Kreia did fight in the Mandalorian Wars. She did state to the Exile (If you look at the restored content mod, though we don't know if those lines were voided on purpose) that she was the one who made her exiled. I think this may have been cut on purpose though, since it ended up to be Atris being the main focus of removing her from the order. Even though this could have been the case that she was telling the truth there, I think it is unlikely (plus she could have been talking of the figure 'Darth Traya' a.k.a. Atris or Kreia)

 

Backups to why she fought in the Mandalorians Wars:

1. As others have said the Jedi Masters said she died on Malachor and she acknowledges she was there.

2. She was one of the people who rediscovered the Malachor Academy (though probably after Revan/Malak fell)

 

Also, she never said that she didn't fight with Revan in the Mandalorian Wars. I think the OP was thinking of the endgame where she says she didn't follow him. She meant that she didn't follow him to the Unknown Regions.

 

 

As a side note, I personally believe she is Arren Kae. I think it makes plenty of sense in terms of the hints that were spread out throughout the game, much like other hints that could be related to events to come.

 

I've never played the Restored Content Mod so I can't comment on that. I do think that those lines could have been removed on purpose, but we don't know for sure. But many things point to Kreia and Arren Kae being the same person. That would be interesting, but I'm more concerned for Brianna.

Kreia did fight in the Mandalorian Wars. She did state to the Exile (If you look at the restored content mod, though we don't know if those lines were voided on purpose) that she was the one who made her exiled. I think this may have been cut on purpose though, since it ended up to be Atris being the main focus of removing her from the order. Even though this could have been the case that she was telling the truth there, I think it is unlikely (plus she could have been talking of the figure 'Darth Traya' a.k.a. Atris or Kreia)

 

Backups to why she fought in the Mandalorians Wars:

1. As others have said the Jedi Masters said she died on Malachor and she acknowledges she was there.

2. She was one of the people who rediscovered the Malachor Academy (though probably after Revan/Malak fell)

 

Also, she never said that she didn't fight with Revan in the Mandalorian Wars. I think the OP was thinking of the endgame where she says she didn't follow him. She meant that she didn't follow him to the Unknown Regions.

 

 

As a side note, I personally believe she is Arren Kae. I think it makes plenty of sense in terms of the hints that were spread out throughout the game, much like other hints that could be related to events to come.

Agreed. And a question, where does she actually confirm that she did not fight in the Mandalorian Wars?

Agreed. And a question, where does she actually confirm that she did not fight in the Mandalorian Wars?

 

I didn't discuss whether she did fight in the war or not, but I made the conclusion that she preferred meditation over fighting as a reason why she didn't fight. However, her being Arren Kae would mean that she did fight in the war. I'm going to point you at the wiki as it doesn't say she participated.

 

Normally I don't wiki stuff, but for a quick search I'll make an exception.

 

If she really is Arren Kae, then we can say she did fight in the war.

I didn't discuss whether she did fight in the war or not, but I made the conclusion that she preferred meditation over fighting as a reason why she didn't fight. However, her being Arren Kae would mean that she did fight in the war. I'm going to point you at the wiki as it doesn't say she participated.

 

Normally I don't wiki stuff, but for a quick search I'll make an exception.

 

If she really is Arren Kae, then we can say she did fight in the war.

Hmmmm, I'm just thinking if their is an exact quote or anything... Wookieepedia doesn't actually give a source, and even says some thought she went to war. But I think the only evidence against this is that she says she went to follow her padawans footsteps. She doesn't say when, so it could easily have been after the Mandalorian Wars. I think this wiki has misinterpreted

 

I'd say that he is exaggerating. Either that or the Entity told him that. Perhaps it is Abeloth? Probably not lol.

 

We could see the return of Darth Traya. Could be interesting.

I'm sure it will. All they have to do is explain why she loves the Emperor - perhaps because he would cause the death of the Force?

Hmmmm, I'm just thinking if their is an exact quote or anything... Wookieepedia doesn't actually give a source, and even says some thought she went to war. But I think the only evidence against this is that she says she went to follow her padawans footsteps. She doesn't say when, so it could easily have been after the Mandalorian Wars. I think this wiki has misinterpreted

 

 

I'm sure it will. All they have to do is explain why she loves the Emperor - perhaps because he would cause the death of the Force?

 

There is a kind of hole in Kreia's activities during the war. I went on to the wiki to compare what is on Arren Kae's page and Kreia's page in regard to the War. There is really nothing on Kreia's page, while Kae's page is mostly about the war. We could easily tie Kreia and Kae together as one person. Perhaps "Kreia" is merely an alias? Maybe "Arren Kae" is the alias? Kreia has really stumped me on this one. All I'm gonna say is that it is quite possible the two are one and I wouldn't be surprised if it were true. Definitely explains Kreia's activities during the war.

 

I forget, did the masters ever call her by the name Kreia? If they didn't, that would add more evidence to fuel the Kreia=Arren Kae controversy we have here.

 

I think your on to something with the Entity/Emperor relationship there.

The Entity could just be someone who haven't seen before. I'm still not convinced that it's supposed to be Kreia. How could Baras have disturbed her resting place if Malachor V was destroyed? Plus if they were to bring back Darth Traya, I would have preferred they do so in a way better than they did in TOR. If it was her, I really hate how they didn't get the original voice actor back. But they didn't even make her look like her and her bizarre speech pattern is nothing like Kreia's so I never really got the impression it was supposed to be anyway. And her love of the Emperor would probably have to be explained in another retcon. Edited November 26, 2012 by OldVengeance

The Entity could just be someone who haven't seen before. I'm still not convinced that it's supposed to be Kreia. How could Baras have disturbed her resting place if Malachor V was destroyed? Plus if they were to bring back Darth Traya, I would have preferred they do so in a way better than they did in TOR. If it was her, I really hate how they didn't get the original voice actor back. But they didn't even make her look like her and her bizarre speech pattern is nothing like Kreia's so I never really got the impression it was supposed to be anyway. And her love of the Emperor would probably have to be explained in another retcon.

 

You could be right. However, the Entity has glaring similarities to Kreia. Non-cosmetic similarities . I had assumed her spirit was destroyed along with Malachor, but we will have to wait and see.

Perhaps "Kreia" is merely an alias? Maybe "Arren Kae" is the alias? Kreia has really stumped me on this one. All I'm gonna say is that it is quite possible the two are one and I wouldn't be surprised if it were true. Definitely explains Kreia's activities during the war.

 

I forget, did the masters ever call her by the name Kreia? If they didn't, that would add more evidence to fuel the Kreia=Arren Kae controversy we have here.

 

I think your on to something with the Entity/Emperor relationship there.

Well, Atris says 'Kreia, that is not her name!' (I'm not sure when) - while she could be referring to her Sith title as Darth Traya it is more likely she recognized the old woman as Arren Kae and therefore was referring to Kreia as a alias. The fact that Arren Kae is who the Disciple and Brianna calls her seems to support this. But thats only if Kreia is Arren Kae - but if she is, then Arren would be her real name.

 

I don't think there is really any evidence against Kreia being Arren Kae - the only thing that stands in our way is the fact is was never actually confirmed - so we have to take a leap of faith.

 

The Entity could just be someone who haven't seen before. I'm still not convinced that it's supposed to be Kreia. How could Baras have disturbed her resting place if Malachor V was destroyed? Plus if they were to bring back Darth Traya, I would have preferred they do so in a way better than they did in TOR. If it was her, I really hate how they didn't get the original voice actor back. But they didn't even make her look like her and her bizarre speech pattern is nothing like Kreia's so I never really got the impression it was supposed to be anyway. And her love of the Emperor would probably have to be explained in another retcon.

I can't give you a source but I distinctly remember reading that one BioWare writer (obviously not the one who wrote the SW story) said that he thinks it is supposed to be Kreia. He doesn't say it is but being a writer, again I can't remember who, his word does have some value.

 

But I agree, if it is Kreia I don't think I'm too happy with how she's been brought back. The voice I'm OK with, she sound cryptic and that's alright. Its the lore surrounding here though, too many plotholes and too many opportunities for retcons.

 

Her bizzare speech pattern isn't too hard to explain. She is a force ghost after all - but then again it seems a bit pointless... And about Malachor, lets assume she did become a force ghost (seems likely, powerful sith, determined etc) she would have been bound to the remains of Malachor. And there were remains, basically it became an asteroid field with a bunch of broken ships. So she could have easily haunted it.

 

The main thing is though, I can think of no other female Sith who brought the Jedi to near extinction other than Kreia. In fact I think we can safely say there is no other. Kreia seems the only choice, but time will tell... (give us Chapter 4 already! End this plot hole torment!)

 

EDIT: Found the source! It is in fact Drew Karpyshyn - author of Darth Revan and other OR novels, and former lead writer of SWTOR, so his word has weight. But anyway, he says this:

 

Q: Can you confirm that the Sith Entity from the Sith Warrior's storyline is in fact Kreia? Or give any hint/clue related to this? Codex entry about the entity seems very familiar and Kreia fits into it perfectly. Will we get to see more of the sith entity in SW:TOR's future storyline?

 

A: I didn't write this, so I can't comment 100%. But I think it's suppposed to be Kreia.

 

It also gives some info about Revan's fate - so you can read it here

Edited November 26, 2012 by Beniboybling

Well, Atris says 'Kreia, that is not her name!' (I'm not sure when) - while she could be referring to her Sith title as Darth Traya it is more likely she recognized the old woman as Arren Kae and therefore was referring to Kreia as a alias. The fact that Arren Kae is who the Disciple and Brianna calls her seems to support this. But thats only if Kreia is Arren Kae - but if she is, then Arren would be her real name.

 

I don't think there is really any evidence against Kreia being Arren Kae - the only thing that stands in our way is the fact is was never actually confirmed - so we have to take a leap of faith.

 

 

I can't give you a source but I distinctly remember reading that one BioWare writer (obviously not the one who wrote the SW story) said that he thinks it is supposed to be Kreia. He doesn't say it is but being a writer, again I can't remember who, his word does have some value.

 

But I agree, if it is Kreia I don't think I'm too happy with how she's been brought back. The voice I'm OK with, she sound cryptic and that's alright. Its the lore surrounding here though, too many plotholes and too many opportunities for retcons.

 

Her bizzare speech pattern isn't too hard to explain. She is a force ghost after all - but then again it seems a bit pointless... And about Malachor, lets assume she did become a force ghost (seems likely, powerful sith, determined etc) she would have been bound to the remains of Malachor. And there were remains, basically it became an asteroid field with a bunch of broken ships. So she could have easily haunted it.

 

The main thing is though, I can think of no other female Sith who brought the Jedi to near extinction other than Kreia. In fact I think we can safely say there is no other. Kreia seems the only choice, but time will tell... (give us Chapter 4 already! End this plot hole torment!)

 

I think you may be right on both accounts. There's no evidence to suggest that Kreia is not Arren Kae. I would like to know if she is, that would fill up that plot hole in her life.

 

I think we might get an answer to the identity of the Entity some time. Wouldn't it be awesome if she were referred to as Arren Kae? Obviously they would call her Darth Traya (if she is Traya), but that would be so awesome. Fill multiple plot holes with one sentence. But then they would have even more questions to answer.

I think you may be right on both accounts. There's no evidence to suggest that Kreia is not Arren Kae. I would like to know if she is, that would fill up that plot hole in her life.

 

I think we might get an answer to the identity of the Entity some time. Wouldn't it be awesome if she were referred to as Arren Kae? Obviously they would call her Darth Traya (if she is Traya), but that would be so awesome. Fill multiple plot holes with one sentence. But then they would have even more questions to answer.

If you read the article I just posted, about the Entity. The interiewer refers to Kreia as Kreia/Arren Kae. Drew doesn't comment - so perhaps this is basically become everyones head canon

If you read the article I just posted, about the Entity. The interiewer refers to Kreia as Kreia/Arren Kae. Drew doesn't comment - so perhaps this is basically become everyones head canon

 

Yeah, I missed the article you posted while I was replying. But I did read it. All that we need is for someone to (finally) confirm it and we're good. So excited. This is one of the things that's bugged me for a while now. Glad to see its a common idea.

yeah, i missed the article you posted while i was replying. But i did read it. All that we need is for someone to (finally) confirm it and we're good. So excited. This is one of the things that's bugged me for a while now. Glad to see its a common idea.

HEY BIOWARE! THIS! THIS! Whip up some lore and fill these plot holes!

HEY BIOWARE! THIS! THIS! Whip up some lore and fill these plot holes!

 

Wouldn't it be awesome if the Inquisitor tried to eat the Entity, but she took control of him? How awesome would that be?!

 

Not gonna happen, but it would be cool. Maybe she can take over a DC member and escape. Give her a big role Bioware! Fill the plot holes and we will be greatful.

I forget, did the masters ever call her by the name Kreia? If they didn't, that would add more evidence to fuel the Kreia=Arren Kae controversy we have here.

 

No and when you call her Kreia infront of Atris she states "Kreia? that is not her name..blah blah blah."

No and when you call her Kreia infront of Atris she states "Kreia? that is not her name..blah blah blah."

 

Yeah? It's been a while since I played KOTOR II. The connection between Arren Kae and Kreia is too great to ignore.

 

Side-note: Why is Atris the way she is? I'm not versed in her past, mainly because she's kind of a bag.

I think it was a combination of the fact the was arrogant in the past and the fact that she secretly fell to the darkside during her stay on Telos.

I think it was a combination of the fact the was arrogant in the past and the fact that she secretly fell to the darkside during her stay on Telos.

 

I think you may be right. She had fallen to the Dark Side after so much time with those Sith Holocrons.

 

But I think she was kind of a bag to begin with.

Firstly to the confirmation of Arren Kae/Kreia...that has never occurred (as far as I'm aware, at least before TOR came out). I remember an old article where someone asked a KOTOR2 writer and he said "good guess, sorry, no comment" or something along those lines. I think it is meant to be a mystery to keep Kreia mysterious even after the end of the game (since I can't believe that the modders wouldn't have found any voice files or text on an Arren Kae/Kreia speech; I mean the developers left text of a Jedi Padawan never used on Dantooine, far less important)

 

Also as a side note, before the game was released a developer answered my question about if mysteries will be answered from the KOTOR2 storyline and he said yes. The forums were purged though so it is not visible anymore to confirm .

 

Side-note: Why is Atris the way she is? I'm not versed in her past, mainly because she's kind of a bag.

Kreia explains who Atris is in both the original game and the restored content mod. Mostly, Atris is Kreia at a younger age. Atris decides that the only way that she can defeat the Sith is to know their power from within and destroy them that way. Therefore she collects Sith Holocrons and falls to the dark side. Also, she doesn't train any Padawans at the Telos Jedi Academy since she doesn't want them to sense a dark side presence in her (therefore she doesn't allow the Handmaidens to learn the force). Finally, a major betrayal that she committed was when she allowed all of the Jedi on Katarr to be lured into a trap so she could see what the threat was that she faced, she fled Katarr after she found out Nihilius was too powerful to defeat at that time (she probably was in a ship on the edge of the solar system when he was destroying life on Katarr). So mostly, in the end Atris ends up to be dark side Kreia, since she betrayed the Jedi Order. There were other similarities between Atris and Kreia, for example, both were Jedi Historians.

Side-note: Why is Atris the way she is? I'm not versed in her past, mainly because she's kind of a bag.

I don't think she's gotta chip on her shoulder or anything she's just an arrogant fanatic. Basically she's a character that represents everything that's wrong with the Jedi.

It's been a while since I played KotOR2, but I remember thinking that Atris wasn't even aware of her situation. Her extreme, narrow-minded devotion to the Light Side drove her to corruption.

 

I still think of her not as of the Dark Side, but as corrupted Light. Where bravery and justice get twisted into valor, vanity and dogma.

I don't think she's gotta chip on her shoulder or anything she's just an arrogant fanatic. Basically she's a character that represents everything that's wrong with the Jedi.

 

Yeah, she fits that description perfectly. I'm glad Kreia set her straight. She was deluding herself the whole time.

 

Kreia FTW!

I still think of her not as of the Dark Side, but as corrupted Light. Where bravery and justice get twisted into valor, vanity and dogma.

This is also a very good description. But I would disagree with 'corrupted Light'. I think your mixing philosophy with the Force. Kreia for example, was dark side but not Sith. Atris did fall to the dark side, but she did not become Sith - more like a corrupted Jedi who had twisted her teachings to serve her dark purpose. Like Traya says then she confront her "Sith is a title, yes, but like you, the title is not who I am".

 

Also I think in many ways she becomes Darth Traya - remember what Kreia said 'there must always be a Darth Traya'? I think she was referring to Atris, she had betrayed the Order on Katarr, betrayed herself by falling to the dark side and betrayed the Exile by turning her over to the Sith. The fact that originally she was going to be Darth Traya lends itself to this.

This is also a very good description. But I would disagree with 'corrupted Light'. I think your mixing philosophy with the Force. Kreia for example, was dark side but not Sith. Atris did fall to the dark side, but she did not become Sith - more like a corrupted Jedi who had twisted her teachings to serve her dark purpose. Like Traya says then she confront her "Sith is a title, yes, but like you, the title is not who I am".

 

Also I think in many ways she becomes Darth Traya - remember what Kreia said 'there must always be a Darth Traya'? I think she was referring to Atris, she had betrayed the Order on Katarr, betrayed herself by falling to the dark side and betrayed the Exile by turning her over to the Sith. The fact that originally she was going to be Darth Traya lends itself to this.

 

I agree with your catogrization of Sith and Darksiders.

 

The Dark side is a moral belief as well as a mindset

 

The Sith is a more specific set of beliefs and is a government as well.

 

It goes kinda like this: All Sith are Dark siders, but not all Dark siders are Sith.

I agree with your catogrization of Sith and Darksiders.

 

The Dark side is a moral belief as well as a mindset

 

The Sith is a more specific set of beliefs and is a government as well.

 

It goes kinda like this: All Sith are Dark siders, but not all Dark siders are Sith.

It's not even a moral belief. Many people, Atris included, would deny believing in the dark side but still use it. Atris was in denial for a long time, she had fell way before you confronted her. If your a Jedi and in the heat of battle you give in to anger and use the dark side, you don't believe in it - you just use it instinctively. We just have to remember the Force is a living entity, not a belief. All it takes if for you to give in to your emotions, however inadvertently, to draw on it.

 

So:

 

The Dark Side is an aspect of the Force

 

Darksiders are those who wield the dark side.

 

Sith is a sect of Force sensitives who also wield the dark side.

 

But yes I agree "All Sith are Dark siders, but not all Dark siders are Sith" - e.g. the Nightsisters, Kreia.

It's not even a moral belief. Many people, Atris included, would deny believing in the dark side but still use it. Atris was in denial for a long time, she had fell way before you confronted her. If your a Jedi and in the heat of battle you give in to anger and use the dark side, you don't believe in it - you just use it instinctively. We just have to remember the Force is a living entity, not a belief. All it takes if for you to give in to your emotions, however inadvertently, to draw on it.

 

So:

 

The Dark Side is an aspect of the Force

 

Darksiders are those who wield the dark side.

 

Sith is a sect of Force sensitives who also wield the dark side.

 

But yes I agree "All Sith are Dark siders, but not all Dark siders are Sith" - e.g. the Nightsisters, Kreia.

 

You're right about that. There are several cults of Force users that use the Force in a certain way. They aren't considered Jedi or Sith.