Thank you Eric.

I need to ask - rather than just nerfing anything that can result in quicker CXP gains, have you thought about possibly increasing the points given to those that take longer? You're never going to keep up with the players and you'll always be one step behind if you're always looking to reduce the amount of CXP gained vs. increasing it in the areas that take longer. Incentive works.

I am just wondering why the boss kills alone im SM is Higher than in Veteran Mode or in Nightmare. For Example :

Dread Fortress storymode groupfinder Boss 1 when it falls it gives around 2k cxp without ther cxp pack. In Hardmode ( Vet Mode ) it just gives around 1500 cxp. In Nim its around 1200 afaik.

Absolutely, good question. We certainly will lean into buffing over nerfing, where possible. In the case of Fractured and KotFE Chapter 1 and 2 though they are not only outperforming other Uprisings and Chapters, but also other content as well. It is still our intention that large group and difficult content (such as Operations and Warzones) are the best source of CXP.

 

If someone can do something by themselves (or in small groups), with minimal challenge, and receive more rewards than something like an Operation, you should expect it is gonna get adjusted.

 

Again, on the inverse, if you discover something that is not rewarding for its time spent, let us know! If "no one is running X Uprising" cause it is not worth the time, we will almost certainly buff it to bring it in line and feel rewarding.

 

-eric

Understood, and good to hear! Thank you for the reply Eric.

Absolutely, good question. We certainly will lean into buffing over nerfing, where possible. In the case of Fractured and KotFE Chapter 1 and 2 though they are not only outperforming other Uprisings and Chapters, but also other content as well. It is still our intention that large group and difficult content (such as Operations and Warzones) are the best source of CXP.

 

If someone can do something by themselves (or in small groups), with minimal challenge, and receive more rewards than something like an Operation, you should expect it is gonna get adjusted.

 

Again, on the inverse, if you discover something that is not rewarding for its time spent, let us know! If "no one is running X Uprising" cause it is not worth the time, we will almost certainly buff it to bring it in line and feel rewarding.

 

-eric

The bonus CXP event has made GC tolerable. Knowing you're not only going to be cutting the CXP back to pre-event levels in April, but actually cutting them LOWER than that for several activities, seems disingenuous--especially when you're finally working to fix the horrendous drop crates on Command Crates. TUX's suggestion would be a lot better... increasing the gains of activities that are harder/longer than certain Uprisings or story chapters to make them worth doing in the first place.

Also, again, I do not believe you guys when you say these sorts of things were 'accidentally' left out of patch notes any longer. You have a long history of leaving out nerfs and other negative changes and not bothering to correct the issue until players raise a huge stink about it. It's hard to trust you now that this was really and truly unintentional.

Hey folks,

 

I talked with the team to get the scope of what Mission rewards are changing with 5.2. As some of you guessed in the thread, the following Missions are also having their CXP values reduced:

• KOTFE - Chapter 1
  
• KOTFE - Chapter 2
  

Those two along with Fractured are the only Mission rewards that are seeing major changes in 5.2. However, there are other Missions which are receiving minor tweaks as well. Just to set an expectation, beyond 5.2 we will continue to make Mission reward adjustments based on time spent vs reward. Our goal is quite simple, if you play a type of content, you should receive fairly consistent rewards across that content, difficulty, based on time spent.

 

Example: If you want to play story mode Uprisings, we want all Uprisings to give you relatively the same reward for the time you spend playing them. If an Uprising takes 5 minutes, it should give around 1/5th the reward of one that takes 25 minutes. Obviously that won't be exact, but you get the idea.

 

If I learn of any other CXP changes happening in 5.2 (or in the future) I will pass them on. Thanks everyone.

 

-eric

Any thoughts on altering rewards for stealth runs that bypass many of the encounters vs non-stealth runs that are forced in some chases to slog it out? I mean if it takes 25 minutes to slog it out, taking say 15 to stealth it by this logic should only grant 60% of the cxp right?

And there are chapters that are espically when running them on master level much longer than others. I think its chapter 10 that also includes multiple double gold fights that simply is a clear level of difficulty higher than many other chapters that I should be worth a bunch more.

Again, on the inverse, if you discover something that is not rewarding for its time spent, let us know! If "no one is running X Uprising" cause it is not worth the time, we will almost certainly buff it to bring it in line and feel rewarding.

 

-eric

So, for the light vs dark world bosses, between the time to organize and the time searching the galaxy, CXP rewards and, if opposite alignment, token rewards are pretty underwhelming. Any chance they could get a balance pass to incentivize them better? I totally agree with Tux though. I mean let's be honest here Eric, we know cxp gains are going to be nerfed relative to the current events' 350% boost. Chapter 3 and chapter 8 are pretty long between all the trash. Makes more sense to buff those than simply nerf Chapter 1

Absolutely, good question. We certainly will lean into buffing over nerfing, where possible. In the case of Fractured and KotFE Chapter 1 and 2 though they are not only outperforming other Uprisings and Chapters, but also other content as well. It is still our intention that large group and difficult content (such as Operations and Warzones) are the best source of CXP.

 

If someone can do something by themselves (or in small groups), with minimal challenge, and receive more rewards than something like an Operation, you should expect it is gonna get adjusted.

 

Again, on the inverse, if you discover something that is not rewarding for its time spent, let us know! If "no one is running X Uprising" cause it is not worth the time, we will almost certainly buff it to bring it in line and feel rewarding.

 

-eric

So, what about late night warzone queue pops? Those certainly aren't rewarding for the time spent in the queue late night.

Sometimes the game will try to pop a full 16m warzone when there are only 11 or 12 people on, total, in the queue. So it ends up 3v8, or 4v8, and ends after 30 seconds. And because of a recent patch, everyone who waited 20, 30 minutes or more for that pop gets nothing except for some valor (useless) and a few credits.

Worse, that change incentivizes the few people who are there to leave, guaranteeing warzone shutdown, because they will get nothing for staying and at least rushing to get as many medals as they can 30s after the gates open. That makes the odds of the warzone backfilling enough to stay alive very long indeed.

1) Shouldn't the game have popped an arena instead? (Much as I hate arenas, they at least last long enough to pay out CXP during extremely low population times that can't support full 8v8s).

2) Shouldn't a short warzone at least pay out about a tenth of a normal warzone, so those who stay in the hopes that someone will come in and keep the match alive at least get something for their time loading into the queue?

Nothing is more frustrating late night/early morning than waiting around half an hour for a queue pop, only to get nothing from it, through no fault of your own.

KOTFE chapters shouldn't be nerfed. Yes, they're quick, but they are also challenging on master mode. Not as challenging as others, but challenging enough. Unless you play a tank (which takes longer) you have to concentrate throughout the fights, especially if you're 230 geared.

There are other chapters that are much much easier, that just have way more conversation and running around in them. Why on earth should they be more rewarding in terms of CXP? Just because they take longer?

Absolutely, good question. We certainly will lean into buffing over nerfing, where possible. In the case of Fractured and KotFE Chapter 1 and 2 though they are not only outperforming other Uprisings and Chapters, but also other content as well. It is still our intention that large group and difficult content (such as Operations and Warzones) are the best source of CXP.

 

-eric

You keep talking about large group content, does this mean that 5.2 will see server mergers to allow people to play the large group content.

I spent an hour queuing for a story uprising, every time a group does form its 4 dps, often one will quit out or someone will let the timer run down. Then finally getting 4 dps that are stupid enough to try it (after all it might be trial and error) we get to the beach invasion and it bugs out as after the first drop ship no more come and we end up having to exit out.

If you are going to make it so the ideal way of getting GC is through large group content, what are you doing to make this viable, given you have spent the last few months driving subscribers away and focusing on the cartel market.

So, what about late night warzone queue pops? Those certainly aren't rewarding for the time spent in the queue late night..

TIme spent in-queue is not a terribly important factor, because you can be out and about and doing stuff while queued for everything but Ops. (rant about GF Ops removed for repetition).

Goes back to my question about : If you're only here for one type of activity, why are you still here? Particularly for PvP, which is pretty bad, absolutely speaking.

Just to clear up any confusion, once the CXP event has ended we will be buffing the standard CXP rate. They won't be returning to rates that you experienced before the event, they will be higher. Exactly how high is still TBD and I should have that information in the coming weeks.

 

-eric

That is indeed good to know, though I honestly think the CXP bonus 'event' should stay permanently. GC is tolerable now, a nuisance rather than a destructive force that makes me not even want to bother playing the game because I find grinding the same content over and over for little reward extremely boring and frustrating. Dropping the levels of CXP gains back down again, even if they're a bit higher than before, will make me loathe playing again and go back to just RP and selling stuff on the GTN.

I really do wish you would address the trust issues people now have as a result of nerfs and other negative changes being repeatedly left out of patch notes. You're asking us to have faith in you, and to 'hang on tight' for news, but it's hard to do that when we keep getting surprise unannounced downgrades on rewards.

So you are demanding proof it can be done in one sentence than acknowledging it is so in the next. Sorry clearly it would be a waste of time to prove what you already know to be, what we all know to be.

 

I proved my case with a single link. If your argument had merit, you could do the same.

There is almost no difference in time in speedruns of chapter 2 with a stealther vs non stealther. You've been proven to be wrong about it. I'm moving on. You've been trying to change your wording, and your subject matter. You're getting more and more vague. You've literally said nothing of substance in the last few posts.

Your looking at this only from a grinding point of veiw. And there is validity in that but it also ignores the ease of learning and doing it the first couple times while learning the map, or even just doing it as part of more normal play styles.

 

So you want to regulate how people first play a chapter? You want to force them to play a certain way, which denies them their class features and abilities? People should enjoy the chapters the way they want to. Who should care if a steather finishes a chapter for the first time faster than a non stealther?

When talking about advantages or disadvantages with gaining CXP, one chapter, done one or two times is completely inconsequential. How people grind, and what advantages or disadvantages they have in getting CXP, that's the argument worth having. That's where balancing should take place, if balancing is needed. But right now, balance is sorely needed in so many other areas.

Now Eric has posted that chapter 1 and 2 is being nerfed. That's needed, quite frankly. But the new best way to grind will be found for 5.2. When that happens, look for proof before you make assumptions on which classes and specs have "Big Edges" as you call them.

Just to clear up any confusion, once the CXP event has ended we will be buffing the standard CXP rate. They won't be returning to rates that you experienced before the event, they will be higher. Exactly how high is still TBD and I should have that information in the coming weeks.

 

-eric

The CXP rate now is where it should stay. Anything lower will be horrible (especially for the higher levels that can't use the 100% boost).

I didn't miss it. Stealth made a difference as one would think it does.

The link that I posted, which you quoted, was an arsenal merc doing chapter 2 in 6 minutes and 2 seconds. No stealth was used.

If you're referring to the mara link I posted, the "stealth" the mara used shaved maybe 5 seconds off of the first use (avoidable mobs to begin with) and allowed a second group of 3 standard enemies to be bypassed. It took the mara 9 seconds to kill the first group of 3 standard enemies. (31 second mark of the video to 39 second mark). The difference, that you seemed so concerned about, it literally, and absolutely no more than 14 seconds.

14 seconds out of a 6 minute, 9 second run. That's what you are griping about. Do you get how pointless complaining about that is?

Maybe I'm wrong. Feel free to post a link of a stealther getting though master difficulty on chapter 2, that has any sort of notable advantage vs the merc who did it in 6 minutes 2 seconds, or the mara who did it in 6 minutes 9 seconds.

The hardware your computer uses to load in and out of chapter 2 literally plays a bigger role in how fast you complete chapter 2 than your character being able to stealth or not. You might as well ask Bioware to nerf CXP gains for people using solid state hard drives. Your argument would have slightly more merit.

Exactly how high is still TBD

Despite the RNG, it's actually kinda fun at this rate.

I can't say I love it, but I am also not dissatisfied by it either.

If it were to become more of a grind like it was at the old rates, on the other hand, I would probably give up on it altogether.

If the contents of each crate are notably better, the CXP rate could be lower.

That's one heck of an IF though.

SNIP....

 

14 seconds out of a 6 minute, 9 second run. That's what you are griping about. Do you get how pointless complaining about that is?

And in that video they are running empire side. Which is easier for a non-stealth to run by reducing the packs you have to interact with. That doesn't happen in Rep side combined that its also a BH (or commando) which are currently more than a bit over the top.

Again, the argument is time spent vs reward. Basing it on mob kilss ensure everyone falls in nearly the same area vs what you showed to vastly different not just Rep vs Emp running chapters but class vs class. It's too much difference across the board of characters if were going to nerf things based off what takes time.

There is no way you cannot see the difference unless you spent too much time in a hole recently.

Maybe I'm wrong. .

When it comes to designing a game that rewards you for risk or time spent for a reward then yes. You are wrong.

You will not run the Rep side and get the same experience without stealth. Most already know BH and Merc are a bit OP so using them as any metric is a bit off. We know stealthers can in general run all of them faster with little risk and a huge cut of time. Throwing in one non-stleather that is overturned right now just proves my point about risk vs reward.

Adjusting it so that all classes are a bit more even on the risk vs reward part is more than needed if bw design is indeed risk vs reward.

TIme spent in-queue is not a terribly important factor, because you can be out and about and doing stuff while queued for everything but Ops. (rant about GF Ops removed for repetition).

 

Goes back to my question about : If you're only here for one type of activity, why are you still here? Particularly for PvP, which is pretty bad, absolutely speaking.

Nice selective quoting. You chose to ignore the part where I suggested that a short/aborted zone should only pay out 1/10th the rewards of a full length one.

When you add the timer waiting for the doors to drop and loading screens, that comes out to about 2 minutes. Receiving 1/10th the payout for 1/10th the length is reasonably in line. Even if you are only counting the 30 seconds, 1/10th the payout of a 5-minute (300-second) 6-1 huttball match isn't completely out of the ballpark. None of that is counting the time spent waiting in queue waiting for the pop.

The most important thing for late night PVP is to remove the actual incentive for people to leave shorthanded warzones, thus guaranteeing that it ends prematurely. If people aren't going to get any reward for staying in a match that needs more players, they don't stay.

The second most important thing is for the queue system to not pop 8v8s when there very clearly are not enough people queued to support anything larger than arenas. (And again, I say that as someone who vastly prefers 8v8s to arenas.)

And in that video they are running empire side. Which is easier for a non-stealth to run by reducing the packs you have to interact with. That doesn't happen in Rep side combined that its also a BH (or commando) which are currently more than a bit over the top.

 

Again, the argument is time spent vs reward. Basing it on mob kilss ensure everyone falls in nearly the same area vs what you showed to vastly different not just Rep vs Emp running chapters but class vs class. It's too much difference across the board of characters if were going to nerf things based off what takes time.

 

There is no way you cannot see the difference unless you spent too much time in a hole recently.

 

 

Adjusting it so that all classes are a bit more even on the risk vs reward part is more than needed if bw design is indeed risk vs reward.

Agreed and the thing is if they base on it mobs killed they can more easily balance all of the chapters based on mobs needed to defeat to complete them. If chapter 12 has 27 mobs and chapter 10 has 54 they know that the basic time spent assuming no long paths that need to be traversed(or any other thing that might take time) and such should be about double, so the reward should be about double.

And here is another nice thing, they can add puzzles with an expected time to solve and based on that time reward cxp for doing so. They can adjust cap rewards for whatever they add that takes time to do, so they can add more then just pure combat if they are looking to make something interesting to do they can and know what value it should have.

It also allows stealthers to decide they can speed run or go for max cxp, their power still works but they decide how to use it, either for speed or as an advantage in combat.

Nice selective quoting. You chose to ignore the part where I suggested that a short/aborted zone should only pay out 1/10th the rewards of a full length one.

Because it wasn't relevant to the point I was making, which was specific to "no compensation for queue length times." Except for Ops (and, I suppose, Master FPs; I don't queue for those, but I don't see a lot of chatter in Fleet Chat about forming up groups for them either), you don't really need to watch the jawa jokes go by in fleet chat while enqueued for anything. You can go out and do several other CXP-gainful activities while waiting for a queue pop (Heroics, daily zones, chat up the guy in the basement of the bar on Rishi).

I don't have any thoughts about aborted WZs, and my only thought on ones shortened by blowout is "to the victors go the spoils" - you win a WZ, you get the reward.

Because it wasn't relevant to the point I was making, which was specific to "no compensation for queue length times." Except for Ops (and, I suppose, Master FPs; I don't queue for those, but I don't see a lot of chatter in Fleet Chat about forming up groups for them either), you don't really need to watch the jawa jokes go by in fleet chat while enqueued for anything. You can go out and do several other CXP-gainful activities while waiting for a queue pop (Heroics, daily zones, chat up the guy in the basement of the bar on Rishi).

 

I don't have any thoughts about aborted WZs, and my only thought on ones shortened by blowout is "to the victors go the spoils" - you win a WZ, you get the reward.

To be clear, I don't expect queue length times themselves to be compensated. I do, however, believe that the nerf to short/aborted warzone rewards should be re-evaluated, because 1) the all-or-nothing nature of the nerf encourages players to quit warzones that need more, not fewer, players, because they do not expect any reward at all, and 2) the existence of payout does encourage players to stay in matches that very clearly need them.

I can understand that Bioware felt that paying 1500-2500 CXP for an aborted match needed to be nerfed but on the other hand it was a great way to get people to stay in matches that would have aborted had they left. Now, if there are 4 people on a team against 8, by the time the doors open it's a 2v5 because half the people in the match left on account of not expecting any reward. There should be something for staying. It is fair for the reward to be less, even much less, than a full length warzone, but the all or nothing course Bioware has taken has had unintended consequences to be sure.

I need to ask - rather than just nerfing anything that can result in quicker CXP gains, have you thought about possibly increasing the points given to those that take longer? You're never going to keep up with the players and you'll always be one step behind if you're always looking to reduce the amount of CXP gained vs. increasing it in the areas that take longer. Incentive works.

This pretty much. In fact, I can already think of the next best ways to farm CXP after Chapters 1/2 have been nerfed, and I'm pretty sure the devs aren't even aware of those, so those should be good for farming for a while post-5.2.

Not that it really matters, in the end, Unassembled Components will be the fastest way to get the new gear anyway; there's not much point farming CXP except for swapping out a few armorings/enhancements while you don't yet have the new legendary gear.

Hey folks,

 

I talked with the team to get the scope of what Mission rewards are changing with 5.2. As some of you guessed in the thread, the following Missions are also having their CXP values reduced:

• KOTFE - Chapter 1
  
• KOTFE - Chapter 2
  

Those two along with Fractured are the only Mission rewards that are seeing major changes in 5.2. However, there are other Missions which are receiving minor tweaks as well. Just to set an expectation, beyond 5.2 we will continue to make Mission reward adjustments based on time spent vs reward. Our goal is quite simple, if you play a type of content, you should receive fairly consistent rewards across that content, difficulty, based on time spent.

 

Example: If you want to play story mode Uprisings, we want all Uprisings to give you relatively the same reward for the time you spend playing them. If an Uprising takes 5 minutes, it should give around 1/5th the reward of one that takes 25 minutes. Obviously that won't be exact, but you get the idea.

 

If I learn of any other CXP changes happening in 5.2 (or in the future) I will pass them on. Thanks everyone.

 

-eric

This will reduce the symptoms but not cure the patient. Players will simply move to another more beneficial uprising and chapter. All you have to do is make sure it takes longer for the easiest uprising/chapter and keep it in line with others regarding the reward. Nerfing the rewards only makes things go south. People will stop running those uprisings/chapters alltogether and move on to more rewarding things. If the rewards dont match the time involved, people get frustrated and stop playing until there is something in the game that is actually rewarding.

Or just make a timer for each chapter and uprising so people cant farm them. Also problem solved. Nerfing rewards isnt necessary!

But this reveals a bigger problem which you are ignoring. You rather nerf peoples fun and rewards but dont fix bugs. You certainly got your priorities straight there.