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DNT Discusses the Roadmap


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http://www.twitch.tv/fridge_sa/c/3663446

 

Here's our unstructured response to today's revelation of the path the game's PvE is taking this year. In short, we're quite disappointed that there's going to be such a drought of new ops.

 

Warning for strong language, strong opinions, and crass humor. This is typical of our stream though. :rak_03:

We wouldn't feel this way if we didn't like the game and have fun playing it together, don't mistake our passion for hatred.

Edited by FridgeLM
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inb4 the roadmap is mathematically impossible

 

That's a stupid response and you should feel bad.

 

Anyway everyone is disappointed, including some from hatred. Until something better comes along to bring members from this game everyone either grins and bears it or just leaves.

Edited by mastirkal
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Sadly, the Euros will probably get #1 when nightmare comes out. It's a DNT tradition going back to Nihilum.

 

I couldn't help but laugh.

 

Also, no ones cares. Nerds. Bads. None of you would have made it in the orginial DnT.

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Sadly, the Euros will probably get #1 when nightmare comes out. It's a DNT tradition going back to Nihilum.

 

Why it sad? If hatred doesn't get 1st I enjoy when Hoth does cause they have a IDGAF attitude.

 

 

OT: Good listen agreed with majority of it.

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I do think you're judging a bit to fast here. We all knew 2.6 wouldnt bring NiM. We now got the confirmation DF NiM is coming with the very NEXT patch. You really can't get it earlier than that.

Alltough 2.8 will be quite far away we really don't know much about it besides that we get another ops, DP NiM. Since bioware states it will be one of the biggest patches with the scope of RotHC you can assume new SM/HM opses too.

 

In short, I really don't see a shortage of opses. In the 1st half year we get 2 NiM opses and most likely 1 or 2 SM/HM opses.

Edited by fire-breath
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If you're playing this game due to raiding ... well, what else can I say at this point, you're doing it so wrong it becomes mathematically ... ok, let's not go there.

 

If you survived the drought of EC for one year, you'll survive this. Now that the development is split into "ground" game and GSF, it's only expected to see less focus on NiM.

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Its very hard not to make a TL;DR: Boo hoo reply. So lets not do that.

 

I do think you're judging a bit to fast here. We all knew 2.6 wouldnt bring NiM. We now got the confirmation DF NiM is coming with the very NEXT patch. You really can't get it earlier than that.

Alltough 2.8 will be quite far away we really don't know much about it besides that we get another ops, DP NiM. Since bioware states it will be one of the biggest patches with the scope of RotHC you can assume new SM/HM opses too.

 

In short, I really don't see a shortage of opses. In the 1st half year we get 2 NiM opses and most likely 1 or 2 SM/HM opses.

 

There have been multiple posts, plenty from myself why that would be not only a bad move, but would induce rage if they released a new tier at the same time as Nightmare content. It would either have the same or better gear, or lesser gear. They would be smart to hold off for at least nine weeks before releasing the next big operation. Though it's bioware and they might shoot themselves in the foot.

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If you're playing this game due to raiding ... well, what else can I say at this point, you're doing it so wrong it becomes mathematically ... ok, let's not go there.

 

If you survived the drought of EC for one year, you'll survive this. Now that the development is split into "ground" game and GSF, it's only expected to see less focus on NiM.

So who are bioware trying to please with this game? It for sure isn't PvP'ers, after how they got f*cked over. If not PvE'ers, then who? I'm starting to believe bioware just wants to give star wars fans a star wars game, instead of giving everyone a good game.

Edited by Amantino
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Our general consensus in DNT is that the nine week (two month) split between getting the other half of an entire tier is the worst part about the roadmap, because it screws up so many other things. Were 2.7 to have both DF/DP, the content cycle would flow more naturally to maybe having new ops in August - still a ten month delay, but better than the current plan such as it's been revealed to us.

 

Of course the plan as revealed to us already drops the ball by not having a new ops around March or the beginning of April. This is a pattern they've established since 1.2 when they brought out Explosive Conflict and ever since then they've released a new operation around every six months (actually earlier with level 50 TFB, which was about five months after EC).

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Well they didn't add it in the road map, but they probably plan on annoucing it soon, but they are currently working on lvl 60 content, with 2 new planets. Didn't get information on the raids, but i'd assume there will be 1 or 2 launched with it like they did ROTHC. Source wouldn't tell me what 2 planets, told me the devs have mentioned them before and to go looking for it, he had told me enough.

 

*reliable source*

Edited by Ceades_End_Game
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If you're playing this game due to raiding ... well, what else can I say at this point, you're doing it so wrong it becomes mathematically ... ok, let's not go there.

 

If you survived the drought of EC for one year, you'll survive this. Now that the development is split into "ground" game and GSF, it's only expected to see less focus on NiM.

 

There was no drought. EC was released on 4/12/2012, basically 5 months after launch. TfB came 9/26/2012, less than 6 months later, and was followed by NiM EC in November. April 2013 brought RotHC and S&V, less than 7 months after TfB, and an upgraded TfB. Their nightmare modes followed in June and July of 2013. And we all remember, DF and DP were released in October, 6 months after RotHC and S&V.

 

So in most cases, the NiM of operations has been released within a few months of the SM/HM release, with the exception of EC which was 7 months later, but we had TfB in the interim. And a brand new operation has appeared every 6 to 8 months.

 

In the case of DF/DP, they are releasing NiM 6 and 8 months after the HM version, and giving us nothing in the interim. Looking at the roadmap, it certainly appears that GSF remains their focus, to the detriment of all other types of gameplay.

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So who are bioware trying to please with this game? It for sure isn't PvP'ers, after how they got f*cked over. If not PvE'ers, then who? I'm starting to believe bioware just wants to give star wars fans a star wars game, instead of giving everyone a good game.

 

If Blizzard can't please hardcore raiders, then Bioware certainly can't please anyone ... just sayin' lol

 

Right now SWTOR is simply too "unfocused", everything is half-cocked, including their new brainchild GSF. Just the fact that they're splitting DF and DP NiM into two separate patches speaks volumes about their capacity (or lack thereof) for multi-tasking.

 

On top of that, there's also this latest trend of "tactical" flashpoints in which derp reigns supreme and in which tanks and healers are going the way of the dodo. SWTOR seems to be all over the place, trying to focus on so many thing but in the end delivering a mediocre MMO across the board.

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Yes, the only silver lining is the hint of an expansion. That isn't going to come until after 2.8 though, I would be very surprised if they released a new level cap and didn't call it 3.0.

 

Yeah IMO there is no way 2.8 will be the expansion/level cap increase, simply because it would mess things up for those of you that compete for world/server firsts, assuming that any of you are still around by then. :mad: It would be as daft as releasing a new operation at the same time as NiM DP.

 

The silver lining for me is that, whenever the expansion eventually does arrive, it seems likely to include 2 brand new operations on the scale of TfB/S&V. But honestly, wildstar is going to have to suck badly for me to renew my subscription to this game after it expires in May.

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If Blizzard can't please hardcore raiders, then Bioware certainly can't please anyone ... just sayin' lol

 

Right now SWTOR is simply too "unfocused", everything is half-cocked, including their new brainchild GSF. Just the fact that they're splitting DF and DP NiM into two separate patches speaks volumes about their capacity (or lack thereof) for multi-tasking.

 

On top of that, there's also this latest trend of "tactical" flashpoints in which derp reigns supreme and in which tanks and healers are going the way of the dodo. SWTOR seems to be all over the place, trying to focus on so many thing but in the end delivering a mediocre MMO across the board.

 

SWTOR is a jack of all trades, master of none for sure. We've got "meh" PvP, "meh" raiding, and a "meh" space minigame. The only place it really shines is in the class stories, but considering we're probably not going to get any more than we already have, I'm gonna call that a big "meh", too.

 

The disappointing part is that SWTOR's PvE has improved significantly over its lifetime, but splitting the tier is just a monumentally bad move. It pleases neither players not good enough to do NiM content (they will be bored because there are no new raids), or players who crave the NiM challenge.

 

I don't know if they're doing it because they want to artificially gate progression or if it's because they honestly don't have the manpower to release all the bosses at once, but either way it's not a good sign.

 

Say what you want about WoW, but the fact that it's still got the best raiding game out of the MMO's I've played is impressive, though I won't deny that the game overall feels like it's declined significantly since the "glory days".

Edited by Beslley
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So you throw F bombs to level 50 healers trying to heal your tank,(which they think is their job) instead of explaining them why they should switch to DPS, very mature dude.

 

Great, on-topic post there. That discussion was definitely the focus of the video.

 

Also I don't know who you even think you're addressing - I was on camera, and you can tell I didn't say that.

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i didnt bother listening since my connection sucks for twitch >.<... anyways i will probably agree the delay for nightmare sucks.

 

i dont agree the "split between operations" is a bad idea, this is the first time we actually have 2 "same Story Arc" Ops, TFB / SaV doesnt count, when they both came together everyone in all servers agreed HM TFB was less important than SaV since it was done at lvl 50. and after that they released NiM TFB and NiM SaV later so they following exactly the same thing, with exactly the same split on gear. so i honestly dont know what you guys are complaining about in this specific topic.

 

just because they are "the same story" doesnt mean they are the same operation and i think what they did is actually good. we will be safe from the 2 weeks 100 page discussion of "what operation to do first" we will be saved of when we get a "hard" boss, Certain guilds Skip it or start farming other instance easy Bosses for gear just because "World Progression Thread rules doesnt count" and then claim World firsts. so ill disagree with you. The split on Operation is the same they have done before, and in my opinion, will help the community a lot more than both together, i still didnt know how we were going to manage organizing the Progress Thread with both operations. and after TFB HM we all know how guilds can cheat and dont give a **** about it just for website fake headline.

 

So Bottom line, i agree the wait is long (and it does suck) but it seems like they working on something big, if we manage to make it up to NiM DF, that will take the two months of farming for gear, then DP progress comes with new FP and a new story arc operation / FP that will probably be good. new PvP, apparently new minigame expansion, a whole new expansion so lets expect new lvl cap. new abilities. new Gear. New Operations and who knows, they said big news right? there might be some guild features, new class, new race. If bioware wants to do something great they have to come up with something great for the expansion. After all they just gave us release date on what we knew was coming, we knew about NiM, Quesh Huttball and FPs from data mine so nothing is new, its just release date, they didnt give any info or hint about what is actually new that they are working at, that they say its "huge" and biggest update yet.

 

I would say this break until DF NiM will be long but MIGHT be worth it, if they come up with something great with the new content. Considering the fail ESO and Wildstar will be IMO, i dont see much competition, WStar is just a hype because they say "70% of the devs are working on End game" while the rest of the game sucks, once their operations open we will see if it is a hype or not, also the 40 man stuff will take way more WoW players than Swtor, so i dont see neither of this games being a threat at all for Swtor i see everyone that post "Wildstar is looking really good" coming 2 months later the same way they did with GW2 and FF. Swtor has a very unique game style with Stories and voiced quests, Legacy and Alts that raised the bar very high in this aspect, after you play in Wstar beta or watch stream, the first thing you think is "how am i going to lvl to 50 with this crap", no story, no voice, repetitive quests. So the Core Swtor community, wants Swtor Content, not a new game :S.

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So in any topic even tangentially related to DNT, are you going to constantly, literally constantly, bring up how butthurt you are about TFB?

 

Because you're getting really tiresome. Nobody cheated. News posts are not "fake." Forum thread rules do not invalidate kills that actually happened. It's attitudes like yours that make me, and many others in DNT, dismissive of progress tracker threads in general. "Oh you guys switched instances to kill Tyrans instead of Draxus and we've since found out Draxus is harder so your kill doesn't count." That's basically the attitude going around and it's really really stupid.

 

Unless somebody literally cheats during a boss fight by exploiting game mechanics in a manner unintended by the designers, we feel their kills should count. i.e. if, say, they find a way to burn Tyrans with his own inferno or whatever. Any other rules represent the threat of corruption in the system - in my opinion, the reason you and others like you feel the way you do is because you want to delegitimize actual competition.

 

If you'd just adopt our attitude towards progress you would never have to engage in a stupid discussion of what operation to do first. You know, when Burning Crusade released there were two entire tiers available at the new max level and the top tier had two separate instances with parallel progression. Somehow, the WoW community was able to make sense of it. SWTOR's PvE community needs to get on the level of maturity of 2007's WoW community.

 

The split is not the same and the previous split wasn't good either. It's just artificial stretching of content and it's insulting to our intelligence to think we're going to be satisfied with dribbles of content that will, by June, be eight months old with an extra mechanic or two and more HP/Damage.

Edited by FridgeLM
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At around 25m you made really good points that I completely agree with; having no new SM/HM raids before the next expansion is extremely risky for the health of the game.

 

My raid team is a perfect example here. Due to turnover, holidays, and generally just being quite a bit more casual than DNT and other competitive guilds, we have finally within the last few weeks started to get full clears of both DF and DP HM. So your guildies would call us sh*tties, a term which I assume is used affectionately. :-)

 

When NiM arrives, we will certainly poke our heads in, but I don't honestly expect us to clear them in any short amount of time, and quite likely won't do so before the next tier of HM gear is out. So we will go in, hit a wall, kick it down to HM and clear until we get to an easier boss, or just full clear so we have done something, anything, as a team for the week.

 

But that isn't exactly going to be interesting for us, and I don't see how I can generate any level of enthusiasm for our team given the current plans. Flashpoints have always been pretty easy, and never part of the endgame gearing progression. While they can be an interesting diversion between raids, they are not a replacement for them. At least the hardcore raiders will have some new mechanics to chew on for a couple of weeks, and a new tier of gear to progress to. As bleak as the roadmap is for you, it's even worse on this side of the fence. The only things I can hope for is that the new Korriban/Tython FPs are as difficult as LI was at launch, and that the expansion is no later than October.

 

So like you, I expect a lot of people are going to have to question why they are continuing to subscribe when there is nothing new or interesting to do. Up until this roadmap, I had intended to check out Wildstar, but keep raiding in ToR. Now, I just don't know.

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Based on the latest EA earnings report majority of this game's revenue comes from Cartel Market. I believe people whop mostly spend money in Cartel Market is the lowest level casual player who is attached to Star Wars concept/brand and prefer to play only easiest content. Bioware now is shaping up the game for that audience. Those guys like to play dailies, Gree, Rahgoul type of events. They don't even play FPs because they do not know how to tank, heal or effective DPS, hence the role neutral FPs.

 

It maybe hard to accept but this is not a game for hardcore raider. (Darn it is not even for an amateur raider) This game will be dumbed down with one purpose, milking the CM spending audience.

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