fodder. If he slows down for a second to hit his target better, he's blaster cannon fodder. If he flies around in the middle of a firefight, he's missile fodder.

 

I'm primarily a Scout pilot, but I run all ships for bonus fleet req, and Scouts are almost always my preferred target - whenever I'm running a Gunship, or a Striker.

 

On the Gunship, awareness is my weapon against them. Always look around between shots, change positions between kills. If you see him approaching, chill, when he starts lining up his shot, reflect shield, railgun/scatterblaster. The only ones that don't die right away are those sporting good upgrades, or that activate Distortion. But they're still forced to break off where you can either pick them off, or create distance with barrel roll engine.

 

On my Striker - power to shields, engine specials, cluster missiles by cooldown, hit them with Ion cannons whenever I get the chance - Energy drain is great.

Edited by Helig
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All of you saying no the leader boards disagree with you, all of the top damage done, all to kill streaks (kills with out dieing) assist+kills on the leader boards were done by scout pilots save for 1 Gunship in the mix. The average Scout pilot is balanced but the moment you put a really good pilot into an upgraded scout, you have essentially created an un-killable wrecking ball, thanks entirely to speed, maneuverability, defensive CD's, and Offensive CD's. Distortion Field is the most OP shield because when upgraded it makes the scout un-killable for 3 seconds, and Blaster Overcharge increases Dps to the point that almost nothing can survive it for more then 2 seconds if the pilot has his power to blasters and is a good shot.
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If memory serves me a flashfire have been shot down by another scout no more than four times, but I have been killed by a strike at least a dozen times either from missiles or getting ion blitzed with the engine drain upgrade. And I'm not even going to go into the number of times I've been killed by a gunship slug.
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All of you saying no the leader boards disagree with you, all of the top damage done, all to kill streaks (kills with out dieing) assist+kills on the leader boards were done by scout pilots save for 1 Gunship in the mix. The average Scout pilot is balanced but the moment you put a really good pilot into an upgraded scout, you have essentially created an un-killable wrecking ball, thanks entirely to speed, maneuverability, defensive CD's, and Offensive CD's. Distortion Field is the most OP shield because when upgraded it makes the scout un-killable for 3 seconds, and Blaster Overcharge increases Dps to the point that almost nothing can survive it for more then 2 seconds if the pilot has his power to blasters and is a good shot.

 

LoL distortion field is available to everyone.

 

Also

really good pilot into an upgraded scout, you have essentially created an un-killable wrecking ball

and

pilot has his power to blasters and is a good shot.

 

I have never heard anyone say a class is overpowered because the top teir of players wreck scrubs with it.

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LoL distortion field is available to everyone.

 

Also

 

and

 

 

I have never heard anyone say a class is overpowered because the top teir of players wreck scrubs with it.

 

it is not available to strike pilots, and what I am saying is a Top teir Scout pilot vs a Top tiered anything else Pilot the Top tiered scout pilot will destroy every single time with not even a spec of damage done to its paint job. If top teir vs top tier is unbalanced than the class is unbalanced since all classes should be balanced across all skill levels. This is not the case.

Edited by tunewalker
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It's just you.

 

I fly a scout almost exclusively, and I die to all three ship types. Gunships kill me if they see me before I see them, Strike Fighters kill me if I assault or try to hold a capture point, and scouts kill me if I try to run.

 

Now, I also kill all three. I kill gunships if I see them before they see me, Strike Fighters if I catch them in the open, and Scouts if they try to run.

 

All in all, I would say all three are pretty balanced.

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I feel like I'm seeing agreement to the point I'm trying to make:

 

Scout are out of balance, and other classes risk abandonment because of it.

 

you've said:

- best way to kill a scout is team up agreed this is simply true with any class as well. However it's also true if scouts team up and If more and more are flying scouts that means that you need to generate a lot of 2-1 odds to keep up with them. Also I could bring up the 4 man que limit but that's for another thread.

 

-Scouts can buff into near invulnerability for short periods. So that means much higher odds above even when entering a head to head fight. In simple starfighter theory a "scout" should have to jink in a head on head to survive it, but not here just buff your shield sand buff your lasers and fly dead straight. This is a problem.

 

-Scouts have the most control of when they do or do not have to fight This one makes sense it's as it should be, this should be the primary and really only advantage to scout class. Sadly it seems to be one of many.

 

What I see is Scouts are at the top of the food chain. In my play I encounter this problem or that and think of which class and build is best for defeating it, then someone just tells me they can solve it with their fairly generic scout build and dodge their way in and take out the problem.

 

So it feels like other classes are less relevant. Personally I don't like flying scout it doesn't fit me, the only thing keeping me in my strike fighter is the fact that I can still enjoy flying even if it father down the boards. If GSF develops into more team vs team or everyone does go all scouts all the time, these balances must be addressed.

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it is not available to strike pilots, and what I am saying is a Top teir Scout pilot vs a Top tiered anything else Pilot the Top tiered scout pilot will destroy every single time with not even a spec of damage done to its paint job. If top teir vs top tier is unbalanced than the class is unbalanced since all classes should be balanced across all skill levels. This is not the case.

 

Well considering I play a scout and I get shot down by strikes way more than I get shot down by other scouts. I will also point out that the leaderboards are comprised of one-in-a-million matches - I have played with some of those players and they don't get half as many kills on a regular basis.

 

To me gunships are overpowered because 70% of my deaths are from them, I also think many skilled dogfighters gravitate to scouts particularly flashfires b/c its a craft that is entirely dependent on the pilots skill for both its survivability and kills rather than the other two which depend on cheap tricks like missiles and railguns.

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Well considering I play a scout and I get shot down by strikes way more than I get shot down by other scouts. I will also point out that the leaderboards are comprised of one-in-a-million matches - I have played with some of those players and they don't get half as many kills on a regular basis.

 

To me gunships are overpowered because 70% of my deaths are from them, I also think many skilled dogfighters gravitate to scouts particularly flashfires b/c its a craft that is entirely dependent on the pilots skill for both its survivability and kills rather than the other two which depend on cheap tricks like missiles and railguns.

 

And I play on a server where I have seen a couple of skilled Scout pilots average 50k damage done a game with 12-20 kills and 0-3 deaths (the only time they die is when I take to head-hunting them with 2 other pilots with me a good 15-20KM away from the node because they draw us out there and it takes the 3 of us a good minute to even land a shot on the guy between retro-thrusters the evasion Companion ability and the evasion shields constantly breaking missles locks and evading laser fire).

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And I play on a server where I have seen a couple of skilled Scout pilots average 50k damage done a game with 12-20 kills and 0-3 deaths (the only time they die is when I take to head-hunting them with 2 other pilots with me a good 15-20KM away from the node because they draw us out there and it takes the 3 of us a good minute to even land a shot on the guy between retro-thrusters the evasion Companion ability and the evasion shields constantly breaking missles locks and evading laser fire).

 

I smell large quatitiies of L2P. On a strike one hit from ion completely destroys a Scout's shields and two blaster hits to the scout's nonexistent hull are fatal. The only thing that keeps a scout alive is its pilot's skill. Peroid. If the scouts are not being shot down its because they are being attacked by lesser players.

 

You could also roll a gunship and just laugh while you one-shot the scouts from 15km away

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I smell large quatitiies of L2P. On a strike one hit from ion completely destroys a Scout's shields and two blaster hits to the scout's nonexistent hull are fatal. The only thing that keeps a scout alive is its pilot's skill. Peroid. If the scouts are not being shot down its because they are being attacked by lesser players.

 

You could also roll a gunship and just laugh while you one-shot the scouts from 15km away

 

I usually average around 30-40k damage done and around 8-16 kills in my strike with an average of 50% accuracy. The problem is the Evasion stat. Passive Evasion=34%+ 30% during retro thrusters which can be used quite often 64% chance to miss even if dead on, 34%+15% from companion ability once every minute for 15 seconds makes 49% chance to miss even if dead on add the 30% in from when retro thrusters are used to break missle locks instead of LOS and that's a 79% chance to miss. Of course every 30 Second the target becomes immune to all forms of attack, and can decide to out range the entire group for any time when these things are not up.

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I usually average around 30-40k damage done and around 8-16 kills in my strike with an average of 50% accuracy. The problem is the Evasion stat. Passive Evasion=34%+ 30% during retro thrusters which can be used quite often 64% chance to miss even if dead on, 34%+15% from companion ability once every minute for 15 seconds makes 49% chance to miss even if dead on add the 30% in from when retro thrusters are used to break missle locks instead of LOS and that's a 79% chance to miss. Of course every 30 Second the target becomes immune to all forms of attack, and can decide to out range the entire group for any time when these things are not up.

 

there are passives that boost accuracy there are companions with both passive accuracy boosts and accuracy cooldowns. USE THEM

 

Oh there are companions that reduce target's maneuverability by 20% for 20 seconds, now that's a I WIN against a scout.

 

Otherwise than your no better than the guys in ground pvp saying tanks need to be nerfed because they (dps) are entitled to kill everything they target.

 

Also strikes have this crazy BS known has one-shotting peoples shields and draining engine power at the same time with IC, and then two shotting my hull with quads. Seriously every scout lives in terror of being one or two shotted at any given time. Did I mention that concussion missile frigging ignore shields and go straight to my hull? And PTorps are a one-shot kill on a scout.

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there are passives that boost accuracy there are companions with both passive accuracy boosts and accuracy cooldowns. USE THEM

 

Oh there are companions that reduce target's maneuverability by 20% for 20 seconds, now that's a I WIN against a scout.

 

Otherwise than your no better than the guys in ground pvp saying tanks need to be nerfed because they (dps) are entitled to kill everything they target.

 

Also strikes have this crazy BS known has one-shotting peoples shields and draining engine power at the same time with IC, and then two shotting my hull with quads. Seriously every scout lives in terror of being one or two shotted at any given time. Did I mention that concussion missile frigging ignore shields and go straight to my hull? And PTorps are a one-shot kill on a scout.

 

You haven't flown that many strike classes have you. there is no Accuracy boosting ability that the Strike can use only one that drops evasion by 20% but it is extremely rarely taken by any one and even with 20% drop that 79% still is 59% miss chance or 69% is still 49% or 49 is still 29%. If you take that one that drops evasion by 20% you can not take Servo Gammers and if you do take it all they have to do is out run you for 20 second don't use their evasion moves just run and then come back with their evasion moves up meaning its useless against the pilots I am talking about.

 

Concussives only pierce 30% shield Proton torps have a 100% shield and armor Peirce and only do 860 Damage that is not a one shot you will live through that, it also takes 4 seconds to Lock on and only has a 12 degree firing Arc. Upgraded distortion field breaks missiles locks and so does LoS and so does range and so does retro thrusters.

 

Only the first strike has access to Ion Cannons and again with the evasion of the pilots I am talking about a good 80% of those shots aren't landing, by the time one lands you are already dead.

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You haven't flown that many strike classes have you. there is no Accuracy boosting ability that the Strike can use only one that drops evasion by 20% but it is extremely rarely taken by any one and even with 20% drop that 79% still is 59% miss chance or 69% is still 49% or 49 is still 29%. If you take that one that drops evasion by 20% you can not take Servo Gammers and if you do take it all they have to do is out run you for 20 second don't use their evasion moves just run and then come back with their evasion moves up meaning its useless against the pilots I am talking about.

The star guard is my second ship, and I don't even bother with that cheap tricks known as gunships and pikes.

 

Your weapons have accuracy boosts in their upgrade tree no? IC has one first teir. And I was giving you a list of things to counter with. As for scouts outrunning you, well no frigging kidding they are paper ships did think they are supposed to be slow?

 

Concussives only pierce 30% shield Proton torps have a 100% shield and armor Peirce and only do 860 Damage that is not a one shot you will live through that, it also takes 4 seconds to Lock on and only has a 12 degree firing Arc. Upgraded distortion field breaks missiles locks and so does LoS and so does range and so does retro thrusters.

PTorps have what 20% crit chance? And they crit for like what? MY ENTIRE HULL. And all your posts can be solved by nerfing distortion field not scouts (I don't run distortion, I run quick charge for the engine bonus)

 

Concussion still does 30% to hull and completely wreck my shields leaving me vulnerable.

 

Only the first strike has access to Ion Cannons and again with the evasion of the pilots I am talking about a good 80% of those shots aren't landing, by the time one lands you are already dead.

The second strike is a long range missile ship if your trying to close quarters dogfight with it your going to be wrecked, its like trying to melee on a commando.

 

Strike power comes from their heavy weapons, you don't have to track your targets you just blow them out of the sky. Scouts are a pure dogfighter, we have to track and follow targets, so if you die us you died because you got outplayed.

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I do not believe that any class is OP including scouts. what i believe is that GSF in general has a much higher learning curve than the rest of the game. I also believe that it is far to early to say one class is more OP than another since it is a very rare person that actually is really good! i suggesst that before we call any class OP we should all L2P alot better. this isnt a slam against anyone so to speak this is based on the fact that even to this day, and i have played ALOT of GSF, that i still learn new tricks and ways to do better on my ship of choice.

 

I think it is far to early and the learning curve is far to steep to make a judgement call on whether or not a class of ship is OP or not

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