The only planets where this holds true were the wookie planet, instances, and mustafar.

 

EVERY other planet you could cross from one edge of the map to the other. Yes planets were "rectangle maps" but you could freely travel any direction.

 

There were zero invisible barriers on the core worlds except at maps' edges.

Likewise for TOR and exhaustion zones. The only exception I can think of is Tatooine, and that's just one planet where it makes sense to have areas too dangerous to travel in. Either way, one planet hardly constitutes a widespread misuse of Exhaustion Zones.

Unless you're talking about city planets like Nar Shaddaa/Coruscant with real hallways and such blocking your way. In which case I definitely give the accolades to TOR over SWG. I wish that SWG offered nearly the variety that TOR does in it's planetscapes. All of those uniformly wide open planets, only with different colored trees, grass and rocks got old.

Imagine you had played TOR for 2 years+, then with no warning, no notice, nothing but rumors from players that got banned on the spot.....Bioware took the game down for a few days and removed your class and forced you pick another one, made all your items obsolete, and fundamentally changed the game play of TOR. That was the NGE for SWG.

This is it exactly. All your uber loot, gone, all your gear worthless, all your resources worthless. Crafting was broken for 6+ months so their fix was to hand out gear at each level that was better than what anyone could craft. Any bonuses you thought you got were gone, your one perk if you grinded and unlocked the ability to play jedi? You get to glow like Obwan with a buff. But essentially it was telling everyone, start over.

Everywhere I heard the patch that introduced new game enhancement for star wars galaxy was a terrible betrayal and horrible. People said subscribers left in flocks.

 

I can't find much of anything about NGE on the star wars wiki, can someone give me a detailed explanation on why this patch was so bad and how it caused so many people to quit? I have never played SWG but it has intrigued me.

The reason they had the NGE was to try and increase Sales. SWG was doing really bad apparently.

Everywhere I heard the patch that introduced new game enhancement for star wars galaxy was a terrible betrayal and horrible. People said subscribers left in flocks.

 

I can't find much of anything about NGE on the star wars wiki, can someone give me a detailed explanation on why this patch was so bad and how it caused so many people to quit? I have never played SWG but it has intrigued me.

The reason it was a betrayal had to do with the lies told preceding its launch. There were classes who kept being told, "You are getting an update next" all through the months prior to it, and then they were told with the "Trials of Obi-Wan" expansion that they would get those updates (like new pets for Creature Handlers). People were encouraged to pre-order the Trials expansion ON THAT BASIS (new pets for your CH). Then the day AFTER everyone's credit card was charged for Trials, SOE announced that NGE was going to eliminate those very classes from the game that they had said were getting new content in Trials. So you got your new pet for 2 weeks, and then your prof was deleted from the game (etc).

This was such a clear case of marketing fraud that it was rumored that the FTC (Federal Trade Commission) was investigating, and eventually SOE had to offer to refund the money of anyone who was unhappy with Trials -- essentially reversing years of SOE policy that they never refund anything.

Lies like this were told all through the summer and fall the year the NGE was released, utterly destroying SOE's credibility with the player base and causing many of us to cancel our accounts without really even trying the NGE -- just on principle.

It'd be like when 1.2 of TOR comes out, now that they have all these new crystals for sabers and stuff, they take all Force-using characters out of the game.

Jedi were a clear cut alpha class at the start. It took weeks to months to unlock your jedi character slot. Here is what they used as the secret conditions to unlock a jedi on your account:

1) You had to gain max level (Master) in X number of professions

2) At the beginning, X = 5

3) As more people unlocked the jedi slot, X increased

4) By the time most people read about the actual method to unlock, X was already equal to 25 or more. There were only 32 professions in the game, and by the time someone realized the method and starting Mastering professions, the X had risen to 29, 30, 31, or 32.

I was a super hardcore player. I played from day 1 and probably played way too much. I had to master 31 out of 32 professions and I finished on the night before the system was removed.

I would say only 1 in about 15 people unlocked a Jedi, if that. I was in a "hardcore" guild and there were only a handful of Jedi unlocked.

But Jedi were extremely powerful. There was constand open world PvP and a leveled Jedi was easily worth 10 non-Jedi. There would be raids vs other guild's cities, in an attempt to destroy their Imperial/Rebel bases, just for fun.

If your side had a few Jedi and the other side didn't, you win. Most jedi were very good DPS, strong Tanks, and could self heal. There were also Jedi skill trees that let you CC other players for 60 seconds, or make yourself immune to damage for up to 3-4 minutes! There was Jedi invisibility, super speed force run like in the movies, force choke, force lightning, HoT, Saber throws, and Jedi could also equip uber guns to use when at max range before closing with an enemy.

Then the NGE hit and Jedi were balanced and became a regular class that anyone could use. They were no longer overpowered. But there was a solid, I dunno, 6-12 months where they were the clear cut alpha class.

The reason it was a betrayal had to do with the lies told preceding its launch. There were classes who kept being told, "You are getting an update next" all through the months prior to it, and then they were told with the "Trials of Obi-Wan" expansion that they would get those updates (like new pets for Creature Handlers). People were encouraged to pre-order the Trials expansion ON THAT BASIS (new pets for your CH). Then the day AFTER everyone's credit card was charged for Trials, SOE announced that NGE was going to eliminate those very classes from the game that they had said were getting new content in Trials. So you got your new pet for 2 weeks, and then your prof was deleted from the game (etc).

 

This was such a clear case of marketing fraud that it was rumored that the FTC (Federal Trade Commission) was investigating, and eventually SOE had to offer to refund the money of anyone who was unhappy with Trials -- essentially reversing years of SOE policy that they never refund anything.

 

Lies like this were told all through the summer and fall the year the NGE was released, utterly destroying SOE's credibility with the player base and causing many of us to cancel our accounts without really even trying the NGE -- just on principle.

 

It'd be like when 1.2 of TOR comes out, now that they have all these new crystals for sabers and stuff, they take all Force-using characters out of the game.

THIS EXACTLY! SOE was telling their paying customers one thing, and doing the complete opposite. While they were telling us they were making changes to classes to make them more balanced, they were actually creating a whole new game. Then, they brought out Trials of Obiwan and said it would include all these new changes for our classes. After everyone pre-ordered the expansion, thinking we were getting an expansion for our existing game, they sprung the NGE on everyone. They basically tricked everyone to buy their new game without telling anyone. Eventually they offered refunds, but in the end it wasn't the NGE that killed SWG, it was the lies SOE spewed out. TOR is much more like the NGE than original SWG, but we still play it because the company didn't lie to our face and betray their paying customers.

Debating if SWG was any good before or after NGE is moot and misses the point.

Yes the game was a unique sandbox game before NGE, and yes NGE "wow-ified" the game using todays terminology. It took something unique and slapped what was populair at the time onto it.

The biggest problem with NGE was its "surprise" your game is now like other games that are out! THe players didnt have much of a heads up.

While it wasnt a raving success before NGE, the players who played LOVED that game.

It would be like the next SWTOR patch making the game a full loot pvp game on all servers. Sure people would like it, but the majority of players would feel betrayed that they decided to completely change the game without their consent or really any warning.

Through todays standards where WoW type games are often the only ones people realize exist in the mmorpg genere...yes it sounds like an improvement...more content ect.

The point of sandboxes was far diffrent then, and is still today, a very diffrent mindset. They are more about discovery, achieving goals set by yourself, and most importantly...progression. Progression is kind in sandboxes, especially skill based progression. In todays wow-ified mmorpg world...progression is an obstical between you and endgame content.

Just think for a moment all the people who are sick of the very type of game that SWTOR is...you saw all their postings about disliking the game ect...there is a market for the skill based sandboxes however its largly ignored by developers. Only people trying to make those types of games cant deliver basic gaming mechanics like combat and they fail...making it harder for bigger game companies to risk making a higher budget one.

These game are fun, SWTOR is fun. Its nice to have variety for those who get bored with the rush to endgame then raids/pvp grind for gear. Playing Darkfall and Perpetuum(EvE with robots) means games like this never get stale as someone whos played wow for 10 years and nothing else...i pity those people since theres not a whole lot out there for them that isnt the same game they played for 10 years.

But yeah..go to any 3rd party mmorpg site, make a general thread asking this and be shocked at how many people played SWG and LOVED it before NGE made them forever hate sony....DO it...its actually fun to see how emotionally scarred those people got all those years ago...and how many existed.

NGE was the patch issued November 2005, It is widely and incorrectly stated as what killed Galaxies. The Game was leaking subs well before NGE came out and it was in fact in response to the falling numbers of subscriptions. After NGE a new playerbase was introduced to the game and it went on with a healthy amount of subscriptions for 6 more years.

 

The NGE was a total disaster as SOE ignored all the thousands of rantings on the forums before they turned the game from a sandbox experience into the next WOW clone. The game lost 90% of its subscriber base in the 1st month after its release and never managed to pull much back. ISTR the game had 10K subs hanging on a thread for the entire duration of the NGE, perhaps a bit more when heroics where released, but dropped a lot when people realised that hoth would be the last heroic instance and TCG was taking over. Ghost towns where on every inch of the core planets. A far cry from what I would call a healthy amount of susbscriptions lol

Theres more people messing about with the swgemu.

But Jedi were extremely powerful. There was constand open world PvP and a leveled Jedi was easily worth 10 non-Jedi. There would be raids vs other guild's cities, in an attempt to destroy their Imperial/Rebel bases, just for fun.

I was on Intrepid where the first Jedi popped. People were creating characters on the server just to come talk to the individual... to see what they did, etc. In the game, this was an awesome event because it was so unknown as to how to do it. Rumors being what they were, it was often stated that, originally, the method was not so deterministic as it became but because nobody was unlocking Jedi, SOE stuck their thumb in the pie to push things along (a common refrain for SOE)... Then came the holocrons, etc. trying to lead you to unlocking. IIRC, it also wasn't just professions but having visited certain places on the map, etc. By the time I left, pre-CU introduction, I had at least 2 close Jedi friends who I aided in equipping their Jedi and running with them for added protection when they were out hunting, etc.

As to the strength of Jedi, I can only offer this. When I initially got into the game, my guild hung out on Tatooine. The call went out that there was an ancient Krayt and we swarmed the thing. Multiple guilds were beating on it. The thing destroyed us all.

I finally ended up with a Swordsman/Fencer/TK (yeah, FotM) and this character as a tank with one of my Jedi friends (who never traveled alone because BH's were such a terror at the time) would 2-handed, take down an Ancient. If anything, that speaks to their power.

BH's could be a terror for them, though, and they generally hunted in packs as well. The constant efforts to try to stay off the boards by a Jedi, the tricks BH's would use to try to find them to hunt them, etc. It was a lot of fun.

The other thing unmentioned here was SOE's CONSTANT interference with the economy.

Oh, that and kill stealing which was common (damn Riflemen)

I loved being a CH as I was always hunting for rare pets. CH was the first to get nerf'd badly. While SOE kept promising that the other professions would see the same nerf bat, it never really happened (of course, prior to the nerf bat, CH's could be pretty powerful, too). CU meant I was basically going to have to relearn the game and I had invested so much time into 3 accounts, it just wasn't worth it. I walked away.

SWG was, pre-NGE, both remarkably unique and frustratingly puzzling. The combat system wasn't put together well, but it was slowly improving and had a basis that could have been tweaked or reworked to be very good.

The immense planets and abundant sceenry and landmarks were fascinating and I spent long hours traveling through wilderness areas exploring, on the chance of finding legendary or lore worthy points of interest.

There was so much freedom of choice. Player made cities and such skilled player craftsman that you'd travel halfway around a world on foot just to visit thier vendors. You could pick which creature you wanted to try and train and work with it over an extended period of time. The creature didn't suddenly appear..you went out into the wild looking for cubs or hatchlings or whatnot that were trainable.

The graphics for the time were breathtaking and coming from years in early EQ, the difficulty and non-quest hub style was certainly doable. Even the later released ship combat was fun and challenging.

The game was tough, like most MMOs were back in those days pre-WoW.

So yeah..SWG did fall to a level of a smaller but dedicated player base.

But to log in one day, with no warning, to an unrecognizable game with you chosen skill sets gone...well...it was just a horrible and offensive decision they made and one that left a bitter taste in many mouths.

Star Wars Galaxies was dying. People can say what they want but the game was collapsing upon itself. They were bleeding some 10000 subscription per month and so, in their desperation, SOE devised the New Game Enhancements.

 

For the people that loved SWG before the NGE, it was ruined and they left. However, the NGE opened the door for more people to come in. This allowed the game to get a reasonable population and allowed it to survive a couple of more years.

 

People may have hated SWG after the NGE but the fact of the matter is, without it the game would have died years before it was actually shut down.

The population of SWG after the NGE was never, ever, ever as high as the population of the game the day before the NGE patch went live.

Before TOR came along SWG was the only game I played from day one,until NGE hit. The NGE stripped away anything that made it what it was. Many blamed LA for the change and many blamed SOE, who knows whats what but NGE was the worse idea for any game EVER. They took away my creature handler and my 2 lvl 35 crimson razor cats

Some ppl were refunded money by SOE because NGE changed the game entirely and they threatened to sue. If I remember correctly it was the ppl who had prepaid for 6months+ of sub

Before TOR came along SWG was the only game I played from day one,until NGE hit. The NGE stripped away anything that made it what it was. Many blamed LA for the change and many blamed SOE, who knows whats what but NGE was the worse idea for any game EVER. They took away my creature handler and my 2 lvl 35 crimson razor cats

 

Some ppl were refunded money by SOE because NGE changed the game entirely and they threatened to sue. If I remember correctly it was the ppl who had prepaid for 6months+ of sub

The refund was for the expansion pack that came out the day before NGE did, Trials of Obi-Wan or something. The refund is the only reason I didn't give NGE a chance except a few days. LOL.

The population of SWG after the NGE was never, ever, ever as high as the population of the game the day before the NGE patch went live.

shut it barranoobins

Jedi were a clear cut alpha class at the start. It took weeks to months to unlock your jedi character slot. Here is what they used as the secret conditions to unlock a jedi on your account:

 

1) You had to gain max level (Master) in X number of professions

2) At the beginning, X = 5

3) As more people unlocked the jedi slot, X increased

4) By the time most people read about the actual method to unlock, X was already equal to 25 or more. There were only 32 professions in the game, and by the time someone realized the method and starting Mastering professions, the X had risen to 29, 30, 31, or 32.

 

I was a super hardcore player. I played from day 1 and probably played way too much. I had to master 31 out of 32 professions and I finished on the night before the system was removed.

 

I would say only 1 in about 15 people unlocked a Jedi, if that. I was in a "hardcore" guild and there were only a handful of Jedi unlocked.

 

But Jedi were extremely powerful. There was constand open world PvP and a leveled Jedi was easily worth 10 non-Jedi. There would be raids vs other guild's cities, in an attempt to destroy their Imperial/Rebel bases, just for fun.

 

If your side had a few Jedi and the other side didn't, you win. Most jedi were very good DPS, strong Tanks, and could self heal. There were also Jedi skill trees that let you CC other players for 60 seconds, or make yourself immune to damage for up to 3-4 minutes! There was Jedi invisibility, super speed force run like in the movies, force choke, force lightning, HoT, Saber throws, and Jedi could also equip uber guns to use when at max range before closing with an enemy.

 

Then the NGE hit and Jedi were balanced and became a regular class that anyone could use. They were no longer overpowered. But there was a solid, I dunno, 6-12 months where they were the clear cut alpha class.

this is exactly how it was. basically long story short people was QQing because some had a hard time with precu then $OE and its Lord Smedley went with the WoW approach and brought in the NGE thus made the game handed to you basically. Jedi was made starting class but yes you had to do the grind to lvl 90 to make jedi. Yes alot of people left like myeself and alot came back like myself. I hated the NGE but i loved Star Wars and my guild and friends that put up with it and played it. Would i give anything for it to come back yes and no, yes because i miss it and i would love to have kept it going for RP purpose with my character from SWTOR for the family legacy and no because it finally needs to be put in its resting place.

4) By the time most people read about the actual method to unlock, X was already equal to 25 or more. There were only 32 professions in the game, and by the time someone realized the method and starting Mastering professions, the X had risen to 29, 30, 31, or 32.

They may have eventually changed it to more than 5 but it never raised that high. What you're forgetting was that X = 5 RANDOM professions chosen for your account. Several of which you could find the name of by doing holocrons and 1-2 of which were completely secret and had to be guessed.

I'm not arguing whether or not SWG would have survived longer without the NGE but there were 3 big events that ruined the game and made it less magical for the people who really loved it:

1) Introduction of the holocron grind changed the game from being able to pick and choose your classes and enjoy the game to a game where your favorite pvper could be a Swordsmen one day and a cantina dancer the next day. It fundamentally changed the mechanics of how people played the game.

2) Combat Update (CU): Fundementally changed the way combat worked right after a large majority of the population unlocked their Force Sensitive slots. Jedi went from being a clear Alpha class that when fully maxed a player could take out half a dozen people without breaking a sweat to a class that was better than most but not spectacular, in terms of what was promised - Players felt cheated out of what they worked for and the way the class worked in general was completely changed.

3) NGE: Turned SWG from an original sandbox type game to a more linear EQ/WoW type clone.

When I first purchased SWG, in 04, I loaded the game up and I was like "awe, I can't play a jedi? :(" Then I started doing some research, and I found that through various secret quests and achievements, I could eventually 'become' a jedi. I thought that was awesome.

So, fast forward to 6 months later... about the time it takes to achieve jedi status. Next, you had to re-grind up xp to become a powerful jedi. If someone came across and killed you? YOU LOST XP. I thought that was super cool idea.

NGE took all that out. No secret jedi unlock. Jedi was a starting class. So all that we had achieved, that took most of us a 6-7 month time frame, was totally wiped out.

I blame WoW's huge success on the mass exodus of SWG.

The best part was the Trials of Obi-Wan expansion, offering unique collectors items for certain professions.

Professions which were then removed two days later (or so) with the NGE.

People threatened to sue... threads were locked, SOE denied stuff... then about a week alter SOE offered full refunds. *********** nobs.

SWG had its problems, yes. However the following would have fixed them:

Add a heavy armour penetration Carbine (negate the Rifle mind pool dominance)

Add a heavy armour penetration Pistol (negate the Rifle mind pool dominance)

Allow medpacks to heal mind pool (negate the Rifle mind pool dominance)

Implement diminishing returns to deal with defence stackers. A little bit of pistolier, Fencer and some TKM was incredible especially with Centre of Being thrown in.

...as back then, the mind pool was unhealable barring a very limited offering from a Combat Medic. A lot of people would spec for Rifle and Combat Medic, which gave the only heavy armour penetration weapon in the game, the only profession which could attack a none healable stat (mind) using Headshot and throw insane DoTs (poison and disease) which also specifically targeted the mind pool.

On a personal note, to control the rising numbers of Jedi, if you're popped by a player Bounty Hunter, then your Jedi slot goes into a 24 or 48 hour stasis. Better than permadeath

SWG was the greatest MMO I have ever played, and to a lesser extent the Combat Upgrade. I did have a *LOT* of fun with the CU as a Bounty Hunter, tracking down player Jedi and doing reasonably well scoring my marks. Plus my Bounty Hunter was the shortest Bothan imaginable, wearing a full suit of Peko Peko feather (gave health increase) enhanced Gold and Black Bounty Hunter armour. My jetpack rocked somewhat too

My fondest memory... I was tracking a Jedi mark, fairly high value so he was close to being full template. The Arakyd Probe put him on Corellia, I landed in Coronet, and pushed out the Seeker Probes. He was just outside the City, most likely shopping! I caught up with him, but blew my cover. He then proceeded to taunt me, letting e get in close before CCing me and /forcerun'ning away spamming taunts.

I sent him a /tell advising him I'd catch up with him later

The next day, I see he is online so I pop an Arakyd Probe. He was on Talus o_0. I buff up and mooch over. Keeping a strategic distance and using scenery to hide behind, I track him to his Guild Metropolis (yes player housing was another *********** awesome aspect of SWG). Unbelievably he is outside duelling with guild mates. I wait till he is low on health and swoop in on my jetpack. He bricks it, I KD and within seconds he is incapacitated. I walk very slowly over to his prone body, savouring every step and relishing the image of some teen screaming at his monitor about the impending loss of skill points… and /deathblow.

Man the hate I got from him was delicious. Revenge is a dish best served cold, and all that

Speaking of shopping, the crafting in pre Combat Upgrade SWG was incredible. There were hundreds of resources which you could harvest using mining installations. The resources would spawn with a unique name and unique stats, and despawn after a couple of weeks. In crafting the stats would affect how well the final build would turn out, so when a resource spawned with high stats in the properties you wanted, people would go crazy dropping harvesters hehe!

SWG was a dieing game with no one to play with really , servers were empty and there was nothing left to do. NGE was away to try to get the WoW crowd and more players to come in.

First 3 months after NGE had gained a decent amount of players and even lost players but the players gained , SOE still seen profit . Over time the game slipped back into deadness and was on lifesupport for the better of 8years .

Lucas allowed Bioware to work on their own version of StarWars MMO and with LucasArts involved they decided it was time to let SWG end and start over on a new game .

Really I bet the same trolls that attacked SWG in the SWG forums are in here attacking TOR . I have a feeling that is TOR does not make it , there will be no third StarWars MMO .

Star Wars fans are more poisoness than Trek fans, never happy and always complaing.

I am a bigger fan of StarWars but you can go check STO forums and see less attacks on the game than ever in SWG or TOR.

SWG had it chance and the players worked hard to kill it , SOE did everything they could to try to keep that game profitable and afloat. NGE was a bad way of doing it but when you are losing money , you do crazy things . Period

The best part was the Trials of Obi-Wan expansion, offering unique collectors items for certain professions.

 

Professions which were then removed two days later (or so) with the NGE.

 

People threatened to sue... threads were locked, SOE denied stuff... then about a week alter SOE offered full refunds. *********** nobs.

 

SWG had its problems, yes. However the following would have fixed them:

Add a heavy armour penetration Carbine (negate the Rifle mind pool dominance)

Add a heavy armour penetration Pistol (negate the Rifle mind pool dominance)

Allow medpacks to heal mind pool (negate the Rifle mind pool dominance)

 

Implement diminishing returns to deal with defence stackers. A little bit of pistolier, Fencer and some TKM was incredible especially with Centre of Being thrown in.

 

...as back then, the mind pool was unhealable barring a very limited offering from a Combat Medic. A lot of people would spec for Rifle and Combat Medic, which gave the only heavy armour penetration weapon in the game, the only profession which could attack a none healable stat (mind) using Headshot and throw insane DoTs (poison and disease) which also specifically targeted the mind pool.

 

On a personal note, to control the rising numbers of Jedi, if you're popped by a player Bounty Hunter, then your Jedi slot goes into a 24 or 48 hour stasis. Better than permadeath

^ no wonder why the game sucked . I am not paying for a game where I cannot play the way i want for 24-48 hrs lmao.

 

^ no wonder why the game sucked . I am not paying for a game where I cannot play the way i want for 24-48 hrs lmao.

lol epic fail at reading