Thanks for the detailed feedback.

Great explanation Eric...thank you.

I appreciate the update on the decision as I was slightly upset last night when I first learned of the increase. Part of me thinks it would have been wise to post this just prior or immediately after the patch to avoid some of the forum drama but the other part me knows those same people wouldn't have read it (or flat out ignored it). You were doomed either way I guess. Edited June 29, 2016 by Bruticis

I appreciate the update on the decision as I was slightly upset last night when I first learned of the increase. Part of me thinks it would have been wise to post this just prior or immediately after the patch to avoid some of the forum drama but the other part me knows those same people wouldn't have read it (or flat out ignored it). You were doomed either way I guess.

What bunk. Communication buys them TONS of good will. They'd have been defended and applauded had they simply posted this info yesterday. Obviously someone knew this had changed...who the hell didn't tell the guy writing the patch notes?

Given that nobody seems to have noticed (or at least rode to BW's defense on their gleaming white chargers) that the packs per crate count had risen, much less that the items per pack had also risen, I'll have to agree that this might have been a good idea to have posted yesterday.

 

I'm getting the impression that this patch was finalized a lot later than usual, and some of the post-finalization tasks were rushed and/or overlooked.

Given that nobody seems to have noticed (or at least rode to BW's defense on their gleaming white chargers) that the packs per crate count had risen, much less that the items per pack had also risen, I'll have to agree that this might have been a good idea to have posted yesterday.

 

I'm getting the impression that this patch was finalized a lot later than usual, and some of the post-finalization tasks were rushed and/or overlooked.

 

No surprise there BW is late as usual.

 

KotFE Launch Packs (1 pack item) – 200 Cartel Coins

Pack Item

Companion Gift

 

Also didn't KOTFE packs have 2 pack items like the revenge pack for example doesn't it give you two items?

Edited June 29, 2016 by squirrelballz

What bunk. Communication buys them TONS of good will. They'd have been defended and applauded had they simply posted this info yesterday. Obviously someone knew this had changed...who the hell didn't tell the guy writing the patch notes?

 

Oh come on, I know you've seen numerous posts of people moaning about something that was already clearly laid out in a dev post. Which is followed up with dozens of other people agreeing with the person screaming about the issue and devolves into the usual whiny, vocal minority upset about nothing.

Edited June 29, 2016 by Bruticis

Hey folks,

 

Yesterday, we made a few changes to how Cartel Packs work with the release of the GEMINI pack. I want to share the changes that were made to the pack.

 

Grand Chance Cubes/Bronze Items

The primary feedback we have heard from players over the past few months is that you would prefer to receive Bronze items rather than Chance Cubes. For that reason, one of the first things you will notice is that we have re-introduced Bronze items back into the Cartel Pack. Although you can get amazing items out of the cubes, we took your feedback and made the following changes:

• We have introduced multiple Bronze items into the GEMINI Pack.
  
• To allow for the addition above, the drop rate of Grand Chance Cubes has been greatly reduced.
  

 

Pack Pricing Changes

You will notice that with the GEMINI Pack, the price has moved back to 300 Cartel Coins. As with any price change we want you to understand why it changed. The short explanation is that we have item slots to the packs, packs contained fewer slots with the launch of KotFE and therefore the pricing was lowered. Now that we have added items and value to the pack in the form of additional slots, we adjusted the price to match. Here is a more detailed breakdown.

 

Pre-KotFE Packs (2 pack items) – 300 Cartel Coins discounted to 250 Cartel Coins for launch

• Pack item
  
• Pack item
  
• Additional items including companion gifts, etc.
  

 

KotFE Launch Packs (1 pack item) – 200 Cartel Coins

• Pack Item
  
• Companion Gift
  

 

GEMINI Pack (2 pack items) – 300 Cartel Coins discounted to 250 Cartel Coins for launch

• Pack Item
  
• Pack Item
  
• Additional items including companion gifts, etc.
  

 

You may also notice that Hypercrates are more expensive than before. We added 6 more packs into each Hypercrate with KotFE and so the price is reflective of that change. The price per pack in a Hypercrate is actually lower than the pre-KotFE numbers. Thank you for your understanding and support! As always, the team will continue to look to your feedback regarding packs and their content.

 

-eric

 

The price increase is still not acceptable, if the packs gave for example 6x more items (so 120 items instead of giving 20) what they give now then you had a very good reason to increase the pack price. Let me remind you all that the drop rates of the 5500 hypercrates since 4.0 are very low on deco's and quite bad, the old hypercrates where also way to expensive and terrible drop rates. It was better if you lowered the price too 2500 cartel coins, because that is more to true price, no scrap that better to make it 1000 cc. Paying 40 bucks for getting random items is insane. And let me remind you all, that people who bought the packs say we got less now then we got before, https://www.reddit.com/r/swtor/comments/4qak8m/psa_new_packs_contain_less_and_cost_more/, so no Eric tell your bosses there to reduce the price 6x, because this is legal money grabbing and it is absurd, you should feel ashamed about it. People do not let yourself being foolish to participate with this, like I said keep your 40 bucks, it is more worth around 10.

Greets,

JE.

Edited June 29, 2016 by -JE-BLAZAR-

I'm sorry but this explanation doesn't improve my opinion on the packs.

 

* Bronze items are already very common and cheap to buy with credits in the GTN soon after a pack is released. Chance Cubes were worth 500,000 credits in the GTN while bronze items quickly drop to a range of 5k to 20k. Swapping a 500k item for a 5k item is not an improvement.

 

* The pack contents needed improving to make them worth the previous cost. You improved the contents. By also increasing the cost, you're right back to the same problem. The contents are not worth the price.

 

* With the reduction of rewards for Heroic quests, it will now be harder to obtain pack items on the GTN. This also contributes to making the situation worse for players.

Hey folks,

 

Yesterday, we made a few changes to how Cartel Packs work with the release of the GEMINI pack. I want to share the changes that were made to the pack.

 

Grand Chance Cubes/Bronze Items

The primary feedback we have heard from players over the past few months is that you would prefer to receive Bronze items rather than Chance Cubes. For that reason, one of the first things you will notice is that we have re-introduced Bronze items back into the Cartel Pack. Although you can get amazing items out of the cubes, we took your feedback and made the following changes:

• We have introduced multiple Bronze items into the GEMINI Pack.
  
• To allow for the addition above, the drop rate of Grand Chance Cubes has been greatly reduced.
  

 

Pack Pricing Changes

You will notice that with the GEMINI Pack, the price has moved back to 300 Cartel Coins. As with any price change we want you to understand why it changed. The short explanation is that we have item slots to the packs, packs contained fewer slots with the launch of KotFE and therefore the pricing was lowered. Now that we have added items and value to the pack in the form of additional slots, we adjusted the price to match. Here is a more detailed breakdown.

 

Pre-KotFE Packs (2 pack items) – 300 Cartel Coins discounted to 250 Cartel Coins for launch

• Pack item
  
• Pack item
  
• Additional items including companion gifts, etc.
  

 

KotFE Launch Packs (1 pack item) – 200 Cartel Coins

• Pack Item
  
• Companion Gift
  

 

GEMINI Pack (2 pack items) – 300 Cartel Coins discounted to 250 Cartel Coins for launch

• Pack Item
  
• Pack Item
  
• Additional items including companion gifts, etc.
  

 

You may also notice that Hypercrates are more expensive than before. We added 6 more packs into each Hypercrate with KotFE and so the price is reflective of that change. The price per pack in a Hypercrate is actually lower than the pre-KotFE numbers. Thank you for your understanding and support! As always, the team will continue to look to your feedback regarding packs and their content.

 

-eric

 

This is a fair explanation Eric. However, such changes should have been reflected in the patch notes, or previously announced. This was a major and important change.

 

I still think the increase in cartel pack cost is something that is honestly unfair despite the fact that additional packs and item slots have been added, in my honest opinion.

 

~ Eudoxia

Oh come on, I know you've seen numerous posts of people moaning about something that was already clearly laid out in a dev post. Which is followed up with dozens of other people agreeing with the person screaming about the issue and devolves into the usual whiny, vocal minority upset about nothing.

I disagree 100%! The forums absolutely reflect communication. The more we have, the happier people are and the more good will they'll get from most players. The less we have, the more toxic it becomes.

Hey folks,

 

-eric

 

Thank you Eric for that explanation! That makes more sense now.

 

I appreciate the update on the decision as I was slightly upset last night when I first learned of the increase. Part of me thinks it would have been wise to post this just prior or immediately after the patch to avoid some of the forum drama but the other part me knows those same people wouldn't have read it (or flat out ignored it). You were doomed either way I guess.

 

^That. A few would have read, but majority wouldn't have.

 

What bunk. Communication buys them TONS of good will. They'd have been defended and applauded had they simply posted this info yesterday. Obviously someone knew this had changed...who the hell didn't tell the guy writing the patch notes?

 

No, Bruticis has a very good point. As I stated very few would have read that. They would have come here complaining anyway then had to have NUMEROUS links showing them where it was stated.

It's fine. Eric did good here.

I dont think you guys needed to introduce back "bronze" items. You should only have reduce the chance cubes drop rate.

Oh come on, I know you've seen numerous posts of people ************ about something that was already clearly laid out in a dev post. Which is followed up with dozens of other people agreeing with the person ************ about the issue and devolves into the usual whiny, vocal minority upset about nothing.

 

I often believe the devs get way more crap thrown there way than is warranted, but thinking "damned if ya do, damned if ya don't, so why bother?" is a pretty big over-simplification.

 

There are hundreds of thousands of players, so yes, strictly as a function of population size, no matter what the devs do, someone will dislike / complain about it. But that doesn't mean there's no difference between an action (or inaction) that ticks off a dozen people and one that ticks off a thousand.

 

Even if they can't ever eliminate all negative feedback / hurt feelings / nerd-rage / etc., (and they can't, it's impossible to please everyone,) there are still things they can do to reduce or even minimize that dissatisfaction. Their record at doing so is... spotty.

I dont think you guys needed to introduce back "bronze" items. You should only have reduce the chance cubes drop rate.

 

Chance cube drop rate was lower than the old "bronze" item drop rate, at least it felt that way to me (small sample size). People have been complaining about the relative drop rates of bronze/silver/gold items since CM packs were A Thing.

Thank you Eric for that explanation! That makes more sense now.

 

 

 

^That. A few would have read, but majority wouldn't have.

 

 

 

No, Bruticis has a very good point. As I stated very few would have read that. They would have come here complaining anyway then had to have NUMEROUS links showing them where it was stated.

It's fine. Eric did good here.

 

No it is not okay, read my post what I said. Do realize that what you get from the packs is fluff and more worth around 10 euros better to make 6 euros, because what you get now is legal robbery, and you all think that is okay? Paying 40 bucks for random items?? No my lad. All hypercrates where fluff the 4.0 ones are even worse and here for you an post people complaining about it and actually testing it https://www.reddit.com/r/swtor/comments/4qak8m/psa_new_packs_contain_less_and_cost_more/.

I often believe the devs get way more crap thrown there way than is warranted, but thinking "damned if ya do, damned if ya don't, so why bother?" is a pretty big over-simplification.

 

There are hundreds of thousands of players, so yes, strictly as a function of population size, no matter what the devs do, someone will dislike / complain about it. But that doesn't mean there's no difference between an action (or inaction) that ticks off a dozen people and one that ticks off a thousand.

 

Even if they can't ever eliminate all negative feedback / hurt feelings / nerd-rage / etc., (and they can't, it's impossible to please everyone,) there are still things they can do to reduce or even minimize that dissatisfaction. Their record at doing so is... spotty.

 

You forget what they do, it is legal money grab. 40 bucks for random items in a crate is not justified, it is better to make it around 10 or even 6.

This is a fair explanation Eric. However, such changes should have been reflected in the patch notes, or previously announced. This was a major and important change.

 

I still think the increase in cartel pack cost is something that is honestly unfair despite the fact that additional packs and item slots have been added, in my honest opinion.

 

~ Eudoxia

 

To be fair, anytime they devote much page-space to anything CM-related, it does engender a good amount of "See! The CM is the only thing they care about!" and "Oh, so you won't say a word about [Pet Peeve X], but you'll talk about the all-important Cartel Market!" blowback.

 

I think this particular time it would probably have been the lesser of two evils to go ahead and announce with the patch notes, but they're always toeing a fine line there it seems.

5 packs = 4 chance cubes.

 

"GREATLY REDUCED"

 

But i don't say anything I dropped 15kk worth a set

Out of curiosity can anyone explain the difference in the Gemini pack and the Revenge pack pricing wise and the amount of items you get because I'm confused right now?

You forget what they do, it is legal money grab. 40 bucks for random items in a crate is not justified, it is better to make it around 10 or even 6.

 

There are people who pay thousands of dollars for a stamp, there are other video games that sell cosmetic skins for $500.00 (looking at you Mechwarrior Online and your "Gold" mechs), people can spend their disposable income how they want.

 

I won't be dropping any actual money on these, because it's usually not my thing, but if someone else wants to spend their own money on virtual items instead of on hockey tickets or Prada handbags, more power to them.

Edited June 29, 2016 by DarthDymond

There are people who pay thousands of dollars for a stamp, there are other video games that sell cosmetic skins for $500.00 (looking at you Mechwarrior Online and your "Gold" mechs), people can spend their disposable income how they want.

 

I won't be dropping any actual money on these, because it's usually not my thing, but if someone else wants to spend their own money on virtual items instead of on hockey tickets or Prada handbags, more power to them.

 

Most people's disposable income goes into their taxes, lol.

 

~ Eudoxia

I, personally, am glad to see bronze items returning. We were getting new items that would have been labeled bronze under the old system before but were now labeled silver, and as such were much higher to unlock in collections. The removal of bronze items meant the removal of 60 CC unlock prices for any future content, and that didn't sit right with me. To make matters worse, all new crystals, which used to be bronze, have since been bumped to silver. Are we going to see the return of bronze crystals again as well?

Out of curiosity can anyone explain the difference in the Gemini pack and the Revenge pack pricing wise and the amount of items you get because I'm confused right now?

 

That bit confused me at first as well, since all of the recent packs have had 2 item slots, but I think he was referring to the "Underworld Alliance" pack that launced with KOTFE (thus "KOTFE launch packs") since that was where they removed the second item slot and companion gifts while lowering the price. It was complained about, then they changed it and added the second item slot and companion gifts back in the next pack but ended up leaving the price the same.