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Five steps to make PvP more enjoyable and rewarding


Monterone

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There are many, many good ideas on these forums that I wish the developers looked towards in the past for inspiration. And while overall, the balance seems to be getting further away from where we all wish it were it seems, at times there are moments when I get the feeling it's not all over yet and there may yet come fixes and balancing that would make it worth-while to stick around longer.

 

With that in mind I'll list 5 things that I believe would immensely improve the PvP experience and get people to come back, spend more time in WZs and level their alts for PvP.

 

 

1) Remove Recruit gear from the game. There is no need for this. The gear gap is too wide and spending time redesigning it is a wasted effort -- scrap it.

 

2) Hand out a full set of BM gear at 50, the way Recruit is handed out currently. PvP should be about competition and skill, not about a mindless grind that can take 2-3 months, more if you have an average lifestyle. The difference between BM and WH still rewards the player for actively PvPing by giving a few percent more in performance. In addition to that, most BM geared players won't be augmented any more until they get WH, so some gap will still be there.

 

In addition to this, add a hidden stat to all NEW PvP armor, starting with the new free BM sets: 50% reduction on bonus damage and healing (maybe even armor rating) in Operations and Flashpoints ONLY. You enter an ops or a fp with your new free shiny set of BM armor, your effectiveness is cut in half. However, it will still make you viable for doing lvl 50 dailies and other quest content. Or remove the damage and healing bonus completely in ops and fps, that armor should not be worn in there. Make sure everyone knows this happens via a pop-up window.

 

3) Implement a 1500 Ranked WZ Comms limit on all PvP gear, meaning those EWH weapons and offhands are now 1500 ranked comms. Regular WH weapons at 1k. ALL armor at 1.2k equally. All other accessories 1k even.

 

There is no reason anyone should spend more than 2-3 days on getting a single piece of PvP gear. If you think PvP is about the grind you don't get PvP.

 

4) Remove inventory caps on WZ comms limits. Remove them completely and start rewarding your PvPers for doing what they love, not punishing them for it by deciding when they can buy something or not. If one wished to PvP from level 10 all the way up to 50, and save up for a half of the WH set right at 50 -- why not allow them? They put the time and the effort in and should be rewarded by being competitive when they reach 50. Reward your players and they will reward you.

 

In fact, if you combine 3 and 4, you can remove ranked comms completely and revert everything back to just WZ comms with no cap limit. Simple and easy.

 

5) Fix the new 1.4 memory leak and increase WZ performance. Don't know how to help you here.

 

 

I think if you implement these changes as a set of improvements, you would truly bring back some of the lost PvPers and create a much more enjoyable experience for current and new customers. The gap between players would lessen a bit and PvP would become more competitive and strategy based, on a more consistent basis.

 

Players would also take the time to dust off and outfit most if not all of their alts, and while doing so would not only spend more time playing but would learn new classes better in PvP and increase the overall skill cap of the player base -- less crying, more knowledge, more quality PvP.

 

It may actually motivate players to create that new class they've always wanted to play at 50 but were not looking forward to the grind and massacre in order to get to that point.

 

I'm sure some will not agree, but please let's keep it civil and let us give some input for the devs -- perhaps they will listen to some of it.

 

 

TLDR -- don't be lazy; if you're not here to read, why are you here? ;)

Edited by Monterone
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You have 4 unnecessary steps.

 

1) Remove gear-based PvP.

 

The end. This pretty much solves all of the other issues you listed. PvP doesn't need to be a completely separate gear grind. It's just another MMO time sink that forces players who want to enjoy both aspects of the game to grind out another set of gear.

 

Allow players to use whatever moddable shell they want, and have armorings/mods available for purchase so that players can customize stats to their liking with reasonable thresholds in mind. Tanks should be able to mod for higher HP, while DPS should be able to mod for higher damage. Put Alacrity stats on healer gear so that it actually means something.

 

Keep the token system for unique PvP moddable armor shells for aesthetics only! Level the playing field.

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There are many, many good ideas on these forums that I wish the developers looked towards in the past for inspiration. And while overall, the balance seems to be getting further away from where we all wish it were it seems, at times there are moments when I get the feeling it's not all over yet and there may yet come fixes and balancing that would make it worth-while to stick around longer.

 

With that in mind I'll list 5 things that I believe would immensely improve the PvP experience and get people to come back, spend more time in WZs and level their alts for PvP.

 

 

1) Remove Recruit gear from the game. There is no need for this. The gear gap is too wide and spending time redesigning it is a wasted effort -- scrap it.

 

2) Hand out a full set of BM gear at 50, the way Recruit is handed out currently. PvP should be about competition and skill, not about a mindless grind that can take 2-3 months, more if you have an average lifestyle. The difference between BM and WH still rewards the player for actively PvPing by giving a few percent more in performance. In addition to that, most BM geared players won't be augmented any more until they get WH, so some gap will still be there.

 

In addition to this, add a hidden stat to all NEW PvP armor, starting with the new free BM sets: 50% reduction on bonus damage and healing (maybe even armor rating) in Operations and Flashpoints ONLY. You enter an ops or a fp with your new free shiny set of BM armor, your effectiveness is cut in half. However, it will still make you viable for doing lvl 50 dailies and other quest content. Or remove the damage and healing bonus completely in ops and fps, that armor should not be worn in there. Make sure everyone knows this happens via a pop-up window.

 

3) Implement a 1500 Ranked WZ Comms limit on all PvP gear, meaning those EWH weapons and offhands are now 1500 ranked comms. Regular WH weapons at 1k. ALL armor at 1.2k equally. All other accessories 1k even.

 

There is no reason anyone should spend more than 2-3 days on getting a single piece of PvP gear. If you think PvP is about the grind you don't get PvP.

 

4) Remove inventory caps on WZ comms limits. Remove them completely and start rewarding your PvPers for doing what they love, not punishing them for it by deciding when they can buy something or not. If one wished to PvP from level 10 all the way up to 50, and save up for a half of the WH set right at 50 -- why not allow them? They put the time and the effort in and should be rewarded by being competitive when they reach 50. Reward your players and they will reward you.

 

In fact, if you combine 3 and 4, you can remove ranked comms completely and revert everything back to just WZ comms with no cap limit. Simple and easy.

 

5) Fix the new 1.4 memory leak and increase WZ performance. Don't know how to help you here.

 

 

I think if you implement these changes as a set of improvements, you would truly bring back some of the lost PvPers and create a much more enjoyable experience for current and new customers. The gap between players would lessen a bit and PvP would become more competitive and strategy based, on a more consistent basis.

 

Players would also take the time to dust off and outfit most if not all of their alts, and while doing so would not only spend more time playing but would learn new classes better in PvP and increase the overall skill cap of the player base -- less crying, more knowledge, more quality PvP.

 

It may actually motivate players to create that new class they've always wanted to play at 50 but were not looking forward to the grind and massacre in order to get to that point.

 

I'm sure some will not agree, but please let's keep it civil and let us give some input for the devs -- perhaps they will listen to some of it.

 

 

TLDR -- don't be lazy; if you're not here to read, why are you here? ;)

 

BM gear is about 10% less in terms of stats than WH. Handing out BM gear is ridiculous. The recruit set does its job, it covers the gap between NO GEAR and BM. WH gear is just bragging rights gear, it won't make you that much better in any appreciable way. In fact, there are some stats that are better on the BM mods depending on what you need.

 

I DO agree with removing the limit on comms. I don't see why we have the ridiculously low cap on comms. At least bump it to 3000 WZ comm cap.

Edited by Arkerus
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BM gear is about 10% less in terms of stats than WH. Handing out BM gear is ridiculous. The recruit set does its job, it covers the gap between NO GEAR and BM. WH gear is just bragging rights gear, it won't make you that much better in any appreciable way. In fact, there are some stats that are better on the BM mods depending on what you need.

 

I DO agree with removing the limit on comms. I don't see why we have the ridiculously low cap on comms. At least bump it to 3000 WZ comm cap.

 

I never see anyone who post nonsense like this put on their recruit gear and show us how its done....video demonstrating that gear gap is an non-issue, please

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Should they also hand out a free set of columni? Because if I don't have to progress in pvp I shouldn't be forced to progress to enjoy pve either, right? There's a game where time commitments are irrelevant to your performance, it's called guild wars 2. Have a blast, I sure didn't.

 

I do agree with having the comm cap be much higher though.

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i prefer the gearing system from SWG. dont get me wrong, there was a lot wrong with the way SOE did things, but the gearing system was superb.

 

everything was crafter based. PvE/PvP rewards were unique, deconstructable items that needed to be recrafted to reach their best potential. gearing your toon could take a matter of minutes once you reached max level if you prepared properly.

 

crafter based economy is best economy

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Should they also hand out a free set of columni? Because if I don't have to progress in pvp I shouldn't be forced to progress to enjoy pve either, right? There's a game where time commitments are irrelevant to your performance, it's called guild wars 2. Have a blast, I sure didn't.

 

I do agree with having the comm cap be much higher though.

I enjoy GW2, but even there you just get the PvP gear which can't be used in PvE and you have to aquire your PvE gear to use it.

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Should they also hand out a free set of columni? Because if I don't have to progress in pvp I shouldn't be forced to progress to enjoy pve either, right? There's a game where time commitments are irrelevant to your performance, it's called guild wars 2. Have a blast, I sure didn't.

 

I do agree with having the comm cap be much higher though.

 

That's nonsense. In GW2 only the warzones provide you with a free gear set that has the same stat allocation for everyone, and you can only use that armour in warzones. This provides for the fun and fair pvp matches where skill and spec determines who wins that PVP'ers have been asking for since the early days of WOW. For PvE & Realm vs Realm vs Realm PvP you do need to earn your armour and I dare say it's much harder than in SWTOR where you can get a full set of columni in a day.

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You have 4 unnecessary steps.

 

1) Remove gear-based PvP.

 

The end. This pretty much solves all of the other issues you listed. PvP doesn't need to be a completely separate gear grind. It's just another MMO time sink that forces players who want to enjoy both aspects of the game to grind out another set of gear.

 

Allow players to use whatever moddable shell they want, and have armorings/mods available for purchase so that players can customize stats to their liking with reasonable thresholds in mind. Tanks should be able to mod for higher HP, while DPS should be able to mod for higher damage. Put Alacrity stats on healer gear so that it actually means something.

 

Keep the token system for unique PvP moddable armor shells for aesthetics only! Level the playing field.

 

Thats a nice idea, but why dps should run more dmg?

PvP in this game just exist on DoTs and thats it. Its like a Egoshooter its no skill or what else, its just mindless, and make me remember stupid Nintendo/Gameboy games...Oldschool :confused:

 

They did the same mistake like they did at SWG, they count on kids....dont know if you can make money out of that, but...dont know what to say.

 

You need longer PvP fights, lower the DoT dmg, DoTs were once just a supporter to bite some health, and keep them in combat while they covered around the corner. Next thing are stuns, ...Im 24/7 stunned, and that makes me think about going outside and have fun watching after Woman wasting time by making me belive i got a chance :eek:

 

kk...youre right about having a good setup + skill but no dmg increase for dps (would make it a one hit PvP). Tanks and Heals , do they even exist? A fultime Tank cant take out a fulltime Healer, a fulltime Healer cant take a fulltime Tank...guess thats the only balance we got ingame.

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The new recruit gear isn't all that bad IMO, You'll still get roflstomped buy full war heroes, but it's not the huge gap it was with the Mk-1 gear. And even only playing a couple of hours you can get 1-2 battlemaster pieces a day. Augment those bad boys, and you're good to go.
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I pretty much agree with everyone the OP has to say. Gear is a issue in PVP and I have debunked every counter-argument I came across.

 

I especially agree that there shouldn't be a limit on warzone comms or ranked comms at all. Leveling 1-49 and being able to save up for a lot of WH armor when you hit 50 should be a thing.

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You have 4 unnecessary steps.

 

1) Remove gear-based PvP.

 

The end. This pretty much solves all of the other issues you listed. PvP doesn't need to be a completely separate gear grind. It's just another MMO time sink that forces players who want to enjoy both aspects of the game to grind out another set of gear.

 

Allow players to use whatever moddable shell they want, and have armorings/mods available for purchase so that players can customize stats to their liking with reasonable thresholds in mind. Tanks should be able to mod for higher HP, while DPS should be able to mod for higher damage. Put Alacrity stats on healer gear so that it actually means something.

 

Keep the token system for unique PvP moddable armor shells for aesthetics only! Level the playing field.

 

I like your idea bud, and I think it would be awesome to have a system like that in place.

 

However, I don't think they have the resources to do such a major overhaul, at least not in a time frame that changes have to be made in. When I was thinking of a fix, I was also thinking of a way that it could be implemented by a small focus team, in a short period of time.

 

Removing Recruit gear could be done in one fell swoop. Subbing BM gear as free gear at 50 probably wouldn't take much longer since the system is already in place -- no one will have to work over the weekend for that one. Then you assign one guy to re do all the prices in the database, and guessing that there are only two to three hundred PvP items total, across the eight classes (BM and WH), it would probably take one or two days of work on the database to update the pricing. Removing inventory caps should also be a breeze. Coding the reduction of stats inside ops and fps would probably take the most work, but overall I think 1-4 could all be achieved in one week, with a team of 2-3 people.

 

Thanks for all the comments guys, good info.

Edited by Monterone
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1 - No, the "recruit" set should always be upgraded to keep in par with the current sets. So right now it should be the old Centurion sets. When the full set of E-WH comes out, then the recruit set should be upgraded to BM.

 

2 - No to free BM, just upgrade recruit gear to stay in line and a "Hell no!" to your "hidden stat". PvP armor is already at a disadvantage in PvE settings, there is no point in making it even worse. Unless of course you want to apply a similar "hidden stat" to do the same for PvE armor used in PvP...

 

3 - No, getting commendations is quick and easy. If you do nothing but the dailies and weekly, you will gain 1k of each. Then average in about 75 a game over 21 games (figuring in some wins for weekly) and you get another 1500ish commendations. You can get two BW and 1 WH every two weeks doing almost nothing.

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1 - No, the "recruit" set should always be upgraded to keep in par with the current sets. So right now it should be the old Centurion sets. When the full set of E-WH comes out, then the recruit set should be upgraded to BM.

 

2 - No to free BM, just upgrade recruit gear to stay in line and a "Hell no!" to your "hidden stat". PvP armor is already at a disadvantage in PvE settings, there is no point in making it even worse. Unless of course you want to apply a similar "hidden stat" to do the same for PvE armor used in PvP...

 

3 - No, getting commendations is quick and easy. If you do nothing but the dailies and weekly, you will gain 1k of each. Then average in about 75 a game over 21 games (figuring in some wins for weekly) and you get another 1500ish commendations. You can get two BW and 1 WH every two weeks doing almost nothing.

 

Agreed, it is too easy to get Battlemaster gear even if you only do your dailies. The moment you remove the reward for participation is the moment you lose 99% of the PvP players, at which point we will have to constantly see "Que up for WZ" in the fleet, and thread whining about how few people are actually playing in the warzones.

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1 - No, the "recruit" set should always be upgraded to keep in par with the current sets. So right now it should be the old Centurion sets. When the full set of E-WH comes out, then the recruit set should be upgraded to BM.

 

2 - No to free BM, just upgrade recruit gear to stay in line and a "Hell no!" to your "hidden stat". PvP armor is already at a disadvantage in PvE settings, there is no point in making it even worse. Unless of course you want to apply a similar "hidden stat" to do the same for PvE armor used in PvP...

 

3 - No, getting commendations is quick and easy. If you do nothing but the dailies and weekly, you will gain 1k of each. Then average in about 75 a game over 21 games (figuring in some wins for weekly) and you get another 1500ish commendations. You can get two BW and 1 WH every two weeks doing almost nothing.

 

Yes, I understand the three tiers of PvP armor we've always had, but unfortunately that is part of the reason we are losing fellow players and BW is losing customers. PvE and PvP always had an equal amount of tiers, a mirror system -- but why should the dev team, or us, be stuck on keeping the same broken system until the game shuts down? Hence the suggestions for improvements which could bring some people back and make PvP more fun for current ones. Unfortunately, without other people to play the game with, it's just a really expensive single player game. And to say it's fine as it is, well that's just being stubborn, even when faced with facts that PvP players don't agree with that, about a million of them.

 

And really, why is there even need to make new tiers of PvP armor? This is wasting resources they don't have. Why create EWH weapons? Have two tiers only, one free one you get handed at 50 and another you work towards for 3 weeks to a month to complete a whole set, WH. That's all it should take in my opinion. And leave it at those two sets, polish them, itemize them better and leave them be. They are not to be used in PvE due to the hidden stat limit, so they really are PvP only items that you spend one month per character on. Some folks will still spend a couple of months on full itemized WH. So if you JUST want to PvP, that's a half a year of work and you have 4 characters that are good to use in competitive PvP. They won't lose any customers over this, it's more realistic and promotes playing alts, instead of getting fed up with one character and quitting.

 

Hidden stats on PvE armor as well? Sure, why not. I don't think it necessary but if applying it to only one set would bother people, then it really makes no difference. PvE gear is already bad for PvP and you would get a free BM set, so wearing PvE gear in the WZs would truly be newbish, but why not.

 

The only reason for the idea of hidden stat that makes the armor ineffective in PvE is because BM is really not a bad set, and it's effective for leisurely questing. You don't want people who wear greens hit 50, just go get a free set of BM gear and never do PvP and just use it as an upgrade for PvE. That's why it needs a hidden stat on it -- you get free armor, but you get it for one reason, to use in PvP.

 

PvE, FPs and OPs are about teamwork and story, and enjoying the SW universe, sharing the cool background, figuring out the mechanics of the fights and ultimately being rewarded for it. A gear grind in ops is unavoidable and as an idea still works. Mirroring the system for PvP is amateur, PvP needs no crazy grind, it needs more even tiers of armor that create less of a gap and make everyone competitive.

 

And your last point, your figures make complete sense... if one can play 10 hours a day. I'd say an average it takes a half an hour to get one warzone pop and finish it. That's an hour for two wzs, for an average of 150 comms an hour, using your numbers. 10 hours of play a day, for 1500 comms or 500 ranked. Three days of that, comprising of an average 30 hours (this is someone's full work week at a job), and you can afford the cheapest WH item. The most expensive one will take 7 times longer than that at 3500 ranked comms. So for some people, who average only 75 a game, it will take them 21 days of 10 hours a day to get enough ranked for one EWH weapon. Three weeks of having a job. Factor in quest rewards and it's two weeks of a job. This is getting commendations quick and easy? I think we have different definitions of 'quick and easy'. ;)

 

Thanks for your comments guys.

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You have 4 unnecessary steps.

 

1) Remove gear-based PvP.

 

The end. This pretty much solves all of the other issues you listed. PvP doesn't need to be a completely separate gear grind. It's just another MMO time sink that forces players who want to enjoy both aspects of the game to grind out another set of gear.

 

Allow players to use whatever moddable shell they want, and have armorings/mods available for purchase so that players can customize stats to their liking with reasonable thresholds in mind. Tanks should be able to mod for higher HP, while DPS should be able to mod for higher damage. Put Alacrity stats on healer gear so that it actually means something.

 

Keep the token system for unique PvP moddable armor shells for aesthetics only! Level the playing field.

 

Yep. That's why quite a few people don't even do pvp right there. And here I thought they weren't trying to make pvp feel like a separate game.

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Yes, I understand the three tiers of PvP armor we've always had, but unfortunately that is part of the reason we are losing fellow players and BW is losing customers. PvE and PvP always had an equal amount of tiers, a mirror system -- but why should the dev team, or us, be stuck on keeping the same broken system until the game shuts down? Hence the suggestions for improvements which could bring some people back and make PvP more fun for current ones. Unfortunately, without other people to play the game with, it's just a really expensive single player game. And to say it's fine as it is, well that's just being stubborn, even when faced with facts that PvP players don't agree with that, about a million of them.

 

And really, why is there even need to make new tiers of PvP armor? This is wasting resources they don't have. Why create EWH weapons? Have two tiers only, one free one you get handed at 50 and another you work towards for 3 weeks to a month to complete a whole set, WH. That's all it should take in my opinion. And leave it at those two sets, polish them, itemize them better and leave them be. They are not to be used in PvE due to the hidden stat limit, so they really are PvP only items that you spend one month per character on. Some folks will still spend a couple of months on full itemized WH. So if you JUST want to PvP, that's a half a year of work and you have 4 characters that are good to use in competitive PvP. They won't lose any customers over this, it's more realistic and promotes playing alts, instead of getting fed up with one character and quitting.

 

I think the only reason there are new tiers of PvP gear is simply to avoid the point in time where PvE gear does eventually become better than PvP gear. Theoretically, if you keep introducing new tiers of PvE gear, there will eventually be a time where it breaks even with the penalty for no expertise. I'm not going to say that is going to occur at any time in the future, but I suspect that's where Bioware was going when they aimed to separate PvE and PvP gear with a stat like Expertise.

 

So for that reason, if you have only two tiers of gear in PvP and continue to add new tiers of PvE, there is going to need to be some consideration for what happens with the later tiers on operation gear. There are obviously ways to fix this, like putting higher emphasis on Expertise when we finally reach that bridge (do something like 1.2 and implement a new Expertise curve if we start having such problems).

 

Beyond that, I agree with you. I prefer skill-based PvP over gear-based PvP every day of the week. If you aren't going to stop adding tiers of PvP gear, at the very least matchmaking should try and keep you against others at your effective level. It just doesn't make sense, because it puts you at unnecessary disadvantage. For anyone that actually enjoys competition (and not just ganking people), that should make sense. It's not a challenge to defeat someone two tiers beneath you. It's actually pretty funny when someone upsets the War Hero, but that's usually that player outperforming their gear (and is a sign of things to come).

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I think the only reason there are new tiers of PvP gear is simply to avoid the point in time where PvE gear does eventually become better than PvP gear. Theoretically, if you keep introducing new tiers of PvE gear, there will eventually be a time where it breaks even with the penalty for no expertise. I'm not going to say that is going to occur at any time in the future, but I suspect that's where Bioware was going when they aimed to separate PvE and PvP gear with a stat like Expertise.

 

So for that reason, if you have only two tiers of gear in PvP and continue to add new tiers of PvE, there is going to need to be some consideration for what happens with the later tiers on operation gear. There are obviously ways to fix this, like putting higher emphasis on Expertise when we finally reach that bridge (do something like 1.2 and implement a new Expertise curve if we start having such problems).

 

Beyond that, I agree with you. I prefer skill-based PvP over gear-based PvP every day of the week. If you aren't going to stop adding tiers of PvP gear, at the very least matchmaking should try and keep you against others at your effective level. It just doesn't make sense, because it puts you at unnecessary disadvantage. For anyone that actually enjoys competition (and not just ganking people), that should make sense. It's not a challenge to defeat someone two tiers beneath you. It's actually pretty funny when someone upsets the War Hero, but that's usually that player outperforming their gear (and is a sign of things to come).

 

Very true man, and I had that in mind but did not want to make the long reply any longer. :)

 

I was thinking they could write a script that could upgrade all PvP gear stats by a percentage. Meaning for the gear to remain competitive and not get outshined by raid gear, every once in a while they'd run the script and upgrade ALL stats on it by say 10% -- AR, main stats and endurance, secondary stats, everything gets a percentage boost, expertise stats even. Patch it when you introduce a new tier of PvE gear.

 

Do this to both the BM tier and the WH tier. Now there are still only 2 tiers but the highest tier is on par with the highest tier of PvE gear.

 

I don't know whether this is easy to do or not, but it could definitely be made to work.

Edited by Monterone
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All I heard is a bunch of suggestions that don't address the fundamental problems:

  1. This is an MMO Based on gear progression
  2. This is an MMO that is dying because of lack of progression when you finally max-out
  3. This is an MMO where the PvP consists of 4 maps played out to death over its 10 month lifetime.

 

The issue with recruit is not the damage but survivability (see points 1 and 2), and evidence suggesting that recruits can deal damage if they save commendations for 1-3 BM/WH pieces as soon as they hit 50.

 

 

The issue with survivability is really simple to solve. 95% of people in recruit gear:

  1. Dont have or use warzone medpacks
  2. Dont have or use warzone adrenals

 

The latter providing damage mitigation and the former healing a decent chunk of health. Heck, 95% of Battlemaster geared players don't use them either. The only population of people who are most likely to use warzone consumables are the fully decked out war-hero players. They have the excess commendations to spend, or aren't spending tons of credits on:

  • Augmentation Kits
  • Augments
  • PvE 26 and 27 armorings
  • Ripping out mods

 

 

That is where the significant gap is. New players aren't awarded enough credits or commendations to support using warzone consumables which heals my characters for 6K health, or a 15% damage reduction which is greater than the difference in damage reduction between WH and recruit gear.

 

The proposal is simple, and will kill multiple birds with one stone:

 

The loosing team in a Warzone match is awarded:

  • 80 Warzone commendations (+ vote earned commendations)
  • 10 Warzone medpacks (you can use at most 10 in a 15 minute match)
  • 5 Warzone Adrenals (you can use at most 5 in a 15 minute match)

 

This will:

  1. Lower the gap between recruit and WH in a way that wont break the lifeline that the TOR-tanic is clinging to (gear progression)
  2. Reduce the number of warzone quitters because they wont feel like they're receiving a negative investment on their consumables

 

This proposal does not solve the problem. But merely mitigate it without sinking the TOR-tanic in one fell swoop.

Edited by Yeochins
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All I heard is a bunch of suggestions that don't address the fundamental problems:

  1. This is an MMO Based on gear progression
  2. This is an MMO that is dying because of lack of progression when you finally max-out
  3. This is an MMO where the PvP consists of 4 maps played out to death over its 10 month lifetime.

 

The issue with recruit is not the damage but survivability (see points 1 and 2), and evidence suggesting that recruits can deal damage if they save commendations for 1-3 BM/WH pieces as soon as they hit 50.

 

 

The issue with survivability is really simple to solve. 95% of people in recruit gear:

  1. Dont have or use warzone medpacks
  2. Dont have or use warzone adrenals

 

The latter providing damage mitigation and the former healing a decent chunk of health. Heck, 95% of Battlemaster geared players don't use them either. The only population of people who are most likely to use warzone consumables are the fully decked out war-hero players. They have the excess commendations to spend, or aren't spending tons of credits on:

  • Augmentation Kits
  • Augments
  • PvE 26 and 27 armorings
  • Ripping out mods

 

 

That is where the significant gap is. New players aren't awarded enough credits or commendations to support using warzone consumables which heals my characters for 6K health, or a 15% damage reduction which is greater than the difference in damage reduction between WH and recruit gear.

 

The proposal is simple, and will kill multiple birds with one stone:

 

The loosing team in a Warzone match is awarded:

  • 80 Warzone commendations (+ vote earned commendations)
  • 10 Warzone medpacks (you can use at most 10 in a 15 minute match)
  • 5 Warzone Adrenals (you can use at most 5 in a 15 minute match)

 

This will:

  1. Lower the gap between recruit and WH in a way that wont break the lifeline that the TOR-tanic is clinging to (gear progression)
  2. Reduce the number of warzone quitters because they wont feel like they're receiving a negative investment on their consumables

 

This proposal does not solve the problem. But merely mitigate it without sinking the TOR-tanic in one fell swoop.

 

Interesting take on the balancing issues. Never really considered the consumable angle before but you're right. Ppl who are still gearing up aren't spending comms on these, adding an additional layer of separation between the haves and the have-nots.

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Considering the fact a hefty chunk of the "problems" concerning PvP is also with the players themselves, it is surprising to see none of the solutions mention the prime rule of PvP - "Stop whining. Learn to play."

 

Yes, SWTOR PvP has problems -- but then again so does every game out there to varying degrees. Besides, the largest, most serious problems that does not concern the player base is something which would be solved in due time -- ie; new maps, scenario PvPs, etc.. Bugs are also grinded out in time, although ironically (usually being low on the priority list) petty bugs tend to persist a long time -- which is also a common thing to see in many games.

 

Other than this, every thing else these people bring up in this forum is whine upon whine upon whine upon whine, about things and situations which should be rectified by the player themselves.

 

 

You could give them the most perfect PvP game, and people will still whine if they lose.

Ofcourse, it's never their own fault.

It's always someone else's, some other classes', some stupid system's, the game's fault.

 

With this kind of mindset, there ain't no way PvP gets any better. Anything that brings people to the painful realization to the fact that most of common players are simply scrubs, and they are part of those scrubs as well, they will simply choose to deny it and find some excuse to explain why the game is faulty.

 

These types of people, IMO, should not be PvPing in the first place. It's the horde of those people that started mouthing off the negative hype -- which ultimately hurt the game and its community.

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Better idea: NORMALIZE ALL HEALTH AND DAMAGE STATS ACROSS THE BOARD WHEN ENTERING A WARZONE OR ENGAGING A PLAYER IN WORLD COMBAT, MAKING THEM IMMUNE/INVISIBLE TO NPCs

 

Let the playing field BE EVEN WOOO!!!! Who's with meh!?!?? Oh, right... you people... want a "reason" to bash heads other than the sheer entertainment value -_-

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Better idea: NORMALIZE ALL HEALTH AND DAMAGE STATS ACROSS THE BOARD WHEN ENTERING A WARZONE OR ENGAGING A PLAYER IN WORLD COMBAT, MAKING THEM IMMUNE/INVISIBLE TO NPCs

 

Let the playing field BE EVEN WOOO!!!! Who's with meh!?!?? Oh, right... you people... want a "reason" to bash heads other than the sheer entertainment value -_-

 

Doesn't work that way anymore. You're living in 2012 soon to be 2013, not 1996-2004.

 

The genre that was all about this stuff is now about unlocks, and achievements. From the small social games you play on your smart-phone, to the consoles and PC. Counterstrike with all its glory has nothing in terms of popularity in comparison to that poor-excuse for a FPS Call of Duty.

 

Once you accept that progression will always define the modern game you can then focus on how you mitigate progression, not remove it (because no EA title will ever do that). Rewarding consumables on loss is a huge step towards mitigating progression onboard the TOR-tanic.

 

All these bolster-systems people are asking for, or the free Battlemaster handouts people are hoping for are not going to solve the huge discrepancy of Warzone consumables. The Warzone medpack and adrenal give an enormous advantage to to the fully WH-geared players. The seismic grenades are the cherry and icing on top. The advantage they give is bigger than the gear gap between an un-optimized WH character and a recruit.

 

Only the baddies of PvP haven't realized this yet. Anyone whose decent generally doesn't care to set the record straight with most of these forum whiners because most of the people they face are people who use Warzone consumables..If you PUG regular warzones, it is easy to tell based off of HP, and how they react to damage within minutes of the game, whether or not they're an easy kill because they don't have or won't use Warzone consumables.

Edited by Yeochins
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