I realize this probably belongs more in a general gameplay discussion, but I feel this tends to affect PvP more than other gameplay aspects.

 

In my opinion, the scoundrel/operative combat rolls need to have a cool down placed on them. Currently, in PvP, it's a bit ridiculous having these guys literally rolling all over the map in and out of range, from one objective to the next in ridiculously short times, the list goes on. How is it even fair to give them this sort of tool, when they already have some ridiculously high survivability in PvP? A healer op/scoundrel is nearly unkillable less the entire enemy team focuses on them. Solo I've held off 4 people with my scoundrel just spamming my emergency medpack, hovering around 30% and I just stay up.

 

"Well, not everybody plays the healer spec." While that's definitely true, it certainly doesn't seem to detract from the survivability and general annoyance these classes can cause, more so now with their spammable roll. Kiting them is essentially impossible, because even if you slow them, they're still capable of cleansing it and literally rolling up to you to DPS you. If you manage to get them focused, they can still cloak out and go recover somewhere before coming back in.

 

I think there should be at least a 5 second cool down on this ability to prevent it's "abuse". Hell, if a gunslinger/sniper has a 20 second CD on theirs, I see no reason a small cool down shouldn't be placed on Operatives/Scoundrels. A good scoundrel/operative might die once or twice, a great one will be unkillable.

 

As I stated before, before the QQers take hold of this topic, I play a scoundrel healer and can agree that this ability is a bit much with no CD.

Yeah that scamper ability is out of control. Its making a mockery of warzones. From both a gameplay perspective as well as a visual perspective, with them glitching out on terrain and being extremely hard to see.

 

I think it needs like a 10 second cooldown. 5 wouldn't be enough. Its being EXTREMELY abused in warzones atm, especially in huttball matches.

Edited April 17, 2013 by SOULCASTER

You probably need a very good DPSer to bring down a sawbones/medicine guy currently. Pyro is nerfed. Ranged DPS is complete utter crap against Operative healers. Not so many options left.

I love when people claim to play the class to try and give legitimacy to their nerf cry.

 

You held off 4 people, Orly ?

Cuz, you know. Force Leap, Force Push, Force Leap, Guardian Leap is totally okay.

I realize this probably belongs more in a general gameplay discussion, but I feel this tends to affect PvP more than other gameplay aspects.

 

In my opinion, the scoundrel/operative combat rolls need to have a cool down placed on them. Currently, in PvP, it's a bit ridiculous having these guys literally rolling all over the map in and out of range, from one objective to the next in ridiculously short times, the list goes on. How is it even fair to give them this sort of tool, when they already have some ridiculously high survivability in PvP? A healer op/scoundrel is nearly unkillable less the entire enemy team focuses on them. Solo I've held off 4 people with my scoundrel just spamming my emergency medpack, hovering around 30% and I just stay up.

 

"Well, not everybody plays the healer spec." While that's definitely true, it certainly doesn't seem to detract from the survivability and general annoyance these classes can cause, more so now with their spammable roll. Kiting them is essentially impossible, because even if you slow them, they're still capable of cleansing it and literally rolling up to you to DPS you. If you manage to get them focused, they can still cloak out and go recover somewhere before coming back in.

 

I think there should be at least a 5 second cool down on this ability to prevent it's "abuse". Hell, if a gunslinger/sniper has a 20 second CD on theirs, I see no reason a small cool down shouldn't be placed on Operatives/Scoundrels. A good scoundrel/operative might die once or twice, a great one will be unkillable.

 

As I stated before, before the QQers take hold of this topic, I play a scoundrel healer and can agree that this ability is a bit much with no CD.

 

Not all Operatives/Scoundrels want to heal, and a DPS Scoundrel/Operative is very much below par in terms of survivability. Sure they can burst and damage, but what use is that if you get rag dolled whenever you don't open from stealth?

I don't play my Operative but I know it's a great tool for those that do.

Trust me .. There are more important issues on hand then the roll ..

No, it's not a bit much... It takes up way too much energy and if you spam it you are wasting all your energy you need to attack somebody. Stop crying for a nerf , maybe they should do the same to force leap. Now that is ridiculous and even more so in a hutt ball match since they can just leap anywhere and through mid air... Like to see an operative do that... Stop the crys for nerf, if they touch the ability , it had better be to remove it to give me something more benificial, because as it is now it is fine.. if nerfed it could be a useless ablity on the toolbar.

Force Leap;

 

Damage

Root

Gap closer

Energy builder

Interrupt

 

Exfiltrate;

 

Escape

 

 

------------------------------------

 

???????????????

Edited April 17, 2013 by Jayshames

use your snare problem solved i know its hard to understand a style that is not doing 3-9k dmg is some kind of usefull ^^

Cuz, you know. Force Leap, Force Push, Force Leap, Guardian Leap is totally okay.

 

All have cooldowns, none are spamable

All have cooldowns, none are spamable

 

The ability does no damage whatsoever, it is hurting nobody .. And not making operatives op in hutt ball. It is simply making them on par with the jedi classes so we can now compete in huttball.

 

Stop crying for a nerf and use your tools to stop it. Not that hard, just snare the player when they attempt to do this. Everything doesn't need to be dumbed down for every dumb player.

All have cooldowns, none are spamable

 

But also have no cost. And actually builds focus/rage.. if they put a cooldown, take out energy cost and make it 30m, that'd be a fair trade. And give Operatives a knockback.. we have none.. so, the roll is fine.

All have cooldowns, none are spamable

 

They also don't cost any resource to use deal damage and some like force leap generate resources. exfiltrate uses 25 energy, 1/4 of their total energy. In addition exfiltrate is affected by slows, such that the player only traverses half the distance when slowed. Also those abilities can traverse the Z axis, making them overall better

 

You can't compare scamper/exfiltrate with those abilities because, too much is different. Each has their upsides, scamper trades damage, Z-axis movement, zero resource cost, and a root in exchange for an ability which has no C/D, defensive boost while you roll, and a high energy cost.

 

Scamper is a better defensive/escape tool, while force leap is a better offensive tool used to close the gap and add utility via the root.

 

If you were to put a C/D equal to force leap or even a 10-15sec C/D you would have to remove the energy cost completely and possibly buff the defensive aspect of it so it last for a 2 sec after the roll completes, and remove the aspect that causes slows to decrease the distance traveled. You can't just nerf the ability by giving it a C/D. That would completely ruin what it was designed to be.

Edited April 17, 2013 by Megamaid

Force Leap;

 

Damage

Root

Gap closer

Energy builder

Interrupt

 

Exfiltrate;

 

Escape

 

 

------------------------------------

 

???????????????

 

This is AWESOME! You have to know how to play to be an Operative ..

I've been saying this since they implemented it.

 

Huttball, Ops can get to the ball before a sin can even get to the second ramp.

Alderaan, 2 Ops can cap both outside points before anyone can even get close.

Voidstar, soon as a door goes down an Op can get to the bridge and cap before anyone exits the tunnel.

Novare, same as Alderaan.

 

I've been in Voidstar matches where Operatives simply run the entire map in one go as soon as door one goes There's no way to catch them. No way to stop them. The only thing you can do is pray that someone manages to spawn in the new rez area and the rez shield is about to pop.

 

I've had Alderaan matches where we get 2 capped before we even have a chance to take a point. This isn't a matter of "skill" vs. "skill". This isn't a lrn2play situation. These are a cases of, "If you don't have a scamper Op you're not going to win".

 

Gods help you if you're up against a premade sporting 4 of these ***********.

 

I don't know what needs to be done without breaking a great utility for Operatives but SOMETHING has to happen. This is getting ridiculous. When *I* start complaining about something being borked in PvP, that means there's a literal problem.

Edited April 17, 2013 by Gankstah

No matter what side you play on it is recognizably broken(specifically in pvp). It dosnt take that much energy and ops have several abilities to regain energy quickly. The fact that a good amount of classes dont have any snairs makes arguments for that moot as well. Its extremely unfair that they can roll through fire and move faster than every player in the game. Its especially broken for op healers. They cannot be killed without a large group. If you put 2 within the same area its an unstoppable tag team. They have virtually endless cc including group cc's! stealth abilities and healing abilities that surpass every other class for on the run heals and an ability that protects them from all damage while allowing them to continue moving. Increasing their mobility to this degree just breaks the game. I can understand op dps having this but a cd would still be neccesary to balance their stealth capabilities, burst damage, and cc's. obviously it still requires skill to perform well on any char. but for those that have skill surviving against 4 players isnt unheard of. I am all for a balance of classes and trying to find ways to make everything viable but their is a point where what something was intended to do and what players do clash and we wind up with spammed abilities. If bioware wanted that then they should have given every class 1 ability. Either way im confident changes will need to be made and that bioware will answer the call.

No matter what side you play on it is recognizably broken(specifically in pvp). It dosnt take that much energy and ops have several abilities to regain energy quickly. The fact that a good amount of classes dont have any snairs makes arguments for that moot as well. Its extremely unfair that they can roll through fire and move faster than every player in the game. Its especially broken for op healers. They cannot be killed without a large group. If you put 2 within the same area its an unstoppable tag team. They have virtually endless cc including group cc's! stealth abilities and healing abilities that surpass every other class for on the run heals and an ability that protects them from all damage while allowing them to continue moving. Increasing their mobility to this degree just breaks the game. I can understand op dps having this but a cd would still be neccesary to balance their stealth capabilities, burst damage, and cc's. obviously it still requires skill to perform well on any char. but for those that have skill surviving against 4 players isnt unheard of. I am all for a balance of classes and trying to find ways to make everything viable but their is a point where what something was intended to do and what players do clash and we wind up with spammed abilities. If bioware wanted that then they should have given every class 1 ability. Either way im confident changes will need to be made and that bioware will answer the call.

 

I hate it man.. LOl we get a nice new ability and you got the QQrs coming out in full force ************ and moaning about it, until they nerf it to uselessness... The ability barely takes you anywhere.. If it had a cooldown it would be useless bc you go only a few meters... Bioware did it right by having it take away all this energy.. The op uses this 3 times and then he has no more energy to fight anybody off with and he is dead. All our abilities use alot of energy.

After reading everyones post I can tell you never bothered playing 2.0 on the pts to learn how to Counter rolling one the easy one is electro net prevents rolling escape or anything that will help them get away two you can use force pull or any pull and it will pull them out of the roll wasting the energy three force stasis or force choke can break the roll and lastly after three rolls they are out of energy and vulnerable to being zerged. Edited April 17, 2013 by Kaizersan

Cuz, you know. Force Leap, Force Push, Force Leap, Guardian Leap is totally okay.

 

Well they nerfed that. Only middle tree shien guardian and juggernauts get "unremitting" now. So its more like

 

Force Leap>*KNOCK BACK* ...slowly walk to the guy. Force Push> Force Leap **STUN**.

 

lol

No, it's not a bit much... It takes up way too much energy and if you spam it you are wasting all your energy you need to attack somebody. Stop crying for a nerf , maybe they should do the same to force leap. Now that is ridiculous and even more so in a hutt ball match since they can just leap anywhere and through mid air... Like to see an operative do that... Stop the crys for nerf, if they touch the ability , it had better be to remove it to give me something more benificial, because as it is now it is fine.. if nerfed it could be a useless ablity on the toolbar.

 

"it takes up too much action" is not a valid argument on a class that has THE LEAST action management issues of all the advanced classes. As well as action regen abilities and most importantly, a cloak ability to exit combat, stun or hide, and then regen health and action. (Even your heroic moment in PVE resets your action regen ability, though that isn't being argued here)

 

And in objective warzones like huttball for example, getting into key locations faster than anyone else, and faster than the game really is designed for, **IS** overpowering.

 

Sorry you like your new OP ability. But its broken.

Edited April 17, 2013 by SOULCASTER

I wonder if OP is the keyboard turning clicker I auto attacked to death to cap grass last night... hmmmm....

 

 

Also LOL hard at above post. We don't all play healers bro. Concealment has by FAR the *******st energy management of any class in this game.

Edited April 17, 2013 by Racter

I hate it man.. LOl we get a nice new ability and you got the QQrs coming out in full force ************ and moaning about it, until they nerf it to uselessness... The ability barely takes you anywhere.. If it had a cooldown it would be useless bc you go only a few meters... Bioware did it right by having it take away all this energy.. The op uses this 3 times and then he has no more energy to fight anybody off with and he is dead. All our abilities use alot of energy.

 

Its understandable that you dont want a nerf but your saying to use stuns or pulls to stop you. most stuns have a 10m range you move more then that and fast i might add and 2 classes have pulls. so stuns are out as a viable counter as well as pulls. You seem to ignore that ops have abilities to regain energy and i have seen 5 consecutive rolls utalizing those. the problem is it isnt just about killing you its about objectives. ops can always get the ball in hutball unless the opposing team has 1 too. they can cap turrets before a double pred/sprint combination can get there in alderan and they can get the ball in hutball and cover half the map without having to stop rolling to get a score. That is Fact. If you can somehow find a way to ignore that then you clearly cant participate in this debate. You are just campaigning to keep your ultimate move around. I have laid out a series of logical and articulated arguments that you are unable to refute. Bioware had no intention of making your ability function that way. you say that we QQ when I say i debate the facts.

I've been in Voidstar matches where Operatives simply run the entire map in one go as soon as door one goes There's no way to catch them. No way to stop them. The only thing you can do is pray that someone manages to spawn in the new rez area and the rez shield is about to pop.

 

I've had this happen. Now that the doors are open this will be more difficult to do, but it still doesn't change the fact that it is possible, and not quite difficult.

 

I've also seen ops grab the ball in Huttball while most of my team is still running UP the ramp at the beginning. It makes it possible for a team to get the ball and set up in positions before the other team can even reach the acid pit... very, very weird for regular warzones. We'll see how it plays out in ranked... but if regs are any indication, it will require a cooldown or a higher energy cost than 25-21 energy.

Edited April 17, 2013 by Monterone

Solo I've held off 4 people with my scoundrel just spamming my emergency medpack, hovering around 30% and I just stay up.

 

 

Sounds like BAD dps.

Your emergency medpac heals for 3-4k on a crit, go compare that to the DPS of lets say, dispatch or aimed shot.

 

Tell me what server you play on ?

 

lol....