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Clone Wars S05E18 The Jedi Who Knew Too Much


SNCommand

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Im pretty sure is ventress the trailer realy shows its her. however i dont think she is the vilan here. Most likely its a job that someone paid her to do. I dont think she has enough motive to do this on their own specialy since she bercome a bounty hunter, and helped obi wan against Maul / savage.

I dont think she hates anakin or obi wan enough as she hates dooku imo. In fact the last aperences she seemed practicaly hate free wiling to start a new life. Maybe she is working with the jedi secretly to uncover some plot who knows. For her being turn so bad so fast it better be a dam good reason.

And im confident maybe Filani is behind something too.

 

 

 

in the minute 3:05 cleary ventress there. But im highly doubt that she is the bad girl here.

Edited by Spartanik
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Hmmm, I get the feeling the writers were making it look like it was Anakin, but then revealed it was not when they showed Anakin was not actually there... interesting thought though, who's to say the person who force choked Letta is the same one who helped Ashoka escape? Doesn't that seem counter intuitive? The person who choked Letta obviously wanted to keep something from Ashoka, while making it look like her to remove her from the picture. So why then would this person then help her escape? And go to such lengths to further make Ashoka look guilty?

 

I highly doubt this person could possibly have masterminded the whole thing, from the Jedi Temple sabotage, to framing Ashoka... Maybe Ashoka just got in the way and framing her was a means of taking her out, but again, why not just stop with her imprisonment? Why let her escape and frame her for more murders?

 

So this is the way I see it. This 'person' - possibly a Jedi - orchestrated the attack on the Temple. Letta attempted to tell Ashoka, the only Jedi she could trust, who this person was. The person, wishing it to remain a secret, silenced Letta and framed Ashoka. However another individual (possibly Ventress) seeking for some reason to undermine this person, helped Ashoka to escape, killing the guards not to frame her, but to stop them preventing her escape.

 

But why free Ashoka? She doesn't actually know anything. Well I remembered what Tarkin said, that the sound of the recording had been tampered with, so only Ashoka knows that Letta was working for a Jedi. And maybe this other person needs Ashoka to convince the Jedi. Just a theory, but I think there could be two people involved in this.

 

I know for a fact a few people who it is not, but i wanted to jump in here and point out some flawed logic, perhaps the only time i ever could with it being you and all ^^

 

The person who killed Letta would know that if ahsoka was caught she would be put into custody, but if she escaped, and "killed 3 clone troopers" then a kill on sight order would be issued and she would be taken out of the picture completely.

 

What doesnt add up is who it is, i doubt it is ventress, i never thought she is one powerful enough to cloak herself through the force so that even a jedi couldnt sense her, as the newly appointed Admiral Tarken so happily pointed out.

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Lol confused again, what's your point here?

 

Remember though, Commander Fox was not one of ones knocked out, he didn't see anything.

 

EDIT: Something I forgot to mention that I found strange. Captain Rex remarks when he saw the dead troopers that Ashoka would never do something like this. Yet when Anakin leaves he tells the other clones that she has killed three troopers and should be considered dangerous... Sidious' influence?

 

I think his point was that Commander Fox would have heard the screams of the soldiers as they were cut or the sound of slashing sabers being just behind ahsoka, thus he couldnt really believe it was her. In the heat of the moment i dont think he would put the pieces together but perhaps he realises later on, as Anakin tries to convince others, that it can't have been her.

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My guess is it's Sidious who's behind it, shrouding himself from others, force choking from long distance

 

Not to mention the episode had Tarkin saying this about Palpatine, "I assure you, he rarely does anything without a strategy" Foreshadowing?

 

The most recent parts of this series have been about sidious' manipulation but thats not to say this will too, they could decide to focus solely on anakin and ahsoka and have some random low life nobody who will have no relation to current lore come in just to make sure there arent any repurcussions or mis-focussing. :L

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My guess is it's Sidious who's behind it, shrouding himself from others, force choking from long distance

 

Not to mention the episode had Tarkin saying this about Palpatine, "I assure you, he rarely does anything without a strategy" Foreshadowing?

Hmmm... in hindsight when I remembered that line, I thought the same thing. Which also made me think that perhaps Tarkin is involved in this somehow. He seemed very persistent in shooting Ashoka down when she protested, and pretty antagonistic towards her. By that I mean he was almost taunting her when he pointed out the flaws in her position, as if he knew that this would happen. But does that mean Tarkin knows Palpatine is a Sith Lord? Or perhaps only half the truth...

 

Oh and Selenial, good point. But lets say it is Sidious, what are his motives? I find it hard to believe he planned on getting Ashoka into that scenario from the start, so maybe she was just a problem that needed to be removed. However, the lightsaber cuts, knocked out guards and magically appearing key card would heavily suggest he has some sort of accomplice carrying out his bidding - he rarely went for the hands on approach. And that accomplice could have posed as a Jedi... still really unsure about this, but really want to work it out!

The most recent parts of this series have been about sidious' manipulation but thats not to say this will too, they could decide to focus solely on anakin and ahsoka and have some random low life nobody who will have no relation to current lore come in just to make sure there arent any repurcussions or mis-focussing. :L
I don't know if you've seen the trailers, but Ashoka finds Ventress in the undercity, who tries to kill her. That leads me to believe Ventress has something to do with this...

 

P.S. One thing that still doesn't fit. How come Letta had a name for Ashoka? That seems to imply that is was actually a Jedi involved in this, and not Maul or Ventress or another pawn of Sidious. Because they for one would have had difficulty posing as a Jedi, and would not have given her a name... that part just doesn't seem to make sense. And if it was a Jedi, how would Letta know his/her name - surely she wouldn't have recognized the Jedi, and surely the Jedi wouldn't have given her a name.

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Lol confused again, what's your point here?

 

Remember though, Commander Fox was not one of ones knocked out, he didn't see anything.

 

My point being is that Asoka would not have had enough time to kill the three Troopers before Fox came around the corner, guns blazing, about 1-2 seconds after Asoka found the bodies. Fox then giving the Shoot to Kill order didn't make sense to me because of the time involved.

Edited by UndyingImhotep
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Great episode! Everything about it from the atmosphere to the dialogue was phenomenal!

 

As for the debate on who could have bombed the Jedi Temple Hanger and killed all those Clones, by guess is that its Barriss with Sidious giving the orders.

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You guys gave up on Maul so easily...

 

1. Did you ever think for a second, Sidious could of used Maul to do it ?

2. Ventress is a bounty hunter now, if anything she would be hired to track Ahsoka down, not set her up.

3. Sidious giving Ahsoka a keycard ? That is kind of beneath the Sith Lord. He got people for that type of work.

4. Sidious said he got uses for Maul, and Maul is probably not in a position to refuse.

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One thing that still doesn't fit. How come Letta had a name for Ashoka? That seems to imply that is was actually a Jedi involved in this, and not Maul or Ventress or another pawn of Sidious. Because they for one would have had difficulty posing as a Jedi, and would not have given her a name... that part just doesn't seem to make sense. And if it was a Jedi, how would Letta know his/her name - surely she wouldn't have recognized the Jedi, and surely the Jedi wouldn't have given her a name.
I think its Filani or whats her name. The Mirilian ashoka friend.

since that event after geonosis i think she never was the same. And her talk in this episode about given to her emotions being the right thing, its rather suspicious.

 

One think is for certain the mere fact we are debating this means they are doing a great job with this show.

Edited by Spartanik
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I think its Filani or whats her name. The Mirilian ashoka friend.

since that event after geonosis i think she never was the same. And her talk in this episode about given to her emotions being the right thing, its rather suspicious.

 

One think is for certain the mere fact we are debating this means they are doing a great job with this show.

I agree, there was something suspicious about the way she was acting/looked in that episode. And her name is Bariss Offee :D.Then again, she does have a reputation for being a goody goody light side Jedi. Sort of a ying to Ashoka's yang.

 

Another thought I had. Commander Fox, could he be in on this? Here's why:

 

Letta said she was told Ashoka was the Jedi she should talk to if she had something to say. Yet we never see Ashoka or Anakin or anyone tell her that. Commander Fox could have told her this.

 

Commander Fox had Ashoka arrested, and ignored all the evidence against her being the culprit. He jumped immediately to the conclusion she had done it, also the sound was 'conveniently' not working - only a clone could have had access to the security systems, not even a Jedi and certainly not Ventress or Maul.

 

Fox only one who conveniently didn't get knocked out and didn't hear the troopers get attacked and didn't see Ashoka escape, nor did he hear or see the 'attacker' retrieve Ashoka's lightsabers and comlink, despite having security cameras monitoring the halls and the cell (which would have also seen the key card being dropped) and presumably not being tone deaf and blind.

 

Fox jumped to the conclusion that Ashoka had killed the troopers, and gave the order to shoot to kill. And he didn't recall that order when Anakin told him to do so.

 

Ashoka's comlink was active when she found it. Its possible that Commander Fox sabotaged the facilities systems (so the other clones wouldn't see Ashoka escape), and here's an idea - gassed the guards. That way they wouldn't remember anything or see their attacker. With the security inactive, the comlink was used to alert Fox to Ashoka's escape.

 

Basically it all seems very suspicious, especially the fact that Fox saw or heard absolutely nothing until Ashoka turned up. So its possible that, say, under the orders of Sidious, Commander Fox and another person put this whole Jedi Temple plot into motion. Ashoka got in the way and they attempted to take her out of the picture. Now Ashoka has escaped Ventress has been anonymously hired to kill her - money is her motive. That would explain her appearance.

 

Only question is, who's the Jedi?

 

And yeah your right, this intrigue has been brilliantly written!

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Barris offee was acting odd in this episode, and she has previously stated Jedi are peace keepers, not warriors in the brain invaders episode...

However I think she was merely used as a ploy to show Ashoka thinking, in this show they never hear thoughts or talk to themselves, feelings are expressed via chat with other characters, and I think that's all offee is...

 

Also, again, ventress could have easily been hired, just because she hunts Ashoka doesn't mean she's behind it, it's not unbenounced for the republic to put bounties on things clones can't do alone....

 

Fox, in my opinion isn't behind it. He seems like a very patriotic character, jumping to conclusions comes in a hell of a lot when strong emotions come into play, remember that.

 

But yeh.... Great writing!

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Oh and as for a name...

Anyone can make a name up, and easily put fake things on the holonet about some fake Jedi barely known who did **** all in the war :L

 

I don't think it was a real name, she wasn't killed because she'd reveal an identity she was killed to gram Ashoka because ahsoka knew she was hired to do it....

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Also, again, ventress could have easily been hired, just because she hunts Ashoka doesn't mean she's behind it, it's not unbenounced for the republic to put bounties on things clones can't do alone....

 

Fox, in my opinion isn't behind it. He seems like a very patriotic character, jumping to conclusions comes in a hell of a lot when strong emotions come into play, remember that.

 

But yeh.... Great writing!

Oh and as for a name...

Anyone can make a name up, and easily put fake things on the holonet about some fake Jedi barely known who did **** all in the war :L

 

I don't think it was a real name, she wasn't killed because she'd reveal an identity she was killed to gram Ashoka because ahsoka knew she was hired to do it....

Ventress could have been hired, but not by the Republic. After all she did used to be a Separatist agent... I think if she was hired it would have been by Sidious, and anonymously.

 

Patriotic? I didn't really get those vibes from him. And yeah I suppose the dead troopers makes sense, but Letta? And it seems really (and I mean really) suspicious that Fox didn't get knocked out, wasn't even there, didn't hear a thing and didn't see Ashoka escape on the security systems, or see the key card being placed. I mean he was in the little security compartment, with the screens right in front of him! Then acts all suprised when Ashoka he sees Ashoka had escaped! Surely he would have heard/seen something. Oh and lets not forget that Ashoka's lightsabers and comlink where on the floor. And yet they could only have been accessed from the inside. By a clone.

 

And also the sound had been sabotaged, only a clone could have accessed those security systems.

 

Good point about Offee though... I think some sort of Jedi might be involved though.

 

And about the name. Its just the writers made it look like that was the big secret. But hey, who knows.

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Barris offee was acting odd in this episode, and she has previously stated Jedi are peace keepers, not warriors in the brain invaders episode...

However I think she was merely used as a ploy to show Ashoka thinking, in this show they never hear thoughts or talk to themselves, feelings are expressed via chat with other characters, and I think that's all offee is...

 

Also, again, ventress could have easily been hired, just because she hunts Ashoka doesn't mean she's behind it, it's not unbenounced for the republic to put bounties on things clones can't do alone....

 

Fox, in my opinion isn't behind it. He seems like a very patriotic character, jumping to conclusions comes in a hell of a lot when strong emotions come into play, remember that.

 

But yeh.... Great writing!

 

I watched the episode again and yeah you might be on to something..

 

My updated list of suspects are,

 

1. Barris Offee - Prime Suspect. Her and Ahsoka have talked about how radical Anakin and his methods are. Also I don't think Barris has fully recovered from the infection on Geonosis. She is emotional compromised, and seems conflicted by the war. She also said, "Things will never change" and looked sad when she said it. She has always been the "Square one", "Naive", and looks highly on the things that Ahsoka has achieved. Perfect recipe for her to do something unorthodox and stupid in a effort to spark change and screw up in the process.

 

2. Darth Maul - Highly possible. Stealth missions are his specialty, and Sidious wastes no time putting his minions to work once he acquires them. Maul could be working with Sidious with the hopes that maybe he can redeem himself and become Sidious apprentice again.

 

3. Darth Sidious - Not Likely. While fully capable of being able to Force Choke a person on the other side of the planet while attending a meeting with a room filled with Jedi, I don't think he would do mundane work like slip a access card into a prison room. Nor would he lower himself to beating up guards.

 

4. Ventress - Impossible. Ventress made a promise to herself that she would not be used or be manipulated by anyone. She is independent and works strictly for credits as a Bounty Hunter. She is not the Cad Bane type of Bounty Hunter who will gladly steal younglings for credits. She has principles now. Also, Darth Sidious would instantly kill her if he had the chance. He wants her dead and ordered Dooku to killl her. If he was willing to take out Maul, who was more powerful then Ventress, why would he align himself with Ventress is so low down on the Darkside totem pole.

Edited by Darth__Carnal
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Good Episode

 

I think its very possible it was Ashsoka's friend that was helping her escape; Barriss Ofee.

 

The quote about Ahsoka not sensing the other person is curious.

 

Perhaps palpatine did kill the chick in the room to frame Ahsoka but Barriss aided in the escape because she thought Ahsoka was guilty, IMO she seemed like she woudl have wanted revenge. Not a huge believer that is palpatine, but the inability to sense anyone else is something sidious is very good at. Then again see may not notice an ally like Barriss.

 

Ventress needs to make some appearance and I am interested to see that play out. Maybe Ahsoka will seek her out because she thinks she is behind the entire plot. Ventress is an awesome character and also an awesome link between the sith and the jedi, i oftern wonder just how much she knows. She may not know about Palpatine, but she may have generalized knowledge that the jedi and the republic are unknowingly under control of the Sith and that the entire war has been a fascade.

Edited by kirorx
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Ventress could have been hired, but not by the Republic. After all she did used to be a Separatist agent... I think if she was hired it would have been by Sidious, and anonymously.

 

Patriotic? I didn't really get those vibes from him.

 

I think we have opposite views on hiring here. I mean that the replic would happily say "500,000 credits for this Jedi captured, alive"

Anyone could try cash in on it, and centres wouldn't even have to let on that it was her...

 

Patriotic was the wrong word, dedicated maybe, dedicated to the clones more than anything...

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I watched the episode again and yeah you might be on to something..

 

My updated list of suspects are,

 

1. Barris Offee - Prime Suspect. Her and Ahsoka have talked about how radical Anakin and his methods are. Also I don't think Barris has fully recovered from the infection on Geonosis. She is emotional compromised, and she also as of late seems conflicted by the war.

 

2. Darth Maul - Highly possible. Stealth missions are his specialty, and Sidious wastes no time putting his minions to work once he acquires them. Maul could be working with Sidious with the hopes that maybe he can redeem himself and become Sidious apprentice again.

 

3. Darth Sidious - Not Likely. While fully capable of being able to Force Choke a person on the other side of the planet while attending a meeting with a room filled with Jedi, I don't think he would do mundane work like slip a access card into a prison room. Nor would he lower himself to beating up guards.

 

4. Ventress - Impossible. Ventress made a promise to herself that she would not be used or be manipulated by anyone. She is independent and works strictly for credits as a Bounty Hunter. She is not the Cad Bane type of Bounty Hunter who will gladly steal younglings for credits. She has principles now. Also, Darth Sidious would instantly kill her if he had the chance. He wants her dead and ordered Dooku to killl her. If he was willing to take out Maul, who was more powerful then Ventress, why would he align himself with Ventress is so low down on the Darkside totem pole.

I really think you should add Commander Fox to that list as prime suspect numero uno, his actions in that episode were extremely suspicious and make no sense. Also an inside agent would be needed to get Maul or whoever into the prison.

 

1. Bariss Offee - possible, but would she go as far as too attack her own Order? That seems very extreme for someone so dedicated to the Order. Also there is a sizeable amount of story on Offee after these events, including her demise during Order 66. But then again, maybe she'll be forgiven/redeemed...

 

2. I agree, Maul could be a suspect. But then again, getting him into the base undetected by both Jedi, clone and security cameras alike would be very difficult. Also he wouldn't be able to pose as a Jedi.

 

3. I agree again, I think Sidious is involved but he likely has some sort accomplice doing the dirty work for him. Then again... maybe not? Sidious is the only one who could pull of such feats in a straight up attack e.g. practically render himself invisible/undetectable.

 

4. True, but you need to explain Ventress' later appearance in the Coruscant undercity. Its possible she was hired anonymously to kill Ashoka. She has principles, but she hates Jedi and I doubt has any qualms killing Ashoka. But then again, if I recall she attacks Clone Troopers (only slicing their weapons) and doesn't actually kill Ashoka when she has the chance (at least it looks that way) So is it possible Ventress is only trying to subdue Ashoka and help her? But Ashoka doesn't listen because of Ventress' passed history? Maybe Ventress knows something.

 

I'm still betting Fox has something to do with this. But I think there's another person involved. Question is, like Tarkin says, how could a lightsaber wielding, force wielding individual infiltrate a secure facility and not be sensed or seen? If Fox is involved, maybe he helped the person get inside.

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I think we have opposite views on hiring here. I mean that the replic would happily say "500,000 credits for this Jedi captured, alive"

Anyone could try cash in on it, and centres wouldn't even have to let on that it was her...

 

Patriotic was the wrong word, dedicated maybe, dedicated to the clones more than anything...

OK I see, yeah it could play out that way. That would also explain why it looks like Ventress isn't actually trying to kill her, and is wearing a mask (to hide her identity.)

 

And yeah, he's a clone. But remember Slick? He betrayed his clones and worked as an informant for the Separatists. Also, if Sidious is involved. He could pull some sort of 'Order 66' to get Fox to comply. I mean, he is the Chancellor.

 

Still, if it isn't Fox - how to you explain all that suspicious stuff I mentioned?

 

EDIT: Crazy theory, Fox isn't Fox - he's been replaced by some sort of doppelganger and Sidious pawn!

Edited by Beniboybling
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Your right beni,

I'm re watching the episode now, and some things appear very suspicious.

The holo recording played to prove ahsokas guilt only shows her with her hands pointed at letta, it doesn't show the start when Ashoka is there with he arms crossed intently listening when she starts to get choked.

 

Their resistance to Anakin also makes me suspicious of them, who would act so aggressive to a general and stick to and admirals orders so intently? I get Tarken is military and skywalker is a Jedi, but still....

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