Friendly Fire has definitely killed the first boss on TFB Nim.

Please do more research before calling a top guild out.

Fair enough.

 

I do find the petty sniping towards D&T more than a little silly.

 

Debate the issue of skipping bosses, but to sneer and call D&T "casual" is just unneeded.

 

Edit: Incidentally, when you say "do more research", what are you referring to? I was unable to find any mention of their running NM TfB in the main progression thread, in the ToFN sub-forum, or on their website.

Edited June 15, 2013 by Khevar

Fair enough.

 

I do find the petty sniping towards D&T more than a little silly.

 

Debate the issue of skipping bosses, but to sneer and call D&T "casual" is just unneeded.

 

Edit: Incidentally, when you say "do more research", what are you referring to? I was unable to find any mention of their running NM TfB in the main progression thread, in the ToFN sub-forum, or on their website.

 

 

Google.com

Edited June 15, 2013 by rsuhandy

As a GM and raid leader of one of the few 16m teams this is my take on it:

 

I'm in favor, whether stated or not in some "rules", that bosses should indeed be downed in sequential order. That is how the instances are fabricated and that is how they are cleared. I don't have any issue if a guild wants to skip around in instances and down bosses. That is their choice. With that being said they most should show enough modesty to not come near competitive progression threads. Yes there is some competition involved with what they've done, but the progression portion was circumvented. We do have progression on a boss and progression in an operation. They go hand in hand with each other.

 

When EC Nim was released my raid team had already cleared half the instance on HM before Nim went live. We logged in and two shot the Minesweeper fight. Did we run to the forums to claim world and server firsts? Hell no! We did the bosses out of order and resigned ourselves to beginning actual progression after the next lockout.

 

These games have people of all kinds of value systems playing them. Some question what would be the most honorable approach to situations and some are still working on that. Those that have already figured it out tolerate the others while they catch up.

 

This is why I strongly believe that the HM and Nim should not share the same lockout when they reward different loot tiers. All of this could be avoided.

ot:

 

 

Remember thought that that WAS was with the NiM pilgrim buff. 0% was 11k hp left on kelsara. Tomorrow they will attempt it again obviously no more Nim pilgrim buff, but i think they will have more grenades this time round.

 

for what its worth if suckafish had a better healer than the one streaming they may have downed the boss last night

not trying to sound mean but real talk man, real talk

Edited June 15, 2013 by bigheadbrandon

 

Google.com

Thank you.

 

Out of curiosity, what's your take on the Dread Guard skipping?

Thank you.

 

Out of curiosity, what's your take on the Dread Guard skipping?

 

(even tho the question isn't directed at me:p ) IIRC no one in the 16-man division is skipping anything. They had discussed and agreed on it a long time ago. Here is their NiM TFB spreadsheet fyi https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgCWcFAbOaZwdGsxTkhBV290Rm9DeDlyR2p5eUEzdlE#gid=18

Edited June 18, 2013 by paowee

Thank you.

 

Out of curiosity, what's your take on the Dread Guard skipping?

 

I personally don't care if a guild decides to skip, as this is a game.

However, if you decide to participate in a competitive community driven forum thread, it would be best to get the approval of the community before skipping a boss. Personally since D&T participated in this forum I feel that should not have skipped and by doing so DQ'd themselves on the last 3 bosses until next week. However their kills are still world first but an * will always be by those world first kills in the minds of those that are against skipping.

WTB more KaboomzZz here Edited June 17, 2013 by paowee

I personally don't care if a guild decides to skip, as this is a game.

However, if you decide to participate in a competitive community driven forum thread, it would be best to get the approval of the community before skipping a boss. Personally since D&T participated in this forum I feel that should not have skipped and by doing so DQ'd themselves on the last 3 bosses until next week. However their kills are still world first but an * will always be by those world first kills in the minds of those that are against skipping.

 

 

Where exactly in forum rules did it say bosses had to be killed in any sort of order? (Oh that is right it does not).

 

You can asterisk anything you want, but it again just comes down to DnT: 4, Hoth: 1, everyone else 0.

Where exactly in forum rules did it say bosses had to be killed in any sort of order? (Oh that is right it does not).

 

You can asterisk anything you want, but it again just comes down to DnT: 4, Hoth: 1, everyone else 0.

 

I think i agree. You can't really change the rules once the game starts.

Edited June 17, 2013 by paowee

Its pointless to ask me to post, firstly because nothing we are discussing will ever make it off the internet; e.g. talked to bob at work today about his emorals when playing videogames specifically competitive raiding something like maybe 100 people care about tops - and secondly because in my mind I see no issue; we killed some bosses first, was DG doable; maybe obviously but we made the decision to skip it and clear the rest; its very obviously not tuned correctly even if it is killable i think thats fairly agreeable, but there are a lot of other things to consider. Nobody here is being paid to play swtor, we dont care about the 'eurovision' of anything much less our guilds emorality I mean cmon be serious.

 

We werent claiming first clear, we openly admitted we were skipping this dumb DG encounter, we streamed the whole thing and the amount of people watching was easily the whole target audience for this small scene anyway but there were no initial complaints, and we were willing to compromise with half points for bosses after DG because it seemed reasonable - we are a multigame community and that whats common. In the end it doesnt matter because when the 7 people in the future ask who killed something first ultimately its not going to matter what you tell them, at least if youre honest and say DNT they may have heard the name before and be more willing to play at a competitive level.

 

If we cared about anyone elses feelings we wouldnt be around still. We win, the end justifys the means. iPhone typos.

Edited June 17, 2013 by KaboomzZz
iphone2

Where exactly in forum rules did it say bosses had to be killed in any sort of order? (Oh that is right it does not).

 

You can asterisk anything you want, but it again just comes down to DnT: 4, Hoth: 1, everyone else 0.

 

I never said that they didn't kill the bosses first.

Whether or not the community respects them is a different story.

Rules are changed all the time because of exploits/workarounds. Any system that rewards actually just quitting on one race in order to get the jump on people who aren't quitters is not a legitimate system, and the rules should be changed after the fact to reflect that. Strict adherence to a loophole in the poorly written original rules is foolish when it results in an outcome entirely against the spirit of the competition. It's pretty absurd that this is even a discussion, if a fight is possible but insanely difficult, why would you reward those who gave up earlier, in any way?

With no change to NiM DG this week (I assume this as there was no mention on the patch notes), it gives Death and Taxes and other guilds who gave up and skipped an opportunity at redemption. I have made comments earlier disparaging Death and Taxes for their decision to skip. But the truth is, I respect them and know they are hella pro. I think I was just disappointed that such a storied guild gave up so quickly. It is understandable though given the confidence level of the members of that guild and raid team. They know by now what to expect in a fight and determined that there was something wrong. Indeed, it seems evident that the fight is overtuned but who knows for sure.

 

Anyway, GL to D&T this week. Now that "impossible" DG NiM and the rest of NiM TfB has been cleared by DiLiH and Suckafish, hopefully that will be incentive and encouragement for others, including D&T to get back in there and down them. Right now, DiLiH and Suckafish stand alone at the top of the pyramid. This week is an opportunity for others to step up and show they belong up there with them. Good luck to all!