Amen, a low blow.

Also seems to be whole society now where Christmas is about $$$

Jesus is not amused.

It's not a copout. I simply don't have an opinion one way or the other, because I do not care one way or the other, and so will not attempt to gaze in the crystal ball. It seems it's a moot point now anyway...

I win the bet btw:

Hey folks!

 

While we're definitely excited about the new Life Day items in the Cartel Market, I wanted to make sure that you all knew that we do not have an in-game event planned for this. However, this doesn't mean that we don't have any in-game events planned for the future! We'll have more information for you sometime after the holidays.

 

Thank you!

Of course MM isn't good - as a player you always want to see a game continue to kick out content, but unless it be fan made mods, no game has ever done that ad infinitum. Therefore, is the content that is already there enough to keep the core playerbase with the whales around. GW1 has proven that it can for half of it's life already. In terms of SWTOR, it will for me. For anyone else, that's purely up to them. Clearly, SWTOR is not in MM yet and they are apparently still working on the SSSP. If that comes to fruition, I dare say that there will be more than enough to keep the core fanbase engaged for a few more years when MM does hit - same as it did for SWG.

 

BJ

That is they way I see things going if they try to keep selling things twice.

These items are no different than any other Cartel shop items. They are not available otherwise and you must pay for these optional items. They add fun and amusement and go above and beyond what you get for subscribing.

 

That they are "holiday related" only increases their appeal. That means people will be more likely to want them. That means that people will be more likely to buy them.

 

OMG, what is this company thinking... wanting people to buy stuff so they can make some money?!?

I think they are different, they aren't just cosmetic items, they a Holiday themed items, the sort of thing subscribers would get included in their subscription in most, if not all, SWTOR competitors.

Whenever a bug on my food affects my in game play I'll get an answer for you.

Bug on food not so ridiculous. Crying about price on digital items you don't need. Very much ridiculous.

It's precisely as ridiculous or not ridculous depending on your point of view as complaining about anything else you dislike, after all a dead bug on your steak would technically be a freebie and added protien.

Depends, are you complaining about price and time limits or an alternate path through an in game event? If it's the later then yea we can agree. If its the former or both, then no not fully cause of what I have been reading you're all over the board on complaints today. EA, BW, time limits, price to high - you get my point I'm sure.

I think there should be an alternative way first and foremost

If there isn't then it is far, far, faaaaaaaaaaaaar too expensive.

So we agree.

I can agree with that. Only having it in store is much more a problem than the crying about the cost or time frame. I am shocked there is no way at this time to play the game through a subscription and hit a world event.

There is no world event, and who is to say if there was we wouldn't have to pay extra for that too?

Look on the bright side. Still time to change X-Mas Wish List for many.

Those individuals asking for Cartel Coin X-MAS gifts can change them to GW2, Rift or WOW market cost items instead.

I'm just saying... I'd rather have a $40 gift card for something that brings me more value. BW is in the same business to make money and that's cool, but customers (Even faithful ones) are going to look for best value.

Right now.. Life in Day costs and Ship Parts costs are just plain crazy. I'll pass on 98% of them and see how the whole "Ninja XP Nerf" that is rumored showing up in PVP pans out.

- BW you are really going downhill in PR lately and this patch just continued to make it worse IMHO.

Hence why I said any event items would be slight recolors. They can still sell the stuff on the CM but satisfy people who don't want to spend CC. Sure people who shelled out cash will be upset that someone has a near identical item but it's a matter of personal opinion of whether that's a rip off or not (keep in mind no where in the purchase does it say a reskin of this item will not be made available). Personally I don't think it would be a rip off since the people who get a reskin in a World Event still don't have the exact same item as the CM thing and you paid to get the CM item, not to have exclusive access to an item that would never under any circumstances have a doppelganger reskin.

 

And as I said an event can still earn them money because it then makes purchasing the Event Equipment Unlock actually serve a purpose since right now it's just a waste of space since there are no events. So a World Event still has the potential to earn them money even though it would appear to be giving items out for free.

It's fairly moot now anyway there have stated THERE IS NO LIFE DAY EVENT PLANNED.

I comprehend that. My point was that many assumed prices would never be low enough on non-limited time only items to be bought without saving up for months on end. Why should limited time items then be items you don't have to save up for in advance or shell out cash to get? It would completely defy logic having non-limited time items priced so high you have to save up CC for 4 months but a limited-time-super-special-this-day-only item as buyable with 1-2 months worth of CC. I've never heard of limited time items being priced as significantly less than non-limited time items in any sort of market, game or real world.

 

People should have KNOWN that limited time items would be priced as high or higher than regular CM items because that's how ALL limited time items work even in the real world.

 

And as I've said if they plan to have a World Event they will in no way advertise this because that would decrease sales as people wait for the World Event to get things for free instead of being impatient and buying now. People are assuming that because the devs aren't talking about a World Event that there won't be one when it could all be part of a careful marketing strategy. Now maybe I'll be proved wrong when the New Year comes and no World Event happened but until then I'm not going to moan about no event when it would clearly be a marketing folly to advertise it as giving access to items for free when you are trying to sell them for cash too.

Sorry but that is utter nonsense how could anybody have possibly known that there'd:

1. Be time limited items for Life Day.

2. That they'd cost 4 months worth of 6 month rate subscription coins per character.

No one could have possibly have know either, and it is a nonsense and somewhat insulting to suggest that it is somehow the subscribers "fault" for not know that.

In fact given the cost of the pack and the maxium rate of coin gain for a 6 month subsciber it is simply not possible for subscriber to have saved up for more than ONE pack, even if they had know about this from the Live date.

Since when has the gaming industry been about anything but the money? And don't say Indie devs are all about the game and not the money, because while there are those dedicated few who only do it for the enjoyment of it, there are plenty Indies out there doing it for the money or to get enough street cred to be employeed by the Evil Nasty Corporate Empire. The naivety of the gaming populace never ceases to astound!!

 

BJ

Every business is about making a profit. There is no question about that. There were times though ( not long ago) were most of these game producers were small companies. You know we had ATARI and then a big gap then NINTENDO and in between those many small enterprises wanting to come up with the next big thing.

I bring this up in context to the point you were making. There were days , not long ago, were the emphasis on game development was around creating markets. In those days producers focused more about attracting customers with new and unique content. Those days are gone. The EQ/Wow genre has matured and is the current unshakable standard. What we have now is a known formula to attract costumers and maintain a business... the only thing that seems to currently evolve/grow are the subscription/sales strategies around the actual game and how to maximize profits/minimize risks based on those... thus the statement " it is all about the money"

It is all part of the great natural cycle of capitalism imho. Who knows, we may live to see the next big thing when it comes to gaming?

I agree that, since they say they want to continue to reward subscribers, they should have picked out at least one cool item and gave it out as a free gift (fireworks don't count, that's for the 1 year celebration). Other than that I don't really care, if people REALLY want some cheesy holiday fluff, knock yourself out.

I think what's upsetting people the most is that because of the item leaks earlier people just assumed there would be an event tied to Life Day, but there isn't, nor was it ever announced that there would be.

SWTOR is almost out for a whole YEAR! Looking at all of the content they have released I am quite frankly amazed that I'm still enjoying this game to this day.

I am amazed that they developed so many new items and "events" that I have to pay extra for. That subscription fee we've been paying? Oh you know those 13 euro a month are just for upkeep of the service, please don't expect updates to the game itself.

Oh well I guess we should be happy that even if we do not get any updates to the game itself...we can at least buy feast day items if we pay an amount of money equivalent to a month of playtime for them:rolleyes:.

Game update 1.6! Can't wait what's in it! Just a warzone? Guess it's better than nothing.... oh look and another gambling box for the cartel shop filled with many new and exciting items that we have to pay for without even knowing if we'll get what we want!

Yes a bright future indeed:(

I agree that, since they say they want to continue to reward subscribers, they should have picked out at least one cool item and gave it out as a free gift (fireworks don't count, that's for the 1 year celebration). Other than that I don't really care, if people REALLY want some cheesy holiday fluff, knock yourself out.

 

I think what's upsetting people the most is that because of the item leaks earlier people just assumed there would be an event tied to Life Day, but there isn't, nor was it ever announced that there would be.

BW: But selling items on the cartel market is way easier than setting up a world event! You just need to recolor existing armor sets and put them on the market! No more need to design maps, quests, or fight mechanisms! We can release new content - oh wait, p2w gear - every week instead of every three months!

/sarcasm ends

SNIP...

It's precisely as ridiculous or not ridculous depending on your point of view as complaining about anything else you dislike, after all a dead bug on your steak would technically be a freebie and added protien.

No point of view to it. Bugs on food warrents a complaint.

Digital item that has no affect on the game you pay for and you have no need to get it beyond self indulgence - No so much.

I think there should be an alternative way first and foremost

We agree here.

If there isn't then it is far, far, faaaaaaaaaaaaar too expensive.

Not at all here.

So we agree.

50/50 at best.

There is no world event, and who is to say if there was we wouldn't have to pay extra for that too?

Was there ever an announcement of a Life day event or was that a player imagined, "We hope it will happen" thing?

Either way, the last thing we need is having to listen fear mongering and complaints about things that might or might not happen in the future? For all you know there going to charge you extra for that spider on your steak.

If any of you have played any major MMORPG released within the last 10-12 years, you will no doubt realize how much we're being ripped off by BioWare and EA with having to pay for holiday themed items. In almost every game items similar to the Life Day orb or the Life Day tree, they are given free to all subscribers. On top of that, things that impact gameplay like speeders aren't the norm and shouldn't really be considered "Life Day" at all. I have been a subscriber to the game since launch and I've been in the beta for up to a year before that. I made a conscious choice to come back to SWTOR because I think it was and still is a great game.

However I will not purchase items in the cartel market that have been traditionally considered a gratuitous expression of thanks from developers to their customers, on specific holidays. Every major mmo has given these items for free or made them freely available. BioWare needs to stop trying to milk every dime it can from me, because it's making me less likely to buy anything else from their cartel market. Also, it's been 30 days since I got any cartel coins. Does this mean if I bought a 60 day card, I have to wait until my time is up and buy more time before I see anything added to my ledger? If so, you just lost a subscriber.....

They're not milking anything from you. Buy it or don't buy it there is no milking. I think the stuff is all garbage and would never consider spending anthing but my monthly allowance and find it laughable that people actually do.

I care about 1 thing, content and fixes for my monthly subscription fee, so far besides the 5 months that gave 0 content they're doing ok since F2P if they keep rolling content I'll be happy, and if that content is a result of dummies buying gambling boxes so be it.

No point of view to it. Bugs on food warrents a complaint.

Why? It's a free bonus of protein surely? You'd complain about getting given free stuff?

Digital item that has no affect on the game you pay for and you have no need to get it beyond self indulgence - No so much.

We agree here.

Unfortunately BIoware EA disagrees.

Not at all here.

If there is NO other way to get it price can only become a bigger issue, if money is no object at all, then you shouldn't be bothered either way if you can get it in other ways......... but you say that DOES bother you.

50/50 at best.

I think it's closer to 100% myself.

Was there ever an announcement of a Life day event or was that a player imagined, "We hope it will happen" thing?

 

Either way, the last thing we need is having to listen fear mongering and complaints about things that might or might not happen in the future? For all you know there going to charge you extra for that spider on your steak.

Neither of which is what I was saying, I was saying there is no event (unsurprisingly from my point of view, perhaps surprisingly from yours), and that if there was we may well have to pay extra for it anyway.

Why? It's a free bonus of protein surely? You'd complain about getting given free stuff?

Unlike you, I understand nothing is ever free. Even spiders.

The same can be said for anything in SWTOR though, and any bug affecting anything in SWTOR.

At least you understand the concept of marketing something people don't need but doing so they think they do. You of course sound like you fell hook line and sinker for it even if you don't like it. But, thumbs up for you on that.

Unfortunately BIoware EA disagrees.

Which is fine with me. It is there game but given this one aspect of the game and how little ot affects anything. the hyperbole around here is amazing.

If there is NO other way to get it price can only become a bigger issue, if money is no object at all, then you shouldn't be bothered either way if you can get it in other ways......... but you say that DOES bother you.

Pricing in no way others me. Not putting things in game play to be acquired is bothersome. Clearly you're smart enough to see the difference?

I think it's closer to 100% myself.

Nope, among the things I think your POV has lead you to the wrong conclusion on, this is another one.

Neither of which is what I was saying, I was saying there is no event (unsurprisingly from my point of view, perhaps surprisingly from yours), and that if there was we may well have to pay extra for it anyway.

Well guess what? There is no event so you don't have to pay. REJOICE!

Might be best to not speculate and assume though. That leads you to wrong conclusions and such other things.

They're not milking anything from you. Buy it or don't buy it there is no milking. I think the stuff is all garbage and would never consider spending anthing but my monthly allowance and find it laughable that people actually do.

 

I care about 1 thing, content and fixes for my monthly subscription fee, so far besides the 5 months that gave 0 content they're doing ok since F2P if they keep rolling content I'll be happy, and if that content is a result of dummies buying gambling boxes so be it.

And so it begins ...

we are headed to P2Win. We are also headed to pay for content ( even if you are a sub ). I am not talking about Expacs I am talking about things like incremental patchs in the CC store. Hey if people buy it, it must be ok right? We will also see the addition of drops in FPs and OPs that are lock boxes where you have to pay for keys to unlock the contents and the contents being "random" with no real loot table so not you have an rng for a drop box on top of an rng for the box becasue EA can make you pay for it.

"Hey they aren't gouging ... but, they're charging."

Unlike you, I understand nothing is ever free. Even spiders.

So you'd complain because you'd think they would charge you for the dead spider? I thought money was never the issue for you?

At least you understand the concept of marketing something people don't need but doing so they think they do. You of course sound like you fell hook line and sinker for it even if you don't like it. But, thumbs up for you on that.

Which is fine with me. It is there game but given this one aspect of the game and how little ot affects anything. the hyperbole around here is amazing.

Pricing in no way others me. Not putting things in game play to be acquired is bothersome. Clearly you're smart enough to see the difference?

Nope, among the things I think your POV has lead you to the wrong conclusion on, this is another one.

Well guess what? There is no event so you don't have to pay. REJOICE!

Would you be ok to pay for such an event? And if so how much would be reasonable?

Might be best to not speculate and assume though. That leads you to wrong conclusions and such other things.

ALL business is about making money, but many of them manage to at least make you think they value you as a customer, and don't just treat you like a credit card number.

Which is mainly a matter of personal opinion and reflection. There are plenty of businesses out there that very much treat you like a number and they still do all right. It's up to the individual to decide to patronize them or not. Just like the commercialization of holidays - if it wasn't popular or profitable it wouldn't be done. Since it is, then they are. We don't have to like it, but then again, that's Life and Life isn't fair. Anyone who said (or says) otherwise is an idiot.

BJ

And so it begins ...

 

we are headed to P2Win. We are also headed to pay for content ( even if you are a sub ). I am not talking about Expacs I am talking about things like incremental patchs in the CC store. Hey if people buy it, it must be ok right? We will also see the addition of drops in FPs and OPs that are lock boxes where you have to pay for keys to unlock the contents and the contents being "random" with no real loot table so not you have an rng for a drop box on top of an rng for the box becasue EA can make you pay for it.

 

"Hey they aren't gouging ... but, they're charging."

I wish I had your crystal ball. My magic 8 ball keeps saying, "Cannot predict now" [shakes again]

And so it begins ...

 

we are headed to P2Win. We are also headed to pay for content ( even if you are a sub ). I am not talking about Expacs I am talking about things like incremental patchs in the CC store. Hey if people buy it, it must be ok right? We will also see the addition of drops in FPs and OPs that are lock boxes where you have to pay for keys to unlock the contents and the contents being "random" with no real loot table so not you have an rng for a drop box on top of an rng for the box becasue EA can make you pay for it.

 

"Hey they aren't gouging ... but, they're charging."

In the end it comes down to what WILL people pay for and what not. If enough people refuse to pay for something then the company changes strategy or shuts down the game.

Like most people there are things I AM willing to pay for. Supporting the commercialization of holidays (here or in real life) I will will not do.

Then why does it bother you so much?

 

I win the bet btw:

It doesn't bother me. You were the one who wanted an answer and seems perturbed by the state of the Cartel Market. And others were/are disturbed by the lack of a new Life Day themed live event. I am not for either case. For me, it's business as usual for my game play - and it would be the same if they did have an event planned.

BJ

Title says it all really but I'll elaborate, please note this isnt a "BW SUX LOL" thread. I'm putting a lot of thought and effort in this post

With today's 1.6 patch I dont even know anymore if Ill stick around as a paying subscriber. Why? So many reasons!

First of all lets start with the patch itself, it came out very fast, about 3hours before they said it would be and thats a good thing right? Wrong. There's inherent bugs in it that should've been fixed and plain lies in the patchnotes. Items instantly binding to people from Cartel packs? Subscribers not being able to log in but being put in a queue (to which the CS doesnt even bother to reply), apparently low XP from Warzones and a few others Ive seen floating around. Come on BioWare, this was your moment to shine! 1.5 brought so many tasty goodies! A Cartel Market that was optional and more people coming in to play, it was going to be fun!

But then the greed kicked in didnt it? This brings me to part two.

You're getting greedy BioWare/EA (I dont know who is to blame here so I'll keep putting both) and I dont like it.

You're selling Life Day stuff exclusively on the Cartel Market, why? If the subscribers got something out of it, fine but we dont get anything except some fireworks (woohoo....nice 1 year anniversary), and before people think Im being "entitled", this isn't being entitled. The people who subscribe have one up on the F2P people and this is past the no limits on Ops and Warzones. I pay $15 a month for this game and I was planning on staying a subscriber simply because Id hope that I wasnt going to be excluded from special stuff like this, but now it appears I am being excluded unless I pay extra on top of my subscription and I cant afford that.

And then there's the new Grade 7 Space stuff. If this is any indication for your Super Secret Space Project you can cancel it, its money grabbing. You know damn well that a lot of people will be too lazy to earn all those comms/creds and whatnots. I hope that people realize that this is also something thats simply NOT done and express this by not buying the upgrades and not playing the new Space missions.

And then I just read that there's no events planned for either the anniversary OR Christmas? Im not a religious person and I dont really care about Christmas but even I recognise it as THE holiday of most of your customers.

Again this was a chance for you to shine BioWare! No Life Day event means that the Life Day stuff you put on the Cartel Market will have no significant value since lets be honest, it aint that pretty.

All of these things combined make me fear BioWare... it makes me fear for the new species, will they be Cartel Market only? Will subscribers have to pay extra for them? And what about Makeb? How big of an expansion will it be and will subscribers get any good deals on that? What about the good old CE vendor? Are you forgetting about that? Will you finally get all of your CS representatives to the same competence since some of them really suck at following their scripting or have no imagination to think outside of the box (Im available if you need me, Ive done it before)? Or will you give up on us, your loyal people, and only care about money? Are you going to play the money game rather than the game game.

You guys are BioWare for pete's sake! You guys made RPG's to what they are today! Baldurs Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Knight of the Old Republic, Dragon Age: Origins and even Mass Effect 1! Goddamnit, you're making me angry here! And sad... sad because we dont want to lose a company that contributed so much to us. Angry because you are letting yourself get played like idiots!

So I implore you developers, artists, writers, programmers and management of BioWare. Leave BioWare/EA behind if they are in the way between you and great games, if they force you onto this mediocrity of gaming. Dont let yourself become part of a milkmachine like Activision and EA Sports.

Leave or tell EA where to stick it and make some GOOD content for SWTOR (and other games) with thoughts to the FANS and not the money. I understand you guys have a certain ROI you need to make, but this isnt how to do it. This is thinking on short term.

Show us that you love us as much as we love you, because we have infinite love for you and your games.

Please, turn it in the other direction when it was good. Remember that we always love you and we know its not all your fault

To the people who are making these "business choices": I don't wanna talk to you no more, you empty headed animal food trough wiper! I fart in your general direction! Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!

In the end it comes down to what WILL people pay for and what not. If enough people refuse to pay for something then the company changes strategy or shuts down the game.

 

Like most people there are things I AM willing to pay for. Supporting the commercialization of holidays (here or in real life) I will will not do.

I appriciate your view. Today 11Dec2012 is the day that SWTOR became so much ash in my mouth. I said if it started to trend to P2win I was out. We are headed down that path with the P2win space mods.

"Hey EA isn't gouging ... but, their charging."

It doesn't bother me. You were the one who wanted an answer and seems perturbed by the state of the Cartel Market. And others were/are disturbed by the lack of a new Life Day themed live event. I am not for either case. For me, it's business as usual for my game play - and it would be the same if they did have an event planned.

 

BJ

Well you post an awful, awful lot on this subject for someome that absolutely doesn't care one way or another about any of it.

I wish I had your crystal ball. My magic 8 ball keeps saying, "Cannot predict now" [shakes again]

He's not using a magic 8-ball, unfortunately he's directly quoting what an EA exec said about 6 months ago now.

You really need to see the Star Wars Chrismas special. . . . . . . . . . .

I understand the context you are saying this in but... NO. Nobody should ever see the Star Wars Christmas Special. Not under any circumstances. Not for any reason whatsoever. No. Just no.