Hi,

On my first character and play through. Currently a lvl 39 Commando focused on dps gunnery. I've been enjoying things generally and probably done half a dozen or more flashpoints and many heroics. So by no means brilliant, but generally doing ok.

Anyway, I just did a flashpoint as dps and died in a mob engagement. To which one of the group asked if it was my first time. I said yes to which the player lul and said they could tell. So I gave the polite response of sorry and they then went on to say I need to do cc. Which I understand to mean crowd control and that I needed to do that before fighting. Thing is, what exactly does that mean for me? I have concussive force and a cryo grenade. But as the mob that killed me were at range, what did I do wrong?

Generally the majority of the time I have good time with the groupings I get dropped in, but on the other side I do seem to sometimes meet "experts" telling me how to play, which is fine if I learn and in worst case some folks doing raging at me for not playing exactly how they want me to! But either way I'll keep pushing on through and hopefully get better the more I play (dropping about 40 hours a week into the game). So thoughts and advice for a new comer is welcome.

"CC" in a flashpoint usually refers to minute-long effects that break on damage, so in your case that would be concussive round, one of only 2 abilities that work on both droids and organics. Try to announce before you plan to use it or it will be wasted.

I'm not completely sure what this had to do with the situation at hand, given the sparse details. At level 39 you should be doing maelstrom prison or starting with collicoid war games ? CCWG has a somewhat difficult phase that is made much easier by using the aforementioned CCs (and by understanding that interrupting enemy casting is good and attacking enemies that are immune to damage is bad )

Anyway, as a commando, if you somehow get focus fired by ranged enemies, your best bet is probably to hide behind a pillar/crate/corner/whatever, heal up, and hope the tank notices all the enemies chasing after you. You shouldn't be afraid to get close enough to use your cryo grenade against single enemies, though.

Yeah, this one was CCWG. Funny enough I was just thinking about concussive round after posting. Its something I do use, but I definitely need to get used to using it more in a strategic way. Thanks

Btw we did complete the flashpoint fine and I did some good at least by using concussive force on the enemies on the bridge areas where you have the force fields. Sending them hurtling over the edges saved the group quite a bit of time and effort - loved doing that!

You haven't given a lot of details about a specific case, so as some general advice I'll agree with the above poster and say that CCing is good, and you should announce when you're doing it and maybe mark the target with a marker that doesn't seem to indicate "attack this please" (like target, gun, and flame seem to- I prefer to mark CCs with lightning, cog, star, maybe shield). These crowd control effects are broken by any damage to the CC'd enemy, so watch out when using area attacks or if you have auto-target on.

Other things you can do to help reduce your chances of dying to mobs is to kill weakest targets first (work your way up from weakest to strongest), let the tank hit groups first so the enemies are focused on the tank while you pew pew them, and if you do find something attacking you either use line of sight (LoS, where you move somewhere the enemy can't shoot at you like the above poster said) or run towards the tank so the tank can hit it and get aggro on it.

You seem to have the right attitude, so stick with it and try not to let any jerks "raging" at you bother you. I still remember when I was first asked to use CC and didn't know what it was...

Oh, so how do you set markers on them? Never seen that done yet. Is this marker something that shows on the map or actually on the target?

Target the mob. Rt-click on the target window and one of the options will be to set a marker (choices are in pull-down menu).

You can do this in PvP, too, and please do when you see a healer on the other side! It calls DPS' attention to it and suggests that they burn that player down first. In PvE these can be used to mark kill order on multi mob kills, but mostly in FPs they are used to denote CC targets.

There is also a way to quickslot this, I think, but I've never figured it out myself.

Thanks for the tip

There's a lot of depth to battles isn't there, or at least more so than first meets the eye. I can see why some spend years perfecting engagements and battle techniques. Good stuff.

200 hours of game time and feel like I'm at the beginning!!

Seeing how other posters covered your initial question about cc and you've learned how to mark targets, allow me give an answer to this one:

But as the mob that killed me were at range, what did I do wrong?

In a situation where a rdps gets killed by a ranged mob the "blame" is, most likely, on the rdps themselves. Several things can be concluded from "I got killed by a ranged mob":

1) The tank did not pay much attention to said mob and hadn't established a proper amount of threat on it,

2) The ranged mob was, in all likelihood, a "gold star" level foe,

3) The RDPS did not follow kill order and/or target of their DPS teammate,

4) The healer would have eventually built up enough threat on said mob and got attacked/killed.

So, what you did wrong was not following kill order (weakest to strongest). The tank was wrong not to pick up that ranged mob. Those kinds of mobs are the most dangerous mobs as far as healers are concerned and a good tank gives them proper attention. However, with your mistake of not following kill order you have inadvertently saved the team from wiping completely (see #4). Because of your tank's lack of attention (#1), your healer was put in danger. You attacking that mob (#3) and subsequently getting got (#2) actually covered the tank's mistake and saved the group from wiping completely.

It's better to sacrifice a dps and live through the encounter that have everyone killed.

That said, you as RDPS are in a uniquely favourable situation of having a clear view of the fight. This enables you to see the tank's mistakes even before they do and time to do something about them; be that CC or building up threat on gold mob so it doesn't rape your healer. This is what makes a difference between a DPS that derps around looking for big numbers on his screen and a DPS that actually pays attention to their surroundings and adopts to them. You have a good start here and if you keep your healer safe, even up to the point of you getting killed - they will love you. After revive, you both can bash the tank for playing badly.

Lol, great post. I think this fully echoes my thoughts on depth!

I'm really glad I aired this with you all, its given me plenty of food for thought. I think one of the things I'll need to also try and adopt is a cool collected mindset, which for me will be easier said than done in some hectic battle scenarios!!! I'll be trying my best at times not to just lose sight of the overall strategy. Of course much of that too will be aided or hindered by how the other group members engage.

Very interesting and adding to my perception of things. Thanks!

EDIT: I remember last night at one point I started to lose the plot and ended up hitting space bar a couple of times by mistake. My group must have just been thinking, ***, why is this guy jumping up and down in the middle of battle lol. Still it made me laugh a hell of a lot and still tickles me now. And at the end of the day, for a game to be giving me that, has got to be a good thing!

Jumping in battle is cool.

I make my shadow tank jump and launch Project at a mob as opener. Jump and - bam! Mob gets a rock in the face. Or a droid, teehee. Force Pull is another great opportunity to jump because it has both you and the pulled mob in the air at the same time. But the thing I love most about shadow tank is the Spinnig Kick. I can run in, jump and roundhouse kick a mob in mid-air. Timing Spinning kick with Force Pull will make people drool in jealousy.

JK's Force Leap is just awesome when activated from a jump and really shines when you're jumping from a higher position. First boss in S&V gives you the opportunity to jump right back onto him from mid-air. Can't beat aerial acrobatics. We need more jumping.

One of my most epic jumps was at the start of Kademimu flashpoint. Guildie was tanking with her guardian and pushed the first droid off the ledge just as I used Leap. Subsequent freefall resulted in a death but it was terrifyingly awesome as it happened unexpectedly. XD

Personally, I see SWTOR's "crowd control" rather as an "person control", thus it should be rather abbreviated as "PC" to reflect that correctly, but nobody does it.

Because SWTOR's CC is rather person-orientied; there are not that many crowd-oriented "control-effects" in SWTOR; as far as I know.

Plus, these CC effects are divided into "mezz", "stun", "root" etc. .

One of my most epic jumps was at the start of Kademimu flashpoint. Guildie was tanking with her guardian and pushed the first droid off the ledge just as I used Leap. Subsequent freefall resulted in a death but it was terrifyingly awesome as it happened unexpectedly. XD

Did that on Maelstrom (?) Station...long run back.

Personally, I see SWTOR's "crowd control" rather as an "person control", thus it should be rather abbreviated as "PC" to reflect that correctly, but nobody does it.

Because SWTOR's CC is rather person-orientied; there are not that many crowd-oriented "control-effects" in SWTOR; as far as I know.

 

Plus, these CC effects are divided into "mezz", "stun", "root" etc. .

My use is very limited I use most of the time solo , which it is great then .. if i get to many etc .. in ops if its needed the group may have major issue later on in the ops on the harder stuff etc . I'm glad its there . but most don't use it but like you said or how i do .. ..

Jumping in battle is cool.

 

I make my shadow tank jump and launch Project at a mob as opener. Jump and - bam! Mob gets a rock in the face. Or a droid, teehee. Force Pull is another great opportunity to jump because it has both you and the pulled mob in the air at the same time. But the thing I love most about shadow tank is the Spinnig Kick. I can run in, jump and roundhouse kick a mob in mid-air. Timing Spinning kick with Force Pull will make people drool in jealousy.

 

JK's Force Leap is just awesome when activated from a jump and really shines when you're jumping from a higher position. First boss in S&V gives you the opportunity to jump right back onto him from mid-air. Can't beat aerial acrobatics. We need more jumping.

 

One of my most epic jumps was at the start of Kademimu flashpoint. Guildie was tanking with her guardian and pushed the first droid off the ledge just as I used Leap. Subsequent freefall resulted in a death but it was terrifyingly awesome as it happened unexpectedly. XD

what i have run with is most of the pulls in the raider HM, i love it when the tanks pull non stop when i heal it no one ever die .. i love that one pull just before the first boss, i tell the tank go in you wont die he doesn't when I heal it .. and that boss is so much fun to heal , i love it when both dogs attack me .. no stress makes me a better more alert healer .. ..

Lol, great post. I think this fully echoes my thoughts on depth!

 

I'm really glad I aired this with you all, its given me plenty of food for thought. I think one of the things I'll need to also try and adopt is a cool collected mindset, which for me will be easier said than done in some hectic battle scenarios!!! I'll be trying my best at times not to just lose sight of the overall strategy. Of course much of that too will be aided or hindered by how the other group members engage.

 

Very interesting and adding to my perception of things. Thanks!

 

EDIT: I remember last night at one point I started to lose the plot and ended up hitting space bar a couple of times by mistake. My group must have just been thinking, ***, why is this guy jumping up and down in the middle of battle lol. Still it made me laugh a hell of a lot and still tickles me now. And at the end of the day, for a game to be giving me that, has got to be a good thing!

If you have a long CC that works on both Organics and Driods it makes you more flexible and with carfeful planning makes it a bit easier to attempt heroic 2'S on your own. Unfortuatly my agent only has a long Droid CC which makes it hard to do most heroic's 2's. Also when using CC's you need to be wary not to wake them up with a AOE attack also bear in mind any aware any area of attack abilities your companion has will also trigger CC's mobs to wake early if in range, so turn these off aswell. What is useful sometimes is to do a pushback ability if you have it on a CC'd foe to get them out of the way, knockbacks do not break CC. Note if you CC another mob while one is already CC'd the first one will wake only one long one at a time.

My favorite is Athis and now Red Reaper with my assassin and operative...stealth in and sleep mobs to run right by them, though not something my sage or trooper can do (triggers combat).

Can't wait til I have a character who can run CCWG and shove all the mobs off the cliffs.

Oh, so how do you set markers on them? Never seen that done yet. Is this marker something that shows on the map or actually on the target?

To quickslot them, go to Preferences > Key bindings > Targeting > (the last 8 options are the target markers).

Personally I use:

Purple Gear: shift + z

Cyan Lightning: shift + x

Yellow Reticle: shift + c

Red Flame: shift + v

Gold Star: shift + b

If you have a long CC that works on both Organics and Driods it makes you more flexible and with carfeful planning makes it a bit easier to attempt heroic 2'S on your own. Unfortuatly my agent only has a long Droid CC which makes it hard to do most heroic's 2's. Also when using CC's you need to be wary not to wake them up with a AOE attack also bear in mind any aware any area of attack abilities your companion has will also trigger CC's mobs to wake early if in range, so turn these off aswell. What is useful sometimes is to do a pushback ability if you have it on a CC'd foe to get them out of the way, knockbacks do not break CC. Note if you CC another mob while one is already CC'd the first one will wake only one long one at a time.

Great bits of info there. Appreciated! I may well try the next HEROIC 2+ on my own. Either way will be practicing a bit of cc on tonight's bounty hunting mission.

EDIT: cheers Skodan too, good to know.

One more comment regarding cc:

Be careful not to attack an enemy that one of your group members has cc'd (the sort that prevents the mob from doing anything for 60 seconds unless someone attacks it), and be careful not to use area abilities too close to enemies that

are cc'd or you may break them out of the cc.

Ideally your group member would say in chat that they're going to cc such-and-such enemy, and maybe even put a mark on it (as discussed earlier in the thread). But you can learn to recognize mobs that are cc'd by others in case you have more taciturn group members:

If a mob (any) is floating in the air spinning helplessly, it has been cc'd by a sage

If a mob (any) is sleeping, head tilted downwards and rocking, it's been cc'd by a commando (like you!)

If a droid looks electrified and unable to act, it's been cc'd by a gunslinger, scoundrel, or sentinel

If an organic looks like it has a headache and is unable to act, it's been cc'd by a shadow or a scoundrel

In every case, the mob will be at full heath. If someone stuns (short duration, usually 4 seconds, doesn't break on damage) something, you can of course keep attacking it.

Anyway, you don't need to know who did it, the short answer is that if an enemy is at full health and unable to act, leave it alone.

What is useful sometimes is to do a pushback ability if you have it on a CC'd foe to get them out of the way, knockbacks do not break CC.

Uh, what? Knockbacks absolutely break CC. 100% of the time. I have never seen a knockback ability not break CC. Unless there is some specific knockback I'm unaware of that doesn't, but Force Wave does, Concussion Charge does, Pulse Detonator does, Force Push does...what knockback are you thinking of that doesn't?

Uh, what? Knockbacks absolutely break CC. 100% of the time. I have never seen a knockback ability not break CC. Unless there is some specific knockback I'm unaware of that doesn't, but Force Wave does, Concussion Charge does, Pulse Detonator does, Force Push does...what knockback are you thinking of that doesn't?

I was thinking all knock backs did damage.

Uh, what? Knockbacks absolutely break CC. 100% of the time. I have never seen a knockback ability not break CC. Unless there is some specific knockback I'm unaware of that doesn't, but Force Wave does, Concussion Charge does, Pulse Detonator does, Force Push does...what knockback are you thinking of that doesn't?

Hhm No sure then, but when I have done the pluse wave knockback thing on my smuggler/agent it did not break CC, maybe it breaks your own CC but if kncoking back somebody else's CC it does not. Unless there is something in the skill tree that prevents it waking a CC'd mob then?.

Been practising crowd control and now loving it.

Funny thing is, I also tried a fp last night and felt I was for once playing at least on par if not better than the other members in the group for the first time. It does make me wonder how many others are like I was, but have never bothered to find out.

So big thanks to all, you've helped me on the right path!