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Assassin Ability, Tactical Item, and Set Bonus Feedback


EricMusco

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They will be in an even worse place if the they go ahead with the announced Fury Mara changes. There will be such a big gap that playing a Sin or a Mara in pvp will be a no brainer.

 

I COMPLETLY AGREE, they realllllyyyy need to listen to the players on this one. They are furthering the gap between the classes.

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DPS sins lack everything compared to mara's atm.

 

Yup!!!!, a this point bioware should just have a vote system on what the players want the weaker classes to get in order for them to compete on the same level as the stronger classes.

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They will be in an even worse place if the they go ahead with the announced Fury Mara changes. There will be such a big gap that playing a Sin or a Mara in pvp will be a no brainer.

Except that there are plenty of players who dont like to play mara, and do like to play sin. The decisions/upgrades arent made with the mentality to push players to a specific class or spec. That decision is a players to make, and not everyone will suddenly shun their favorite classes in order to have an advantage that another class may provide.

Edited by olagatonjedi
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Except that there are plenty of players who dont like to play mara, and do like to play sin. The decisions/upgrades arent made with the mentality to push players to a specific class or spec. That decision is a players to make, and not everyone will suddenly shun their favorite classes in order to have an advantage that another class may provide.

 

I don’t disagree. And that’s the big problem here. People will be made to either play a class they don’t want to or play a class they like, but be severely gimped if they do.

 

There needs to be some balance and the only way we can test all these new changes is to have ALL of the class changes on the PTS to test at the same time. Otherwise this is all theoretical.

 

My concern is this drip - drop approach of putting one class on at a time is going to lead to them not changing anything because they won’t have time too.

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I don’t disagree. And that’s the big problem here. People will be made to either play a class they don’t want to or play a class they like, but be severely gimped if they do.

 

There needs to be some balance and the only way we can test all these new changes is to have ALL of the class changes on the PTS to test at the same time. Otherwise this is all theoretical.

 

My concern is this drip - drop approach of putting one class on at a time is going to lead to them not changing anything because they won’t have time too.

Nearly every game i have come across in my life has had categories such as easy, medium or hard difficulties. This is no different. Nothing to see here.

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Nearly every game i have come across in my life has had categories such as easy, medium or hard difficulties. This is no different. Nothing to see here.

 

random question, but what are you talking about? LOL

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I don't know if this forum has a multi quote option, 'cause I couldn't find one.

 

@Triss

 

It's been a no brainer since the nerf on sins, many players that mained a sin, went to mara's and never looked back.

 

@Delani

 

Nah, BW knows best, like when they said the reason for nerfing sins dps

"we felt that sins are OP so we nerfed their dps". :D

 

I felt BS when I've read that tbh.

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I don't know if this forum has a multi quote option, 'cause I couldn't find one.

 

@Triss

 

It's been a no brainer since the nerf on sins, many players that mained a sin, went to mara's and never looked back.

 

@Delani

 

Nah, BW knows best, like when they said the reason for nerfing sins dps

"we felt that sins are OP so we nerfed their dps". :D

 

I felt BS when I've read that tbh.

 

Yeah, but this will increase the gap even more. Seems like Bioware want to completely trash the whole Inquisitor class in total. Sorcs are already in a bad place too. But let’s make Sins worse while we’re at it so nobody will play Inquisitors in pvp unless they are healers.

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Yeah, but this will increase the gap even more. Seems like Bioware want to completely trash the whole Inquisitor class in total. Sorcs are already in a bad place too. But let’s make Sins worse while we’re at it so nobody will play Inquisitors in pvp unless they are healers.

More overexaggeration. Sin/shadow is still in my top 2 favorite classes to play and pvp with, and the dynamic nature of the game will not change that. People enjoy what they enjoy, and oftentimes it has nothing to do with your perceived view of the classes performance. Lest we not forget that mara also limits you to a dps class, while sin allows the option of queuing as a tank OR dps, which in and of itself is a benefit no tactical or set bonus can compare to.

 

Not everyone in the game needs specific inherent class advantages to be successful.

Edited by olagatonjedi
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Steely Spike - Using Spike grants you a 20% damage reduction for 6 seconds.

This is soooooo broken for assissin tanks. I guess ill take it as I main one of those already but this will just add to how strong assassin tanking is atm. As part of the tank spec, spike can be used outside of stealth and has a cool dwon of 20 sec. This is 36 sec of up time if used on cool down over a 2 minute period. Compare this to overcharged saber, a 25% dr increase with a 2 minute cool down and you can see how over powered this becomes. Also since assassins are all about using dcds at the right time to mitigate burst damage, this adds to our arsenal of strong dcds with a short cool down.

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Severing Slash is disappointing compared to Furious Focus. Severing Slash has very minimal use in Operations when fighting bosses. Useful in add-heavy fights where they can be AoE'd, but not in single target fights; whereas, Furious Focus is useful in all Operation fights. For PvP, this is meh. Provides you with more control which is always nice and that's probably going to be the main reason to use it unless the damage is really high.

 

Death Knell is great for more casual play and can be used in Ops where there are a lot of adds, but the uptime increase will generally be minimal since most adds are killed asap. In fights where that isn't the case, it may prove more useful. I can't see this being too useful in PvP since you typically try to just burn down targets one at a time and TTK is fairly high for the most popular specs.

 

Shadowcraft is interesting, but I would have to test it a bit before I can form a solid opinion on it, but 3 Discharges in a row sounds rather fun. could really be effective in PvP for chasing people who ran away to heal and possibly misdirection. How effective the latter will be will depend on how the opposing team is stacked though.

 

Deflecting Slashes is cool in concept, but how useful it is is dependent on how many enemies you can actually clip. In ranked, you're only hitting 4 tops which is whatever. In PvE, you can hit more, but I assume it only caps 8 targets hit like all other AoE abilities. 8 seconds is nice. This benefits tanks more than DPS.

 

Steely Spike is going to be incredibly powerful on tanks. It will have some use in PvP for the DPS specs, but it still heavily benefits tanks while being decent at best for DPS.

 

Projected Shroud is nice. Does the accuracy drop affect Operation bosses? Extra time on Shroud is always welcome. Can be really scary when combined with Shadow Shroud. That's a lot of time spent in Shroud.

 

Shrouding Guard is a concept I really like. Taking your best DCD and allowing it to be used on another sounds amazingly powerful and it leaves you without Shroud when you're taking damage later. I think the balance in that for PvP is fine honestly. Whether or not it's actually really powerful is hard to say without seeing it in practice. I don't think it will be broken on Sin DPS. Tanks on the otherhand...

 

Reckless Shadow really helps Hatred. Darkness doesn't really need it, but can help in some PvE fights. Deception has no use for this whatsoever since that has some of the easiest resource management out of all the classes.

 

Multitrap sounds awesome for casual play like node farming. In PvP it seems better than it would actually be since you can only mind trap while in stealth and only targets that aren't in combat. It will be very useful if your team can nuke a target down in those opening seconds, otherwise, it will be a waste. In Ops, this will be very good for skipping mobs, but then it will be swapped out when you get to a boss.

 

Shadow Step seems really interesting. Benefits Deception the most, but Shadow Stride (and Holotraverse) off the GCD is still clunky. Please take it off the GCD.

 

Shadow Shroud sounds really cool and will be incredibly powerful in Fights where you cannot shield attacks.

 

Shadow Ward is pretty cool and sounds good, but I think it may be outclassed by Shadow Shroud.

 

Redirected Wrath I think will run into the problem Shadow Ward has. I can't see either of these being more useful than Shadow Shroud in most scenarios.

 

Discharging Voltage is really nice and seems like it will turn Discharge into Deathfield more or less.

 

Burning Bolts is nice, but if the damage isn't significant, it will be outclassed by the other Tactical Items.

 

High Voltage is hard to tell if it will be good or not simply, because I can't test it currently. Could be really good or it could be underwhelming.

 

Hungering Blade is hard to tell since it stacks and Hatred is the roughest of the Sin specs on resource. It's also RNG dependent which makes it inconsistent. I once had a fight where I had a 87% crit rate on Leeching Strike. I've also had a crit rate as low as 32%. Too inconsistent to be useful in my opinion.

 

Exhaustion Field will really only ever be taken for the 10% damage boost. People don't really use Force Slow for the most part.

 

Thrashing Terror only has a 10% chance which is lackluster at best. I cant see this being taken ever as is.

 

I think Sin can use better Tacticals on the whole, but Hatred Currently has the weakest of the 3 in my opinion. Unless Sin is getting a large damage boost on its abilities, Mara will outclass it again as Furious Focus is amazing and Severing Slash is just situational at best. The set bonuses are mediocre at best unless you are a tank. Steely Spike will be incredible for Darkness.

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Severing Slash is disappointing compared to Furious Focus. Severing Slash has very minimal use in Operations when fighting bosses. Useful in add-heavy fights where they can be AoE'd, but not in single target fights; whereas, Furious Focus is useful in all Operation fights. For PvP, this is meh. Provides you with more control which is always nice and that's probably going to be the main reason to use it unless the damage is really high.

 

Death Knell is great for more casual play and can be used in Ops where there are a lot of adds, but the uptime increase will generally be minimal since most adds are killed asap. In fights where that isn't the case, it may prove more useful. I can't see this being too useful in PvP since you typically try to just burn down targets one at a time and TTK is fairly high for the most popular specs.

 

Shadowcraft is interesting, but I would have to test it a bit before I can form a solid opinion on it, but 3 Discharges in a row sounds rather fun. could really be effective in PvP for chasing people who ran away to heal and possibly misdirection. How effective the latter will be will depend on how the opposing team is stacked though.

 

Deflecting Slashes is cool in concept, but how useful it is is dependent on how many enemies you can actually clip. In ranked, you're only hitting 4 tops which is whatever. In PvE, you can hit more, but I assume it only caps 8 targets hit like all other AoE abilities. 8 seconds is nice. This benefits tanks more than DPS.

 

Steely Spike is going to be incredibly powerful on tanks. It will have some use in PvP for the DPS specs, but it still heavily benefits tanks while being decent at best for DPS.

 

Projected Shroud is nice. Does the accuracy drop affect Operation bosses? Extra time on Shroud is always welcome. Can be really scary when combined with Shadow Shroud. That's a lot of time spent in Shroud.

 

Shrouding Guard is a concept I really like. Taking your best DCD and allowing it to be used on another sounds amazingly powerful and it leaves you without Shroud when you're taking damage later. I think the balance in that for PvP is fine honestly. Whether or not it's actually really powerful is hard to say without seeing it in practice. I don't think it will be broken on Sin DPS. Tanks on the otherhand...

 

Reckless Shadow really helps Hatred. Darkness doesn't really need it, but can help in some PvE fights. Deception has no use for this whatsoever since that has some of the easiest resource management out of all the classes.

 

Multitrap sounds awesome for casual play like node farming. In PvP it seems better than it would actually be since you can only mind trap while in stealth and only targets that aren't in combat. It will be very useful if your team can nuke a target down in those opening seconds, otherwise, it will be a waste. In Ops, this will be very good for skipping mobs, but then it will be swapped out when you get to a boss.

 

Shadow Step seems really interesting. Benefits Deception the most, but Shadow Stride (and Holotraverse) off the GCD is still clunky. Please take it off the GCD.

 

Shadow Shroud sounds really cool and will be incredibly powerful in Fights where you cannot shield attacks.

 

Shadow Ward is pretty cool and sounds good, but I think it may be outclassed by Shadow Shroud.

 

Redirected Wrath I think will run into the problem Shadow Ward has. I can't see either of these being more useful than Shadow Shroud in most scenarios.

 

Discharging Voltage is really nice and seems like it will turn Discharge into Deathfield more or less.

 

Burning Bolts is nice, but if the damage isn't significant, it will be outclassed by the other Tactical Items.

 

High Voltage is hard to tell if it will be good or not simply, because I can't test it currently. Could be really good or it could be underwhelming.

 

Hungering Blade is hard to tell since it stacks and Hatred is the roughest of the Sin specs on resource. It's also RNG dependent which makes it inconsistent. I once had a fight where I had a 87% crit rate on Leeching Strike. I've also had a crit rate as low as 32%. Too inconsistent to be useful in my opinion.

 

Exhaustion Field will really only ever be taken for the 10% damage boost. People don't really use Force Slow for the most part.

 

Thrashing Terror only has a 10% chance which is lackluster at best. I cant see this being taken ever as is.

 

I think Sin can use better Tacticals on the whole, but Hatred Currently has the weakest of the 3 in my opinion. Unless Sin is getting a large damage boost on its abilities, Mara will outclass it again as Furious Focus is amazing and Severing Slash is just situational at best. The set bonuses are mediocre at best unless you are a tank. Steely Spike will be incredible for Darkness.

 

You make good points!!! do you think they should have a tactical that revolves around Force cloak/cloak out?

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I do like the tactical items for the most part, but my main concern is for the set bonuses. As someone who primarily plays Infiltration/Deception, the 15 sec CD reduction on recklessness is very important to the flow of our rotation, and the auto crit on Maul is one of our heaviest hitting attacks. If we're not going to be able to utilize these bonuses with top end gear anymore, I'd ask that they at least be added to as baseline abilities for the spec itself (perhaps gained between levels 70 and 75), because right now on paper I don't think I'd prefer any of these set bonuses for a Deception Assassin above those two that I already have.
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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 3 weeks later...

Shadowcraft just baffles me. I had really hoped some changes would come to Sin sets & tacticals. So many good ideas and critiques in this thread.

 

Why would anyone use Phantom Stride from stealth? Is this a PvP thing (don't PvP at all)? I can't think of a single time I used that combo in a raid...

 

I feel like set bonii for Sin are the most 'disconnected' from the class, encouraging sub-optimal rotation and general dps nerfs.

 

Really hope Bioware revisits this with some serious effort.

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For hatred you need to add dot spread back to death field.. Spreading force slow with death field is just useless and the changes for 6.0 are absolute garbage and quite laughable compared to the sniper ones....

 

DPS Sins on paper look like the new bottom for PVP in 6.0 and good first targets in Ranked. They will be worse than PT's now. Good times... After those totally useless nerfs 1 year or so ago, you keep destroying this class even further, but at least playing tank will be worth it.

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Why would anyone use Phantom Stride from stealth? Is this a PvP thing (don't PvP at all)? I can't think of a single time I used that combo in a raid...

 

It's not a PvP thing either... Most of these set bonuses, tact items just seem so clueless and random.

Edited by mickym
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Ward of the Continuum

Dark Ward gains 5 additional stacks and Phantom Stride resets its cooldown.

That tactical is completely useless, there is never a situation where we need more of Dark Ward given its cooldown and duration, for example it could increase the shield chance Dark Ward provides instead.

 

New Ability - Severing Slash - just a slightly stronger Lacerate with a 3 second slow, it is a meh ability and I don't think it's needed at all cross-spec. Maybe it should have buffed damage and only be available in deception while the other specs would just get some nice passives or a small QoL improvement heh.

 

Also the general Tactical - The Life Warden "debuff" can be unclicked and it can be triggered without limit, esentially healing someone to full every time he's brought to 20% without dying.

 

Greased Lightning - for dps specs it increases dps by around 1k despite not showing on buff list and unless there are some "broken" class tacticals Greased Lightning is the only viable choice, everything else is trash compared to it.

 

Shrouding Guard - that's an interesting utility, a bit cheesy, but can be fun to (ab)use

Reckless Shadow - awfuly boring and weak, waste of a tactical slot

Multitrap - niche QoL but a waste of a tactical slot

Shadow Step - again nice QoL, but it is never worth using in any scenario

Shadow Shroud - very niche usage, ok

Redirected Wrath - sounds nice and versatile, however as with all these darkness tacticals I feel like they might not be useful enough in an average ops scenario if there are general/dps ones that increase dps by a lot.

 

Assassin set bonuses look really meh, even something simple might be more interesting/fun as it is on live, I don't like the addition of general set bonuses, they take away from the class sets uniqueness and there are just too many of all sets, having 1 ops set bonus and 1 pvp set bonus which provide clear benefits in the intended areas would be so much better, with ideally the pve set dropping from ops and pvp from pvp sources. There should be no less confusion as to what is best, it is not customization, not "play how you want to" it's "which one the hell is the best one for my spec? can someone do the math on it so i can delete all the other trash ones that i will never use and if i get them well unlucky me, i'll just have to hope i'll get the useful one at some point." With 1 pvp set bonus and 1 pve set bonus then could be slowly added general set bonuses with later patches and I guess they should be useful for crafting, gathering, doing quickly dailies and quality of live improvements outside of competitive PVP/PVE.

Edited by Restoman
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Multitrap - niche QoL but a waste of a tactical slot

Shadow Step - again nice QoL, but it is never worth using in any scenario

 

Multitrap is more PvP oriented and I find it very useful.

Shadow Step will benefit Deception spec, PvP for sure, maybe even for PvE.

 

But if we're talking from Darkness PvE point of view, I mostly agree with you. However, I prefer that roles stick to their job, meaning tanks should tank. So there should really be no tact/set bonus that buffs Darkness dps.

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Multitrap is more PvP oriented and I find it very useful.

Shadow Step will benefit Deception spec, PvP for sure, maybe even for PvE.

 

But if we're talking from Darkness PvE point of view, I mostly agree with you. However, I prefer that roles stick to their job, meaning tanks should tank. So there should really be no tact/set bonus that buffs Darkness dps.

 

Outside of reg warzone node capping there is no use of this tactical in ranked, it is completely not worth a tactical slot for double cap at the start of an arena, it won't affect it at this point of fight in any significant manner the way for example The Life Warden would with a heal-to-full cooldown.

 

Shadow Step being a dps increase for Deception would only occur if all other (including general) tacticals are garbage, as for darkness dps increase there are general tacticals that increase dps. Greased Lightning for example giving a flat 5% dps gain, so if we have a 350 dps increase on ST then taking the wither tactical with 2,5% sustained DR has no point, especially since sustained dtps doesn't matter as much as smoothness of the damage taken.

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Deception at the moment isnt viable. DPS wise the Deception is so far behind from other classes, tactical Items arent rly great, you could also delete them from the game, had to use Luck always changes to achieve some higher Crit numbers. Had to play with high alacrity and low crit to achieve higher dps(on a heavy crit based Class btw) tested it for some Hours, also tested it with a High Crit and low alacrity build with bad results, maybe you should think about bringing it back to Patch 5.5 levels, so the Deception can compete better with other Melee specs. Edited by Hewbacc
Had to edit something
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