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One planet is not an expansion


Darth-Rammstein

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When Trials of Obiwan dropped, Sony simply gave SWG players one planet. When Burning Crusade dropped, Blizzard simply gave players one planet.

 

This is what MMO companies have been doing for years. I don't see what's wrong with it.

 

well with Obiwan we got a huge planet with tuns of quests and places to explore and we got new mounts and speeders... dont think we got any new armor but i cant be sure. but i do think we got new guns and weapons along with a bunch of stuff for crafters to make along with new materials, we also got a new slot for an extra toon. before that we got a new planet that even though it was smaller than the other planets we had it was bigger than any one we have now, plus more mounts, new armor, a new race... err wait when did we get the Ithorians?? that was Kashyyk right?? before that we got SPACE!!! tuns and tuns of space!!!!!! and i could be wrong but all those expansions were only 30 bucks

 

Burning crusade we got two new zones and two new races... nuff said about that and the same goes for all the other WOW expansions not to mention tuns of new armor and weapons.

 

you can say that TOR's expansion is good enough for 10 bucks but remember that's only for subs the real price is 20, so let me ask you this would you pay $20 for an expansion that only gave you one planet (thats not really all that big in comparison to other games) 5 extra levels and a couple of extra things for end game play?? to me that sounds like a $10 dlc and thats for the non subbers. now if the new race was a part of the expansion then yea i can see maybe $20 bucks but that is still pushing it!!!

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well with Obiwan we got a huge planet with tuns of quests and places to explore and we got new mounts and speeders... dont think we got any new armor but i cant be sure. but i do think we got new guns and weapons along with a bunch of stuff for crafters to make along with new materials, we also got a new slot for an extra toon. before that we got a new planet that even though it was smaller than the other planets we had it was bigger than any one we have now, plus more mounts, new armor, a new race... err wait when did we get the Ithorians?? that was Kashyyk right?? before that we got SPACE!!! tuns and tuns of space!!!!!! and i could be wrong but all those expansions were only 30 bucks

 

Burning crusade we got two new zones and two new races... nuff said about that and the same goes for all the other WOW expansions not to mention tuns of new armor and weapons.

 

you can say that TOR's expansion is good enough for 10 bucks but remember that's only for subs the real price is 20, so let me ask you this would you pay $20 for an expansion that only gave you one planet (thats not really all that big in comparison to other games) 5 extra levels and a couple of extra things for end game play?? to me that sounds like a $10 dlc and thats for the non subbers. now if the new race was a part of the expansion then yea i can see maybe $20 bucks but that is still pushing it!!!

 

It's probably safe to assume ROTHC could be more comparable to Trials of Obi-Wan. Of course we can't truely say that until all of Rise's features have been revealed. Still an expansion that contains a new explorable world and probably costs less than Obi-Wan, I think that's fair enough.

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It's probably safe to assume ROTHC could be more comparable to Trials of Obi-Wan. Of course we can't truely say that until all of Rise's features have been revealed. Still an expansion that contains a new explorable world and probably costs less than Obi-Wan, I think that's fair enough.

 

dont know bout that. the planet we got with Obi is about the same size as two large planets in TOR if not bigger, and again we got tuns of new things to make, new speeders and new mounts, a second slot for an extra toon, new player homes, a tun of new quests all for $20 actually here http://swg.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars_Galaxies:_Trials_of_Obi-Wan there is a link that tells ya some of the stuff we got for the same price as what they charging for TOR's new expansion

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You will note I said "It'd take ME quite a while.". I'm not a speeder. I don't rush though content then whine that there's nothing to do. I level up at a normal pace. I go though content at a normal pace.

 

Let's put it in perspective. Mists of Pandaria. I was starting to get "X had earned [server First level 90]" style achievements within 5 or 10 hours of the expansion coming out.I hit level 90 after two weeks, like most people.

 

People who rush though the content of a story driven MMO need to have their head examined. That's all I can say about that. Don't space bar your way though the dialogue. Take the time to examine your surroundings. Explore. Take part in the new flashpoint(s) and warzone(s), or even space missions if it comes with them. Level professions.

 

well im prolly one of the slowest levelers there is... took me almost a year to max level my first hunter in Cat, and that was also only 5 levels, but im one of those people that like to explore and hunt things like rare pets and other nifty things... unfortunately we cant explore in TOR so i find my self leveling a lot faster in this game than in any other game i have ever played. so this new expansion will prolly last me about 2 days max and thats only playing for a couple hours after i get off work... unless the story is slow and boring then maybe a full week and thats because ill just go to one of my alts.

 

in the one month ive been back to this game i have leveled my BH from level 2 up to 35 or 37.. cant remember ..before i came back my highest level guy was my Jedi and he was level 17... he is now level 20... that is crazy!!!! i have never leveled a toon that fast in any other MMO and i did it all SOLO where as in all the other games i have played i would be in groups about 50% of the time and still took for ever to level up.

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The issue here is not about:

- the content of the so-called expansion

- the amount of money it is being charged for

 

The issue is that Makeb was developped with our 2012 subscription money and planned as being included in that subscription model.

 

I understand that F2P came crashing in the middle of summer and sent all developers working on F2P instead of Makeb, but it's still the subscribers money that went into both projects.

 

Making subscribers pay a second time for something they've already paid is really a low blow to people who've supported the game throughout the year and I don't intend to give anymore money to Bioscrooge for Makeb.

 

Unlike other MMO expansions where the money comes from finance fairies!

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In every subscription MMO I've played their REAL expansions cost money.

 

There I fixed that for you....until it adds 4 more planets, 7-10 new Flashpoints, 2 Ops, 2 Warzones, and a new Class It is not actually an expansion that is worthy of those other expansions you are talking about :)

Edited by Trevalon
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SImply put, we don't know enough to compare RotHC to something like a WoW expansion.

Very much true, so we cannot compare it either way of the argument really. We simply don't know enough yet. Spring 2013, after the launch, we can make a good and honest debate about if the expansion was worth our $10-$20. Until then, all we can do is speculate one way or the other on the information we do have.

 

And trying to compare the value of an expansion or content patch based on how long it takes to do the missions / quests and reach level cap is just silly and irrelevant.

I debate that it is not irrelevant because the levelling is the most enjoyable part of TOR. Yes, you are right when you say below that TOR levelling alts is a huge drag if you go through the same planet quests for the 2nd or 3rd time. But either changing faction or doing alternative actions than planet quests to level (like more flashpoints or PVP or using XP boosts) is a very viable strategy in this game as well.

Concerning the point of WoW levelling as well: You can indeed be in a different area. But in for the most part you keep doing the same types quests even in those different areas. Although 1-60 became a nice experience with Cataclysm, it too still has the "kill 10 boars" "gather 10 plants" etc quests very often. Then again, that is how nearly all MMO's or even nearly all RPG's in general are set up. And those that arent like, say, Mass Effect or TSW, have their own levelling issues. Either being too vague/hard for the majority of players or basicly being a corridor filled with enemies as the only type of challenge you get.

WoW levelling, at this time, also has three glaring issues: Earlier expansions. In Cataclysm the old world levelling game was streamlined, but once you hit 60 that comes to a grinding halt and you are back for about 20-25 levels of the same old quests. The amount of different levelling paths in those expansions is also very, very limited.

TOR at least, when it comes to levelling replayability, has the upside of story and dialogues making it slightly interesting throughout the entire thing. Even rolling the same class can be a completely different experience when you choose one of the 3 different 'versions' of each class (evil bastard, goody goody angel or somewhere in the middle).

 

So really, to me, both games have their own ups and down in alt levelling. And I personally prefer TOR's downsides over WoW's.

 

What will matter is how much total new content is added, how long it keeps us engaged, and how much replay value it delivers.

This I 100% agree with. For me, I still think we will get an announcement for a new Flashpoint series (like the rakghoul ones) of 2 to 4 FPs and an Ops (maybe even an Ops series eventually like we have now) to round up the entire Makeb story. But unless we get that, we will level to 55 and then go back to the same old endgame and no variation. This would be a huge mistake.

I will reserve judgement on this until Makeb is actually launched, but we agree that this is an important aspect of it being worth the money or not.

 

And just for the record, the last WoW expansion added a new continent with six or seven full zones (zones being similar to planets), a new race with its own starting area, a new class, three raids, two world bosses, multiple daily zones, five dungeons, three existing dungeons updated and given a level cap version, pet battles, player farms, a complete update to the talent system, new class abilities, and two battlegrounds.

Also for a lot more money and with a two year time between then and the last expansion as well as a full year of no new content added. Blizzard is a development team with years of experience churning out content for their MMO so having a good cycle that has went through it's early growing pains, unlike the startup Bioware team you can expect Blizzard to work more efficiently on their expansions.

Still, fact is that it still costs more money. And we don't know what 'new systems' will also be added with Makeb. Again, we cannot judge this untill Spring 2013.

 

When we get the details of what will be included in RotHC, we can then start to compare and see how it stacks up to such an expansion in total content and replay-ability and start making comparisons on the relative value of each (which will obviously still have personal biases in the value weighting of the content that is added).

Agree here. For the 10 dollars I expect at least 2 mildly unique stories in Makeb, 1 for Republic 1 for Empire. I expect a rebalancing of classes and abilities because of the 5 new levels and new abilities, making both PVE and PVP feel a bit more fresh. I also expect some flashpoints and 1 ops. That would be acceptable for me personally. Acceptable being far from good I admit.

To make it good, what needs to be added is:

- New gear looks unique to Makeb and not only obtainable through Ops/PVP and/or Cartel Store.

- Part of the "new systems" being at least 1 new mini game like Pazaak, other gambling, or Swoop Racing. All of these fit the Hutt theme good as well.

- At least 1 new World Boss, considering it is a paid planet 2 or more would be better.

- Part of the "new systems" being changes to the current limitation of crafters of what gear they can make in moddable versions (my preferred solution is making all crafted gear Orange quality and making the more unique versions that needs blues or purples come with better mods in them)

- Part of the "new systems" being the promised 'smoothing out of the gear curve', stopping the immense power creep this game has in both PVE and PVP. With the amount of new tiers launched in one year (starting with 3 tiers, now we have 5 tiers of PVE gear) it is key for the future of this game to even it out and Makeb would be the perfect time to do this.

- BONUS: 1 new, faction specific, companion for each faction.

 

That's what I will measure the succes of Makeb on. And as said: What is announced now is, for me, acceptable for the money I pay. But it won't make make me feel very happy unless some of the other things mentioned also come out with it.

Edited by Devlonir
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Got mail from RIFT about their Storm Legion expansion:

 

Battle massive, world-changing colossi for epic loot

 

Ascend to level 60 and wield the power of 4 new Souls

 

Adventure across two new continents tripling the size of the world

 

Thats an expansion.

 

1 planet? Increase the world size by 1/17th? Pffft no thank you.

Edited by Lucyfer_Infinity
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In every subscription MMO I've played their expansions cost money.

 

but this is no longer a subscription MMO its free to play!!! or did you forget that bit?? it just has an option for you to subscribe to get some extra perks.

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but this is no longer a subscription MMO its free to play!!! or did you forget that bit?? it just has an option for you to subscribe to get some extra perks.

 

You are confused, because you can get up to level 50 for free, doesnt make the game entirely FTP... unless you like to level up alts all the time, which is not what mmo players really looking for.

FTP is there to make you subscribe or buy cartel items.

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Makeb MIGHT be an expansion, but if its lacking in quality and quantity then it'll simply hurt EAs profits the next time time they punt out DLC.

 

There will be people who like it, hopefully this will be justified. If not, lets hope even more people see it for what it really is.

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You are confused, because you can get up to level 50 for free, doesnt make the game entirely FTP... unless you like to level up alts all the time, which is not what mmo players really looking for.

FTP is there to make you subscribe or buy cartel items.

 

you can buy all the stuff you are missing by being FTP in the cartel shop, in that since its just like any other FTPMMO except you cant buy gear that is more powerful than what you can loot. and like i said above this is a free to play mmo with the option to subscribe to get the extras "for free"

 

but i am confused by what you ment about that you can level up to 50 for free but it dont make the game entirely FTP... also the bit about liking to level up alts all the time... i think im missing your point there kuz most people i know that play mmos have tuns of alt on multiple servers that they like to level up..

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What I don't like is Bioware is like hey we got this new exciting content planned and we're even going to give it to you for half price if you pre order but we can't show you or tell you anything about it. Seriously?!

Bioware I would like to sell you a car it's the most awesome car ever for $30000 dollars. Which is half of what I should charge for it but I'm afraid you can't test it out or look at it before you bought it but you can trust me right I said it was the most awesome car ever that should be good enough to go on don't you agree?:jawa_angel:

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wow i can believe all the butt hurt people over this expansion its very simple they gave us a basic outline on what to expect more levels more abilities new planet comparable to taris hoth or tatoonie they gave subscribers til jan 7 to save 10 dollars didn't have to do this they could of easily charged everyone 20 dollars so be thankful for that because for 10 dollars even if it ends up being a dlc type addition which is what they should of called it this new addition will probably provide more content then most dlc/expansion at the 10 dollar - 20 dollar price range and again very simple you don't know what else could be included so if you dont feel like blindly paying 10 dollars for the info they gave you then wait for more spend the 20 dollars or dont i really dont care just get over the whole entitlement of how they should tell us everything
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you can buy all the stuff you are missing by being FTP in the cartel shop, in that since its just like any other FTPMMO except you cant buy gear that is more powerful than what you can loot. and like i said above this is a free to play mmo with the option to subscribe to get the extras "for free"

 

but i am confused by what you ment about that you can level up to 50 for free but it dont make the game entirely FTP... also the bit about liking to level up alts all the time... i think im missing your point there kuz most people i know that play mmos have tuns of alt on multiple servers that they like to level up..

 

Then it's not FREE is it?

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well with Obiwan we got a huge planet FALSE

with tuns of quests I would not call TOW "tons of quests" by any stretch of the imaginationand places to explore Nor this

and we got new mounts and speeders...1 new speeder that you had to quest for unless you pre-ordered, and 1 mount that was slower than all the others with 1 other that needed to be bio-engineered

dont think we got any new armor but i cant be surecrap armor that had to be created in the cube with loot from bosses and 2 loot robes that were obsolete within 6 months of the update.

but i do think we got new guns and weapons loot drop weapons were substandard, created ones were also substandard for 2 years until weapon crafting was revamped

along with a bunch of stuff for crafters to make along with new materialsthe cube was NOT crafting,

we also got a new slot for an extra toon.No you did not, you got that 6 months later when SOE was trying to save the game after NGE almost killed it

before that we got a new planet that even though it was smaller than the other planets we had it was bigger than any one we have now, plus more mounts, new armor, a new race... err wait when did we get the Ithorians?? that was Kashyyk right??While better than TOR, still not the most ground-breaking expansion ever, and only seemed big because it was SWG's first experimentation with instanced zones

before that we got SPACE!!! tuns and tuns of space!!!!!! Here I have no argument, not only space (including all the crafting to go with it) but the DWB, 3 species and lots of other stuff

and i could be wrong but all those expansions were only 30 bucks They all cost $30+ each, and the only one that had more to offer than one planet was JTL, and yet you happily paid that for all of them????

you can say that TOR's expansion is good enough for 10 bucks but remember that's only for subs the real price is 20, so let me ask you this would you pay $20 for an expansion that only gave you one planet (thats not really all that big in comparison to other games) 5 extra levels and a couple of extra things for end game play?? to me that sounds like a $10 dlc and thats for the non subbers. now if the new race was a part of the expansion then yea i can see maybe $20 bucks but that is still pushing it!!!But, you're a subscriber so it will only cost you $10 so your argument really isn't all that valid. And when you were paying $30 each for ROTW and TOW you were also paying $15 a month just to play SWG

 

 

Let us please try to keep it real, thank you

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or dont i really dont care just get over the whole entitlement of how they should tell us everything

 

So you're not entitled to know what you're buying? I wonder what utopia dictatorship you live under that makes you so trusting. Is it really to much to ask for a few pictures or possibly a video to see what they're offering?

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Continue your Star Wars™ saga with a new level cap of 55.

Experience new epic story content with fully-voiced cinematic conversations.

New Planet: Makeb - Explore a vibrant alien landscape.

 

 

more than enough info for me to pre order something for 10 dollars that will be 20 dollars for everyone else that is a complete idiot that sits and waits because they want every little detail they can't figure out things for themselves

 

like for example with what we know im sure they will add more gear more ops more world bosses more flash points is it really that hard to grasp even though they don't tell you everything by now people should have some idea what this would include and draw up their own conclusions and if they can't then wait either spend the 20 dollars when we know exactly what it will include then by that time everyone will comeback here saying i should of only had to pay 10 dollars because i was idiot and wanted to know every single detail about the expansion

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So you're not entitled to know what you're buying? I wonder what utopia dictatorship you live under that makes you so trusting. Is it really to much to ask for a few pictures or possibly a video to see what they're offering?

 

I'm sure they'll give us plenty of details about Makeb....long after the deadline for pre order bonus is gone.

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Continue your Star Wars™ saga with a new level cap of 55.

Experience new epic story content with fully-voiced cinematic conversations.

New Planet: Makeb - Explore a vibrant alien landscape.

 

 

more than enough info for me to pre order something for 10 dollars that will be 20 dollars for everyone else that is a complete idiot that sits and waits because they want every little detail they can't figure out things for themselves

 

like for example with what we know im sure they will add more gear more ops more world bosses more flash points is it really that hard to grasp even though they don't tell you everything by now people should have some idea what this would include and draw up their own conclusions and if they can't then wait either spend the 20 dollars when we know exactly what it will include then by that time everyone will comeback here saying i should of only had to pay 10 dollars because i was idiot and wanted to know every single detail about the expansion

 

Or it could just be another grind with rehashed gear and one extra ability that forces a player to burn their money to maintain the status quo.

It's not the money that bothers me as the principle I don't particularly want to support a shoddy crafted expansion that took little effort to construct. With little to go on I can't make an informed decision of whether it is or isn't constructed well. So I'm left with another gamble like the cartel packs which I might add are a total waste of money.

Edited by VonFoxFire
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What I don't like is Bioware is like hey we got this new exciting content planned and we're even going to give it to you for half price if you pre order but we can't show you or tell you anything about it. Seriously?!

Bioware I would like to sell you a car it's the most awesome car ever for $30000 dollars. Which is half of what I should charge for it but I'm afraid you can't test it out or look at it before you bought it but you can trust me right I said it was the most awesome car ever that should be good enough to go on don't you agree?:jawa_angel:

 

good god, you are talking about $10.00 the price of a bad meal at McDonalds. Can you not just assume it will be the same quality and entertianment that we have gotten thru the first 50 levels??

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Where do you see that the price goes up to $20 for subscriber if you do not pre-order? When I look in the FAQ all it says is that pre-order gives 5 days early access.

 

Continue your Star Wars™ saga with a new level cap of 55.

Experience new epic story content with fully-voiced cinematic conversations.

New Planet: Makeb - Explore a vibrant alien landscape.

 

 

more than enough info for me to pre order something for 10 dollars that will be 20 dollars for everyone else that is a complete idiot that sits and waits because they want every little detail they can't figure out things for themselves

 

like for example with what we know im sure they will add more gear more ops more world bosses more flash points is it really that hard to grasp even though they don't tell you everything by now people should have some idea what this would include and draw up their own conclusions and if they can't then wait either spend the 20 dollars when we know exactly what it will include then by that time everyone will comeback here saying i should of only had to pay 10 dollars because i was idiot and wanted to know every single detail about the expansion

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