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Vengeance Juggernaut/ Vigilance Guardian PVE Guide (Updated to 5.7a)


Assassinarian

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AUTHOR'S NOTE: This guide is was fairly lazily written without doing enough research. Please go to this heavily revised and updated version instead:

Vengeance/Vigilance Simple PVE Guide 5.10 (COMPLETELY REVISED) By Azray'ell

 

This guide has been updated to 5.7a because I just felt like there should be a guide as Dulfy's Vengeance Juggernaut and Vigilance Guardian guide is only up to 4.0 which is extremely outdated.

 

Gearing (Naming is from 248 gear as an example of how the piece may be named regardless of rating):

 

 

You should have the following modifications, implants, etc.

Earpiece:

1x[GEMINI MK-5 Adept Device]

Implants:

2x[GEMINI MK-5 Quick Savant Package]

Relics:

1x[GEMINI MK-5 Relic of Serendipitous Assault]

1x[GEMINI MK-5 Relic of Devastating Vengeance]

Armorings and Hilt:

8x[Versatile Armoring 52]

1x[Versatile Hilt 52]

Mods:

9x[Lethal Mod 52]

Enhancements:

3x[Quick Savant Enhancement 52]

3x[Adept Enhancement 52]

1x[initiative Enhancement 52]

Augments (It is recommended to have the new [236] versions of the following augments if you can afford them):

5x[Advanced Alacrity Augment 45]

6x[Advanced Critical Augment 45]

3x[Advanced Accuracy Augment 45]

Color Crystals

2x[Advanced Eviscerating Crystal]

Stim:

[Advanced Polybiotic Proficient Stim]

 

 

Vengeance Rotation:

 

 

Opener: Enrage (if ready) > Saber Throw > Force Charge

 

Main Rotation: Filler > Shatter > Filler > Ravage > Filler > Sundering Assault > Filler > Saber Throw (Hew if ready)

 

Fillers: The fillers aren't in fact fillers, they're a rotation within the rotation and the order is Impale > Force Scream > Vengeful Slam and each rotation, one of them is moved up by one to compensate for the 4th use of fillers in the Main Rotation.

 

Example of Full Rotation: Enrage > Saber Throw > Force Charge > Impale > Shatter > Force Scream > Ravage > Vengeful Slam > Sundering Assault > Impale > Saber Throw (Hew if ready) > Force Scream > Shatter > Vengeful Slam > Ravage > Impale > Sundering Assault > Force Scream > Saber Throw (Hew if ready) > Vengeful Slam > Shatter > Impale > Ravage > Force Scream > Sundering Assault > Vengeful Slam > Saber Throw (Hew if ready)

 

 

Vengeance Utility Build:

 

 

Skillful: Payback + Path Carver + Unyielding

Masterful: Unstoppable

Heroic: Warbringer + Through Passion + Consuming Rage

Legendary: Extending Roar

 

 

Vigilance Rotation

 

 

Opener: Combat Focus (if ready) > Saber Throw > Force Leap

 

Main Rotation: Filler > Plasma Brand > Filler > Blade Barrage > Filler > Sundering Strike > Filler > Saber Throw (Whirling Blade if ready)

 

Fillers: The fillers aren't in fact fillers, they're a rotation within the rotation and the order is Overhead Slash > Blade Storm > Vigilant Thrust and each rotation, one of them is moved up by one to compensate for the 4th use of fillers in the Main Rotation.

 

Example of Full Rotation: Combat Focus > Saber Throw > Force Leap > Overhead Slash > Plasma Brand > Blade Storm > Blade Barrage > Vigilant Thrust > Sundering Strike > Overhead Slash > Saber Throw (Whirling Blade if ready) > Blade Storm > Plasma Brand > Vigilant Thrust > Blade Barrage > Overhead Slash > Sundering Strike > Blade Storm > Saber Throw (Whirling Blade if ready) > Vigilant Thrust > Plasma Brand > Overhead Slash > Blade Barrage > Blade Storm > Sundering Strike > Vigilant Thrust > Saber Throw (Whirling Blade if ready)

 

 

Vigilance Utilities

 

 

Skillful: Second Wind + Trailblazer + Defiance

Masterful: Unremitting

Heroic: Ardent Advocate + Through Peace + Peaceful Focus

Legendary: Unyielding Justice

 

 

Credits:

 

 

Assassinarian

KratosTrebor

 

 

Edited by Assassinarian
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Rotation looks solid, but I have to take issue with some of these utility picks.

 

On skillful, Payback is next to useless on pretty much every fight and the same goes for Unyielding, better to take Warmonger for extra mobility or Deadly Reprisal for some bonus rage (though you don't really need it).

 

On Masterful I'd recommend Unshackling Rage (quite a great mobility utility) and then Crushing Fist or Unstoppable depending on the fight (or Pooled Hatred on a select few fight).

 

For Heroic I definitely recommend against War Bringer, you could use it to get an extra Hew in the opener, but with Hew procs and a pretty strict rotation it doesn't really fit anywhere. Hardened Defense is pretty much mandatory, it's amazing for mitigating AoE damage, which you'll be getting in pretty much every fight, Through Passion and Consuming Rage are solid picks (though I would only use Consuming Rage on a few fights, most fights there's just not much for you to cleanse).

 

Lastly on legendary Extending Roar can be pretty useful, but I recommend taking a look at through Victory, having Mad Dash on a lower cooldown is great for mitigating big hits or for boosting your mobility.

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Hey there!

Thanks for the feedback, I'll look into your utility suggestions and try to make a build that would work for most fights. Also, I used Warbringer because it's useful to ensure that you have Hew ready in the first round of the rotation ;)

Edited by Assassinarian
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I don't exactly understand your approach to gearing. Without calculating the exact numbers you seem to have about 1800 crit and 1400 alacrity, right? What's the reason behind this? Don't you want to go for either the first (around 750) or the second (around 1860) alacrity cap? You're kind of wasting 600-700 alacrity right now.

And the second question would be about the crit-relic you're using. I thought that the "numbers-guys" found the SA/FR combo to be the best one (especially for a high crit build), am I missing something?

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I don't exactly understand your approach to gearing. Without calculating the exact numbers you seem to have about 1800 crit and 1400 alacrity, right? What's the reason behind this? Don't you want to go for either the first (around 750) or the second (around 1860) alacrity cap? You're kind of wasting 600-700 alacrity right now.

And the second question would be about the crit-relic you're using. I thought that the "numbers-guys" found the SA/FR combo to be the best one (especially for a high crit build), am I missing something?

 

Yeah. This x 10. It'd be one thing if Mr. Guide had done the calculus (and i mean that literally - diminishing returns are literally a curve to be plotted) to show that after hitting the 1860 alacrity threshold, the resulting crit was low enough to actually benefit from the crit relic.

 

And there exist specs who actually do better in the 1400-ish alacrity range (cough IO Merc cough) because of the effect on resource management and rotation precision. But in no case is someone running 1800 crit and getting more out of the crit relic than the two standard power/mastery relics. That math has already been done and there's no point in further debate unless someone has a shiny new equation to show off.

 

But since warriors don't have a time-based resource regen and aren't channeling, they tend to be poster children for the 1.3sec GCD gear setup...which means that second best is the 1.4 sec GCD setup and the worst place is literally where this gear appears to take us. Alacrity that isn't (a) increasing APM, (b) improving resource availability, or © permitting a superior rotation = wasted stat points better spent in crit. 1400 alacrity on a warrior is like a 2nd tank in EV. Both make me a little sad.

 

TLDR: back your gear choices up with hard math or delete your gear section. Better off leaving it blank than giving out crap advice.

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Rotation part is valid but gearing and utility parts are terrible, for example you never want warbringer on vengeance because you get to use hew on any target anyways when it procs.

I don't remember the utility names off the top of my head but I usually run:

 

First tier: 2, 4, 5

Second: 2, 6

Third: 4, 6

Legendary: 5

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  • 2 weeks later...

The rotation as given requires some extra alacrity above the 1.4 s gcd threshold to get saber throw available on every second rotation. With 711 alacrity, you get 23.3 s cooldown on saber throw, but two rotations only take 2 x 8 x 1.4 = 22.4 s

 

Personally I find it easier to mainly think about the shorter rotation with impale - filler - force scream - filler - vengeful slam - filler, as that is strictly fixed while sundering strike, ravage, hew, and saber throw can be swapped around somewhat freely to optimize rage management. Still, it works just fine with a more fixed rotation (padding with a saber strike when neither saber throw nor hew is available), so for people who prefer that it's a solid choice.

 

Btw, Rydarus' vigilance guide ( http://dulfy.net/2016/12/30/swtor-5-0-vigilance-guardian-pve-guide-by-rydarus/ ) is updated for 5.0 even if the vengeance one isn't.

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  • 1 month later...
  • 3 months later...
Yeah. This x 10. It'd be one thing if Mr. Guide had done the calculus (and i mean that literally - diminishing returns are literally a curve to be plotted) to show that after hitting the 1860 alacrity threshold, the resulting crit was low enough to actually benefit from the crit relic.

 

And there exist specs who actually do better in the 1400-ish alacrity range (cough IO Merc cough) because of the effect on resource management and rotation precision. But in no case is someone running 1800 crit and getting more out of the crit relic than the two standard power/mastery relics. That math has already been done and there's no point in further debate unless someone has a shiny new equation to show off.

 

But since warriors don't have a time-based resource regen and aren't channeling, they tend to be poster children for the 1.3sec GCD gear setup...which means that second best is the 1.4 sec GCD setup and the worst place is literally where this gear appears to take us. Alacrity that isn't (a) increasing APM, (b) improving resource availability, or © permitting a superior rotation = wasted stat points better spent in crit. 1400 alacrity on a warrior is like a 2nd tank in EV. Both make me a little sad.

 

TLDR: back your gear choices up with hard math or delete your gear section. Better off leaving it blank than giving out crap advice.

 

What are your thoughts on low alac high crit for veng? I geared mine before reading any guides (I PvE and PvP so I figured high crit would be a better balance) and ended up with 990 alac and 2100 crit. I know I'm over DR on crit, but my DPS has been satisfactory, usually outparse my guildies in raids with 247ilvl. Would it be worth the credits to dump some crit augs to go for the 1.4s GCD?

Edited by RiChess
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What are your thoughts on low alac high crit for veng? I geared mine before reading any guides (I PvE and PvP so I figured high crit would be a better balance) and ended up with 990 alac and 2100 crit. I know I'm over DR on crit, but my DPS has been satisfactory, usually outparse my guildies in raids with 247ilvl. Would it be worth the credits to dump some crit augs to go for the 1.4s GCD?

 

I personally prefer the 1860 alacrity and dump the rest in crit build (assuming you've met the 110% accuracy thing). The shorter GCD means I get more abilities off or something because my damage did increase.

 

Do note: the 1860 number is only feasible in full 248. Below that you will fall below the threshold.

 

I'd have to go do some math to talk about crit asymptotes as I dont really know what it is offhand. Now if you wanted to talk about tanks and defense rating offhand lol...

 

Anyway, I think this guide was written before we knew about the alacrity roundoff, and thus the discrepancy in optimal gearing strategy.

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  • 4 months later...
This guide has been updated to 5.7a because I just felt like there should be a guide as Dulfy's Vengeance Juggernaut and Vigilance Guardian guide is only up to 4.0 which is extremely outdated.

 

Gearing (Naming is from 248 gear as an example of how the piece may be named regardless of rating):

 

 

You should have the following modifications, implants, etc.

Earpiece:

1x[GEMINI MK-5 Adept Device]

Implants:

2x[GEMINI MK-5 Quick Savant Package]

Relics:

1x[GEMINI MK-5 Relic of Serendipitous Assault]

1x[GEMINI MK-5 Relic of Devastating Vengeance]

Armorings and Hilt:

8x[Versatile Armoring 52]

1x[Versatile Hilt 52]

Mods:

9x[Lethal Mod 52]

Enhancements:

3x[Quick Savant Enhancement 52]

3x[Adept Enhancement 52]

1x[initiative Enhancement 52]

Augments (It is recommended to have the new [236] versions of the following augments if you can afford them):

5x[Advanced Alacrity Augment 45]

6x[Advanced Critical Augment 45]

3x[Advanced Accuracy Augment 45]

Color Crystals

2x[Advanced Eviscerating Crystal]

Stim:

[Advanced Polybiotic Proficient Stim]

 

 

Vengeance Rotation:

 

 

Opener: Enrage (if ready) > Saber Throw > Force Charge

 

Main Rotation: Filler > Shatter > Filler > Ravage > Filler > Sundering Assault > Filler > Saber Throw (Hew if ready)

 

Fillers: The fillers aren't in fact fillers, they're a rotation within the rotation and the order is Impale > Force Scream > Vengeful Slam and each rotation, one of them is moved up by one to compensate for the 4th use of fillers in the Main Rotation.

 

Example of Full Rotation: Enrage > Saber Throw > Force Charge > Impale > Shatter > Force Scream > Ravage > Vengeful Slam > Sundering Assault > Impale > Saber Throw (Hew if ready) > Force Scream > Shatter > Vengeful Slam > Ravage > Impale > Sundering Assault > Force Scream > Saber Throw (Hew if ready) > Vengeful Slam > Shatter > Impale > Ravage > Force Scream > Sundering Assault > Vengeful Slam > Saber Throw (Hew if ready)

 

 

Vengeance Utility Build:

 

 

Skillful: Payback + Path Carver + Unyielding

Masterful: Unstoppable

Heroic: Warbringer + Through Passion + Consuming Rage

Legendary: Extending Roar

 

 

Vigilance Rotation

 

 

Opener: Combat Focus (if ready) > Saber Throw > Force Leap

 

Main Rotation: Filler > Plasma Brand > Filler > Blade Barrage > Filler > Sundering Strike > Filler > Saber Throw (Whirling Blade if ready)

 

Fillers: The fillers aren't in fact fillers, they're a rotation within the rotation and the order is Overhead Slash > Blade Storm > Vigilant Thrust and each rotation, one of them is moved up by one to compensate for the 4th use of fillers in the Main Rotation.

 

Example of Full Rotation: Combat Focus > Saber Throw > Force Leap > Overhead Slash > Plasma Brand > Blade Storm > Blade Barrage > Vigilant Thrust > Sundering Strike > Overhead Slash > Saber Throw (Whirling Blade if ready) > Blade Storm > Plasma Brand > Vigilant Thrust > Blade Barrage > Overhead Slash > Sundering Strike > Blade Storm > Saber Throw (Whirling Blade if ready) > Vigilant Thrust > Plasma Brand > Overhead Slash > Blade Barrage > Blade Storm > Sundering Strike > Vigilant Thrust > Saber Throw (Whirling Blade if ready)

 

 

Vigilance Utilities

 

 

Skillful: Second Wind + Trailblazer + Defiance

Masterful: Unremitting

Heroic: Ardent Advocate + Through Peace + Peaceful Focus

Legendary: Unyielding Justice

 

 

Credits:

 

 

Assassinarian

KratosTrebor

 

 

So....I'm a little confused. Are you guys saying that both these rotations are viable? I was using this one

https://www.docdroid.net/DK28Hso/50v...guide.pdf.html and didn't think much had changed since 5.0 but I've looked around and saw this post and started to changed up my rotation to match but later down the thread someone posted the rotation I was using before and no one is saying anything in conflict. Much help would be appreciated

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the guide you posted aswell as similar rotations posted earlier in this thread are outdated.

 

chliing scream isnt vaible anymore since its damage got nerfed. futhermore some of these rotations suggest to use shatter at 6th or 8th position, which doenst make much sense. you would delay your main dot for 10secs. it should always be at position 2.

 

just use the rotation posted by OP and you are fine.

(skip either saber throw or charge in the opener, since in PVE(and 99% of the time in pvp) you only need 3 rage/focus and only 1 gap closer/range skill at this point. otherwise you just delay you main rotation for one GCD)

Edited by mrphstar
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If you're new to the class just use rydarus's guide and ignore the freezing force bits, as its pointless since the nerf.

 

If you're not new, you shouldn't be reliant on the guide anyway, right?

 

Well, you say this, but just because you can play a class, mobs die and you don't, doesn't mean you "know" your class well enough to teach others. I think that's how bad guides are made. Like I said the "outdated" rotation was working fine for me and of course I wasn't in any raids since Dread Palace on my Sorc so I saw how much had changed always looking to improve. I just don't understand why ***** has to get complicated to be "enjoyable".

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Well, you say this, but just because you can play a class, mobs die and you don't, doesn't mean you "know" your class well enough to teach others. I think that's how bad guides are made. Like I said the "outdated" rotation was working fine for me and of course I wasn't in any raids since Dread Palace on my Sorc so I saw how much had changed always looking to improve. I just don't understand why ***** has to get complicated to be "enjoyable".

 

My point was: if you are new and just learning, you're not going to be hitting anywhere close to the top anyway. Further, I argue that if you are experienced enough on the class, you are probably better served by practicing and playing with your rotation yourself, rather than combing through often simplified/generalized guides intended for beginners. Which is honestly not complicated, provided you are familiar enough with the class (and again, thus the comment on beginners).

 

Nowhere did i say anything about writing guides.

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My point was: if you are new and just learning, you're not going to be hitting anywhere close to the top anyway. Further, I argue that if you are experienced enough on the class, you are probably better served by practicing and playing with your rotation yourself, rather than combing through often simplified/generalized guides intended for beginners. Which is honestly not complicated, provided you are familiar enough with the class (and again, thus the comment on beginners).

 

Nowhere did i say anything about writing guides.

 

Sorry but old military lesson. What I was trying to say, like what they used to tell us. When you truly know or understand something, you can explain it or teach it to someone else, hence the comment about a guide. To me, the ones who write guides truly understand the class on a level I don't seem to be getting. I just figured you guys would rather a person know their own shortcomings and try to improve as they know how. Some guys can do exactly what you said from the beginning and learn that way. I like myself need help.

TLDR

If playing around and learning my class is the key, the rotation I had was OK (to me) but everyone is saying "Its outdated" and never but "that good for open world leveling for example.

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  • 2 months later...

Okay, I'd like to make a few notes on your rotation.

 

Firstly, I'd like to say that the rotation posted is quite serviceable, but it is not optimal. If what you plan on doing in the game is just FP's and some SM, or even HM raids, you'll probably be fine, if you plan on pushing for highest possible DPS, it needs some changes.

 

So for highest DPS, saber throw has close to the lowest priority of fillers and is generally only used in places where Sundering Assault is not up and you would be rage deficient if you used vicious slash in rotation.

 

Optimal opener is as follows: Force Leap, (if you are in a fight that you have to close distance) or Sundering Assault (when on a dummy, or fights like Revan that you can stand right next to him when you start combat)

Impale -> Enrage + Shatter -> Force Scream -> Hew (if procced) Ravage (if not) -> Vengeful Slam -> Hew or Ravage (depending on what was just used) -> Impale -> Sundering Assault -> Force Scream -> Shatter -> Vengeful Slam -> Ravage -> Impale -> Vicious Slash -> Force Scream.... Etc.

 

Why:

In your opener, "Enrage + Saber Throw -> Force Leap -> Impale" there are three main issues.

First, Saber throw is a wasted GCD, and because of the animation Leap can last slightly longer than 1 GCD at the 1857 Alacrity cap wasting slightly more time.

Second, Sundering Assault should ALWAYS be the first damaging ability in your rotation other than a gap closer because using it procs your Two-Piece set bonus for 2% extra damage.

Third, rage management. Sundering Assault + Enrage will actually overflow your rage, by placing Enrage after Impale however lets you instead use Vicious Slash, instead of Saber Throw farther into the rotation and Vicious Slash does slightly more damage than Saber Throw. Though this effect is mitigated to a large extent in raid by passive rage generation, there are some fight that it is not, and is worth noting.

 

I'd also like to note that if executed properly the Vengeance/Vigilance rotation flows like no other rotation in the game, and for the most part once you've started it's nearly self explanatory as you go. It's one of the things I truly love about the class, and once you understand it makes it fairly easy.

 

Now I should add the caveat that your DPS in fight is determined as much by your knowledge of the fight, uptime, target swapping and a hundred other factors, as your rotation is. I realize that my comments to this are somewhat nitpicky, and I do like your overall simply done breakdown of the class.

 

Cheers-

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