So you cleared HM Lost Island with no tank, just 3 sentinels and a healer... I call BS on that....

3 sents and healer might be BS if did by gf (tip, sentinels can't mark 'tank')

But, I went on LI HM from GF with friend mara and friend merc dps (I was operative healer) and pugged tank decided to bail on us since he won't put up with mele dps, we started clearing waiting for other tank, and in the end 3manned whole instance.pipe boss was most pain tbh, sentinel was tight, lorric was easy peasy.

a better change would be to not exclude the tank from the lightning ball thing. hell, make it drop on tank everytime. That way tank will allways have to kite, so bringing melee or ranged dps wouldn´t matter..

Still not sure if it was actually added within the recent weeks but I have been hit with the lightning drop while tanking. Others have had the same. See this thread for what others have said.

@Sithcreep

Then I wish there'd be more tanks like you. At this point, I've given up using the group finder for LI hm with my Marauder. It's bad enough to queue as dps in general, but to have the tank decline LI everytime they see melee in there, highly discouraging.

There comes a time when running LR-5 that something "clicks" and the vast difficulty goes away. My guild is melee heavy and the our first guild run that ever cleared LR-5 had two sentinel dps. Another case in point was a sentinel who had troubles troubles troubles trying to get past this boss. But then he figured it out and can now roll through that encounter like butter, one-shot routinely.

I submit to you that the melee having trouble can figure out what's going wrong, fix it, and thereby become a better player. All without changing the instance.

As for knowing when to run out (for the tank in the middle strat), the energy coils drop about the same frequency as your force leap cooldown, so use that as a timer.

All I want to see is all three boss's drop Rakata gear or better. This is a LVL2 HM FP. why are we getting Columi gear on the harder boss.

Because its still just a flashpoint, not an operation. Just be glad at least 1 piece of Rakata drops.

And as far as having melee in groups for LR-5, I prefer to have them rather than the ranged because then i get to do something rather than just standing there.

Because its still just a flashpoint, not an operation. Just be glad at least 1 piece of Rakata drops.

 

And as far as having melee in groups for LR-5, I prefer to have them rather than the ranged because then i get to do something rather than just standing there.

I think more would run it if there were better drops. Aside from the last boss and chest piece. If you have Rakata chest, why do LI when you can do any other HM FP to get the same 5 BH coms. If there were more Rakata drops, at least on this harder boss, it would not be so hard to get a group for LI.

Standing by to be discounted.

I think more would run it if there were better drops. Aside from the last boss and chest piece. If you have Rakata chest, why do LI when you can do any other HM FP to get the same 5 BH coms. If there were more Rakata drops, at least on this harder boss, it would not be so hard to get a group for LI.

 

Standing by to be discounted.

I get what you're saying. However, I think there should be a reason to do HM Ops as well, which is where players currently get the Rakata gear (well, that and SM EC)

LI giving a bunch of Rakata would eliminate HM Ops from progression, especially considering it has no lockouts.

IMO (& I have tanked this successfully a number of times on a very well-geared Guardian & under-geared Assassin) is that it is almost impossible for certain tanks to move the boss because of interrupt range.

On my Guardian I have a 4m range which is insufficient because LR-5 is not that responsive in terms of following the tank. With my Assassin I have a 10m range (plus the self-cleanse) which makes the fight infinitely easier to tank regardless of ranged v. melee dps.

IMO (& I have tanked this successfully a number of times on a very well-geared Guardian & under-geared Assassin) is that it is almost impossible for certain tanks to move the boss because of interrupt range.

 

On my Guardian I have a 4m range which is insufficient because LR-5 is not that responsive in terms of following the tank. With my Assassin I have a 10m range (plus the self-cleanse) which makes the fight infinitely easier to tank regardless of ranged v. melee dps.

on a guardian (mirror of jugg tank which I have) force jump interrupts, so if you move and he starts doing incinirate, just jump to him to interrupt and you can start moving again.

From the PTS Patch Notes.

"LR-5 Sentinel Droid’s Discharge now gives players a 4.5-second warning in Story Mode (and a 3-second warning in Hard Mode) before activating its ground effect. Players can now move the impending effect away from the group or tank. Plasma Arc no longer has an activation time and is executed while moving, and Incinerate is correctly marked as area of effect damage."

Looks like wishes have been granted... *sigh*.

Now it'll be even easier than it already was .

on a guardian (mirror of jugg tank which I have) force jump interrupts, so if you move and he starts doing incinirate, just jump to him to interrupt and you can start moving again.

Force leap isn't that effective for a few reasons 1) often time I am outside of interrupt range but too close to leap 2) often I would be leaping into a bubbling 3) I've interrupted with leap but still gotten the ticks.

Please don't suggest any changes to any part of HM LI. The bosses are meant to be harder than your normal HM Fp's for a reason. If you are getting hit by the lightning, this is not a DPS problem. It would be a Tank problem since he is not moving the boss either in time or far enough.

It's not the tanks fault all of the time. The tank does not decide where the lightning drops, and the tank does not decide how long it takes DPS to react and get out of it. The droid stops to cast, and for VG and Guardian tanks they have to stay close to interrupt the incinerate when moving or get far enough to leap back which isn't always possible and can lead to issues at times depending on where you're at in the room and where the boss is standing. Most groups leave that (interrupting) completely up to the tank. The tank can move but that doesn't mean the boss always will right away, braindead dps derping around and staying in the lightning is completely their fault. They can move out of it and stand to the side of the boss, and if they want the boss moved quicker they can try helping with interrupts.

Force leap isn't that effective for a few reasons 1) often time I am outside of interrupt range but too close to leap 2) often I would be leaping into a bubbling 3) I've interrupted with leap but still gotten the ticks.

it actually is. 1. leap is 15m minimum, interrupt is 4 m max, incinerate comes in enough time between bubbles to get in 10m,

2. its better to interrupt incinerate and get few hits from bubble then get one shot kill (ranged dps with interrupt might be helpful).

3.never happened to me, can't judge.

How hard is it for the dps to stay BEHIND the boss as the tank takes him around the room....

When an orb drops, tank moves him a little forward. All you do differently from the ranged method is EVERYONE goes around the room. As long as the dps is behind the boss and your tank doesn't lose aggro, there will be no issues.

EC SM is getting a nerf be happy you guys got that much. As far as i am concerned nerfing EC sm was a big mistake....now when people go to do EC HM they are going to get their *** kicked cause key mechanics like the bubble being targetable on Z&T will be a whole new learning curve for you.

I enjoy LI HM and EC (sm/hm) because i feel like there is actually a challenge, im not mindlessly running through it. Now that EC sm is getting nerfed all i have is LI HM and EC HM. Please, just please let me have some content that takes actual skill to do.

I'm sure i'm not the only one who feels this way too.

How hard is it for the dps to stay BEHIND the boss as the tank takes him around the room....

 

When an orb drops, tank moves him a little forward. All you do differently from the ranged method is EVERYONE goes around the room. As long as the dps is behind the boss and your tank doesn't lose aggro, there will be no issues.

 

EC SM is getting a nerf be happy you guys got that much. As far as i am concerned nerfing EC sm was a big mistake....now when people go to do EC HM they are going to get their *** kicked cause key mechanics like the bubble being targetable on Z&T will be a whole new learning curve for you.

 

I enjoy LI HM and EC (sm/hm) because i feel like there is actually a challenge, im not mindlessly running through it. Now that EC sm is getting nerfed all i have is LI HM and EC HM. Please, just please let me have some content that takes actual skill to do.

 

I'm sure i'm not the only one who feels this way too.

EC SM is already pretty damn easy unless you're completely new to it, it's doable in columi. HM is staying the same so whats the big deal? You're worried that SM is losing its challenge, so it will cause HM to be more of a challenge at first? What? Do you want a challenge or not? And you know you'll be getting a completely new operation right?

Force leap isn't that effective for a few reasons 1) often time I am outside of interrupt range but too close to leap 2) often I would be leaping into a bubbling 3) I've interrupted with leap but still gotten the ticks.

1) 2) Point! Its a little harder to tank with that joke disruption range of warrior class, but thats exactly what makes the challenge. I used to have big problems to get the interrupts for incinerate while kiting that damn robot with my jugger. But now I manage to time the kiting that he wont cast incinerate while I move him because I use LOS a lot. I move around those pillars outta his LOS and if u got aggro, he wont cast incinerate unless hes got visual contact and melee range. Its really easy even for us sucker -warrior-tanks! ;-)

3) That happened to me too a few times, so I abandoned that technique and use it only at the start and primary rely on keeping disruption range and/or LOS.

-------->>>>>>>They should definitely keep the future hms at this level at least, but preferably make it even more challenging. The whiners can still do the normal modes and Tier 1 hms. You cant take the weak and cowardly as a benchmark and nerf everything according to their desires. At least from a dark sith point of view, thats entirely beyond me.

It's not the tanks fault all of the time. The tank does not decide where the lightning drops, and the tank does not decide how long it takes DPS to react and get out of it. The droid stops to cast, and for VG and Guardian tanks they have to stay close to interrupt the incinerate when moving or get far enough to leap back which isn't always possible and can lead to issues at times depending on where you're at in the room and where the boss is standing. Most groups leave that (interrupting) completely up to the tank. The tank can move but that doesn't mean the boss always will right away, braindead dps derping around and staying in the lightning is completely their fault. They can move out of it and stand to the side of the boss, and if they want the boss moved quicker they can try helping with interrupts.

You are 100% correct that it is not the tanks fault all the time if the group composition has 2 rdps and the tank can keep the boss in the middle where nobody else is. My argument was with a group with melee where the dps and heals should be stacked behind the boss at all times. If the tank does not move the boss in time with this group composition, everyone will be getting hit with the lightning hence, it would be the tanks fault. During the times where you would need to move him out of the lightning, the boss will not be casting incinerate because it usually gets casted after plasma arc. the boss would have already been moved out of the way well before that.

latest 1.4 patch notes

'LR-5 Sentinel Droid’s Discharge now gives players a 4.5-second warning in Story Mode (and a 3-second warning in Hard Mode) before activating its ground effect. Players can now move the impending effect away from the group or tank. Plasma Arc no longer has an activation time and is executed while moving, and Incinerate is correctly marked as area of effect damage.'

there you go... it's easy mode now, no more excuses for failing.

I agree with the OP, this would put things on a even playing field with Range DPS..... The way it is now it's brutal on Melee Players... You end up having to kite the boss around with everyone following it while trying to move out of the electrical shields.... It's 100 times easier with 2 range dps.... I'm at the point I won't take melee dps into Lost Island because I end up spending 100k plus on repairs.... Right now the best way to do it is to bring range dps ONLY.....

Gotta be kidding me.

Did it Tuesday after reset with me healing as commando plus 3 melee.

Trauma Probe myself, bomb the group with the 6s CD kolto for instant AOE heal as much as needed and zap anyone getting low with Beam, BI, AMP and MP.

Job done, the fight can run around the room as much as possible and I don't care.

Mortar and Sticky the packs every now and again too.

Can't be bothered with SCC, I just build stacks and heal.

In my DPS gear which about 5 slots of accuracy on it.

Melee plus sage probably sucks the most though.

Since most healers ARE sages this probably encourages the idea that melee sucks for the fight. No, it's the wrong kind of healer for a mobile fight.

^^^^

I beg to differ. I heal it as a sage with two melee dps easy-breezy. Ive even had to recover from a mess up with tank and dps getting hit with incinerate and we made it. :-)

You are 100% correct that it is not the tanks fault all the time if the group composition has 2 rdps and the tank can keep the boss in the middle where nobody else is. My argument was with a group with melee where the dps and heals should be stacked behind the boss at all times. If the tank does not move the boss in time with this group composition, everyone will be getting hit with the lightning hence, it would be the tanks fault. During the times where you would need to move him out of the lightning, the boss will not be casting incinerate because it usually gets casted after plasma arc. the boss would have already been moved out of the way well before that.

There are many times where he stops and casts when you need to move him. And don't get me wrong, I'm not taking responsibility away from the tank, but there is never any reason whatsoever that dps should be standing in the lightning. I don't need to be told how it should work I tank it all the time and don't really care which dps comes with, but when people stand in the lightning and die then try to blame the tank it's flat out stupid. You can move to the side of the boss if he's not moving due to a cast and there is lightning, and the times when there is a tank in the "dead zone" for interrupts the dps should be interrupting. They should be ready to interrupt any time the boss needs to move just incase, and they need to move as soon as they see the lightning just incase. Tanks do not force people to stand in the lightning. I've completed LI multiple times playing tank, mdps, rdps, and heals. Most of the time when people want to blame the tank its because they were simply not paying attention themselves. Yes a bad tank can make it an awful place to run, but a good tank can't always prevent his group from being braindead, which is the point I'm trying to make.

There are many times where he stops and casts when you need to move him. And don't get me wrong, I'm not taking responsibility away from the tank, but there is never any reason whatsoever that dps should be standing in the lightning. I don't need to be told how it should work I tank it all the time and don't really care which dps comes with, but when people stand in the lightning and die then try to blame the tank it's flat out stupid. You can move to the side of the boss if he's not moving due to a cast and there is lightning, and the times when there is a tank in the "dead zone" for interrupts the dps should be interrupting. They should be ready to interrupt any time the boss needs to move just incase, and they need to move as soon as they see the lightning just incase. Tanks do not force people to stand in the lightning. I've completed LI multiple times playing tank, mdps, rdps, and heals. Most of the time when people want to blame the tank its because they were simply not paying attention themselves. Yes a bad tank can make it an awful place to run, but a good tank can't always prevent his group from being braindead, which is the point I'm trying to make.

I concur. I hear ppl a lot crying in gc blaming the tank or the heal when theyre dying at this boss while common sense would dictate to simply NOT STAND in the plasma fields. And a simple trick to ease the kiting is to assign one dps as a backup disruptor in the first place, so whenever u are out of range, u dont have to worry about incinerate.

How hard is it for the dps to stay BEHIND the boss as the tank takes him around the room....

 

When an orb drops, tank moves him a little forward. All you do differently from the ranged method is EVERYONE goes around the room. As long as the dps is behind the boss and your tank doesn't lose aggro, there will be no issues.

 

EC SM is getting a nerf be happy you guys got that much. As far as i am concerned nerfing EC sm was a big mistake....now when people go to do EC HM they are going to get their *** kicked cause key mechanics like the bubble being targetable on Z&T will be a whole new learning curve for you.

 

I enjoy LI HM and EC (sm/hm) because i feel like there is actually a challenge, im not mindlessly running through it. Now that EC sm is getting nerfed all i have is LI HM and EC HM. Please, just please let me have some content that takes actual skill to do.

 

I'm sure i'm not the only one who feels this way too.

If your doing HM EC then why would you be doing SM EC?!? Sorry but your post sounds a bit elitist.... Now that I'm doing HM EC I never do SM EC anymore... so who cares if they make it tad easier for the new people...

Bottom line is not everyone is going to measure up to the top players, so keeping certain Operations at a certain difficulty level forever is going to keep a lot of people out of doing that content... Besides, by the time Bioware nerfs a operation all the hardcore players have already done the content and moved on....