I agree. No matter how you fix this, people will find something to complain.

What I would have liked to see was some cut scene in the Baras fight that affirms Quinn's current loyalty to you. The Sith Inquisitor cut scene in Chapter 1 has scene where Khem took a hit for you. They could have done something similar. Like at some point Baras made a final attempt to strike you with lightening and Quinn runs in and take the blow instead. They could have the SW reacts very fast and so the strike was interrupted (and thus doesn't not kill Quinn), but enough to show that Quinn will die for you. That way they won't need to change the game too much. Just add a 5 sec cut scene and it will make a huge difference for a lot of people.

G. Quinn incapacitates the companion.

QUINN: Baras and I have been planning this for some time. You'll have to face this fight alone, my lord. go to DIALOGUE 4 above

Wait, he can incapacitate a companion, but doesn't think of doing it to the warrior? He really is an idiot.

Like at some point Baras made a final attempt to strike you with lightening and Quinn runs in and take the blow instead. They could have the SW reacts very fast and so the strike was interrupted (and thus doesn't not kill Quinn), but enough to show that Quinn will die for you. That way they won't need to change the game too much. Just add a 5 sec cut scene and it will make a huge difference for a lot of people.

Hell yeah! I always thought they needed a scene like Zeke got in Infamous 2.

Having a scene like this back on the station would be brilliant.

You leave Quinn for dead, and on your way out, Baras reveals he had a backup. Say, dropping you in a pit with Snipers in cover at the edge. They peg you with bolts until you're in, say, 30% health, then Quinn shows up out of nowhere, and either takes them out himself, or heals you and makes an exit for you.

A DS choice would be to say "This changes nothing, traitor". The neutral choice would be that he has to re-earn your trust, and the LS choice is to forgive him then(assuming that you didn't pick that in the first convesration. If you did, then he still saves you, but you get to say "I'm glad I gave you a second chance").

To me, Quinn's decision to side with Baras is completely inline with his personality and values. I don't think Baras needed to do mind control.

Oh, I agree; I never said otherwise. I just said Baras may have amplified any ill-will Quinn had towards the other companions during the betrayal, which is why he acts so openly hostile to them (usually, he'll just complain to the Warrior in private).

As for finishing the romance before the betrayal... I did that, and thought it flowed okay, oddly enough. Why, you ask? Because of the aforementioned post-romance letter, the one about Quinn preferring to die by the Warrior's side, rather than being stuck at a desk job. If read in hindsight, I interpret it as him wanting to die by the Warrior's hand, rather than betray them.

And for some who is usually so competent and has saved the Warrior a couple of times (Balmorra and Taris comes to mind), Quinn's assassination attempt really does seem half-hearted. (Droids? Really? I can CC those!) So yes, I am one of those who considers his betrayal a suicide attempt, of sorts. (And that might also explain why he's so nasty to the other companions accompanying the Warrior; if he's going to die anyways, might as well tell them how he really feels...)

But as always, Quinn underestimates the Warrior, and realizes he's going to live with the concequences... (Which is kind of ruined without the option to kill him, but that why I think the kill scene from the beta should be rewritten to a torture and/or demotion scene instead. )

One thing that had me thinking the whole time even before I played through the story line, mostly because I accidently spoiled it for myself is if he was really that serious about killing the SW, there were easier ways to do poisonings, shooting him or her in the head while they were sleeping... things like that.

I know, I know, it would make for bad story telling but it makes me think sometimes that maybe, just maybe Quinn just didn't have the heart (heh) to actually commit murder by droid.

The whole movie-mafia spin on the situation does make a lot of sense too though. And now I have silly mental images of Baras as Don Carlone or however you spell his name.

I've mentioned this before but what I want is something for those of us who missed the scene on Corellia with Quinn because we were too busy running around with our healer instead of another companion. As it stands on my first SW, Quinn is still in the doghouse with his wife, who didn't marry him until AFTER Baras was dead, atleast I think it was after I don't actually remember to be honest.

Though locking those last few companion conversations would be good considering that I remember blowing through all of one LI's stuff after I got him at the end of Hoth and before I even finished Voss. Granted, I had a lot of presents just sitting in my cargo bay just itching to be used.

@ Ephemera:

Thanks for putting that dialogue tree together. If I remember correctly the one option in the post fight "don't be too hard on yourself" went something along the lines of "It was a valient attempt. The droids really pushed me."

And for some who is usually so competent and has saved the Warrior a couple of times (Balmorra and Taris comes to mind), Quinn's assassination attempt really does seem half-hearted. (Droids? Really? I can CC those!) So yes, I am one of those who considers his betrayal a suicide attempt, of sorts. (And that might also explain why he's so nasty to the other companions accompanying the Warrior; if he's going to die anyways, might as well tell them how he really feels...)

This is the piece that I have a lot of hard time reconciling. Of all the ways, 2 droids? Seriously? And as ekimmak called out, he can incapacitate the companions with one button push, but can't do that with the SW? So odd.

I have a hard time considering it a suicide attempt. Mainly because he offered Jaesa and Broonmark to join him to serve Baras afterwards. Doesn't make sense if he was expecting to die. It seems to me that by this time he was indeed compromised. Everything he feared about his relationship with the SW has come true. Because of his feeling for the SW, when it comes to time to execute his mission (ala kill the SW) his judgement was clouded and he was not effective at his job.

The irony of the whole thing is, his job performance was only compromised when it's to harm the SW (he's not compromised in the least bit when it comes to battling others). Except at the end of the day, it never had to become an issue if he had just sided with the right team to begin with. To me, the SW story is very much a story of Quinn learning his true destiny and place in the world as well.

And as ekimmak called out, he can incapacitate the companions with one button push, but can't do that with the SW? So odd.

It struck me later after the post that the same happened earlier, on Tatooine, but looking at your post reminded me:

Back then, you have a droid, a slave, and an imperial officer. They aren't force users. You are. So, force tricks that knock them out won't do anything to you.

 

Malavai has no excuse, considering he can take out Jaesa.

Wait, he can incapacitate a companion, but doesn't think of doing it to the warrior? He really is an idiot.

Ummm...he implanted a chip in everybody else's heads while they were asleep, allowing a special frequency to knock them out so he could face you on what he would consider even terms?

Yeah, I've got nothing.

I edited the scene script to fill in some gaps. Most importantly, I located the dialogue for the Dialogue 7 neutral and LS answers that exactly one person on the entirety of Youtube even clicked.

I have a hard time considering it a suicide attempt. Mainly because he offered Jaesa and Broonmark to join him to serve Baras afterwards. Doesn't make sense if he was expecting to die. It seems to me that by this time he was indeed compromised. Everything he feared about his relationship with the SW has come true. Because of his feeling for the SW, when it comes to time to execute his mission (ala kill the SW) his judgement was clouded and he was not effective at his job.

Hmm, that's a good point. I had forgotten that Quinn offered Jaesa and Broonmark to join Baras, having only seen those versions of the betrayal recently. (I suppose you could say he was trying to make a convincing show of it, but that doesn't completely explain it away.)

Hmm, that's a good point. I had forgotten that Quinn offered Jaesa and Broonmark to join Baras, having only seen those versions of the betrayal recently. (I suppose you could say he was trying to make a convincing show of it, but that doesn't completely explain it away.)

I do love how the scene has a different feel depending on whether you brought Quinn or another companion with you. One thing that it does do is it makes it easier to keep the whole thing secret if that's what you choose if you go "solo". If you do go solo the whole "death by Sith" theory might hold up, maybe, but either way he's definitely compromised in some way in regards to dealing with his current predicament.

I just (literally) did this on my second SW. No Quinn romance this time and I took Pierce with me.

Quinn tells you he told Barras Pierce was physically capable but not suitable to join them. Extremely amusing reply from Pierce. That's my boy

Oddly one of my SW's early convo options seemed romance related "Don't I mean anything to you?" Must be a bug unless Bio assume all female SW's romance Quinn (mine hasn't actually spoken to him at all...ever... unless forced in a group cutscene).

I still think the whole thing jars badly and wish for a better ending option. Nothing makes a Sith weaker than underlings that you can't trust or properly punish for betrayal. Why can't I just send him back to Barras if I'm not allowed to kill him?

Oh well, here's hoping Bio tie it up in upcoming story additions (but I actually really doubt they'll do anything with it).

So.....

 

I understand this was a very traumatic experience for you, and I'm sorry. But.....

 

LOL!!!!! Sorry, the way you described it was very funny. I couldn't help it.

See, no matter how much I let myself get worked up over an exciting story...at the end of the day my imaginary husband sicced killer robots on me. If you don't find that hilarious, your appreciation for the absurd is tragically underdeveloped.

What I would have liked to see was some cut scene in the Baras fight that affirms Quinn's current loyalty to you. The Sith Inquisitor cut scene in Chapter 1 has scene where Khem took a hit for you. They could have done something similar. Like at some point Baras made a final attempt to strike you with lightening and Quinn runs in and take the blow instead. They could have the SW reacts very fast and so the strike was interrupted (and thus doesn't not kill Quinn), but enough to show that Quinn will die for you. That way they won't need to change the game too much. Just add a 5 sec cut scene and it will make a huge difference for a lot of people.

I like that! It really would add just that 'little bit more' tot he overall narrative of that arc. yes that would work perfectly!

@bright_ephemera: I found that nice music video you made, for your Quinn romance experience. I have to say, I liked it allot.

bright_ephemera OMG, you really do love that character On all seriousness, I am sorry for my posts here full of hatred.

I deleted my fem SW because of Quinn. Yet, story still bugs me, like a book with missing pages or a movie with messed up scenes. Have to do it right one day or will never find a real peace. The only alternatives I sow is

1. male SW (preferably pure blood with \punish emote)

2. leave fem SW without romance or make Quinn to admit he loves my SW and then go with Pierce (to give Quinn a moral reason too for betrayal). But Soteirian's idea sounds very reasonable. Might try this to get that stuff off my head.

So, Soteirian, this conversation has to be the last before the betrayal:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZNg36zxInk

right?

(Oh, and idea with the cut scene is brilliant! Please submit it as a suggestion!)

So, Soteirian, this conversation has to be the last before the betrayal:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZNg36zxInk

right?

That's right. In fact I think you want to get through that one before the betrayal for the story to work right (especially since SW actually talks about helping him taking out Boysc in one of the options). It's also makes more sense of Quinn's question in Technical Changes, where he asked if he should move forward as if there's nothing between you.

It is also important to leave Quinn on the ship to trigger the Corellia dialog. After the betryal I basically left Quinn on the ship and started using other companions. So I did most of Corellia w/o Quinn. I switched back to Quinn after I forgave him (during the Corellia dialog), which resulted in him him joining my SW for the final Draagh fight.

Try it and see if that works for you.

(Oh, and idea with the cut scene is brilliant! Please submit it as a suggestion!)

Where does one go submit suggestions? I checked the various forums and am actually not sure which is the right one to do so.

That's right. In fact I think you want to get through that one before the betrayal for the story to work right (especially since SW actually talks about helping him taking out Boysc in one of the options).

 

It is also important to leave Quinn on the ship to trigger the Corellia dialog. After the betryal I basically left Quinn on the ship and started using other companions. So I did most of Corellia w/o Quinn. I switched back to Quinn after I forgave him (during the Corellia dialog), which resulted in him him joining my SW for the final Draagh fight.

 

Try it and see if that works for you.

 

 

 

Where does one go submit suggestions? I checked the various forums and am actually not sure which is the right one to do so.

Suggestion Box

(Oh, and idea with the cut scene is brilliant! Please submit it as a suggestion!)

Done!

@TalkingDinosaur - thanks for the pointer to the suggestion box.

See, I saw it as Quinn having no real choice in his mind. I play a female Sith Warrior, light side, she's light side V thanks to Diplomacy, and she not only forgave him (no force choking), but she offered to let him BACK into her bedroom and continue the marriage I'd wager, AND not tell a single crew member. The only 3 people who knows what he did was me, Quinn and Vette.

At first, sure, he was all happy to spy on you and tell Baras everything you did. Then he fell in love with you and married you. Then suddenly Baras pulls this crap, telling Quinn 'so, my good man, remember when I sent you to her ship to spy on her? Yeah, I want you to kill her too. Don't care how you do it, just do it. Thanks.'

So here he is, torn. He LOVES you (you'd know this if you chose the options about 'I thought we meant something to each other' and you keep choosing the relationship options during this. He is truly regretful. He DOESN'T want to do this anymore. But with him owing his career and probably his earlier life to Baras, he feels he has no other choice. Why? Because did he SERIOUSLY think, that ALL that time he spent with you on missions, etc, that TWO silver strong droids would take YOU out? He's not stupid. He didn't miscalculate or overestimate his evil ingeniousness, thinking this would work. He sabotaged himself ON PURPOSE and actually thought in an emo style 'well, after this, she'll win and I'll be dead. It was a decent life, farewell'

This is why he's so damn surprised when you forgive hm.

Now, if you treated him like crap from the beginning, told everyone to ignore his orders, etc, then if I were him, I'd have happily betrayed you and played you for a patsy too. Whether we were married or not. But then again, I treat all my companions, even the ones who annoy the piss out of me, with respect.

That's right. In fact I think you want to get through that one before the betrayal for the story to work right (especially since SW actually talks about helping him taking out Boysc in one of the options). It's also makes more sense of Quinn's question in Technical Changes, where he asked if he should move forward as if there's nothing between you.

 

It is also important to leave Quinn on the ship to trigger the Corellia dialog. After the betryal I basically left Quinn on the ship and started using other companions. So I did most of Corellia w/o Quinn. I switched back to Quinn after I forgave him (during the Corellia dialog), which resulted in him him joining my SW for the final Draagh fight.

The thing with that particular bit of dialogue that I bolded is that it's part of the first set of choices, and one of those is a "flirt" option, that option is not. Most people tend to go for the flirt options more often then not, unless you're more adventurous, or just plain crazy like I was.

I'm just sad I didn't leave Quinn on the ship when we got to Corellia, I was just used to running around with him so I believe I've said this before but I hope they add something for those of us who didn't get that particular cut scene. Given the way I was playing my SW, she ended up being pretty neutral by the end with a minor jaunt into both dark 1 and light 1, Quinn's personality and priorities dovetailed nicely with her own so it made sense to have him out most of the time. I do like that most of the choices that you get as aren't obvious black and white, there is some subtlety, not a lot mind you but just a bit, to keep things interesting.

The thing with that particular bit of dialogue that I bolded is that it's part of the first set of choices, and one of those is a "flirt" option, that option is not. Most people tend to go for the flirt options more often then not, unless you're more adventurous, or just plain crazy like I was.

Yeah. In fact, not only this was a non-flirt option, it was the coldest of all three options. Even if you are not the lovey-dovey type you may still not take this path. Although it yields, IMO, the most satisfying result.

I've found some of these less than romantic options actually lead to some of the most interesting dialogs. For example, here's a

I'm just sad I didn't leave Quinn on the ship when we got to Corellia, I was just used to running around with him so I believe I've said this before but I hope they add something for those of us who didn't get that particular cut scene. Given the way I was playing my SW, she ended up being pretty neutral by the end with a minor jaunt into both dark 1 and light 1, Quinn's personality and priorities dovetailed nicely with her own so it made sense to have him out most of the time. I do like that most of the choices that you get as aren't obvious black and white, there is some subtlety, not a lot mind you but just a bit, to keep things interesting.

I'm so sorry.

Yeah, given most players who likes Quinn will most likely get through the legacy dialogs before the betrayal, to have the only dialog that remotely address the 'incident' to be so easily missed is kinda cruel. I do hope they do something about it in Chapter 4.

Personally I really like the Quinn story. Despite heartache and frustration of the lack of definitive closure, I thought the character development was excellent. The story is even richer when you are in romance with him. I haven't played the Republic side so I don't know about them. But on the Imperial side I feel Quinn/SW is the only real love story. Their relationship actually developed over the course of time. There was a clear initial attraction (SW was obvious, but I think Quinn was also attracted to the SW very early on. That's why he was so easily thrown off balance when she came on to him.), then the cat-n-mouse chase games, then struggle to reconcile love and devotion, then the happy moment, then the heartbreak, and then the final embrace of their rightful place in each other's life. It's a pretty complete love story (minus the poor handling of the incident and the transition to the final resolution).

Compare to Quinn/SW, all other love story seems quite shallow. The PC flirts, the companion responds, the deal is sealed. Pretty boring.

That's right. In fact I think you want to get through that one before the betrayal for the story to work right (especially since SW actually talks about helping him taking out Boysc in one of the options). It's also makes more sense of Quinn's question in Technical Changes, where he asked if he should move forward as if there's nothing between you.

 

It is also important to leave Quinn on the ship to trigger the Corellia dialog. After the betryal I basically left Quinn on the ship and started using other companions. So I did most of Corellia w/o Quinn. I switched back to Quinn after I forgave him (during the Corellia dialog), which resulted in him him joining my SW for the final Draagh fight.

Okay, got too curious here.

As for the Corellia dialogue, I'm dying here. I can't find it on Youtube. Can somebody get me a link? I...I actually...um, you know the naked-holocall bug, and after seeing that once I was like "I would rather be angry with you here at my side than get that forcible in-character reminder, thanks, and besides, Pierce is pretty hot," so Quinn stayed out with me for the rest of Corellia.

Yeah, given most players who likes Quinn will most likely get through the legacy dialogs before the betrayal, to have the only dialog that remotely address the 'incident' to be so easily missed is kinda cruel. I do hope they do something about it in Chapter 4.

 

Personally I really like the Quinn story. Despite heartache and frustration of the lack of definitive closure, I thought the character development was excellent. The story is even richer when you are in romance with him. I haven't played the Republic side so I don't know about them. But on the Imperial side I feel Quinn/SW is the only real love story. Their relationship actually developed over the course of time. There was a clear initial attraction (SW was obvious, but I think Quinn was also attracted to the SW very early on. That's why he was so easily thrown off balance when she came on to him.), then the cat-n-mouse chase games, then struggle to reconcile love and devotion, then the happy moment, then the heartbreak, and then the final embrace of their rightful place in each other's life. It's a pretty complete love story (minus the poor handling of the incident and the transition to the final resolution).

 

Compare to Quinn/SW, all other love story seems quite shallow. The PC flirts, the companion responds, the deal is sealed. Pretty boring.

...I have to stop reading these. You're right, of course. But I need to stick my fingers in my ears and go "la la la I hate him" or else when chapter 4 gets released, Quinn will open his mouth and words will come out and I will immediately forget that I ever had a problem with him. Dammit.

Ahahaha! Glad you two enjoyed those referenced vids.

At some point I'll get a vid of the preceding conversation that gives you first fade to black, I did the conversation a half dozen times before I finally settled on answers but I didn't actually record that one. Someday... someday...

PS: I post vids where I'm mean to my companions, which makes me feel bad but since no one else was, I figured I'd fill that niche for those that wanted to see. Granted, I had a finger hovered over the ESC key the whole time panicking something bad would happen.

Quinn's assassination attempt really does seem half-hearted. (Droids? Really? I can CC those!) So yes, I am one of those who considers his betrayal a suicide attempt, of sorts.

Just got reminded of this when my second Warrior (first one I made...couldn't be gay...I rerolled the minute I stepped off Balmorra) hit the level to train Slice Droid. I actually laughed out loud when I saw the ability come up. Quinn...I'm starting to believe the suicide/false attempt theory, not because I want to justify your murder attempt, but because that level of dumb truly boggles the mind. You've seen me CC, man!

(DIALOGUE 2)

• 1 non-romance. (How could you?) This is the worst betrayal possible.
  QUINN: I act today with a heavy heart. Baras has always been the anchor of my career and, in my opinion, of the Empire. --go to D--
  
• 1a romance. (Our romance dies in flames.) And here I thought you loved me. --go to D--
  
• 2 non-romance. (Don't be rash.) Think this through, Quinn, before it goes too far.
  QUINN: You know me. I never act without consideration. Baras saved my career, and he'll save the Empire. --go to D--
  
• 2a romance, may trigger on any female Warrior. (Don't I mean anything to you?) I thought our relationship was real. I thought we cared about each other. --go to D--
  
• 3 non-romance. (Then you deserve death.) If you are allied with that fool, you will receive no mercy from me.
  QUINN: I arrived at this moment after much deliberation. Baras has always been the anchor of my career and, in my opinion, of the Empire. --go to D--
  
• 3a romance. (I've fought for you!) After all we've been through together? I even helped you take out Moff Broysc.
  QUINN: You've helped me immensely. I act today with a heavy heart. But without Baras, I'd have no career. --go to D--
  

Anybody else feel like it's oddly incomplete that any romantic appeal to his emotions (1a, 2a) gets zero response and skips to the canned scene-progression line? Like, less response than you stating the obvious "betrayal is bad." Me, I tried appealing to reason with option 3a, but if I had chosen one of the other two, I would've wanted...something. Then again, I can see him shutting down if you slam him with feelings right then. In one of the Technical Changes conversations linked above you see that you can irritate him with -1s in personal conversations, but if you laugh in his face after his declaration of love he has zero affection response. Total emotional shutdown until he can process what's going on. Hence, in the betrayal scene, no emotional response where I would've wanted one.

Ahahaha! Glad you two enjoyed those referenced vids.

Are you handofpalpatine on Youtube, then? I'll keep that in mind I love the material there.