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Kaggath Tournament - Xizor vs Traya vs Exar Kun


Beniboybling

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On Coruscant, Ulic and Mandalore will lead the Mandalorian and Krath armies against the Black Sun, destroying all opposition. Once inside, Ulic and Mandalore confront Xizor (who didn't have enough time to prepare for the attack) and Guri. Ulic will quite easily defeat Guri and Mandalore will kill Xizor.

 

If Xizor knows who he's up against, I assure you right from the word "GO" he'll be burning lines trying to get away from Coruscant and his almost-defenseless palace. He does have a fleet and a personal ship. I think Kun will be forced to face him in a space battle. He certainly won't be unprepared for Kun's attack. And hyperspeed isn't a split second and you're there.

 

Also, I think Guri could kill Mandalore.... but not Ulic, obviously(?).

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But again, me having a rant. I do believe it applies to the debate somewhat. Kun's inability to keep his commanders on a tight leash, combined with his sheer arrogance, could leave to rash, brazen assaults, giving Traya and Xizor opportunities to exploit him. The way I see it so far is Kun will attack both Malachor V and Coruscant simultaneously. Now Kun didn't have a wide range of tactical commanders, his forces were largely commanded by Mandalore and Ulic. So I would think he would send Ulic to lead the attack on Coruscant - else it would be a shambles. And he would likely lead the assault on Malachor, most likely bringing several of his Brotherhood with him. He was arrogant but not completely stupid, Malachor is an unfamiliar and dangerous planet, support would be needed.

 

Except for the fact that his forces were incredibly loyal to him and followed orders without question. Ulic and Mandalore weren't big fans of his strategy, preferring the direct assault, which is what Kun will do here. He just has to strike Coruscant and Malachor.

 

But what happens next? How will Ulic fare against Xizor? Where will he strike from? (If he strikes from the Deep Core he could move fast, but would lose the advantage of having Ulic lead the charge) And what traps will Xizor leave? Perhaps a gravity well generator to pull them out of hyperspace en route? Then slowly obliterate the trapped armada? Or will Ulic just steamroll over him?

 

Ulic will do just fine. Xizor doesn't have enough time to prepare for the attack. His forces strike from the Deep Core. There just isn't enough time to prepare for such a quick attack.

 

And what of Malachor V? Traya will almost certainly see an attack coming, and possible predict her defeat. Yavin to Malachor is a matter of hours. She does not have the time to summon her best Sith Lords to her side, save Sion. So will she take fight, or flight? And if so, where will she flee? Ambush him on Yavin 4? Leave Sion to carve a swathe through the Brotherhood, then fake his death?

 

Traya can't beat Kun no matter where she goes, but she has the best chance of winning on Malachor. Now if she does go the ambush route, Kun will sense it. Ambushes and assassinations are of little use against him.

 

A lot of questions there :D But I just want't to here everyone's thoughts on what the outcome of a two pronged invasion of Malachor and Coruscant would be...

 

P.S. Surely Kun's forces are centralized in the Deep Core and Mandalore? (I'm not sure what fleets the Mandalorians possessed...) That is after all where they struck from in the Sith War. So if Traya strikes first, Yavin 4 will be undefended. It would take a week for the forces at Koros Major to react (which would be attacking Coruscant) and maybe several hours for the forces at Mandalore to do the same. A problem that could be resolved with a two pronged attack on Mandalore and Yavin 4. And a slightly related question, how would Traya's fleet fare against Kun's - if say there was a skirmish between equal numbers. I think it could swing either way...

 

Traya doesn't have the forces to be able to make a two-pronged attack, and Kun won't need the entire Tetan and Mandalorian fleet to take Coruscant.

 

A skirmish? Depends on what Exar Kun has with him. His army is incredibly diverse.

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If Xizor knows who he's up against, I assure you right from the word "GO" he'll be burning lines trying to get away from Coruscant and his almost-defenseless palace. He does have a fleet and a personal ship. I think Kun will be forced to face him in a space battle. He certainly won't be unprepared for Kun's attack. And hyperspeed isn't a split second and you're there.

 

Also, I think Guri could kill Mandalore.... but not Ulic, obviously(?).

 

And that brings up a previous point Beni made. The combatants can't just go anywhere. (Unless Beni wants to clear that up a bit more)

 

Mandalore was quite skilled in battle, but obviously Ulic will destroy Guri.

 

Edit: and the Empress Teta system is like right next to Coruscant. So they will get there awful fast.

Edited by Aurbere
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OK Beni, here's a scenario for Exar Kun's victory. (Note that it will be perfectly sound. I've been preparing for this battle :jawa_evil:) This scenario will be based around Exar Kun's ability to strike quick and hard, something that he did regularly during the Sith War.

 

Exar Kun will wage two wars at once. He will send Ulic Qel-Droma and Mandalore to attack Coruscant, while he quickly strikes Malachor.

 

On Coruscant, Ulic and Mandalore will lead the Mandalorian and Krath armies against the Black Sun, destroying all opposition. Once inside, Ulic and Mandalore confront Xizor (who didn't have enough time to prepare for the attack) and Guri. Ulic will quite easily defeat Guri and Mandalore will kill Xizor.

 

Meanwhile, Exar Kun marches his hordes of Massassi* on the Trayus Academy. Here they will feed off of the Darkness of Malachor and easily sweep the Academy of Sith. Kun will defeat Sion and hand his body over to the Massassi, who will do unspeakable things to him (but not like that :eek:). Kun will then confront Traya in the Trayus Core, where he will be empowered by the nexus, and destroy her with his superior skill and power.

 

 

*Going to try to counter that point (among others)? Please do.

A very interesting and powerful scenario. But point out some flaws:

 

 

  • It will take Ulic several days if not a week to get to Coruscant (provided he is on Yavin 4) while it will take a little less for Mandalore to get there, and only a few hours of the Koros fleet to get there. So their going to arrive in dribs and drabs (more so if a gravity well generator is involved) making for it easier for Xizor to destroy them with a constant influx of Black Sun forces who will pour in from across the galaxy. Either that or they will be forced to group together first, giving Xizor ample time to prepare.
     
     
  • Traya will foresee Kun's attack on Malachor, and will foresee her defeat. She will therefore escape Malachor with her fleet on the Ravager. Kun will then have to navigate the hazards of Malachor V (landing an army of Massasi warriors in ancient, dodgy vessels on a planet coated in electrical storms and with a strong gravity pull will be difficult) and fight his way through the academy only to find Traya is not there. He will likely search the place top to bottom giving the inhabitants plenty of opportunities to whittle away at this Brotherhood and set traps for the Massassi. Hey they could even sabotage the ships, leaving them trapped on Malachor. (But the ships would probably crash anyway :p) His warriors will probably all die on Malachor, but I'm sure Kun can use his various powers to conjure up some sort of serviceable vessel to get him off the planet.
     
     
  • The majority of Kun's fleet - the Tetan Navy - is based in the Deep Core, several weeks away from Yavin 4 and Malachor V. He cannot rely on their assistance to invade Malachor V and will have to solely dedicate them to attacking Coruscant. The Mandalorian Fleet will be split between invading Malachor, protecting Mandalore and protecting Yavin 4. Traya will therefore be able to break through any Mandalorian blockade of Yavin 4 fairly easily. And set up an ambush. For example she could leave her fleet lying in wait, invade his Temple (all the Massassi warriors are trapped on Malachor V) and trash anything of value, and set up an ambush there with 4 other Sith Lords, including Sion the Immortal. When Kun returns from his failed mission his small fleet is ambushed by the full forces of Traya's armada AKA everything. If Kun manages to escape to the surface he'll find himself subject either to orbital bombardment (and unable to protect himself through rituals due to the desecration of his temple) or ambushed by Traya and her most powerful Sith.
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And that brings up a previous point Beni made. The combatants can't just go anywhere. (Unless Beni wants to clear that up a bit more)

 

Mandalore was quite skilled in battle, but obviously Ulic will destroy Guri.

 

Edit: and the Empress Teta system is like right next to Coruscant. So they will get there awful fast.

Yeah, Xizor is free to hyperspace jump outta Coruscant. But he has to go 'somewhere' tangible. Just name a planet and its fine (how about that stronghold we saw in TCW?)
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Go to Yavin? Seriously? Not only will she have to fight through the hordes of Massassi, but she will have to face Exar Kun at the center of his power. I don't see Traya leaving Malachor. She isn't the type of persona that goes about killing whoever she wants. She's a manipulator. She'll send her servants to do it.

 

Now on the topic of Sion. Are we going to assume that he can come back to life after losing his head? That would be really really lame. And if he could come back, the best he could do is come back as a severed head. Now how useful is he going to be as a severed head?

 

Or what about the Massassi ripping him to shreds? I have never heard of Sion coming back from the loss of limbs (or his head).

 

About the beheaded thing, Sion was said to have cuts and fractures in every part of his body, including his neck, I doubt he can even be beheaded, if anything hel get cut, but his head wont be severed. Now beating him, or capturing him would be a completely different story.

Edited by Darkondo
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A very interesting and powerful scenario. But point out some flaws:

 

 

  • It will take Ulic several days if not a week to get to Coruscant (provided he is on Yavin 4) while it will take a little less for Mandalore to get there, and only a few hours of the Koros fleet to get there. So their going to arrive in dribs and drabs (more so if a gravity well generator is involved) making for it easier for Xizor to destroy them with a constant influx of Black Sun forces who will pour in from across the galaxy. Either that or they will be forced to group together first, giving Xizor ample time to prepare.
     
     
  • Traya will foresee Kun's attack on Malachor, and will foresee her defeat. She will therefore escape Malachor with her fleet on the Ravager. Kun will then have to navigate the hazards of Malachor V (landing an army of Massasi warriors in ancient, dodgy vessels on a planet coated in electrical storms and with a strong gravity pull will be difficult) and fight his way through the academy only to find Traya is not there. He will likely search the place top to bottom giving the inhabitants plenty of opportunities to whittle away at this Brotherhood and set traps for the Massassi. Hey they could even sabotage the ships, leaving them trapped on Malachor. (But the ships would probably crash anyway :p) His warriors will probably all die on Malachor, but I'm sure Kun can use his various powers to conjure up some sort of serviceable vessel to get him off the planet.
     
     
  • The majority of Kun's fleet - the Tetan Navy - is based in the Deep Core, several weeks away from Yavin 4 and Malachor V. He cannot rely on their assistance to invade Malachor V and will have to solely dedicate them to attacking Coruscant. The Mandalorian Fleet will be split between invading Malachor, protecting Mandalore and protecting Yavin 4. Traya will therefore be able to break through any Mandalorian blockade of Yavin 4 fairly easily. And set up an ambush. For example she could leave her fleet lying in wait, invade his Temple (all the Massassi warriors are trapped on Malachor V) and trash anything of value, and set up an ambush there with 4 other Sith Lords, including Sion the Immortal. When Kun returns from his failed mission his small fleet is ambushed by the full forces of Traya's armada AKA everything. If Kun manages to escape to the surface he'll find himself subject either to orbital bombardment (and unable to protect himself through rituals due to the desecration of his temple) or ambushed by Traya and her most powerful Sith.

 

1. Empress Teta is right next to Coruscant, and Ulic will be commanding the Krath. What would be the point of sitting Ulic at Yavin when his forces are light years away? He will be commanding the Krath, and will attack from Empress Teta. The speed at which they get to Coruscant will not allow Xizor to prepare anything besides rallying his mercs.

 

2. Exar Kun and the Massassi Warriors will be empowered by Malachor's Dark energies so the academy will be of little difficulty. Landing will be the hardest part, traversing the planet won't be incredibly difficult.

 

3. By the time Kun is done with the Academy, Ulic will have defeated Xizor. Kun will sense Traya on Yavin (using his advanced Force senses), which will make him contact Ulic (using telepathy, which he has done), and have him come pick him up. Then the entire Mandalorian and Krath War Fleet will attack Yavin. Now Traya is the one susceptible to bombardment.

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I think the flaws won't stop Exar Kun.

 

It will take Ulic several days if not a week to get to Coruscant (provided he is on Yavin 4) while it will take a little less for Mandalore to get there, and only a few hours of the Koros fleet to get there. So their going to arrive in dribs and drabs (more so if a gravity well generator is involved) making for it easier for Xizor to destroy them with a constant influx of Black Sun forces who will pour in from across the galaxy. Either that or they will be forced to group together first, giving Xizor ample time to prepare.

 

Was Ulic ever on Yavin 4? I would assume he is in the Empress Teta system with the Krath fleet and some parts of the Mandalorian fleet. So going for Coruscant won't take long.

 

Traya will foresee Kun's attack on Malachor, and will foresee her defeat. She will therefore escape Malachor with her fleet on the Ravager. Kun will then have to navigate the hazards of Malachor V (landing an army of Massasi warriors in ancient, dodgy vessels on a planet coated in electrical storms and with a strong gravity pull will be difficult) and fight his way through the academy only to find Traya is not there. He will likely search the place top to bottom giving the inhabitants plenty of opportunities to whittle away at this Brotherhood and set traps for the Massassi. Hey they could even sabotage the ships, leaving them trapped on Malachor. (But the ships would probably crash anyway :p) His warriors will probably all die on Malachor, but I'm sure Kun can use his various powers to conjure up some sort of serviceable vessel to get him off the planet.

 

Leaving Kun an academy behind will backfire. Kun will take the Sith teachings he can get there and use them. This will only make hin stronger.

Btw. Kun will sese when Traya has left.

 

[*]The majority of Kun's fleet - the Tetan Navy - is based in the Deep Core, several weeks away from Yavin 4 and Malachor V. He cannot rely on their assistance to invade Malachor V and will have to solely dedicate them to attacking Coruscant. The Mandalorian Fleet will be split between invading Malachor, protecting Mandalore and protecting Yavin 4. Traya will therefore be able to break through any Mandalorian blockade of Yavin 4 fairly easily. And set up an ambush. For example she could leave her fleet lying in wait, invade his Temple (all the Massassi warriors are trapped on Malachor V) and trash anything of value, and set up an ambush there with 4 other Sith Lords, including Sion the Immortal. When Kun returns from his failed mission his small fleet is ambushed by the full forces of Traya's armada AKA everything. If Kun manages to escape to the surface he'll find himself subject either to orbital bombardment (and unable to protect himself through rituals due to the desecration of his temple) or ambushed by Traya and her most powerful Sith.

 

Kun will know where Traya is and will go to find her. If she is on her ship, he will land there, if she is on the surface, he will go there. Then he will use his amulet to knock out the other Sith, Force-persuade Sion into dying within a very short time and then kill Traya.

 

(Btw. I agree that, Revan and Traya are better strategists than Kun on the long term. The Republic would have outlasted Kun/would have sprung back into existance after his Empire crumbled. But in the Kaggath, it doesn't matter because he can win on the short term.)

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1. Empress Teta is right next to Coruscant, and Ulic will be commanding the Krath. What would be the point of sitting Ulic at Yavin when his forces are light years away? He will be commanding the Krath, and will attack from Empress Teta. The speed at which they get to Coruscant will not allow Xizor to prepare anything besides rallying his mercs.

 

2. Exar Kun and the Massassi Warriors will be empowered by Malachor's Dark energies so the academy will be of little difficulty. Landing will be the hardest part, traversing the planet won't be incredibly difficult.

 

3. By the time Kun is done with the Academy, Ulic will have defeated Xizor. Kun will sense Traya on Yavin (using his advanced Force senses), which will make him contact Ulic (using telepathy, which he has done), and have him come pick him up. Then the entire Mandalorian and Krath War Fleet will attack Yavin. Now Traya is the one susceptible to bombardment.

Your right with that first point, Ulic was sort of the military leader of the Krath, so he would likely lead a quick and brutal assault on Coruscant from Empress Teta. But even a few hours would be enough for Xizor to escape Coruscant, the Virago would also be fast enough to escape during the battle. He could then retreat to Mustafar (the Black Sun HQ we saw in TCW) and hunker down their. Ulic would then have to chase him there and face an organised armarda, as well as a possible incident with a gravity well generator en-route So Xizor will still be a threat while Kun is dealing with the academy.

 

Concerning Force sense, let us not forget that Traya was skilled in the use of Force concealment. She could shield herself from the senses themselves but also in the way Sidious shielded his presence from the Jedi Order. This is how she managed to maintain her disguise as Kreia. It fooled the Masters of the Jedi High Council, even when she was right in front of them, even when she revealed her identity their vision of her was clouded, so she could likely do the same with Kun, especially over such a distance. And you can't just pick someone up from the most hazardous planet in the galaxy. Ulic would just crash down with him. But I think Kun is capable of escaping, perhaps on a Basilisk droid? But he would still be forced to leave his warriors behind.

 

Oh and can you remind me again of where Kun displayed his power in Force sense, I remember you said in Kun's prievous Kaggath but I have forgotten. :p

 

And Maaurin, what is this amulet of death you speak of? And I think Traya would destroy the teachings on Malachor, or maybe even destroy the academy itself - she would want to give Kun no reason to linger.

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And that brings up a previous point Beni made. The combatants can't just go anywhere. (Unless Beni wants to clear that up a bit more)

 

Agreed, considering Xizor actually has his own personal Starfighter that has a Hyperdrive, and Guri has her own personal starship...

 

In all honesty, Xizor's chances primarily depend on how much of a threat Exar Kun and Traya would consider him to be.

 

I really think Exar Kun has some raw advantages in terms of numbers and fighting strength, but at the same time I think Sion could take down Ulic and Mandalore.

 

Both Xizor and Kun have Mandos so that would be a wash (assuming some mandos don't recognize that mandalore as legit)...

 

Really, Xizor's palace didn't have the capability to handle space battles and quite frankly it didn't need to, because that was the perview of Coruscant's planetary defenses...

 

As far as Traya's Academy, I don't see how Exar Kun could even damage it with his fleet, let alone destroy it, barring a super weapon. It survived Malachor V being ripped apart back at the end of the Mandalorian Wars, remember.

 

So Xizor's survival is entirely dependent on whether or not Traya and Exar Kun consider him to be a serious threat.

 

Analysis:

Exar Kun: Well in a typical Sith Lord fashion, Exar Kun would likely consider Xizor to be a laughable threat, Kun's flaw is his overconfidence, so he may go gunning for Traya first, thinking he can eliminate Xizor at his leisure. Unlike Revan, he lacks the patience to wait out his opponent and let his opponent make the mistake of launching a stupid attack, so it stands to reason that Exar Kun would try to invade Traya's Academy.

 

Traya: She would consider Xixor to be a key player in this, however if you look at her behavior patterns, she's more likely to go gunning for Exar Kun first (considering her hatred of the Force), and Kun isn't giving her proper respect as a Dark Lord of the Sith... While her patience isn't infinite, she has more patience than Exar Kun and thus she'd lure Exar Kun to where she has the home court advantage, Ravenger and the other hulks at her disposal wouldn't likely be enough to take down Exar Kun's forces.

 

Xizor: He's going to make sure he has good defenses, and isn't likely to act before he is ready. While he's shown overconfidence in the past, he isn't as likely to make that mistake like he did concerning Luke Skywalker, with the forces that both Traya and Kun command, it's plainly obvious that he needs to take them very seriously. He also isn't going to whimsically dispatch Guri to eliminate people, it's a waste of time and likely going to send Guri to the scrap heap.

 

Scenario:

 

What I see is Exar Kun blockading Malachor V and losing patience and in his overconfidence, he launches an all out invasion of the planet. As his troops get eliminated by various examples of the local wildlife, they then end up having to take on a bunch of sith assassins, troopers, Dark Jedi, other force wielding sith, etc. This would likely whittle down the numbers on both sides.

 

I see Sion easily dispatching Ulic and Mandalore... I'm just not sure if Exar Kun will have the presense of mind to try to talk Sion into giving up. Remember, the Exile didn't Force Persuade Sion to give up, the Exile persuaded Sion purely with words. I really don't know who'd win this fight, while Exar Kun is the better duelist, the fact Sion just won't die, means that he likely would be able to outlast Kun. So it's hard to say.

 

If Kun wins then he has to take on Traya, Kun is the better saber wielder, but I think Traya might be the better force wielder. Also she has some stealth abilities that I'm not sure Exar Kun has or at least not as developed as Traya's were.

 

I kinda think Traya will defeat Kun in this purely due to Kun's impatience causes him to confront Traya on her own turf.

 

Now depending on whether or not Xizor's intelligence has figured out where this huge confrontation has taken place, he'd probably have forces show up while Exar Kun's forces are on Malachor V, and wait for the victor to emerge.

 

Now if he manages to successfully keep the victor's forces from leaving the planet and then mine the surrounding space, he may actually prove the victor.

 

If he fails at this, it turns into a possible confrontation on Xizor's home ground, but at that point I believe Xixor could win (barring thermal detonators aren't in the mix). Xizor would probably opt for Sion to be vaporized since not even immortal sith could come back from being reduced to particulate matter (or send Sion's rebuilding body into the heart of the Coruscant Sun).

 

Xizor would probably win this if the Sith decide to go kill each other first, if Exar Kun decides to go hunting for Xizor first though, Xizor is in serious trouble.

 

I consider the most likely winners to be either Traya or Xizor, it all boils down to which individual Exar Kun decides to attack first.

 

Additional Note:

While Exar Kun had a Sith Amulet, I'm not sure it would be effective on Sith Assassins that get more powerful, the stronger their adversary is, especially on Traya's home turf. I also don't think he could force persuade Sion into committing suicide out of hand...

Edited by GarfieldJL
Response to amulet being brought up
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And Maaurin, what is this amulet of death you speak of? And I think Traya would destroy the teachings on Malachor, or maybe even destroy the academy itself - she would want to give Kun no reason to linger.

 

It is one part of a two-part amulet, Ulic has the other half. I'm not sure if he got it from Freedon Nadds tomb or on Yavin 4, but it is a powerful Sith artifact. He used it to kill the SIth worm the Massassi tried to sacrifice him to, then to destroy the spirit of Freedon Nadd. On Koros, he knocked out Aleema Keto with it before he engaged Ulic. During their fight it reacted with Ulic's amulet and the Sith ghosts appeared.

 

(Kun's amulet is worn at the hand, while Ulic's is worn around th neck.)

 

PS: I really doubt Traya would destroy the teachings. It's not in her character to prevent her enemies from learning. She might try to use them for manipulation somehow.

 

While Exar Kun had a Sith Amulet, I'm not sure it would be effective on Sith Assassins that get more powerful, the stronger their adversary is, especially on Traya's home turf. I also don't think he could force persuade Sion into committing suicide out of hand...

 

Maybe not against the Sith assassins, but I think it would knock out the three Sith lords from Kotor II (Freedon Nadds tomb). They don't seem that much more powerful than the Ketos.

 

The Force persuade things is what, if I understood the comic correctly, what he used against Odan-Urr. He persued him with a few sentences that the Jedi were lost and Odan-Urr was old and dead. Then Odan-Urr died. Sion is also old and dead, not as old as Odan-Urr, but definitly more dead.

Edited by Maaruin
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Oh and can you remind me again of where Kun displayed his power in Force sense, I remember you said in Kun's prievous Kaggath but I have forgotten. :p

 

 

He used his Force Sense to locate Ulic Qel-Droma from across the galaxy, when Ulic was with Krath. This was before they became Sith Lords, his powers were enhanced even more when he became a Sith Lord.

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Gar does bring up an interesting point, Xizor could be seen as the underdog here given he isn't an all powerful Sith Lord. So while Traya and Kun are duking it out, Xizor could assemble what is needed, outfit his ships and troops with the right weapons/armor and the like. He could then wait, until the winner is decided and then wipe out the remains of whoever won.

 

Oh I also thought of something, Xizor could infact buy a shield generator for his palace making it immune to orbital bombardments.

Edited by Wolfninjajedi
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It is one part of a two-part amulet, Ulic has the other half. I'm not sure if he got it from Freedon Nadds tomb or on Yavin 4, but it is a powerful Sith artifact. He used it to kill the SIth worm the Massassi tried to sacrifice him to, then to destroy the spirit of Freedon Nadd. On Koros, he knocked out Aleema Keto with it before he engaged Ulic. During their fight it reacted with Ulic's amulet and the Sith ghosts appeared.

 

(Kun's amulet is worn at the hand, while Ulic's is worn around th neck.)

 

PS: I really doubt Traya would destroy the teachings. It's not in her character to prevent her enemies from learning. She might try to use them for manipulation somehow.

 

The amulet would have its limits though, the idea that it could take down other Dark Lords of the Sith is rather questionable...

 

Maybe not against the Sith assassins, but I think it would knock out the three Sith lords from Kotor II (Freedon Nadds tomb). They don't seem that much more powerful than the Ketos.

 

If it wouldn't work on the Assassins, it stands to reason it would not work on Traya and Sion.

 

The Force persuade things is what, if I understood the comic correctly, what he used against Odan-Urr. He persued him with a few sentences that the Jedi were lost and Odan-Urr was old and dead. Then Odan-Urr died. Sion is also old and dead, not as old as Odan-Urr, but definitly more dead.

 

If I remember correctly Exar Kun murdered Odan-Urr, he didn't force persuade him into dieing, he did persuade younger Jedi of this idea after Odan-Urr was dead...

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*snip*

 

Except Kun can attack Coruscant and Malachor simultaneously. And Empress Teta is right next to Coruscant, so Xizor's gonna have to get moving if he wants to escape. Which is possible, but it doesn't exactly mean much. Kun will let Xizor if he escapes, then turn his attention to the inferior Sith Lord: Darth Traya.

 

And Kun would beat Traya. It doesn't matter if she's on Malachor. Exar Kun can draw on Malachor's energies just like Traya. Exar Kun is superior to Traya. The entire Jedi Order feared him. He defeated some of the most powerful Jedi of his time with ease.

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The amulet would have its limits though, the idea that it could take down other Dark Lords of the Sith is rather questionable...

 

 

 

If it wouldn't work on the Assassins, it stands to reason it would not work on Traya and Sion.

 

He won't use it against them, sure. It won't kill Traya and Sion will keep himself alive. But Beni brought up

. The amulet might not kill them, but it will knock them out while he deals with Traya and Sion.

 

 

 

If I remember correctly Exar Kun murdered Odan-Urr, he didn't force persuade him into dieing, he did persuade younger Jedi of this idea after Odan-Urr was dead...

 

The dialogue in the comic goes like this:

 

Odan-Urr: Strange... the Sith Holocron is glowing brighter...

Exar Kun: (behind him) It is not strange, old one. It is called by its rightful owner. (takes the holocron with the force from OU's hand.)

OU: Dark Jedi, you do not belong in this place. Away! (Force-pushes him into the wall, trying Wall of Light.)

EK: Master, do you really know who I am? I am the Dark Lord of the Sith. (amulet glows)

OU: I... am old... evil is loose... in the galaxy... and I cannot stop it...

EK: Yes... You are old... old and dead. YOu should have just given me the Sith holocron.

OU: (dies and disappers)

EK: I wonder if he would have liked it better if I had sealed him in a Sith Crystal. (kicks Odan-Urr's robes away.)

Edited by Maaruin
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Remember Garfield, that Mandalore isn't in the fight, Ulic is however. Just making that clear.

Analysis:

Exar Kun: Well in a typical Sith Lord fashion, Exar Kun would likely consider Xizor to be a laughable threat, Kun's flaw is his overconfidence, so he may go gunning for Traya first, thinking he can eliminate Xizor at his leisure. Unlike Revan, he lacks the patience to wait out his opponent and let his opponent make the mistake of launching a stupid attack, so it stands to reason that Exar Kun would try to invade Traya's Academy.

 

Traya: She would consider Xixor to be a key player in this, however if you look at her behavior patterns, she's more likely to go gunning for Exar Kun first (considering her hatred of the Force), and Kun isn't giving her proper respect as a Dark Lord of the Sith... While her patience isn't infinite, she has more patience than Exar Kun and thus she'd lure Exar Kun to where she has the home court advantage, Ravenger and the other hulks at her disposal wouldn't likely be enough to take down Exar Kun's forces.

 

Xizor: He's going to make sure he has good defenses, and isn't likely to act before he is ready. While he's shown overconfidence in the past, he isn't as likely to make that mistake like he did concerning Luke Skywalker, with the forces that both Traya and Kun command, it's plainly obvious that he needs to take them very seriously. He also isn't going to whimsically dispatch Guri to eliminate people, it's a waste of time and likely going to send Guri to the scrap heap.

This is very interesting, I'm just like to point out a few things however:

 

Your right, Kun's arrogance would mean he would underestimate Xizor completely. However the majority if not the entirety (still not sure about the numbers of Mandalore's fleets - can anyone clarify?) of Kun's fleet is based in the Deep Core, specifically on Empress Teta. And there is a nice little hyperlane leading straight from Teta to Coruscant. So Kun would likely have Ulic strike at Xizor, for convenience. While he personally tackles Traya. A two pronged assault is likely if not definite.

 

Traya however, never let her emotions (even her hatred of the Force) get the better of her. Yeah that was the point of her whole plan, but she only did it for the good of the galaxy, not necessarily herself. So she isn't going to be 'drawn' to Kun because he has strong connections to the Force. But Kun is based on Yavin 4, very close to Malachor, so she's going to have to face him first. However I think she will probably believe Kun will deal with Xizor for her, and yes, would be confident if need be, she could destroy him herself. But Kun is the main threat her, purely because he is very powerful.

 

And with Xizor, your exactly right there.

Scenario:

 

What I see is Exar Kun blockading Malachor V and losing patience and in his overconfidence, he launches an all out invasion of the planet. As his troops get eliminated by various examples of the local wildlife, they then end up having to take on a bunch of sith assassins, troopers, Dark Jedi, other force wielding sith, etc. This would likely whittle down the numbers on both sides.

 

I see Sion easily dispatching Ulic and Mandalore... I'm just not sure if Exar Kun will have the presense of mind to try to talk Sion into giving up. Remember, the Exile didn't Force Persuade Sion to give up, the Exile persuaded Sion purely with words. I really don't know who'd win this fight, while Exar Kun is the better duelist, the fact Sion just won't die, means that he likely would be able to outlast Kun. So it's hard to say.

 

If Kun wins then he has to take on Traya, Kun is the better saber wielder, but I think Traya might be the better force wielder. Also she has some stealth abilities that I'm not sure Exar Kun has or at least not as developed as Traya's were.

 

I kinda think Traya will defeat Kun in this purely due to Kun's impatience causes him to confront Traya on her own turf.

 

Now depending on whether or not Xizor's intelligence has figured out where this huge confrontation has taken place, he'd probably have forces show up while Exar Kun's forces are on Malachor V, and wait for the victor to emerge.

 

Now if he manages to successfully keep the victor's forces from leaving the planet and then mine the surrounding space, he may actually prove the victor.

 

If he fails at this, it turns into a possible confrontation on Xizor's home ground, but at that point I believe Xixor could win (barring thermal detonators aren't in the mix). Xizor would probably opt for Sion to be vaporized since not even immortal sith could come back from being reduced to particulate matter (or send Sion's rebuilding body into the heart of the Coruscant Sun).

 

Xizor would probably win this if the Sith decide to go kill each other first, if Exar Kun decides to go hunting for Xizor first though, Xizor is in serious trouble.

 

I consider the most likely winners to be either Traya or Xizor, it all boils down to which individual Exar Kun decides to attack first.

 

Additional Note:

While Exar Kun had a Sith Amulet, I'm not sure it would be effective on Sith Assassins that get more powerful, the stronger their adversary is, especially on Traya's home turf. I also don't think he could force persuade Sion into committing suicide out of hand...

So we can apply what I said above, to your scenario.

 

Firstly I agree, Kun will go to Malachor and 'blockade' it with whatever forces he has. But these will be minimal so I think Aurbere's ground invasion by Massassi would be Kun's first move, and it seems a reasonable one. They would however take heavy losses.

 

Yet I don't think Traya or Sion will be present. I simply do not think Traya alone possesses the strength to defeat Kun on Malachor V. He is very powerful. Even with Sion at her side (he would probably bring his Brotherhood with him), its possible, but not assured. Traya wants an assured victory, she is going to make sure all the odds are in her favour. And an academy surrounded by Massassi warriors, and with Kun and his Brotherhood storming the battlements, is not good odds. Traya will see her imminent defeat through the Force, and flee to Yavin 4 and set a trap when Kun returns.

 

Oh and Ulic won't be present, he's all the way in the Deep Core, and it would take him at least a week to get to the Outer Rim.

 

However we also need to consider Kun's Brotherhood, he's got around 20 powerful Sith adepts, who will probably come with him to Malachor V. If Traya flees Malachor or not, she needs to deal with them first so she can isolate and kill Kun. But then again if Traya ambushes Kun's Mandalorian fleet above Yavin 4, with everything. Its highly possible that Kun and the Brotherhood would perish above Yavin 4, before they have a chance to escape below. Especially if Traya has Sion and assassins board whatever ship Kun is on (I'm sure from Yavin 4 she could sense his powerful dark side presence) and prevent his escape.

 

And concerning this amulet. The way I understand it is that is amplify's and channels Kun's power in Sith magic. A conduit if you will. Its not like a blaster, but Kun can use to to attack people through Sith magic, and it perhaps helps he use Sith magic in combat without the need for long rituals.

 

One question: How does everyone feel Traya & Sion would fare against just Kun?

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One question: How does everyone feel Traya & Sion would fare against just Kun?

 

2v1? I think they would do quite well.

 

If Traya pulls triple lightsaber control and Sion keeps Kun under heavy fire, they could defeat him.

 

Kun would have to defend with his single blade against an opponent who can't die, Sion's powerful strokes, and Traya's three lightsabers (which are quick and aided by Traya's mind... Traya's mind controling three lightsabers = scary)

 

And this isn't a video game. One slash from Sion and/or Traya's blades would end it for Kun. Where as one slash to Sion would not kill him.

 

I would have to give this to Traya and Sion.

Edited by Warren-Stride
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Remember Garfield, that Mandalore isn't in the fight, Ulic is however. Just making that clear.

This is very interesting, I'm just like to point out a few things however:

 

Your right, Kun's arrogance would mean he would underestimate Xizor completely. However the majority if not the entirety (still not sure about the numbers of Mandalore's fleets - can anyone clarify?) of Kun's fleet is based in the Deep Core, specifically on Empress Teta. And there is a nice little hyperlane leading straight from Teta to Coruscant. So Kun would likely have Ulic strike at Xizor, for convenience. While he personally tackles Traya. A two pronged assault is likely if not definite.

 

Traya however, never let her emotions (even her hatred of the Force) get the better of her. Yeah that was the point of her whole plan, but she only did it for the good of the galaxy, not necessarily herself. So she isn't going to be 'drawn' to Kun because he has strong connections to the Force. But Kun is based on Yavin 4, very close to Malachor, so she's going to have to face him first. However I think she will probably believe Kun will deal with Xizor for her, and yes, would be confident if need be, she could destroy him herself. But Kun is the main threat her, purely because he is very powerful.

 

And with Xizor, your exactly right there.

So we can apply what I said above, to your scenario.

 

Firstly I agree, Kun will go to Malachor and 'blockade' it with whatever forces he has. But these will be minimal so I think Aurbere's ground invasion by Massassi would be Kun's first move, and it seems a reasonable one. They would however take heavy losses.

 

Yet I don't think Traya or Sion will be present. I simply do not think Traya alone possesses the strength to defeat Kun on Malachor V. He is very powerful. Even with Sion at her side (he would probably bring his Brotherhood with him), its possible, but not assured. Traya wants an assured victory, she is going to make sure all the odds are in her favour. And an academy surrounded by Massassi warriors, and with Kun and his Brotherhood storming the battlements, is not good odds. Traya will see her imminent defeat through the Force, and flee to Yavin 4 and set a trap when Kun returns.

 

Oh and Ulic won't be present, he's all the way in the Deep Core, and it would take him at least a week to get to the Outer Rim.

 

However we also need to consider Kun's Brotherhood, he's got around 20 powerful Sith adepts, who will probably come with him to Malachor V. If Traya flees Malachor or not, she needs to deal with them first so she can isolate and kill Kun. But then again if Traya ambushes Kun's Mandalorian fleet above Yavin 4, with everything. Its highly possible that Kun and the Brotherhood would perish above Yavin 4, before they have a chance to escape below. Especially if Traya has Sion and assassins board whatever ship Kun is on (I'm sure from Yavin 4 she could sense his powerful dark side presence) and prevent his escape.

 

And concerning this amulet. The way I understand it is that is amplify's and channels Kun's power in Sith magic. A conduit if you will. Its not like a blaster, but Kun can use to to attack people through Sith magic, and it perhaps helps he use Sith magic in combat without the need for long rituals.

 

One question: How does everyone feel Traya & Sion would fare against just Kun?

 

Well, Exar Kun (if you ask me I dont speak for anyone else) is probably one of the Top 5 most powerful sith lords of all time, the Jedi Order of that time had to seal him away on Yavin since he was too powerful to defeat. His power was timeless since he was able to challenge Luke and the NJO and they still needed help from Master Baas' spirit to beat him. I think he could beat both of them al once, it would be a challenge but he could win convincingly.

 

Could he kill Sion? I dont think he could even Force Persuade him to die since Sion's sheer hatred is fueled by the dark side and being in the dark holocron's presence would only fuel his hatred which would keep him alive. Would Kun be able to break Sion into joining him? Yes, much more easily since Traya was able to do it twice.

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Against them both? Well...Kun could do this..

 

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/1662904-new_picture__35_.jpg

 

Force Blast, took out a huge dark side beast that was engineered by Naga Sadow and killed several Massasi Warriors.

 

Or

 

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/1662937-new_picture__68_.jpg

 

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/1662955-new_picture__7_.jpg

 

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/1662956-new_picture__8_.jpg

 

Just out duel them, he can swing his saber so fast that it creates after images. His swings so powerful it actually can break through Mandalorian iron.

 

While training under Bass, he beat both Crado and Sylvar together and then beat his own master using two blades. I don't see Sion being able to do crap against Kun other then be an annoyance, he can just blow him away with a Force Blast leaving him out of the fight, and thus Traya is the one to face Kun alone.

Edited by Wolfninjajedi
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Well, Exar Kun (if you ask me I dont speak for anyone else) is probably one of the Top 5 most powerful sith lords of all time, the Jedi Order of that time had to seal him away on Yavin since he was too powerful to defeat. His power was timeless since he was able to challenge Luke and the NJO and they still needed help from Master Baas' spirit to beat him. I think he could beat both of them al once, it would be a challenge but he could win convincingly.

 

Could he kill Sion? I dont think he could even Force Persuade him to die since Sion's sheer hatred is fueled by the dark side and being in the dark holocron's presence would only fuel his hatred which would keep him alive. Would Kun be able to break Sion into joining him? Yes, much more easily since Traya was able to do it twice.

I would agree, Kun is definitely IMO one of the most powerful Sith Lords out there. However we have to remember that the Jedi didn't imprison him with the Wall of Light because he was too powerful to defeat, not exactly. But because using a Sith ritual he had transcended physical form, the Jedi could therefore not fight him with a lightsaber or the Force because he was a spirit. The Wall of Light was erected to prevent him from escaping. So it wasn't so much he was too powerful, but because as a spirit they could not physically fight him, only imprison him.

 

That applies to is 'reawakening' too. Fighting a spirit is a whole different story to fighting a man, Luke could probably have defeated Kun if he was in physical form. But as a spirit he could not be killed by conventional means.

 

And in the heat of battle, with Traya at his side - I doubt Sion will join Kun. He'd have to be defeated first, and then Kun as to deal with Traya - not really much time to persuade him to abandon Traya. Unless Kun somehow isolates Traya from Kun, then it would be possible. But let us also remember that Kun won't know Sion is 'immortal' which could give Sion an edge.

 

However we also have to remember that Kun wielded a double-bladed lightsaber as a Sith. He was extremely proficient with it, and shortened and extended the blade in battle to confuse his enemies - combined with his rage filled attacks and exotic weapon, he was very unpredictable. And would also help him fight multiple opponents. However it did have significant drawbacks mainly in the sense that it often left them open to attack. Something Traya with multiple blades could exploit...

 

Wolf also makes some good points. We should however consider the powers of Force drain. Surely Traya could use Force drain on the amulet? Rendering it useless?

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Kun does know drain too, he used it on a huge scale absorbing all the power from thousands of Massassi Warriors. So its not like, he wouldn't be able to just counter it to just re-absorb what was lost.

 

Btw a completely off topic question, but does anyone know where Rayla is?

Edited by Wolfninjajedi
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Kun does know drain too, he used it on a huge scale absorbing all the power from thousands of Massassi Warriors. So its not like, he wouldn't be able to just counter it to just re-absorb what was lost.

 

Btw a completely off topic question, but does anyone know where Rayla is?

That is a point, but that doesn't make his talisman immune to it. And too drain all their lives he had to perform an intricate ritual. So we can't be sure if he can perform it of the bat.

 

And Rayla? No idea, maybe her subscription ran out? :confused:

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Sion poses no threat to Kun. He is simply the superior duelist. Or he can just destroy him with an epic Force Blast. And Traya doesn't pose that great of a threat either. Let's face it, a direct confrontation is simply not an option.

 

And Wolf, I have no idea where Rayla is. Haven't seen her through the whole tournament.

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Sion poses no threat to Kun. He is simply the superior duelist. Or he can just destroy him with an epic Force Blast. And Traya doesn't pose that great of a threat either. Let's face it, a direct confrontation is simply not an option.

 

And Wolf, I have no idea where Rayla is. Haven't seen her through the whole tournament.

I'm incline to agree with you here. While I think Sion and Traya (with telekinetic lightsabers, shatterpoint etc.) could overwhelm Kun and deal some blows. Kun can incapacitate (or even kill) Sion with a powerful Force blast. And then defeat Traya by conventional means.
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