It's not about the nerf as per say it's about how they achieve it thus why most sane players want new content because first of all that is what they're paying for and I honestly don't blame also wonder why they're doing these nerfs and how it has come to this?

 

So I'll just drop this here...

 

Classes are coming out untested and are "over performing ".

This leads to nerfing, which ends up with your customers being unhappy.

Instead you should be aiming towards classes "under performing" and then figure out how you need to buff them which makes the customers happy!

Two different approaches to the same problem but how you achieve it makes a world of difference.

 

Again, I agree with using a different approach, there are other ways, possibly a bit complex but still, that would have ensured we had the same result with more difficult content but while at the same time ensuring players are seeing the same numbers. Buffing the underperforming classes and at the same time buffing bosses HP; the damage deal and other aspects of content even more.

Edited September 26, 2017 by RikuvonDrake

Again, I agree with using a different approach, there are other ways, possibly a bit complex but still, that would have ensured we had the same result with more difficult content but while at the same time ensuring players are seeing the same numbers. Buffing the underperforming classes and at the same time buffing bosses HP; the damage deal and other aspects of content even more.

 

It's not only the different approach it's the fact people are paying for new content not stretched out which has been rinsed and repeated.

Personally I haven't had a problem with any new content be it story or group content. (Although I've never been a fan of the story since the class stories out shines any content afterwards with exception to Oricon).

 

With that being said I believe they've been balancing classes wrong this whole time and I understand that it is hard but they're trying to hard to achieve it without thinking.

 

The only real balance that matters is PvP with PvE content you can attack that from a different angle be it bolster/syncing.

Edited September 26, 2017 by DarthSealth

It's not about the nerf as per say it's about how they achieve it.

Most sane players want new content first of all because that is what they're paying for and I honestly don't blame them. Some also wonder why they're doing these nerfs and how it has come to this?

 

So I'll just drop this here...

 

Classes are coming out untested and are "over performing ".

This leads to nerfing, which ends up with your customers being unhappy.

Instead you should be aiming towards classes "under performing" and then figure out how you need to buff them which makes the customers happy!

Two different approaches to the same problem but how you achieve it makes a world of difference.

I have always noticed MMOs will typically overbuff to allow more players to participate and complete the hardest endgame content. As people learn rotations and mechanics of the fights, they are able to nerf/tune the classes based on metrics of performance, consistency, frequency of class vs others, etc. If they undertune to start, people leave and complain about content being impossible. No win situation either way.

I have always noticed MMOs will typically overbuff to allow more players to participate and complete the hardest endgame content. As people learn rotations and mechanics of the fights, they are able to nerf/tune the classes based on metrics of performance, consistency, frequency of class vs others, etc. If they undertune to start, people leave and complain about content being impossible. No win situation either way.

 

Sorry but I disagree with that.

 

it is that with all changes leads to testing.

Testing causes time constraints.

 

Every time we receive something new even when the game came out and was in Beta I did and countless others begged Bioware not to release it if was released with what patch 1.2 (i think it was a long time ago) it would have been fine.

 

But this seems to always happen and 9/10 times they ignore the advice.

Sorry but I disagree with that.

 

it is that with all changes leads to testing.

Testing causes time constraints.

 

Every time we receive something new even when the game came out and was in Beta I did and countless others begged Bioware not to release it if was released with what patch 1.2 (i think it was a long time ago) it would have been fine.

 

But this seems to always happen and 9/10 times they ignore the advice.

Beta testers tend to overreact and ask for a complete overhaul of system/balance/content changes they have issues with. Ive seen it firsthand in multiple games. Instead, beta testers/test servwr participants need to make small tweak suggestions, knowing that devs arent going to completely scrap the entire plan they spent months and months preparing.

i think this nerf is already set in stones and nothing will change bioware because if they revert this then they also need to revert all other classes that is nerfed like markman sniper recent post update

i think this nerf is already set in stones and nothing will change bioware because if they revert this then they also need to revert all other classes that is nerfed like markman sniper recent post update

 

Yep, they proven many times in the past that once they announce something like this, it is set in stone....no amount of "feedback" will change their minds. Just sad they are so horse-blindered and narrow minded.

Beta testers tend to overreact and ask for a complete overhaul of system/balance/content changes they have issues with. Ive seen it firsthand in multiple games. Instead, beta testers/test servwr participants need to make small tweak suggestions, knowing that devs arent going to completely scrap the entire plan they spent months and months preparing.

 

I guess you didn't participate in this particular Beta because we all said launch was going to be a rocky road which it was we just didn't sugarcoat it.

When issues like non visible npcs and other little hiccups/bugs minor ones which only needed to be polished out.

 

Which a lot did around patch 1.x but if you was to know you'd find the patch was quite close to release date and the number of fixes but I remember it was abit late because player base died out when I could login to my server no problem and have no trouble with MMO quests like gathering items via killing a beast because hardly anyone was on Tython compared to launch.

Deception was overperforming. Glad to see this changes

I have always noticed MMOs will typically overbuff to allow more players to participate and complete the hardest endgame content. As people learn rotations and mechanics of the fights, they are able to nerf/tune the classes based on metrics of performance, consistency, frequency of class vs others, etc. If they undertune to start, people leave and complain about content being impossible. No win situation either way.

 

Also just to state are class nerfs not for them to underperform you'll see not so long away a buff of some sort which will lead to a nerf. Starting off people know no better and I have never heard nor seen people leave or complain over such I have seen quite the opposite people leaving because of untested content whether class changes or new content.

IMO, BW is now staffed by fools and idiots. (Probably has been all along.) I realize there is no chance of enough content to keep people happy, but nerfing classes so it is mathematically impossible to complete content isn't the way to stretch what you've got. My raid group is on the edge of falling apart because we can't progress due to all the foolish nerfs BW has done and is doing. We keep having to back up to try to work back up to where we were months ago. I can't believe this just keeps going on. And I can't believe the idiots making these decisions are still employed anywhere. As soon as my team give up, I'm out. I'm doing month by month so I can drop out at any time. This game isn't worth the time or effort anymore and his hasn't been fun since 3.3 or so. You just keep making it worse.

 

BW, give it up, shut it down and go get your unemployment checks. That might be something you can be good at.

Wut? Since when did deception need such a huge nerf? They are gonna be as bad as new arsenal after this. Edited September 26, 2017 by DarthZaul

Keith's Roadmap for the second half of 2017:

 

☑ Piss off every single player still around

☑ Forget about new content for the most part (more op bosses? But we already made two?! New PvP? Eh!)

☐ Get every last player to leave

☐ Get game shut down

 

Good to have goals, innit...

Edited September 26, 2017 by Kaldron_Fell

Finnaly they will be nerfed

Nerfs were needed, for sure. These seem a bit harsh. Still, I would accept them if Hatred was in a better state. It's is like Innovative Ordnance and Arsenal. Even after nerfs most people will still play Deception because Hatred is missing a lot of things. Edited September 26, 2017 by Equeliber

let's look at the positives

 

1) this is a PvE nerf, through and through, so at least no one will be raging at the "whiny pvpers" for once, unless I missed the horde of people crying about OMGOP!!! dec/infil shadowsins infesting warzones (the history of this class and spec makes one suspicious that such an individual may reside among the combat team however)

 

2) we may have a reason to switch to Hatred more often than "lol wut?" Healers are going to be overwhelmed with joy, I'm sure, especially the sorcs (win/win, as we're still sore about that phasewalk business after all)

 

3) this time it took them 10 months and 5 patches to swat us down, usually we're the first to take it. Progress?

 

The whole disaster that 5.0 has been, it had one thing going for it, for me: my favorite class and discipline was finally capable of being excellent for raiding (that doesn't mean I was excellent, but the *potential* was there ).

 

And yet, you didn't see raiding teams overtaken by shadowsin dps, especially after the double stance bug was fixed (and rightly so obviously. *That* was truly OP). Not so much overperforming in the real (pixeled) world when your only raid utility is either something that will make you lose ton of dps (stealth rez) and unreliable (we use cloak rotationally) or needs a major screw-up happening (admittedly, we can do some sick emergency tanking sometimes, depending on bosses).

 

If this is a way to encourage us to use Hatred more often, I hope they remember to make it less lol-squishy when they finally look at utilities and defenses for all classes or give it another dps buff if it's condemned to remain such a delicate flower.

 

Anyway, whatever. The only surprise is it took this long. So, can we now have phasewalk back, please? :rolleyes:

too much

 

Too much was really needed

inb4 exilove starts drama against some random people

 

Haha serves Exilove right!!

Another pointless nerf while the real problems go unaddressed.

 

Deception needed to be nerfed cause of pvp its was simply crazy what sins could do with you!

Assasins had it coming!

 

This nerf is spot on! Lets be honest the spec was good for PVE and overperforming in PVP so it should have been on top of the list for nerfs. Im glad it came to this and now the spec is decent for PVP and useful for some PVE fights. In general people should go hatred for PVE as its sustained dmg, which is mostly needed for PVE fights.

I mean this is some very serious calculation to have adjusted an ability by 5.15% and not just 5.0% .... either that or the poo they threw at the class change wall was sliding down the board a bit.

 

Hal you still around?

 

Must be a very serious nerf when you put a comment to it. But they were too OP in ranked so this was needed.

Bioware, why do you do everything to make the life of your few remaining players harder?

 

What do you try to achieve with that? Do you hate your players?

 

It's like every change you make is AGAINST players. What is the point? Don't you make the game FOR players?

 

they seem to be killing all classes. It is almost like they put 248 gear in the game but didnt want anyone to benefit from it. So they are kneecapping all classes so that we just have the grind but no benefit. And then they wonder why they have dwindling subscriber numbers.

 

^^this, unfortunately. And this:

 

We are in the mists of changes that bring no good to this game. They don't add fun or entertainment to a game that is struggling and thats a problem.

 

This also:

 

I think the other thing people in this forum needs to stop agreeing with them saying "yeah I think it needed a nerf but not this much"

The other thing is people need to stop calling for nerfs maybe instead just ask for buffs of the particular class you feel needs a buff and maybe these things won't happen.

 

You need to stick together because it is actually us vs them plain and simple they obviously don't care about us (...)

 

And:

 

I have always noticed MMOs will typically overbuff to allow more players to participate and complete the hardest endgame content. As people learn rotations and mechanics of the fights, they are able to nerf/tune the classes based on metrics of performance, consistency, frequency of class vs others, etc. If they undertune to start, people leave and complain about content being impossible. No win situation either way.

 

Players get it. BW doesn't.

 

I kinda have this feeling as well by now:

 

Keith's Roadmap for the second half of 2017:

 

☑ Piss off every single player still around

☑ Forget about new content for the most part (more op bosses? But we already made two?! New PvP? Eh!)

☐ Get every last player to leave

☐ Get game shut down

 

Good to have goals, innit...

Edited September 26, 2017 by JattaGin

Now, I realize most of these comments are wasted on a tunnel vision focused community such as the Assassin/Shadow, but I am sure that following these readjustments and as you realize that doing 9.3k instead of 9.8k still is more than enough for all content, you will know that I was right.

PvE isn't the only part of the game. Culling the burst is a kick in the teeth of a spec that was already garbage in tank/healer games and mediocre at best in other matches. Just having a good CC toolkit doesn't help if there is no muscle behind it. TTK in this game is way too long as it is and this balancing approach does nothing to help it.

 

Also, Carnage is supposed to be in the same tier as Deception when it comes to damage. They are already performing above Deception, so clearly their own damage categories don't make a lot of sense. But as you pointed out, you don't necessarily agree with this idiotic system either.

Deception needed to be nerfed cause of pvp its was simply crazy what sins could do with you!

Assassin was right at the middle of DPS classes in PvP. Sorc, PT and Juggernaut were behind, Ops around equal, Mara, Merc and Sniper leaps and bounds ahead.

Well thank the Lord, FINALLY this happened. I mean, mercs where just rolling over left, right and centre in wz's so a nerf was really needed. And as for PVE, same thing, God forbid a numerical disparity in output when grinding the same age old operations for eternity. And besides, being melee isnt a disadvantage cause I can just run up to my target anyways. At this point I dont think I could handle new content for at least another year, way too excited about grinding the new FP with this new class balance in place.