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Quest: The Plitics of Dissent (spoiler?)


diamondchick

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Bioware sure put thought into this.

 

This game and the stories that have been created have been phenomenal.

 

However, given the sheer quantity of minor quests developed, it is entirely possible that a few quests were not fully comprehended in their impact/development.

 

I think there should be one more level of this minor quest, and that should be to investigate the claims of subterfuge, and then go from there. If the senator really is making deals with the devil, then it should be LS to give the real documents. If he's not really being subversive, then LS to give fake documents.

 

As it stands now, the quest options and rewards given are backwards or not based on thorough enough information.

Edited by Paralassa
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  • 2 weeks later...

This is one of the very few Dark Side choices my Consular made. (Other one being to not turn in the Lovers on Tython, but also not accept their bribe). I ESC'd out of it a couple of times trying to understand it. Eventually, I decided that the Jedi oath to protect the Republic was similar to the US military oath to defend the Constitution from enemies both foreign and domestic, and chose the Dark side option. I'm not very happy about that choice, but it's one of those moral hooks that Bioware wants us twisting on, to make us think through the consequences of our actions. (In pretty much everything since then though, I've followed the path of forgiving enemies, allowing them a second chance, and that has all been Light side).

 

Oh, and while the Republic and the Senate itself may be democratic, the Senators themselves are not necessarily elected -- they may well be appointed by a King or similar, since a lot of Republic worlds are actually Monarchies, Alderaan itself and Sarkhai being two examples.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Is there ANY proof that this is a coupe instead of just an "stating a opinion" thing. Because the Senators Assistance is absolutly right that he has the right to bring this idea up.

The parcel supposedly contains something that would "bring the senator's plan to public". If he is truly simply planning to speak his mind while "upholding what the Republic stands for", why hide it? What kind of democracy lies in secrecy?

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Without referring to any previous post, please ask yourselves this:

 

Would a (evil)character following immoral standards(Dark side) choose to reveal a politican with plans of, intentionally or not, bringing chaos to their system? -Only because it goes against their form of government(Democracy)? Would doing something like that, make sense in real life for a criminal/otherwise mean person?

 

Would a character following good moral standards(Light side) choose to overlook a politican having his evil plan fulfilled, just because ruling is what politicans are for?

Do they think something like: "Well, he was elected by the people after all... It's the right thing to do! :rolleyes:

Politicans chosen by the people won't do bad things! Never happens, nope. :)"

 

The Senator wants to form an alliance with the sith(for who knows what reason), who are unquestionably malicious. How can it strengthen your connection to the Dark side to stop him? That choice would even hinder the Sith from getting influence within the Republic!

 

 

Please make my subtly biassed questions invalid!

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The parcel supposedly contains something that would "bring the senator's plan to public". If he is truly simply planning to speak his mind while "upholding what the Republic stands for", why hide it? What kind of democracy lies in secrecy?

 

Yeah this is what I didn't get about this quest - it seemed to be a bit schizophrenic!

Initially we are told we are "stealing" information about a Senator's secret plan to ditch the Jedi and ally with the Empire, in order to expose this to the public (and presumably they can then use this information to help decide their next vote). So ok, I can see that stealing the info might be considered wrong in isolation.

 

But then after taking the information, we're told that Senator has a right to his opinion, and us interfering undermines the system. But we're not necesarrily smearing the Senator, unfairly hindering him in the elections; all we are doing is exposing his opinions so that people can best decide how to vote in the next elections.

 

Being told I'm undermining the political system when all I'm doing is exposing a hidden agenda annoys me every time I do this quest.

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The parcel supposedly contains something that would "bring the senator's plan to public". If he is truly simply planning to speak his mind while "upholding what the Republic stands for", why hide it? What kind of democracy lies in secrecy?

 

Getting darkside points for trying to reveal some evil senator's plans to betray the republic is mindboggling.

 

Personaly I think this quest was put in just to show how confusing the political situation is there, but it failed. Its painfuly obvious that the senator is the "bad guy". The person who stops you doesn't even argue on that point. Merely that I am interfering with the political process and some gibberish about not letting him have his own view or soemthing. When all my character was doing is letting everyone else know what his hidden view/plan/whatever was.

 

If the negative points were because of the method of doing it, then you should get just as many darkside points for lying to and decieving the person you are supose to be working for. A MUCH better way to express the confusion and corruption is if the documents had turned out holding some other sort of sensitive information, and you wound up destroying a senators career that was loyal to the republic.

 

In the long run. I don't think that one light/dark choice will make that much difference though.

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  • 3 months later...

well, either you can stop him from helping the empire to take over and cause no free speech whatsoever, and get light side points, or you can hold up his personal free speech and get dark side points.

 

i also love how when you take the dark side choice of taking the plans, the senator page that was being all nice and kindly asking you not too becomes suddenly like evil, and determined to make his evil plans come true.

Edited by Jedikillar
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Does anyone seriously think the senator was ever going to get anywhere? By taking the parcel, you've violated the tenets the Republic supposedly stands for, putting your own beliefs above the democratic process. If you don't take the parcel, the senator is going to get shot down soon after proposing any governmental changes, and he'll probably lose the support of his constituents.

 

This isn't a mixed up choice. It's a matter of your character believing him/herself above the Republic.

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Does anyone seriously think the senator was ever going to get anywhere? By taking the parcel, you've violated the tenets the Republic supposedly stands for, putting your own beliefs above the democratic process. If you don't take the parcel, the senator is going to get shot down soon after proposing any governmental changes, and he'll probably lose the support of his constituents.

 

This isn't a mixed up choice. It's a matter of your character believing him/herself above the Republic.

 

Yup some of these people would make great sith.

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*facepalm* The senator is not betraying the republic in ANY way shape or form. He is attempting to improve Diplomatic relations with a foreign power with which the Republic is currently at peace, and cut ties to an organization he sees as corrupt and meddlesome (Corrupt, debatable. Meddlesome... Definitely. I'd like to think the Jedi do more good than harm with their meddling, though). Now, we know "Sith are bad and Jedi are good," but he's certainly entitled to his own opinion. This is essentially you making the decision whether or not to commit the Watergate burglary.

 

Is the senator telling his constituents the full truth about his plans? I dunno. I highly suspect that at the very least, the senator is a public supporter of improved relations with the Sith, and a vocal critic of the Jedi*. The quest doesn't say (Oh, for access to proper dialogue trees). But if we started sacking politicians for not telling their constituents about their full plan... I don't think we'd have any politicians left.

 

 

*Which are not that uncommon opinions in the Republic at the moment, really.

Edited by KorinHyvek
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  • 7 months later...

I love this game and I love Star Wars but I cannot stop feeling there is something inherently wrong with the morality system presented by the lore, and this quest just proves it. It just goes against common sense.

 

Supposedly the emotions always get you to the dark side even good ones like love, at least if you are a force user, right?. If you are strong in the force through emotions, you are strong in the dark side. But that's just a ludicrous simplification because according to the story it will make you necessarily evil. And the game allows you to be a "good" sith strong in the light side, but one that keeps doing emotionally things everywhere.

 

Annnnnd the game let's you go around force persuading as a Jedi with no bad consequences at all. I mean that's just creepy you are twisting peoples minds and they know nothing about it. But if you are a sith and shock someone or force choke another, immediatly you get "dark side points!" because physical violence is really bad but telepathic meddling not so much apparently.

 

And then again is interesting how through some empire quest chains you are explained that the jedi fear emotions and the sith just fear everything... so actually the dual nature of the light/dark dichotomy is just a great illusion ruled by fear and there is some hidden "middle path" somewhere, which is better.

 

In the end when you break the suspension of disbelief with contradictory quest like these, you realize that the canon has huge huge plotholes, like everywhere! that yes, probably will be fixed sometime (retcon much?), but it doesn't mean they weren't there for starters.

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The light side choice here is to support the free democracy of the republic, not undermine it by doing something that is obviously illegal and underhanded. As far as jedi are concerned, the ends don't justify the means.

 

This is a good example of why the jedi story is far more interesting than people give it credit for being. While the warrior story may have a more visceral sense of ever-present physical danger, the knight story has a more subtle danger that is also ever-present and grows as the story progresses. Time and again, you are presented with choices in which the dark side choice seems as viable or even more than the lightside choice when one's goal is taken into account.

 

If one is truly playing the story and not just making lightside/darkside choices by rote, it is VERY difficult to be untouched by the darkside--which is as it should be. The darkside is tempting and no one ever said it's easy to be a jedi. It's entirely possible to end up very 'grey,' indeed, and still believe that one has done the right thing all along, which is also as it should be. In my opinion, the jedi story and choices are among the best in the game and lend themselves to both replaying the class and RP very well. My level 50 knight ended up being far more of a Je'daii than a jedi.

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  • 5 months later...
While I agree the light side choice is correctly set at letting the senator speak his ideas out (for reasons stated already by others above), the quest is still poorly coded. Because when I do this, I still take the rewards from my "employers" and even fool them by false documents. That can be hardly "light" and "honorable" action. There should be a chance to tell them the truth, that I changed the mind and decided not to help them. With a plea to see the reason behind it and understand it and drop the issue. Edited by Agrana
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  • 1 month later...
  • 2 years later...
Exposing his true motives and plans to essentially destroy the Republic works against the system? I don't make that connection. I don't know all of the "laws" in the Republic or their interpretation. What the senator is doing though is actively working toward what would undermine the Republic's safety/security or even destroy it since the Sith have NO other intentions other than conquering the Republic. That could be interpreted as "sedition" and in the United States and many western countries, it's illegal. It is NOT protected as "free speech."

 

Doing something under the guise of free trade or free speech does not mean it is all nice and legal.

 

It's a legal principle called "Fruit of the Poisoned Tree".

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