This morning, I got bored playing Norse and I specced to tibetan candle then pyro and played some pvp. I just hate the fact that I can't enjoy both trees at the same time so I messed around different combinations and came up to this hybrid. Don't get me wrong, Norse is really good and it was my preferred spec for pvp, I just like the 1vs1 feature of pyro for the huge burst of RS. I just want to know if giving up immolate and prototype weapon systems is worth it if I go up the pyro tree and get IM and PPA. I thought of changing the cylinders of trees and out of the three specs that I've theorycrafted, I think this one has potential for pvp. I gave it a try and it seems I can do better in 1v1 due to the availability of PPA procs and when people gathers in front of me, I unleash my PFT. I only use IM when I'm too far and open up my RS or when I'm in 0 heat and I saw someone who's not burning. In short, it's like having the utility and AoE of AP with a downgraded RS with PPA. The focus of this build is pvp especially 1vs1 fights secondary to the burst of pyro tree and mobility, utility and slight mitigation of AP tree.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc/#301ZMsrrobfzZfhrbzh.2

 

*updated - 2 points were moved to serrated blades from prototype electro surge

 

The build name was based on Prototype PA + Prototype FT which are the key skills of this spec.

 

Pros:

• Re-usable RS every 6 secs from PPA procs
  
• Good utility from low CDs
  
• Good mobility with HO - ball carrying potential in huttball, prevents being rooted
  
• PFT - uninterruptable and 50% more damage with 70% slow on multiple targets
  
• IM - 30m skill that does decent DoT and opens up RS
  

 

Cons:

• No talented 9% aim increase from ST tree
  
• No talented 6% increase in RS damage from ST tree
  
• No increase in critical strike damage of abilities via Prototype Weapon Systems & Firebug
  
• Heat management is hard in long fights
  

 

Comments and suggestions are welcome.

Edited August 1, 2012 by dijskykiller

Um...wow. Kinda weird that we posted more or less the same exact build at almost the same time.

 

The major difference is charged gauntlets. My build relies on a high Railshot crit rate to make up for the mediocre damage. My combat logs confirm that my rail shot crit chance increased by 30-40% and the average damage of the hybrid's rail shot was 300-400 less. This is more than acceptable in my book seeing how PFT did something like 5500 damage per cast.

 

Sorry to keep editing...

 

Anyways, as far as heat is concerned, I found that it is usually pretty doable since the heat management system is a slightly better version of the standard Pyro (chance for free RP). I guess if you wanted to front load all of your damage and skip PPA fishing at the beginning of the fight, that is certainly possible (using Vent Heat/Override to get back down to manageable levels) then continuing on with a standard "rotation".

Edited July 9, 2012 by Rischardo

My logic for not getting the auto-crit is the wasted points that would go to RB's increase damage. Actually, RB is a filler talent in my spec since i think it's a dps loss to include it in the rotation. In addition, i don't think downgrading the PPA proc is worth for the 25% chance of RS crit. I know it will be eventually triggered by RB, but as i say putting RB in the rotation is a dps loss. I prefer the ppa procs since the spec is using CGC. I am also sitting on 32% crit which i think is enough to make it crit most of the time.

Agooz posted something like this oh 3 months ago now:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=406555

 

However, with changes to PFT, I would probably go more towards the PFT then the guaranteed RS Crit. Esp if running 4pc Elim

Edited July 9, 2012 by dardack

My logic for not getting the auto-crit is the wasted points that would go to RB's increase damage. Actually, RB is a filler talent in my spec since i think it's a dps loss to include it in the rotation. In addition, i don't think downgrading the PPA proc is worth for the 25% chance of RS crit. I know it will be eventually triggered by RB, but as i say putting RB in the rotation is a dps loss. I prefer the ppa procs since the spec is using CGC. I am also sitting on 32% crit which i think is enough to make it crit most of the time.

 

Actually 3 months ago when Agooz did a hybrid like this, he showed doing RB every 6 sec contributed 12%. Now me I prolly would only do it every 15 sec. However I agree not to take a point out of PPA. You iether have to take it out of PFT or w/e. Personally just use Elim set for 15% to RS, so you should be 45%+ with that. I know agooz had the Guranteed crit, but that was before changes to PFT (slow/can't be interupted).

 

My rotation would be something like or priority since RS proc's make it more priority:

 

RS Whenever off CD

RP on every CD unless an RS proc just occured (since RP is your best % wise to proc, and it's 6 seconds, 1.5 for the ability that proc'd it, 1.5 for RS, have to wait 2 abilities, so use filler or FB if under 50 heat)

FB when under 50 heat

RB every 15 seconds

PFT when you have a full 5 stacks and under 50 heat

Filler ED (when under 50 heat)

Filler /Rapid anytime

 

That's me, I think i'm going to try this. I haven't since the c hanges to PFT.

The 12% is talented right? RB is more situational for me and FB is always a better skill in close range to apply dot. I will give it a try putting RB and doing your suggestion of every 15 secs. Also, i'm using combat tech instead of elim since i felt that its set bonuses are better for teamplay. I have used this spec in RWZ and it's overall dps is the same with norse but with better potential in 1vs1 fights.

 

It was also cool when people think im pyro because of IM and RS then suddenly unleashing PFT, they just let it go and get fried.

The 12% is talented right? RB is more situational for me and FB is always a better skill in close range to apply dot. I will give it a try putting RB and doing your suggestion of every 15 secs. Also, i'm using combat tech instead of elim since i felt that its set bonuses are better for teamplay. I have used this spec in RWZ and it's overall dps is the same with norse but with better potential in 1vs1 fights.

 

It was also cool when people think im pyro because of IM and RS then suddenly unleashing PFT, they just let it go and get fried.

 

I feel you. Um I don't get the guaranteed crit from guantlets, so that's why I say Elim still. Since RS is still your 1st or second most damage. So more crits from that = better. Combat tech is 15sec CD off get out of stun (not a game breaker to me), .5 sec to carb (again not game breaking) and 15% crit to RP that is only once every 9seconds that doesn't hit as hard as RS and RS is potentially every 6 seconds.

 

I agree FB for dot for RS. And yes it's full 15% dam to bleed, but you ahve to put 1 point in that, so you either go with 10 second off dart stun or 10% more to bleed damage. I don't feel the 10 seconds is that much in most matches. Anyways, to each their own, but that bleed over time really adds up, esp if there is an Op I can hit him with it and then focus on someone else for 15 seconds without worrying about is he stealth somewhere, since it will bring him out.

Well i think the bonus sets will be based on preference. For me carbonite is useful as well as the stun breaker. It can make or break a cap and helps teammates kill fast by delaying healers. It's not damage oriented but it works for me more than added crit % to RS. Whether it's 45% or 33% crit for RS it may hit, crit or miss, which is purely based on chance. I prefer the flat bonus of combat tech and the addition of RP bonus adds up which is good. If only elim has a 2-set bonus beneficial for PTs, it will clearly be the better of the two for me.

 

On the other hand, I'm gonna take your recommendation of buffing RB instead of the dart. I think it will be good to use right after a RS proc when the bleed is down.

Edited July 9, 2012 by dijskykiller

First, I gotta say that I love this hybrid spec for PvP; having access to both PFT and PPA is awesome! Since your thread appears to be more popular than mine (probably because of the awesome name), we'll keep all discussion here .

 

Now to the nitpicky things of a talent point here and there. In my opinion, while this build plays alot like pyro, we also have to accept that railshot just isn't as strong in this spec when compared to Pyro. Yes, it still does a considerable amount of damage, but consider how "gimped" this build's railshot is:

 

No Rail Loaders (-6% damage)

No Rain of Fire (-9% damage)

No Firebug (-30% crit damage)

 

Total: -15% damage, -30% crit damage

 

I don't know about you, but my average non-crit rail shots hit the ops test dummy for something like 1800-1900ish, maybe a tad higher. Good, but not great.

 

So this is my philosophy on why taking 1 point out of PPA in exchange for Charged Gauntlets is preferable (given that you switch the points to a buffed RB):

 

1. Non-crit railshot is mediocre at best. As such, this build needs to maximize RS crits. Even at a 50% crit chance (35% base + eliminators 4 pc bonus), this is still a coin flip. On the Ops test dummy, using RB semi-often (every 20 sec I'd say) increased my RS crit to 70-80%.

 

2. RB when directly compared to FB is a DPS loss only if you compare the two directly. "On average" for me (crits and non-crits combined), RB does about 625 less than FB for the intial hit and RB's dot does about 300 less damage (and takes twice as long to do too). This comparison doesn't account for two things, however. First, RB can proc the autocrit Railshot. The additional damage from critting RS more often should be factored in favor for RB. Second, spamming flameburst overwrites the current CGC dot. As far as dots are concerned, you are better off having two dots ticking simultaneously.

 

3. During my tests, I often found that the autocrit RS would often proc right after I fired a RS. So in a weird way, taking one point out of PPA almost forces you to wait for an autocrit RS. Less railshots over all, but more likely that the ones you do have will crit.

 

4. Ideally, it would be best to have both charged gauntlets and 3/3 PPA, but unfortunately you can't do that without giving up some other goodies. In order to do this, you'd have to either have 1/2 PFT or give up H/O. 2/2 PFT and H/O are both too good.

 

5. While less PPA procs also means less venting heat, keep a couple things in mind. First, PvP is a freakin stunfest. I'll admit right now, I doubt I could maintain a decent rotation in PvE with 2/3 PPA. However, Gyroscopic Alignment Jets vents heat while we are CCed and thus somewhat balances the added heat issue. Second, PvP fights generally don't last 5-6 min like a PvE encounter. Most fights are typically over in a matter of seconds, a minute tops: either you're dead or they are. The downtime in between allows you to vent heat because, well, you're just running to the next objective.

 

Anyways, this is the build that I ultimately decided on and have been playing with. I can't decide if I want to keep the Electrodart talent or take -2% damage:

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301rsMrobfkZfhrbzb.2

 

Since I already had 4 piece Combat tech (my previous PvP spec was Ironfist) and didn't feel like grinding out eliminators (especially since I take Charged Gauntlets in my build), I ripped out all my BM mods and threw it into an old PvE Columi Combat tech set I had lying around. The 2 pc bonus is nice, but not noticeable, but the 4 pc 8% damage to RS helps make up what we lack in talents.

 

Sorry for the long post...was trying to respond to everyone!

I'm gonna have to do PvP dummy tests to see if CG or 3/3 PPA is better. It'll be a bit if someone else wants to do this let me know. I'd rather have someone with the 15% crit to RS test this.

Ill just uhh....leave this here.

I'm gonna have to do PvP dummy tests to see if CG or 3/3 PPA is better. It'll be a bit if someone else wants to do this let me know. I'd rather have someone with the 15% crit to RS test this.

 

welp, I decided that ya'll were right. After checking my logs after an hour and a half of PvPing, I saw that my RS crit chance was only about 58%. CG is a nice idea in theory and important if you're going to use this build in PvE. You can simply move the point from H/O though to CG if you want to PvE with this spec. For PvP, though, it's simply too unreliable. Sometimes you forget to put it on. Sometimes your target dies before it gets the full bleed off etc. etc.

 

It's too bad I didn't check my bank before augmenting my gear and moving my mods. I completely forgot that I had a 4 pc Champion eliminators that I could use. Oh well, I guess 4 pc PvE combat tech is still pretty good...and it looks a lot better.

These builds have been floating around since pre 1.1 patch when exphyrl came out with it. Agooz than took it and ran with it using Maverick before dropping it before 1.3. Grimoir took it over pre 1.3 and renamed it Terminal Velocity. All-in-all it's been done, and it's a decent spec that doesn't have as strong a burst as 31pt's, but gains a bit more utility. The sad part is in every test we ran for Agooz it's the second highest damage spec for the powertech. It caused me to open a complaint thread to the forum moderates about the overamped Combustible Gas Cylinder.

These builds have been floating around since pre 1.1 patch when exphyrl came out with it. Agooz than took it and ran with it using Maverick before dropping it before 1.3. Grimoir took it over pre 1.3 and renamed it Terminal Velocity. All-in-all it's been done, and it's a decent spec that doesn't have as strong a burst as 31pt's, but gains a bit more utility. The sad part is in every test we ran for Agooz it's the second highest damage spec for the powertech. It caused me to open a complaint thread to the forum moderates about the overamped Combustible Gas Cylinder.

 

The idea may have been around for awhile, but what a difference two points can make. Terminal Velocity looks like it still plays pretty much like pure pyro. Extreme Prototype, on the other hand, is more similar to AP (my original opinion was that it was more like Pyro, but I have since changed my mind). Extreme Prototype should, when possible, follow the "12 second Rule". The difference is that our filler abilities working up to those 5 stacks of PFT are Railshots instead of rapid shots/immolate.

 

As I grow more comfortable with how best to utilize PFT, I find that it is making up more and more of my damage. Outside of Huttball, where my grapple is usually reserved for some sort of defensive play, I find myself using grapple as a way to force even skilled players to stack up for PFT.

 

The AOE potential of Extreme Prototype is what distinguishes it from Terminal Velocity. The former trades a little bit of single target burst (less railshot crits) for more controlled bursts/AOE damage from PFT.

 

That said, while I think the name Extreme Prototype is fitting and kinda cool, I think we should continue the PT tradition of weird/outlandish names for the non-traditional specs (Carolina Parakeet/Maverick/NORSE). My suggestion is "The Bushwhacker".

 

A little bit of the "official" history of Bushwhacking: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushwhacker

 

Any Mechwarrior fans might remember the Bushwhacker battle mech as being the jack of all trades, master of none. This build reflects that ideology:

-Good mobility, but not as mobile as a shield tech's jet charge.

-Good AOE, but Pure AP has a more efficient and 14% stronger PFT.

-Good Single Target Burst, but not as bursty as a Pure Pyro.

 

The name also lends itself well to how many players react to this build.

Bushwhacked: The realization that your PT isn't a pure pyro. Typically accompanied by hopeless fidgeting while PFT roasts them alive.

You missed the other two threads here they are

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=377751 - Exphyrl was the first to explore the hybrid AP/Pyro. BTW, he is now on my server the Bastion.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=406555 - Agooz made some changes

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=465981 - Grimoir essentially redid it for vanguards

 

 

They are all essentially the same with some taking PFT and some not taking it. The difference between using PFT and not using PFT is not enough for me to go ooo this is a completely different spec. If you read the above the threads. You will see most left PFT off for mobility and the heat cost.

You missed the other two threads here they are

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=377751 - Exphyrl was the first to explore the hybrid AP/Pyro. BTW, he is now on my server the Bastion.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=406555 - Agooz made some changes

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=465981 - Grimoir essentially redid it for vanguards

 

 

Just ran across this. There isn't alot of mystery when you are coming up with a build and seperate people will often come up with similar builds independently because certain choices synergize nicely with each other. I was running this build (except I took the chance for a railshot crit over the AoE since the AoE was not as buff way back in the old days and railshot was not nerfed) in the earliest days of the game.

 

I was a Vanguard so I never posted it here, but I was the first to post this type of build and make movies for it. Very few people gave this build a shot since they underestimated the value of snare, knockback, pull, and root immunity IMO.

 

I wanted to take a moment to revisit the AP/Pyro Build. While the build has been mentioned or brought up well in to the Beta months ago, it seems to be rarely every talked about about here nowadays other than the bit Oozo mentions in his videos. (Which if you read this feel free to input your suggestion since you obviously have been using these builds longer)

 

I'm the Oozo that Eph is mentioning there in his post about this build, but I long ago stopped playing Vanguard.

 

edit: My first L50 discussion (although I was playing it sub50) and movie for this build was posted on Jan. 8th. Don't think anyone is going to beat that.

Edited July 10, 2012 by Raggok

You missed the other two threads here they are

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=377751 - Exphyrl was the first to explore the hybrid AP/Pyro. BTW, he is now on my server the Bastion.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=406555 - Agooz made some changes

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=465981 - Grimoir essentially redid it for vanguards

 

 

They are all essentially the same with some taking PFT and some not taking it. The difference between using PFT and not using PFT is not enough for me to go ooo this is a completely different spec. If you read the above the threads. You will see most left PFT off for mobility and the heat cost.

 

I had tried to point out that at least Agooz had done this awhile ago. TheOpf you mentioned that Agooz's was second to I assume Pyro, can you post the numbers so I can see how close Agooz's is to pure Pyro, only cause I'm lazy right now.

 

My thing is Agooz didn't take PFT in his notes in that thread. He took the GC and 1 point in ST tree. To me GC isn't worth it for this build, get the 15% crit from 4pc, and get PFT. I was unloading with PFT in Void last night. Was amazing. I kinda am in love with this build (just not sure some of the people i run ranked with will let me run in it for ranked, they kinda crazy when it comes to ranked, and Pyro is the proven heavy hitter and that's what I'm brought for) it gives me the RS of pyro and the PFT/HO of AP that I fell in love with when all we had was HB as a WZ (well not PFT but HO).

 

Anyways, even tho I MAY be switching my main to pub side (OMG can you say TY for BoL gear so I can mail my alt all WH gear while not even being able to spend ranked comms (not even 35 valor yet)) I'll still be posting here since VG/PT basically the same. I know in my pub guild I keep saying BH terms and have to mouse over the ability so they know *** i'm talking about.

Edited July 11, 2012 by dardack

I had tried to point out that at least Agooz had done this awhile ago. TheOpf you mentioned that Agooz's was second to I assume Pyro, can you post the numbers so I can see how close Agooz's is to pure Pyro, only cause I'm lazy right now.

 

My thing is Agooz didn't take PFT in his notes in that thread. He took the GC and 1 point in ST tree. To me GC isn't worth it for this build, get the 15% crit from 4pc, and get PFT. I was unloading with PFT in Void last night. Was amazing. I kinda am in love with this build (just not sure some of the people i run ranked with will let me run in it for ranked, they kinda crazy when it comes to ranked, and Pyro is the proven heavy hitter and that's what I'm brought for) it gives me the RS of pyro and the PFT/HO of AP that I fell in love with when all we had was HB as a WZ (well not PFT but HO).

 

Anyways, even tho I MAY be switching my main to pub side (OMG can you say TY for BoL gear so I can mail my alt all WH gear while not even being able to spend ranked comms (not even 35 valor yet)) I'll still be posting here since VG/PT basically the same. I know in my pub guild I keep saying BH terms and have to mouse over the ability so they know *** i'm talking about.

 

It's in the AP guide: Here was my breakdown

 

I was simply stating where all the PT dps was at currently using your stats as a basis and maximum rotation, uptime, and heat management.

 

Pyro - depending on spec - 1650-1708 dps

Tibetan Candle - 1630-1670

Max AP - 1616-1646

Maverick - 1573

Norse with RB - 1550

Norse without RB - 1515.

 

So they are all well within 10 percent of each other. I don't see a reason why you couldn't use every single one of the builds and be competitive in terms of pve dps. Remember these dps numbers are spreadsheet calculations, and don't take into account movement times, stuns, avoiding damage spots and other things that can cause your dps to drop.

Edited July 11, 2012 by TheOpf

I did notice that the other builds did not pick ppa, pft and ho which are the key talents of this build. They may have few differences in point allocation, but the availability of those 3 talents is what makes it different. On the other hand, I have been using this build in rated wzs and it's performing well objective-wise and dps-wise. Soloing is not a problem that makes ambushing node/door easy. I like it more than pyro because of the utility it has for the team. Pft's snare adds up to that utility with good aoe damage that helps cover up 31 point pyro's burst. Edited July 11, 2012 by dijskykiller

I did notice that the other builds did not pick ppa, pft and ho which are the key talents of this build. They may have few differences in point allocation, but the availability of those 3 talents is what makes it different. On the other hand, I have been using this build in rated wzs and it's performing well objective-wise and dps-wise. Soloing is not a problem that makes ambushing node/door easy. I like it more than pyro because of the utility it has for the team. Pft's snare adds up to that utility with good aoe damage that helps cover up 31 point pyro's burst.

 

Torhead is broken, and so the links in the posts are broken, but by reading you can see that the builds were the same.

 

If you read the posts most of these were pre 1.2, and even post 1.2 it was noted that the energy cost of PFT and the length of time used might actually cost a dps loss, but that it's entirely possible to run it with a deep PFT. Both Exphyrl and Agooz stated picking up PFT is optional. They just choose to ignore it and grab CGC and HTL with 1 free point.

Edited July 11, 2012 by TheOpf

I don't know but in my experience playing ap spec I only use pft when multiple enemies are around which is actually a dps gain. My norse spec is better in overall dps than most pyros in my server because of the pft setup and timing. If we are talking about single target it will be pyro hands down. But in pvp aoe is useful everytime. The only time it's gonna be a dps loss is when u get stunned, you settle for it to just hit 1 enemy or its activation was too slow. So RS-PPA procs for single focus then you have PFT when you see a whole pack. 25% from CG is a waiting game and you can still crit often without it that makes the 1 point more useful elsewhere. Edited July 11, 2012 by dijskykiller

I don't know but in my experience playing ap spec I only use pft when multiple enemies are around which is actually a dps gain. My norse spec is better in overall dps than most pyros in my server because of the pft setup and timing. If we are talking about single target it will be pyro hands down. But in pvp aoe is useful everytime. The only time it's gonna be a dps loss is when u get stunned, you settle for it to just hit 1 enemy or its activation was too slow. So RS-PPA procs for single focus then you have PFT when you see a whole pack. 25% from CG is a waiting game and you can still crit often without it that makes the 1 point more useful elsewhere.

 

That's a pretty good assessment of the differences. I play Norse knowing I will do less damage, simply for the damage reduction talents. You are correct that PFT is a huge dps improvement when used on groups. However unless you are overriding an Immolate PFT is still better than FB or RP.

It's in the AP guide: Here was my breakdown

 

I was simply stating where all the PT dps was at currently using your stats as a basis and maximum rotation, uptime, and heat management.

 

Pyro - depending on spec - 1650-1708 dps

Tibetan Candle - 1630-1670

Max AP - 1616-1646

Maverick - 1573

Norse with RB - 1550

Norse without RB - 1515.

 

So they are all well within 10 percent of each other. I don't see a reason why you couldn't use every single one of the builds and be competitive in terms of pve dps. Remember these dps numbers are spreadsheet calculations, and don't take into account movement times, stuns, avoiding damage spots and other things that can cause your dps to drop.

 

I think we're talking a little bit past each other. I'd say that the Extreme Prototype (I will personally call it the Bushwhacker!) build is PvP only, seeing how H/O is not nearly as useful in a PvE environment. To use this build in a PvE environment, it would probably be best to take the point out of H/O and put it into charged gauntlets, esp since it's so much easier to keep RB up on your target. Once you do that, there's only a two talent point difference and I agree that the spec doesn't really do anything new in PvE that hasn't been done before.

 

For PvP, I'd say that the simple act of changing 3 pts is a game changer. Having access to both strong AOE and reasonably strong single target burst is useful in so many different situations. This spec has caused me to rethink PvP in a lot of ways and has led me to enjoy PvPing again.

I'd say that the Extreme Prototype (I will personally call it the Bushwhacker!) build is PvP only, seeing how H/O is not nearly as useful in a PvE environment.

 

That does not sound good to me. Bushwhacker, really?

I think we're talking a little bit past each other. I'd say that the Extreme Prototype (I will personally call it the Bushwhacker!) build is PvP only, seeing how H/O is not nearly as useful in a PvE environment. To use this build in a PvE environment, it would probably be best to take the point out of H/O and put it into charged gauntlets, esp since it's so much easier to keep RB up on your target. Once you do that, there's only a two talent point difference and I agree that the spec doesn't really do anything new in PvE that hasn't been done before.

 

For PvP, I'd say that the simple act of changing 3 pts is a game changer. Having access to both strong AOE and reasonably strong single target burst is useful in so many different situations. This spec has caused me to rethink PvP in a lot of ways and has led me to enjoy PvPing again.

 

My post was in reference to Dardack asking about the breakdown of spreadsheet dps. Neither the Maverick (Bushwacker, Terminal Velocity) or Norse are designed for PVE purposes. I did not mean to include pve into the conversation I was replying to a question about dps output.

 

And HO has it's places in pve as well. I use it often enough to break cc's and ignore knockbacks. I wonder if it would work on the boss fights in EV. I know it works on the pvp one.

 

Finally, I am not trying to rain on your parade, but all three posts and the original designer of the build all used HO (it is the key reason for the trip into Tactics). The links are broken. Read the threads by Agooz and Exphyrl, they both stated that HO is the key and CTG this left them with 2 points either for PFT (which they chose not to take) or 1 point in ctc. The links to the builds in the old threads are broken because Torhead did some funky changing of the trees and it has broken every link to show incomplete builds. This is the reason I stated, you cannot rename a build that's already been named.

 

The only difference between your build and the others is PFT vs CGC and 1 point in the improved Railshot damage. PFT while nice is not gamebreaking enough to completely rename a build that has a 2 point difference. In Exphyrl's, he actually took 1 point in pft. and so did Agooz once 1.2 launched.

 

Look, I wholeheartedly think you brought a good discussion to the table about the value of PFT over CGC, but the build is the same. I love new thoughts, but this is the 4th forum thread in the last two months showing "new" builds that is your exact build with 1 or 2 points in different locations. Keep the discussion on going as Agooz and Exphyrl have moved on for the most part.

Edited July 11, 2012 by TheOpf