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An in-depth look at: Kreia


Aurbere

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She had taken up the title of Darth Traya, but that might have been, more than anything, her choice to do so and not reflective how she really felt. We all know that she was Dark Side. At least, what she planned to do would be Dark Side. I think she had fallen to the Dark Side, but didn't consider herself Sith. She considered herself above the Sith, in a way, for she was using them to accomplish her ultimate goal
Dark Side definitely, but by definition - not Sith, Jedi or any group of Forces users. After all, dark side and light side you don't have much choice him. But the rest are just sects, groups, philosophies - If you deny being in one you categorically can't be in one. Kreia was set apart, in her hatred of the Force she developed a new philosophy - unfortunately she didn't have many followers... :p

Arren Kae? I don't know. Kae was a Jedi that fought in the Mandalorian Wars with Revan. Her and Kreia have similarities in their backstory. The similarities are definitely there, but, if we are referring to them being the same person, I can't comment or speculate. There is one glaring flaw in this comparison: Kae fought in the War, but Kreia did not (so she says :p). For now though, we can say that they were both Jedi Historians and were both exiled for teaching Revan.
In my head canon, she is Arren Kae. :D Everything slots into place, even that part about the war. After all Master Kavar said 'I thought you'd died in the Mandalorian Wars!" To which she replies "Die? No. Grew stronger. Yes." Heavily suggesting she did participate.

 

Personally I think Kreia is not her real name, but an alias in which she hid from the Jedi and perhaps the Sith - if they knew her true identity as Arren Kae AKA Darth Traya - they would kill her on sight. But hey, thats just my opinion.

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After going back through Kreia's life, I can say that she isn't crazy. She knew what she was doing, but she had a few screws loose. You can't really blame her as she's been betrayed by everyone she meets.

Perhaps her cage has been rattled a little. But that only makes her bitter and twisted. Insanity is a point of view after all, Kreia believed in something opposed to what everyone else in the galaxy believed - so she is defined as a few bolts short of a droid. But back in the old days I'm sure they called the guy who said the Earth was round insane as well!

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Dark Side definitely, but by definition - not Sith, Jedi or any group of Forces users. After all, dark side and light side you don't have much choice him. But the rest are just sects, groups, philosophies - If you deny being in one you categorically can't be in one. Kreia was set apart, in her hatred of the Force she developed a new philosophy - unfortunately she didn't have many followers... :p

In my head canon, she is Arren Kae. :D Everything slots into place, even that part about the war. After all Master Kavar said 'I thought you'd died in the Mandalorian Wars!" To which she replies "Die? No. Grew stronger. Yes." Heavily suggesting she did participate.

 

Personally I think Kreia is not her real name, but an alias in which she hid from the Jedi and perhaps the Sith - if they knew her true identity as Arren Kae AKA Darth Traya - they would kill her on sight. But hey, thats just my opinion.

 

To say that she is Sith would actually be an insult to her, I think. She set herself apart from the normal Jedi vs. Sith battle and created her own ideal. And no offense, but what she planned to do was out there. Really far out there. :p

 

I don't know if they are the same person. I wouldn't be surprised if they were, but right now we have evidence suggesting they are the same, but it is yet to be confirmed. That would suck for Brianna, though.

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Perhaps her cage has been rattled a little. But that only makes her bitter and twisted. Insanity is a point of view after all, Kreia believed in something opposed to what everyone else in the galaxy believed - so she is defined as a few bolts short of a droid. But back in the old days I'm sure they called the guy who said the Earth was round insane as well!

 

That they did. As I said, it would be wrong to call her insane. Her philosophy? yes. But not her. Maybe she's just misunderstood. She is motivated, we can give her that.

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That they did. As I said, it would be wrong to call her insane. Her philosophy? yes. But not her. Maybe she's just misunderstood. She is motivated, we can give her that.

Whaaaatever! Go join the Flat Earth Society already! :D

 

Just you wait, in a few hundred years time - the whole galaxy will be chanting, DEATH TO THE FORCE!

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To say that she is Sith would actually be an insult to her, I think. She set herself apart from the normal Jedi vs. Sith battle and created her own ideal. And no offense, but what she planned to do was out there. Really far out there. :p

 

I don't know if they are the same person. I wouldn't be surprised if they were, but right now we have evidence suggesting they are the same, but it is yet to be confirmed. That would suck for Brianna, though.

 

I imagine she would be insulted if you were to call her a Sith. But the truth is she uses the force for evil - so she is a Sith (to an extent) weather or not she wants to believe it. I'll give my definition of a Sith: uses the force selfishly and harmfully. To me, being a Sith has more to do with your morales more so then anything else. And your morales effect your fighting style.

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Whaaaatever! Go join the Flat Earth Society already! :D

 

Just you wait, in a few hundred years time - the whole galaxy will be chanting, DEATH TO THE FORCE!

 

Remember that the Force is like the life essence of the galaxy. It encompasses all living things (except the Vong I guess). So killing the Force isn't the best idea a person could have.

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Remember that the Force is like the life essence of the galaxy. It encompasses all living things (except the Vong I guess). So killing the Force isn't the best idea a person could have.

*twitches nervously* shutup, just just shutup! ;)

 

I imagine she would be insulted if you were to call her a Sith. But the truth is she uses the force for evil - so she is a Sith (to an extent) weather or not she wants to believe it. I'll give my definition of a Sith: uses the force selfishly and harmfully. To me, being a Sith has more to do with your morales more so then anything else. And your morales effect your fighting style.

Not quite, I'd say that's the definition of a dark side user. The definition of a Sith is someone who follows the Sith code. Kreia does not.

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I imagine she would be insulted if you were to call her a Sith. But the truth is she uses the force for evil - so she is a Sith (to an extent) weather or not she wants to believe it. I'll give my definition of a Sith: uses the force selfishly and harmfully. To me, being a Sith has more to do with your morales more so then anything else. And your morales effect your fighting style.

 

I don't know if we can call her Sith. She did everything she could to set herself apart from the Jedi and Sith after they both betrayed her. While one could classify her as Sith, she wasn't a true Sith. Not by her endgame. She was a person that used the Dark Side of the Force. This doesn't classify her as Sith, as there are many Dark Side Force cults that aren't Sith. She kind of created her own philosophy that would destroy the galaxy. We can't classify her as Sith. She was Sith, but by the time of KOTOR II, she was a Dark Side Force user that tricked the Sith into following her.

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Remember that the Force is like the life essence of the galaxy. It encompasses all living things (except the Vong I guess). So killing the Force isn't the best idea a person could have.

 

Agreed. It is an essiantial part of life in that universe. In fact, that makes an interesting point for another conversation:

 

The Emperor's plot in SWTOR is to destroy all life - would that not indirectly lead to the death of the force?

 

In fact, it is often the goal of the Sith to slaughter others. If this is so, and the force has a will, and the force is dependant on life, then wouldn't the force often aid the Jedi? I THINK I'M ON TO SOMETHING HERE PEOPLE!!

This would explain why the good guys always win in the end! Obviously this is just a theory, but I'm uber-excited about this!

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*twitches nervously* shutup, just just shutup! ;)

 

 

 

He's losing it! Do something! :D

 

I will say that in a sick twisted way, one could view her as right. Not the "destroy the Force" thing, but her reason for it. The Force seeks balance and uses the Jedi to maintain this balance. The Insidious Force theory believes that the Force is evil and cares little for those it uses to maintain its "precious balance".

 

This theory could be looked at as true, in a twisted sense, but there are several other theories that are closer to the truth.

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Agreed. It is an essiantial part of life in that universe. In fact, that makes an interesting point for another conversation:

 

The Emperor's plot in SWTOR is to destroy all life - would that not indirectly lead to the death of the force?

 

In fact, it is often the goal of the Sith to slaughter others. If this is so, and the force has a will, and the force is dependant on life, then wouldn't the force often aid the Jedi? I THINK I'M ON TO SOMETHING HERE PEOPLE!!

This would explain why the good guys always win in the end! Obviously this is just a theory, but I'm uber-excited about this!

I believe (ironically like Kreia, a coincidence of course) that the Force is sentient, perhaps left behind by the Celestials. So yes, the Force fights to restore balance. I honestly think Kreia was onto something here, if the Force is sentient, its probably indifferent - the only thing it cares about is bringing balance to the Force and will do so despite the gross loss of life. What balance in the Force is I can't say, perhaps its the elimination of the Dark side, perhaps its a balance between the two.

 

But the Force would not like to be destroyed, so yes - the Force may intervene and aid the Jedi. You might say thats far fetched, but anyone who has read the Plagueis novel would know that the Chosen One was created by the Force in retaliation to a ritual performed by Plagueis and Sidious which shifted the balance of the Force to the dark side.

 

Just had another thought which belongs here: the Entity? Is she Kreia?

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Agreed. It is an essiantial part of life in that universe. In fact, that makes an interesting point for another conversation:

 

The Emperor's plot in SWTOR is to destroy all life - would that not indirectly lead to the death of the force?

 

In fact, it is often the goal of the Sith to slaughter others. If this is so, and the force has a will, and the force is dependant on life, then wouldn't the force often aid the Jedi? I THINK I'M ON TO SOMETHING HERE PEOPLE!!

This would explain why the good guys always win in the end! Obviously this is just a theory, but I'm uber-excited about this!

 

You are on to something. I would like to visit the rise and fall of the Galactic Empire to answer this.

 

Darth Sidious had shifted the balance of the Force to the Dark Side, which severely limited the Jedi Order's ability to use the Force. He had created a plan that would destroy the Jedi. It was almost fool-proof. The only time his plan was truly in danger was when Mace Windu had bested him. He had to rely on Anakin in order to complete his plan. The Will of the Force would surely attempt to intervene here, but it was too late. Mace Windu was dead and the Jedi Order was defeated. Even Yoda could not defeat Sidious. It was by the Will of the Force that Yoda escape and Obi-Wan defeat Anakin.

 

This leads to the next point. When Luke was taken in training by Obi-Wan, the Will of the Force was in play. The Force set the pieces up perfectly. Luke and Han saving Leia and going to Yavin. Then the Force guided Luke in destroying the Death Star. The Force played a large role in the Galactic Civil War. The Empire had everything on their side, except for the Force. The Ultimate Power in the universe was working against the Emperor in an effort to attain balance. This lead up to Sidious being cast down by the redeemed Vader.

 

The Force works to maintain balance. That would be an in-universe explanation for the good guys winning in the end. Out-of-universe: good guys always win. :p

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I'm afraid I don't know what this "Entity" is. Could someone enlighten me?

Sith Warrior minor spoilers:

 

Darth Baras's rise to power has been facilitated by his enslavement of a Sith spirit known only as the Entity. Baras dominated this centuries-dead Sith into using her powers of precognition and farseeing to aid his ascendancy onto the Dark Council while plotting the destruction of all enemies in his path.

 

The Entity chafes at her enslavement, desperately seeking freedom from this ignoble fate. Centuries ago, she nearly brought the galaxy to its knees and all but eradicated the Jedi Order; to be used as a mere political tool by Darth Baras is an insult to these past deeds.

 

Heres a video of her: go from 1:45 to about 2:50 to get the gist. More major spoilers however.

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Sith Warrior minor spoilers:

 

Darth Baras's rise to power has been facilitated by his enslavement of a Sith spirit known only as the Entity. Baras dominated this centuries-dead Sith into using her powers of precognition and farseeing to aid his ascendancy onto the Dark Council while plotting the destruction of all enemies in his path.

 

The Entity chafes at her enslavement, desperately seeking freedom from this ignoble fate. Centuries ago, she nearly brought the galaxy to its knees and all but eradicated the Jedi Order; to be used as a mere political tool by Darth Baras is an insult to these past deeds.

 

Heres a video of her: go from 1:45 to about 2:50 to get the gist. More major spoilers however.

 

 

Yup, sounds like Kreia. I never liked Kreia's personality (my Exile, while lightside, didn't appreciate being talked down to) but I feel she was an amazing character and had seriously some of the beset dialogues.

 

Off-topic: It's a shame that you can't get both the Deciple and Handmaiden at the same time without mods/ glitches. I've never talked to the Deciple because I haven't been able to sit through a Fem playthrough.

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Yup, sounds like Kreia. I never liked Kreia's personality (my Exile, while lightside, didn't appreciate being talked down to) but I feel she was an amazing character and had seriously some of the beset dialogues.

 

Off-topic: It's a shame that you can't get both the Deciple and Handmaiden at the same time without mods/ glitches. I've never talked to the Deciple because I haven't been able to sit through a Fem playthrough.

The Disciple isn't that great, your not missing out. lol. He does say some interesting stuff about Arren Kae however which fits in with Kreia.

 

Speaking of which, you guys might want to give this a watch -

- ties in all the Arren Kae-Kreia references nicely.
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Sith Warrior minor spoilers:

 

Darth Baras's rise to power has been facilitated by his enslavement of a Sith spirit known only as the Entity. Baras dominated this centuries-dead Sith into using her powers of precognition and farseeing to aid his ascendancy onto the Dark Council while plotting the destruction of all enemies in his path.

 

The Entity chafes at her enslavement, desperately seeking freedom from this ignoble fate. Centuries ago, she nearly brought the galaxy to its knees and all but eradicated the Jedi Order; to be used as a mere political tool by Darth Baras is an insult to these past deeds.

 

Heres a video of her: go from 1:45 to about 2:50 to get the gist. More major spoilers however.

 

Ah - that certainly could ber her. Interesting.

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Ah - that certainly could ber her. Interesting.

Few problems however:

 

1. It doesn't really look like her. But hey, Bastila doesn't look like Bastila and BioWare seem to enjoy copping out on characters by giving them pre-generated looks. She's old, grey hair, neck thing sort of - in their eyes it will do. (yes I am bashing you BioWare)

 

2. According to Vowrawan "she is as old as the Force. She is the dark side itself" - he could be exaggerating here but neither of these statements are true.

 

3. Apparently she was waiting for 'her love the Emperor' - when this romance happened I cannot say. :p

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Arren Kae? I don't know. Kae was a Jedi that fought in the Mandalorian Wars with Revan. Her and Kreia have similarities in their backstory. The similarities are definitely there, but, if we are referring to them being the same person, I can't comment or speculate. There is one glaring flaw in this comparison: Kae fought in the War, but Kreia did not (so she says :p). For now though, we can say that they were both Jedi Historians and were both exiled for teaching Revan.

 

Kreia did fight in the Mandalorian Wars. She did state to the Exile (If you look at the restored content mod, though we don't know if those lines were voided on purpose) that she was the one who made her exiled. I think this may have been cut on purpose though, since it ended up to be Atris being the main focus of removing her from the order. Even though this could have been the case that she was telling the truth there, I think it is unlikely (plus she could have been talking of the figure 'Darth Traya' a.k.a. Atris or Kreia)

 

Backups to why she fought in the Mandalorians Wars:

1. As others have said the Jedi Masters said she died on Malachor and she acknowledges she was there.

2. She was one of the people who rediscovered the Malachor Academy (though probably after Revan/Malak fell)

 

Also, she never said that she didn't fight with Revan in the Mandalorian Wars. I think the OP was thinking of the endgame where she says she didn't follow him. She meant that she didn't follow him to the Unknown Regions.

 

 

As a side note, I personally believe she is Arren Kae. I think it makes plenty of sense in terms of the hints that were spread out throughout the game, much like other hints that could be related to events to come.

Edited by Reedek
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2. According to Vowrawan "she is as old as the Force. She is the dark side itself" - he could be exaggerating here but neither of these statements are true.

 

 

I'd say that he is exaggerating. Either that or the Entity told him that. Perhaps it is Abeloth? Probably not lol.

 

We could see the return of Darth Traya. Could be interesting.

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