Hi my name is cupofwater and I started a thread where I state everyone else is wrong and I'm right. Go ahead and make an argument and I'll tell you why you're wrong.........

 

Are you fn serious?

I'm telling people how each class can succeed in there own way and also trying to make a thread that isn't about based on the OP crying about certain classes or why there own class is terrible

Operatives can heal themselves, Assassins cannot.

 

Operatives opener is much better than Assassins.

 

PvP is not Black and White.

 

Two people staring at each other pressing the attack button doesn't define balance in PvP.

Concealment operative heal is weaker than Assassins overall better survivability, if your enemy is allowing you to cast your 2.5 sec weak heal in a fight or is not dealing far more damage than it can heal then they are doingitwrong.

Operatives opener is not significantly stronger than Assassins. It is stronger, but not strong enough to be seen as a viable choice over Assassin considering Operatives are weaker everywhere else.

A person's ability to "succeed" with a class in a team-based PvP system against other players of varying skill and gear levels does not make that said class "balanced."

 

The word succeed is incredibly vague and subjective, and as such, it can be twisted and redefined such that all classes could "succeed" irrespective of actual class balance.

 

Balance should be indicated by a class's ability to perform very specific roles as well as other classes can perform those roles. If one class can perform better than other classes and perform better in a greater number of rolls, than that class is not balanced.

 

You defended that Operatives can perform well, but if an Assassin can do the same things but better, than Operatives are not balanced. "Succeeding" is irrelevant.

In the same note, "Balance" is also very vague and subjective, probably equally if not more so than "succeed".

Defining balance is almost impossible. You cannot limit it to roles either because a class is balanced as a WHOLE. For example, between Assassin and Operative, you have to take into account healing and guarding. How do you equate ASsassin's ability to guard to Operatives ability to Heal? How do you compare Operatives Opening Burst to Assassin's sustained dmg and built up burst?

It's all subjective.

A person's ability to "succeed" with a class in a team-based PvP system against other players of varying skill and gear levels does not make that said class "balanced."

 

The word succeed is incredibly vague and subjective, and as such, it can be twisted and redefined such that all classes could "succeed" irrespective of actual class balance.

 

Balance should be indicated by a class's ability to perform very specific roles as well as other classes can perform those roles. If one class can perform better than other classes and perform better in a greater number of rolls, than that class is not balanced.

 

You defended that Operatives can perform well, but if an Assassin can do the same things but better, than Operatives are not balanced. "Succeeding" is irrelevant.

This post is 100% correct

Concealment operative heal is weaker than Assassins overall better survivability, if your enemy is allowing you to cast your 2.5 sec weak heal in a fight or is not dealing far more damage than it can heal then they are doingitwrong.

 

Operatives opener is not significantly stronger than Assassins. It is stronger, but not strong enough to be seen as a viable choice over Assassin considering Operatives are weaker everywhere else.

A) That's your opinion.

B) Better survivability doesn't applies in scenarios where you aren't taking damage.

C) You can heal other people, you can't "Survive" other people.

And since you will counter with "Assassin's can guard other people" which is true, how do you compare guarding with healing? Two different abilities with different uses.

A) That's your opinion.

B) Better survivability doesn't applies in scenarios where you aren't taking damage.

C) You can heal other people, you can't "Survive" other people.

 

And since you will counter with "Assassin's can guard other people" which is true, how do you compare guarding with healing? Two different abilities with different uses.

A) I concede the point

Although your heal isn't going to help you in a fight unless people decide not to attack the guy who is sitting there healing himself.

B) The 15s regenerate heals at a similar rate to kolto injection (From my own experience)

C) Healing is not typically done by Concealment because they are better off trying to deal damage in most situations due to long casting time. It could be useful in a clutch though.

AND on top of all this, there's another HUGE factor in balance:

Learning Curve

Some classes are "easier" to play then others. Some classes shine at the top tier of play where as some shine in the lower tier of play.

Typically FOTM classes a shine in the lower tier of play because it's easy to do well with without much knowledge of what you are doing.

At different levels of play, different classes play differently.

For example, a lot of players don't have the know how/reaction time/care to use interrupts and stuns against casters. This would give a HUGE advantage to casters. If in order for your class to be balanced against a caster you need to use 100% of you skills, and you are only mentally capable of handling 90% then that class is imbalanced FOR YOU.

Same thing goes for casters who don't root/kite/snare melee.

Something like Commandos who can literally 1 button kill things, that's a huge example. Compared to any other class that only spams one button they dominate. However when you start getting into the higher levels of play, when 20+ buttons are used, then they don't so so hot.

So then where do you balance? Do you balance at the noob level? Do you balance at the top tier level? Somewhere in the middle? What middle?

Again it's all super subjective.

A person's ability to "succeed" with a class in a team-based PvP system against other players of varying skill and gear levels does not make that said class "balanced."

 

The word succeed is incredibly vague and subjective, and as such, it can be twisted and redefined such that all classes could "succeed" irrespective of actual class balance.

 

Balance should be indicated by a class's ability to perform very specific roles as well as other classes can perform those roles. If one class can perform better than other classes and perform better in a greater number of rolls, than that class is not balanced.

 

You defended that Operatives can perform well, but if an Assassin can do the same things but better, than Operatives are not balanced. "Succeeding" is irrelevant.

Succeeding is very relevant for pvp,

Your argument comes down to "Assassins being able to outperform Operatives"

This argument itself is extremely vague because both classes perform in similar and different ways. IMO the Assassin is in no way stronger then the Operative

Opener: Operative > Assassin

Stun Lock ability : Operative > Assassin

Sustained Damage on single target: Operative < Assassin

Burst Damage: Operative > Assassin

Survival: Operative < Assassin

Ability to help teammates (Guard/Heals): Assassin > Operative

Overall Damage: Operative ~ Assassin

A) I concede the point

 

Although your heal isn't going to help you in a fight unless people decide not to attack the guy who is sitting there healing himself.

 

B) The 15s regenerate heals at a similar rate to kolto injection (From my own experience)

 

C) Healing is not typically done by Concealment because they are better off trying to deal damage in most situations due to long casting time. It could be useful in a clutch though.

You are trying to prove assassin is better than operative. I am not saying one way or the other. All i'm trying to show is that it's impossible to prove, that it's all subjective and dependent on a lot of things.

I personally think Assassin's make much much much much much better huttball carriers than operatives. But that is just one roll in many in huttball. I think operatives make better "support" for the huttball carriers with their ability to lock down a would be pursuer. I also think operatives make much much much much much better enemy huttball attackers/score prevention with their burst and ability to lock down.

How do you balance that as a whole class though?

Succeeding is very relevant for pvp,

Your argument comes down to "Assassins being able to outperform Operatives"

This argument itself is extremely vague because both classes perform in similar and different ways. IMO the Assassin is in no way stronger then the Operative

 

Opener: Operative > Assassin

Stun Lock ability : Operative > Assassin

Sustained Damage on single target: Operative < Assassin

Burst Damage: Operative > Assassin

Survival: Operative < Assassin

Ability to help teammates (Guard/Heals): Assassin > Operative

Overall Damage: Operative ~ Assassin

Mobility (Assassin > Operative)

CC (Assassin > Operative)

Overall damage (Assassin > Operative)

More mobility means more uptime which means more damage and utility.

Assassins also have better CC once they are unstealthed.

You spend most of a fight unstealthed.

Also I'm not sure why you separated Burst, Opener, and stunlock. Ops burst/stunlock is their opener. Outside of that is sustained damage and normal CC.