agree on everything, everything is true in both sides, pvp and pve, thing is whats the fix? everything people says in my opinion would make it overpower in pvp and destroy dps in pve, so would need to get to a "real" fix, more than "i want to crit + hdiden strike everytime i want" >.<

 

I don't even know how to reply to you. Your attempts to "fix" the class are minimal and all you say is "this and that" will make Concealment OP. How? Contribute please because I'm at a loss for words. I don't see anything wrong with using Hidden Strike out of stealth, considering our mediocre burst and sustained DPS. Yeah, in PvE when I do dailies I one shot mobs 4-5K shivs/Lacerates w/ a POWER stim activated, but in PvP, don't get me started on the pathetic numbers I see sometimes.

 

I have played since launch, it's great to crit 7.7K (All power/surge) on gearless people, but any other class will hit harder. At least the proposition of using Hidden Strike out of stealth guarantees some burst. As it is now we rely on our CC (Which every class has), on backstab (12s CD), and Explosive Probe (30s CD), our 2 biggest out of stealth hitters are on ridiculous CDs.

 

I'm sorry but I am almost convinced you don't know what you are talking about when it comes to Operatives. If you keep posting, please be constructive and at least have experienced a few months of Concealment PvP and PvE, because your forum sig has many toons on it, whereas mine has one. lol

Like I said, there are a ton of things you can adjust to avoid overpowering Concealment in PvE. Shiv, Lacerate, Corrosive Dart, Acid Blade... toning down one or a few of these abilities for Concealment ops would totally be worth it if we could gain Hidden Strike that way.

 

Alternatively, give the proc that lets you use HS out of stealth a low proc chance or long internal cooldown, but let it be used on targets below 30% with or without the proc.

Like I said, there are a ton of things you can adjust to avoid overpowering Concealment in PvE. Shiv, Lacerate, Corrosive Dart, Acid Blade... toning down one or a few of these abilities for Concealment ops would totally be worth it if we could gain Hidden Strike that way.

 

Alternatively, give the proc that lets you use HS out of stealth a low proc chance or long internal cooldown, but let it be used on targets below 30% with or without the proc.

 

^ Absolutely well put! I don't know how comfy I'd be with toning down our other skills if I am to rely solely on a lucky proc, but overall it's a good idea. And the burst can be pretty good, but we must crit. Even if BW did make HS auto crit, it would still be one of the lower hitting abilities. When I get Heat seeked for 9K, Smashed for 9, Dispatched for 7, Mauled for 9, it makes our 6.5-7K critter look bad. Maybe I am over exaggerating the numbers, but those are what I've seen hit me. I don't see why some are against it. Maybe I am too pro-Op buff that it clouds the truth behind the class, and my denial may be the result of why I think it wouldn't be overpowered. Someone tell me I'm still sane. lol

You'd be surprised how little it would take to bring Concealment PvE DPS back in line, should an auto-crit, non-stealth Hidden Strike be introduced. I'm pretty sure it'd be worth it in PvP, and more fun for the PvEers as well with a more varied rotation.

Deleted Edited July 28, 2013 by JohnElias

This will probably be my last post about this issue.

 

@Class Rep

 

My final points on how to bring back Conceal to the playing field.

 

- 100% Hidden Strike Crit

- Reduce Backstab CD to 6s

- An extra "Probe" that reduces damage taken by 25%. This coupled with shield probe could prove to be a good defensive CD. Us taking less damage, would ultimately make Shield Probe last longer.

- Better energy management. Lower Lacerate energy cost. Acid Blade should be free to apply.

 

I would be happy. Alright, I'm out, good luck guys!

This will probably be my last post about this issue.

 

@Class Rep

 

My final points on how to bring back Conceal to the playing field.

 

- 100% Hidden Strike Crit

- Reduce Backstab CD to 6s

- An extra "Probe" that reduces damage taken by 25%. This coupled with shield probe could prove to be a good defensive CD. Us taking less damage, would ultimately make Shield Probe last longer.

- Better energy management. Lower Lacerate energy cost. Acid Blade should be free to apply.

 

I would be happy. Alright, I'm out, good luck guys!

 

everything you say is true on the pvp side, i guess if u want conceal to be as OP as ssins, which i think is fine, but honestly if people are interested in giving your Class representatives, ideas that Devs. can actually consider doing, like the probe thing, thats a nice idea, not too OP, i dont see why maras have like 5 dmg red. stuff while we get nothing... agree on that, but your pvp fixes would make concealment go to like 4.2k DPS PvE... 100% sure what you said besides the probe is completely impossible (all together), unless they nerf dmg on every single attack to make that possible.

 

not saying people are wrong, because all the ideas are good and smart, thing is, pvp side need to open eyes to PvE side, everything, completely everything you all are saying to buff pvp, will make PvE broken and even more overpower compared to other classes... and its really unlikely they would do that >.<... need to think something a little bit more "mid way" to keep both sides balanced, which is really hard lol

Personally I would just like to know if the devs consider the roll being OP in pvp, and if yes, are they considering giving it a cooldown.

 

Because if they do, I'm going to be annoyed.

The roll is in an annoying position as it is good for the wrong things.

For getting to the huttball first, the roll is great.

However, for closing those last couple of metres to open up on a person, it isn't really that good, because of its high energy cost. If you roll then start a fight immediately afterwards, then you start off with only 75 energy, which completely screws up energy management.

 

@johnelias: if you go to the torparse dummy statistics, the first non slinger/sniper is Invic, which is carlenux's operative.

Edited July 28, 2013 by jack__

Has the topic of stances ever come out as far as IA's are concerned? What I mean is, every class seems to have a stance that benefits a certain spec. Tank? There are stances for it to increase this and increase that. Healing? Support Cylinder or whatever it's called for mercs and mandos. Shi-cho or soresu stances, etc... Something that would give ops some sort of buff considering ia's and smugglers are the only class without stances.

Has the topic of stances ever come out as far as IA's are concerned? What I mean is, every class seems to have a stance that benefits a certain spec. Tank? There are stances for it to increase this and increase that. Healing? Support Cylinder or whatever it's called for mercs and mandos. Shi-cho or soresu stances, etc... Something that would give ops some sort of buff considering ia's and smugglers are the only class without stances.

 

Sage/Sorc lack a stance too. And a stance really isn't needed. There isn't much point in adding something just for the sake of adding it.

@johnelias: if you go to the torparse dummy statistics, the first non slinger/sniper is Invic, which is carlenux's operative.

 

And you can look at his attacks and see they are from using lethality NOT concealment. In all honesty most of these changes should be put directly into the concealment tree, I don't know what lethality could use since it got such a huge buff in 2.0, and quite honestly medics need a definite nerf to their energy management because that tree is just LULZ right now.

Don't forget to mention our worthless 4set PvE/PvP bonus' ;P 5 Energy won't make or break the fight. Look at Sorcs they get on the same scale as us 10 energy (500 Force + 50 Force from bonus/100 Energy + 5 Energy from bonus) Or their dps sets 5% Alacrity! I mean it's not the best but still... better than 5 energy lol.

Sage/Sorc lack a stance too. And a stance really isn't needed. There isn't much point in adding something just for the sake of adding it.

 

Yeah forgot about them, also it wouldn't be adding something just for the sake of adding it. It'd actually help with certain specs. Like they could reduce certain things that makes healing ops so "OP" as 98% of the community calls it and then add a stance that allows for some of it to be gained back but at significantly lower rates. Or for concealment since it has energy issues, either change stim boost back to the way it was before 2.0, because lets be honest, who cares about better alacrity after using it? It's really only there for the free TA. Anyway, add a stance that would boost energy management for concealment and lethality or help out with poison effects or something. Each stance is beneficial to a certain spec so why not let op/scoundrels and sage/sorcs have it? They'd also need to be reduced in some way to actually make it so a stance is actually necessary.

Heal debuff on Acid Blade.