No need to insult others. Who's the real joke?

 

Mace Windu won the duel. Sidious was on the ground, defeated. It doesn't matter if he was holding back or not. He was defeated.

 

This may be Mace Windu's greatest feat, but why argue against it to support Revan. Revan would never touch Sidious or Mace Windu in skill.

 

lol, in determining if Mace genuinly defeated Sidious or not, how can it not matter if Sidious lost intentionally? XD Please elaborate.

 

And yes you are a joke, the way you stubbornly twist everything that can bring another Jedi or Sith above Revan. It's an obsession with you.

 

Your last line is yet another example. You have nothing to base such a definite statement on. Sidious? Yes. Mace? No.

Edited November 24, 2012 by Andge

lol, in determining if Mace genuinly defeated Sidious or not, how can it not matter if Sidious lost intentionally? XD Please elaborate.

 

And yes you are a joke, the way you stubbornly twist everything that can bring another Jedi or Sith above Revan. It's an obsession with you.

 

Your last line is yet another example. You have nothing to base such a definite statement on. Sidious? Yes. Mace? No.

 

Let's look at Mace and Sidious.

 

Mace Windu won the duel. This is attributed to Vaapad and Shatterpoint. This makes Mace equal to, if not better than, Sidious in Lightsaber skills. One could say that he is holding back, but not with his skill with the blade. Sidious was holding back on his use of his power. If Sidious had used his immense power, he would have won for sure. But he didn't. He couldn't kill Mace, that was reserved for Anakin. Anakin had to kill someone close to him to progress further down the path of the Dark Side. So Sidious had to keep up with Mace Windu until Anakin arrived. Once Anakin arrived, Sidious was disarmed. But this was due to Mace Windu seeing Sidious' fear and using it against him.

 

Mace Windu won. He won the Lightsaber duel, but in a full contest, Sidious would win.

 

How about we note that the author of the article in question is merely stating an opinion. Something he clearly points out. While he made a good case, George said he won. This doesn't mean that Sidious didn't feign weakness, he did, but only at the end of the duel. This was to get Anakin's sympathy and further manipulate him.

 

Overall, Mace Windu and Sidious were roughly equal in that duel.

 

Edit: And the writer isn't even an official source for canon. His word has literally no bearing on canon. And george said he won so I'm gonna believe the creator over a random blogger.

 

Usually I enjoy a good debate, but this has fallen into a poor attempt at insulting me. A real shame too.

Edited November 24, 2012 by Aurbere

Let's look at Mace and Sidious.

 

Mace Windu won the duel. This is attributed to Vaapad and Shatterpoint. This makes Mace equal to, if not better than, Sidious in Lightsaber skills. One could say that he is holding back, but not with his skill with the blade. Sidious was holding back on his use of his power. If Sidious had used his immense power, he would have won for sure. But he didn't. He couldn't kill Mace, that was reserved for Anakin. Anakin had to kill someone close to him to progress further down the path of the Dark Side. So Sidious had to keep up with Mace Windu until Anakin arrived. Once Anakin arrived, Sidious was disarmed. But this was due to Mace Windu seeing Sidious' fear and using it against him.

 

Mace Windu won. He won the Lightsaber duel, but in a full contest, Sidious would win.

 

How about we note that the author of the article in question is merely stating an opinion. Something he clearly points out. While he made a good case, George said he won. This doesn't mean that Sidious didn't feign weakness, he did, but only at the end of the duel. This was to get Anakin's sympathy and further manipulate him.

 

Overall, Mace Windu and Sidious were roughly equal in that duel.

 

Edit: And the writer isn't even an official source for canon. His word has literally no bearing on canon. And george said he won so I'm gonna believe the creator over a random blogger.

 

Usually I enjoy a good debate, but this has fallen into a poor attempt at insulting me. A real shame too.

 

Ya thinking back on that now after putting up the article, i'll take George's word over what is put.

God you two are a joke! XD

 

We're the jokes? look who has to insult the people he argues with for no actual reason.

 

Oh and if you don't want to take the Lucas word on the BLU-RAY Revenge of the Sith edition with the multiple commentators, then go read the Revenge of the Sith novelisation.

 

I'm done with this thread, it isn't even worthy of mature debate, it's completely devolved into 'fanboiz vs h8rz' and regardless of the fact that I am the very person who created it, my guidance is entirely ignored and absolutely any excuse or strawman argument is made to champion the Revan cause and some even debate the very rules themselves and any argument on the neutral side is met with pathetic statements like 'but that's not really true is it?' or 'But your canon isn't as canon as my canon is, so my canon>your canon' or just outright 'you're biased', 'you're a hater'.

 

My word...

Edited November 24, 2012 by Rayla_Felana

Ya thinking back on that now after putting up the article, i'll take George's word over what is put.

 

And that's the thing. Unless Chee or George says Sidious won, then Mace won. People think that because Sidious survived, Mace lost. Death is not the only means for victory. Was the exile of the original Dark Jedi after the Hundred Years Darkness a loss for the Jedi?

 

Off-track, I know. The fact is, I trust George over a random blogger.

We're the jokes? look who has to pathetically insult the people he argues with for no actual reason.

 

Go grow up and then come back.

 

Oh and if you don't want to take the Lucas word on the BLU-RAY Revenge of the Sith edition with the multiple commentators, then go read the Revenge of the Sith novelisation.

 

I'm done with this thread, it isn't even worthy of mature debate, it's completely devolved into 'fanboiz vs h8rz' and regardless of the fact that I am the very person who created it, absolutely any excuse or strawman argument is made to champion the Revan cause and some even debate the very rules itself and any argument on the neutral is met with pathetic statements like 'but that's not really true is it?' or 'But your canon isn't as canon as my canon is, so my canon>your canon'.

 

My word.

 

I have to agree. If it's any consolation to you, I never posted my top ten so I had planned to get things away from the Revan thing and post my top 10.

In an attempt to get the thread back on track, I have carefully crafted my top ten list of non-movie characters. While some may not be truly accurate, I will attempt to follow canon as best I can.

 

1. Jacen Solo/Darth Caedus

2. Kyp Durron

3. Jaina Solo

4. Mara Jade Skywalker

5. Kyle Katarn

6. Ben Skywalker

7. Darth Plagueis/Exar Kun

8. Darth Nihilus

9. Darth Tenebrous

10. Darth Traya/Nomi Sunrider/ Meetra Surik

 

It's probably not totally accurate, but I think it's pretty good.

 

Edit: I totally forgot Satele. Mark her up at the number eight or seven.

Edited November 24, 2012 by Aurbere

In an attempt to get the thread back on track, I have carefully crafted my top ten list of non-movie characters. While some may not be truly accurate, I will attempt to follow canon as best I can.

 

1. Jacen Solo/Darth Caedus

2. Kyp Durron

3. Jaina Solo

4. Mara Jade Skywalker

5. Kyle Katarn

6. Ben Skywalker

7. Darth Plagueis/Exar Kun

8. Darth Nihilus

9. Darth Tenebrous

10. Darth Traya/Nomi Sunrider/ Meetra Surik

 

It's probably not totally accurate, but I think it's pretty good.

 

Edit: I totally forgot Satele. Mark her up at the number eight or seven.

 

Very interesting. I don't think I could make a TOTALLY canon-supported top ten. Maybe top 5...

 

I know you said that you wanted to get away from the Revan thing, but something you've said here has confused me. You list Surik as a possible top ten - yet you've said (I thought) that her and Revan were very much similar in power. Do you think Revan and Meetra are near the same power-wise? If so, then wouldn't Revan be at least top 25 (according to your scale)? I'm sorry I had to bring Revan back into this, but it really is an honest question. This isn't something I'm gonna debate, I'm simply asking for you opinion.

Very interesting. I don't think I could make a TOTALLY canon-supported top ten. Maybe top 5...

 

I know you said that you wanted to get away from the Revan thing, but something you've said here has confused me. You list Surik as a possible top ten - yet you've said (I thought) that her and Revan were very much similar in power. Do you think Revan and Meetra are near the same power-wise? If so, then wouldn't Revan be at least top 25 (according to your scale)? I'm sorry I had to bring Revan back into this, but it really is an honest question. This isn't something I'm gonna debate, I'm simply asking for you opinion.

 

I listed Traya, Nomi and Meetra at the number ten spot based off of their ability to use Sever Force. Nomi being the greatest user of Sever Force amongst them imo. If I had to put Revan somewhere, I would put him around the number 15 spot. This is including movie characters, but Revan gets in between number 13 and 11, along with Malgus and maybe Jadus or a member of the Banite line or Dark Council, without any movie characters.

 

On my list of course.

 

Now I would say that Revan and Meetra are fairly close to each other in power. I think Revan would be more skilled with the Lightsaber, but I think Meetra is more powerful seeing as how she has Force Enlightenment and mastered the Light Side to a greater extent than Revan. In a battle between the two, I would have to say that they are quite even, but Surik would win in the end via Sever Force.

 

Edit: Making a canon-supported list without the movie characters can be difficult, as there are many Force users that could make it into a single spot.

Edited November 24, 2012 by Aurbere

 

I'm done with this thread, it isn't even worthy of mature debate, it's completely devolved into 'fanboiz vs h8rz' and regardless of the fact that I am the very person who created it, my guidance is entirely ignored and absolutely any excuse or strawman argument is made to champion the Revan cause and some even debate the very rules themselves and any argument on the neutral side is met with pathetic statements like 'but that's not really true is it?' or 'But your canon isn't as canon as my canon is, so my canon>your canon' or just outright 'you're biased', 'you're a hater'.

 

My word...

 

Well perhaps the tone went that way because you, the author of the thread, started off by bashing Revan and pre-insulting anyone who might disagree with you. You and Aurbere just invite this stuff with your arrogant and dismissive tone towards anyone who disagrees with you. Then you play the victim when people respond in-kind. Hell, I generally agree with you guys, and I find your comments and attitude smug.

Well perhaps the tone went that way because you, the author of the thread, started off by bashing Revan and pre-insulting anyone who might disagree with you. You and Aurbere just invite this stuff with your arrogant and dismissive tone towards anyone who disagrees with you. Then you play the victim when people respond in-kind. Hell, I generally agree with you guys, and I find your comments and attitude smug.

 

You're reading into something that isn't there, until of course such a tone is used in turn, I did NOT start bashing Revan, people came in with the 'Revan mastered this that and the other' when the canon suggests no such thing.

 

Seriously, you need to move on, whatever vendetta you have, get over it.

You're reading into something that isn't there, until of course such a tone is used in turn, I did NOT start bashing Revan, people came in with the 'Revan mastered this that and the other' when the canon suggests no such thing.

 

Seriously, you need to move on, whatever vendetta you have, get over it.

Before anyone else so much as mentioned Revan, Aurbere said this:

No movie characters huh? OK then. I don't really know where to place certain individuals. but I'm sure someone is going to have Revan at the top of their list:confused:

 

And then you jumped in with this...

Revan when he was a Jedi Knight was nowhere near the Top 10, Darth Revan wasn't close either, and Reborn Revan isn't even a Jedi or a Sith any ways, so I really don't get why.

 

And then as people took exception to your millionth jab at Revan, you pulled your normal I know everything, my opinion is canon routine. And you wonder why people get annoyed. Yeah, it's a real mystery.

Edited November 24, 2012 by SoonerJBD

And then as people took exception to your millionth jab at Revan, you pulled your normal I know everything, my opinion is canon routine. And you wonder why people get annoyed. Yeah, it's a real mystery.

 

I can easily pick out ten characters that take Revan any day of the week in the powers and abilities category, it's as easy as that, honestly.

 

Oh and I pull an I know everything routine? really? so instead of going 'I think' in a CANON debate I stated that by the rules of this thread, canonically Revan doesn't get into the top ten at all, I'm being a know-it-all and claiming my OPINION in a thread about CANON FACTS, is being represented as canon? there is no opinion, you can have an opinion so far as to where there isn't concrete canon evidence to suggest 'A, B or C', beyond that it is a fruitless and nonsensical move to try and argue an opinion in a canonical debate.

 

Take that in whatever way pleases or displeases you, frankly I'm at the point of not caring any longer. Anyway I believe I am contradicting my earlier statement, so I will leave this post as is.

Edited November 24, 2012 by Rayla_Felana

Before anyone else so much as mentioned Revan, Aurbere said this:

 

 

And then you jumped in with this...

 

 

And then as people took exception to your millionth jab at Revan, you pulled your normal I know everything, my opinion is canon routine. And you wonder why people get annoyed. Yeah, it's a real mystery.

 

It was a joke, but, at the time, I wouldn't have been surprised to see it.

 

I use emoticons(or whatever you call the smilies) to make jokes.

Could I just say something about this whole "where should Revan be canonically" thing. Many complain how Revan doesn't get into the Top 10. In a comparitive sense, there are quite a few people who are more powerful than Revan. So Revan really wouldn't make it into the Top 10. But here's a question: WHO CARES? Ideally, Revan would make it into the Top 20. THAT is good, no, that is great. Out of the thousands of Force users across time, for Revan to place into the Top 20 is excellent. So he doesn't make it into the Top 10, it doesn't matter. He's still powerful in his own right, and makes a play for the Top 20.

1 Jaina Solo

2 Darth Caedus

3 Exar Kun

4 Darth Nihilus

5 Emperor Vitiate

6 Ulic Qel-Droma (Seemingly lost amongst the God Jedi/Sith and Fanboyisms)

7 Darth Bane

8 Meetra Surik

9 Darth Krayt (One of my favorites)

10 Darth Nihl (Not that I think hes worthy of being here really but I like him and hes lost in a mess of Gods)

 

I left off a few names probably more worthy but I did it for sake of Flames and Cycled never ending Debat of Opinions .

Edited November 24, 2012 by mefit

For me the Emperor and Nihilus are tied at the top. Darth Bane at 2nd, and Caedus at 3rd. Sorry but Revan doesnt even make my top 10, sure you played as him in a game but honestly. And for the arguements in general that are saying "this guy cant be best cause this guy killed him" Just because your more powerful then somebody else doesnt mean they cant beat you. The main situation I'm thinking of here being Nihilus and the Exile. You honestly cant argue without looking rather stupid that the Exile was more powerful then Nihilus just because she beat him.

Could I just say something about this whole "where should Revan be canonically" thing. Many complain how Revan doesn't get into the Top 10. In a comparitive sense, there are quite a few people who are more powerful than Revan. So Revan really wouldn't make it into the Top 10. But here's a question: WHO CARES? Ideally, Revan would make it into the Top 20. THAT is good, no, that is great. Out of the thousands of Force users across time, for Revan to place into the Top 20 is excellent. So he doesn't make it into the Top 10, it doesn't matter. He's still powerful in his own right, and makes a play for the Top 20.

 

I agree with that. Which is why these debates that turn into personal bashing are all the more stupid. Rayla doesn't get that tone matters. When you state your opinion so forcefully that you insult the intelligence of anyone who disagrees with you, you are going to upset people. And when you overstate your case, you also invite criticism. Aurbere, I will give you credit that you don't take it as far as Rayla does. There is a difference between canon fact and an opinion you develop based upon canon fact. I don't get why that is hard to understand.

Rayla doesn't get that tone matters.

 

There is no tone until someone starts using exactly that to me, if MasterMe can understand that why can't you?

 

Honestly this is turning into blatant harassment, I have attempted to end this 'conversation' four times now, each time you have simply returned and gone on and on about 'tone', if you don't like me, don't read my posts, capiche?

Edited November 24, 2012 by Rayla_Felana

There is no tone until someone starts using exactly that to me, if MasterMe can understand that why can't you?

 

Honestly this is turning into blatant harassment, I have attempted to end this 'conversation' four times now, each time you have simply returned and gone on and on about 'tone', if you don't like me, don't read my posts, capiche?

 

I wasn't aware you had to have the last word. My bad.

There is no tone until someone starts using exactly that to me, if MasterMe can understand that why can't you?

 

Honestly this is turning into blatant harassment, I have attempted to end this 'conversation' four times now, each time you have simply returned and gone on and on about 'tone', if you don't like me, don't read my posts, capiche?

 

She does have a point.

 

Although I disagree with much of what she's said, she has honestly tried to end this for a while. So let's quit it.... for now.

Could I just say something about this whole "where should Revan be canonically" thing. Many complain how Revan doesn't get into the Top 10. In a comparitive sense, there are quite a few people who are more powerful than Revan. So Revan really wouldn't make it into the Top 10. But here's a question: WHO CARES? Ideally, Revan would make it into the Top 20. THAT is good, no, that is great. Out of the thousands of Force users across time, for Revan to place into the Top 20 is excellent. So he doesn't make it into the Top 10, it doesn't matter. He's still powerful in his own right, and makes a play for the Top 20.

 

I could totally agree with this. Top 20 is still powerful.

 

I forget; is this list excluding movie characters?

I could totally agree with this. Top 20 is still powerful.

 

I forget; is this list excluding movie characters?

 

Yes. The list still excludes movie characters. Now if I were to place Revan on the list with movie characters, he would make a strong candidate for the number 18 spot, but would most likely sit at 19 or 20. Which is good.

Yes. The list still excludes movie characters. Now if I were to place Revan on the list with movie characters, he would make a strong candidate for the number 18 spot, but would most likely sit at 19 or 20. Which is good.

 

Alright. That's cool. I'm glad we can generally agree on that.

I'm Sorry. This has gotten beyond a joke, ive re read this thread quite a lot now and I have to chime in...

 

You keep referring to Rayla as no better than a Revan Fanboy/girl, but there are massive differences between her and the revan fanboys.

She backs up her arguments with actual canon, not the bull **** "Mastered Light and Dark" like the revan lovers, she uses facts that aren't even debatable, and i think thats why you dislike her. Most of the things she has said in this thread have been correct, canon arguments. While she may be an Exile fangirl (And trust me, she is) it doesnt make her arguments any less valid.

The fact that even after she said shed asked 4 times for you to stop this conversation, you STILL had to have the last word, shows how truely hypocritical you are.

 

Just my two cents.