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Stormcaller target switch bug?


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Ok, so here is the deal. Last night, my ops group went in to do EC weekly. I was tanking stormcaller and all went smoothly. Then on the second or 3rd shield phase, I was runing around placing the stuff on the ground and suddenly, stormcaller switches targets from me to a dps and the whole team wipes cause he places the electric thing inside the shield where everyone is. I've never seen that happen before and after 2-3 tries with this happening, we finally got a "normal attempt" on the bosses and we killed them.
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We had a similar thing happen to us on denova nim, i was on the ground before shield phase dodging the lightning things. And when we entered the shield phase, the tank who was kiting dropped two to ground, and had a couple of seconds of lag. So the stormcaller targeted me instead, and we got the third one under the shield, wiping the firebrand side.

Only time that happened though, so think it was only due to lag.

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I've had this happen numerous times while tanking and while dpsing. I noticed that Stormcaller will swtich to a DPS not matter what unless someone does their aggro dumb or the tank taunts. (I heard something about something that Stormcaller dumps aggro during DD, but I could have heard wrong).

 

I even stood on the tank until it blew me off and it STILL swtich to a dps, everytime I had to get aggro back. :/ idk what it is, but this happened to my dps getting aggro way before the 1.5 patch.

 

Maybe see if you should put in a ticket?

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Part of it is that your MDPS on Stormcaller uses DoTs. When Stormcaller hits Defensive systems, it's an immediate aggro wipe and it must be re-taunted. If there's still a Cauterize ticking on Stormcaller, it'll pick up the DPS immediately.

 

If you don't maintain aggro on Stormcaller by doing more than just a single taunt, two ticks of Cauterize will put the DPS aggro over yours.

 

Solutions:

 

Don't just kite the pillars, shoot Stormcaller once or twice. Furthermore, you may need to re-taunt.

 

Make sure your DPS know to not leave DoTs on Stormcaller from about X3% onwards. Storm engages Defensive systems at 80, 60, 40, and 20. Don't leave dots that will tick past those amounts, so don't put a dot on it after 83, 63, etc.

 

We've had flawless runs in both story and hard modes once we started managing our strategy on Stormcaller appropriately.

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There isnt an agro dump, it is just the dps building more threat then the tank. I am sure you're not doing a tank swap (very rarely will there be agro problems after the first swap), so just make sure the tank on stormcaller taunts while leaving the tank... it isnt a big issue, but for some reason tanks dont like to use their taunts much...
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There isnt an agro dump, it is just the dps building more threat then the tank. I am sure you're not doing a tank swap (very rarely will there be agro problems after the first swap), so just make sure the tank on stormcaller taunts while leaving the tank... it isnt a big issue, but for some reason tanks dont like to use their taunts much...

 

I'm pretty sure there's an aggro dump in there somewhere, even if it's partial. We have had huge issues with our DPS ripping aggro on Stormcaller just after DD and right before/after Defensive systems - even with taunts being used. The strategy as I described above has solved most of these issues for us.

 

Anecdote:

 

Once, on my sent, I didn't DPS on Stormcaller from 90% on, and hit stealth during that time, to see if I could have as low a threat level as possible before the first defensive systems phase. (This was obviously in a story mode) .. I dropped one Cauterize on the boss just before the shield dropped, and I ripped aggro off the kiting tank. This tank had used a taunt just seconds before and should've been at the top of the aggro chart. When the taunt wore off it immediately went to me even though I hadn't dropped a single attack onto the tank for 9% of the fight's health. I should NOT have been able to instantly climb to the top of the aggro table with one tick of damage, but there you go.

 

Difficulty: I was also guarded, and had been half-donkeying my DPS before then, not running max rotation.

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I don't think there is an aggro drop here at all. I ran this last night and much like every other time while im kiting the lighting spires around the dps in the shield on SC side killed the adds in about 4 gcd's and strarted dpsing SC from the shield. I did not lose aggro. I did not taunt. I do however think that SC does have a lower aggro table than most other bosses in game tho. It seems like many people have issues with this tank.
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I don't think there is an aggro drop here at all. I ran this last night and much like every other time while im kiting the lighting spires around the dps in the shield on SC side killed the adds in about 4 gcd's and strarted dpsing SC from the shield. I did not lose aggro. I did not taunt. I do however think that SC does have a lower aggro table than most other bosses in game tho. It seems like many people have issues with this tank.

 

The thing is, we've been told by experience and the developers that the threat table in boss encounters is a linear progression - 1000 threat is 1000 threat, 10k is 10k. Healing is, IIRC, 0.75% of DPS threat per point (or thereabouts, which is way too high) and tanking is 200% of dps when in tank stance and not using multiplier attacks.

 

If the tank is popping taunts (which put the tank at 100% of the highest current threat on the target) and continuing to hit attacks, they should never lose threat. Provided, of course, that the tank's DPS is at least 50% of the top DPS before multiplier attacks. I don't know many tanks that aren't at least 1000 DPS for their rotation, and a top DPS is not 2000DPS.

 

If there's no DPS or no healing occurring on the fight, and the tank loses aggro in spite of taunts or aggro multipliers, there's gotta be a dump somewhere even if the mechanic is hidden. The fact is that Stormcaller frequently drops tank aggro to a DPS. We just don't know if it's intended (hidden mechanic-driven) or a bug.

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On Hard and Story mode, I can assure you there is no aggro wipe. I've yet to get into NiM but I doubt they would add one there, it would severely disadvantage Shadows and Guardians compared to a Vanguard.

 

Stormcaller will look towards (and target) the DPS while the tank is kiting) pillars but he should keep dropping them on the tank. If you are using a tank swap, after the 2nd or 3rd tank swap the Firebrand tank will have secondary aggro so will be targeted should the Stormcaller tank lose (or drop) aggro. If the tank that lost aggro part way through was a Guardian, make sure they weren't using Focused Defence, the threat drop from that could cause the situation you described.

 

Alternatively, one of the DPS had a DoT still ticking on the boss and it was sufficient to push their aggro high enough to pull. In that case: a taunt when the tank is knocked back will solve that problem.

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The thing is, we've been told by experience and the developers that the threat table in boss encounters is a linear progression - 1000 threat is 1000 threat, 10k is 10k. Healing is, IIRC, 0.75% of DPS threat per point (or thereabouts, which is way too high) and tanking is 200% of dps when in tank stance and not using multiplier attacks.

 

If the tank is popping taunts (which put the tank at 100% of the highest current threat on the target) and continuing to hit attacks, they should never lose threat. Provided, of course, that the tank's DPS is at least 50% of the top DPS before multiplier attacks. I don't know many tanks that aren't at least 1000 DPS for their rotation, and a top DPS is not 2000DPS.

 

If there's no DPS or no healing occurring on the fight, and the tank loses aggro in spite of taunts or aggro multipliers, there's gotta be a dump somewhere even if the mechanic is hidden. The fact is that Stormcaller frequently drops tank aggro to a DPS. We just don't know if it's intended (hidden mechanic-driven) or a bug.

 

Also the easiest way to check if a fight has a threat drop is to look at a parse for the fight. If there is a threat drop, your tanks threat per second will be negative at the end of the fight. This is because every time they build up threat and it is wiped. The taunt will put that at 130% of the next highest threat, which will be lower than the volume they just lost. Alternatively, if the threat per second is over 3k you can be assured there isn't a threat drop at all.

 

My personal best TPS on Stormcaller is about 14k by the end of HM on a Guardian tank. This is with me using my single target taunt on Firebrand so I eat Incinerate Armour. Comparatively, on Vorgath (who does have a threat drop), I usually end up at around -9k TPS. I run with MoniTOR on my second screen so I can get a real time view of what is happening with threat.

 

Also, if you tank is a Shadow make sure they aren't using Noxxic's advice and using their combat stealth as a CD.

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Also, if you tank is a Shadow make sure they aren't using Noxxic's advice and using their combat stealth as a CD.

 

For the record, Noxxic's advice is *terrible* for shadow tanks. Really, really terrible. Using combat stealth as a CD is basically the only good thing in there, but it doesn't really help on this fight except to fix mistakes on Incinerate Armor (and then only on Hard Mode).

 

Coming back to the OP… There is no agro drop on any mode of the hover tanks. Here's a log from a recent one-shot we had on Nightmare Mode: http://www.torparse.com/a/58702/12 If you look at the Threat section, you can see a lot of upward spikes during tank swaps, and never a single downward spike (which is the hallmark of an agro drop). For reference, here's an older HM Kephess log using a strategy where the tanks trade off on the bleed (meaning both tanks get the agro drop at Kephess's jump): http://www.torparse.com/a/19420/11

 

One of the previous replies got it right: you're losing agro because of DoTs. This is super-easy to do if you don't tank swap on the IA, even when you're maximizing your threat. My advice would be to do the tank swap (it's really not that hard) and ensure that you're leading with your "high-threat burnout" rotation in the time before the first IA. Don't be afraid to AoE taunt (if you start on Stormcaller) to taunt boost and ensure that you really have a good hold on the boss going into the kiting phase.

 

On nightmare mode, if either tank loses agro on either boss for even a fraction of a second, it's probably an auto-wipe. Practice makes perfect!

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The thing is, we've been told by experience and the developers that the threat table in boss encounters is a linear progression - 1000 threat is 1000 threat, 10k is 10k. Healing is, IIRC, 0.75% of DPS threat per point (or thereabouts, which is way too high) and tanking is 200% of dps when in tank stance and not using multiplier attacks.

 

If the tank is popping taunts (which put the tank at 100% of the highest current threat on the target) and continuing to hit attacks, they should never lose threat. Provided, of course, that the tank's DPS is at least 50% of the top DPS before multiplier attacks. I don't know many tanks that aren't at least 1000 DPS for their rotation, and a top DPS is not 2000DPS.

 

If there's no DPS or no healing occurring on the fight, and the tank loses aggro in spite of taunts or aggro multipliers, there's gotta be a dump somewhere even if the mechanic is hidden. The fact is that Stormcaller frequently drops tank aggro to a DPS. We just don't know if it's intended (hidden mechanic-driven) or a bug.

 

Just thought I would point some things out.

 

healing aggro is 50% and is divided equally amongst all enemies in a fight,. tanking threat is 150%, and then some abilities increase it. For example, my shock generates 2.15 times the damage in threat, discharge and wither generate around 3 times as much. all other abilities generate 1.5 times the damage.

 

Taunting puts you over the current threat by 110% when taunted in melee range and 130% when taunted from more than melee range.

 

Also, My rotation is nowhere near 1000 dps. I might get lucky to get a 2-3k shock, 1-1.5k wither and minimal damage on discharge. My FL ticks for 1k. assassinate can go to 3-3.5 k if crit 2-2.5 k normal. There is no way I will get close to 1000 dps and I got PTs and assassins that can gnerate bursts for 2400 dps.

 

I have never seen a tank lose aggro while kiting, what can happen is if you have a sin/jugg or PT dps, they might taunt inside the shield so that the adds inside the shield dont hit the healers, and if they are not done properly, they might get storm aggroing on them.

Edited by sankalp
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Just thought I would point some things out.

 

healing aggro is 50% and is divided equally amongst all enemies in a fight,. tanking threat is 150%, and then some abilities increase it. For example, my shock generates 2.15 times the damage in threat, discharge and wither generate around 3 times as much. all other abilities generate 1.5 times the damage.

 

Base tanking threat is actually 200%. You did get the correct net multipliers on Wither and Shock though.

 

Also, My rotation is nowhere near 1000 dps. I might get lucky to get a 2-3k shock, 1-1.5k wither and minimal damage on discharge. My FL ticks for 1k. assassinate can go to 3-3.5 k if crit 2-2.5 k normal. There is no way I will get close to 1000 dps and I got PTs and assassins that can gnerate bursts for 2400 dps.

 

Because of the high-threat abilities as well as your self-heal, your net ideal threat is actually 1900-1950, assuming you're in 50-60% DG mods. That pairs with a DPS level of a bit over 800. No question that super, super high DPS can pull off you at that level, but they certainly have to work at it.

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I stand corrected - apparently my burst with the Inspiration buff is sufficient to keep me atop the threat chart. So it goes.

 

Suppose I'll tweak my rotation a bit and hit my force camo at the end of Inspiration instead of right after the first taunt, maybe that'll help.

 

Thanks for the education, all.

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I stand corrected - apparently my burst with the Inspiration buff is sufficient to keep me atop the threat chart. So it goes.

 

Suppose I'll tweak my rotation a bit and hit my force camo at the end of Inspiration instead of right after the first taunt, maybe that'll help.

 

Thanks for the education, all.

 

Or just have the tank taunt as they are leaving the tank, or do a tank swap.... either of those two things will prevent the dps from stealing agro during the shield phase.

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Not a tank, but I do not believe it is a bug. Even my alt infl speced shadow has pulled aggro at the same point and she does not have DoTs. Problem solved by using aggro dump before entering shield. Just have to make sure it is always up at the right time since it is part of my rotation for force management.
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