Hey everyone,

 

I apologize for the delay in response but I wanted to understand exactly what happened before commenting. Here is what transpired and why your dyes ended up BoP.

 

As you know, when 2.1 went live the intent was that the CE vendor would have two exclusive dyes. We unfortunately released them as not being BoP, so that wasn't the case. As soon as we caught this the Cartel Market team created a bug fix, that bug fix was to have the dye modules correctly be BoP.

 

After some thought, we discussed with the Cartel Market team and determined the best course of action would be to leave the dyes as is. This way you folks could have something you control the market on! Then on top of that, make sure in a short timeframe to get new dyes added to your vendor which would be BoP and be exclusive to you. Once I had that decision in hand, I came and made the post which all of you saw explaining exactly that.

 

Now the question of what happened today. Well, as you can tell, what was originally a bug (dyes not being BoP) was fixed, even though it wasn't supposed to be. I am not positive where the disconnect happened but unfortunately that bug was addressed as a part of 2.1.1. I take full responsibility for this, when reviewing the patch notes for 2.1.1, I didn't notice that change was in there or I could have potentially caught it before it went live. Feel free to blame me for that one!

 

Looking forward, this is what we are going to do. We meant it when we said that we were planning to leave those alone. We will be removing BoP from those two dyes in 2.2. Currently the plan is you will see two new dye modules going on the CE vendor with Game Update 2.2.

 

I apologize for any confusion.

 

TLDR: A bug fix unfortunately happened after we decided to leave it as is and I didn't catch it before it went live. In 2.2 they will revert back to not being BoP and in our current plan, you will see two new BoP dyes on the CE vendor.

 

-eric

Thanks Eric. It's good you can accept responsibility when something goes wrong and have the guts to tell it. That way you build respect. Im satisfied with the current course of action your taking with the issue. I'd be better if these things didn't happend but I guess thats life.

Cheers to all you apologists out there

We care because Eric lied to us. Again.

Some of you really need to get a grip.

Stop treating every public comment from Bioware staff as cast in stone, cannot be changed, and some sort of ironclad contract to you personally.

They changed their mind. Get over it. People and companies change their minds all the time.... and where companies are concerned.. left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing is fairly common....so stop with the perjorative statements IMO.

Hey everyone,

 

I apologize for the delay in response but I wanted to understand exactly what happened before commenting. Here is what transpired and why your dyes ended up BoP.

 

As you know, when 2.1 went live the intent was that the CE vendor would have two exclusive dyes. We unfortunately released them as not being BoP, so that wasn't the case. As soon as we caught this the Cartel Market team created a bug fix, that bug fix was to have the dye modules correctly be BoP.

 

After some thought, we discussed with the Cartel Market team and determined the best course of action would be to leave the dyes as is. This way you folks could have something you control the market on! Then on top of that, make sure in a short timeframe to get new dyes added to your vendor which would be BoP and be exclusive to you. Once I had that decision in hand, I came and made the post which all of you saw explaining exactly that.

 

Now the question of what happened today. Well, as you can tell, what was originally a bug (dyes not being BoP) was fixed, even though it wasn't supposed to be. I am not positive where the disconnect happened but unfortunately that bug was addressed as a part of 2.1.1. I take full responsibility for this, when reviewing the patch notes for 2.1.1, I didn't notice that change was in there or I could have potentially caught it before it went live. Feel free to blame me for that one!

 

Looking forward, this is what we are going to do. We meant it when we said that we were planning to leave those alone. We will be removing BoP from those two dyes in 2.2. Currently the plan is you will see two new dye modules going on the CE vendor with Game Update 2.2.

 

I apologize for any confusion.

 

TLDR: A bug fix unfortunately happened after we decided to leave it as is and I didn't catch it before it went live. In 2.2 they will revert back to not being BoP and in our current plan, you will see two new BoP dyes on the CE vendor.

 

-eric

And this is how EricMusco- goes to EricMusco++ -- FWIW, the only more detailed explanations for things I've ever seen came from CCP for awhile when they explained specific technical details (for awhile) behind certain game issues.

I'm sure that things at Bioware have been chaotic with all the team restructuring and two teams working from two different directives seems like a fairly likely occurrence. Seem like you guys need to keep a specs bible and have someone whose job it is to make sure game change deployments match the specs.

So, a version of the game you cannot even get anymore let's people get a dye you cannot get with out getting the version of the game you cannot get anymore.....

 

Why not let people buy it and sell on GTN? Is it the end of the world if people could? No.

You can still get it -- just not through BW.

I do think they should have a CE upgrade purchasable though. But, this would be them giving something to the people who had faith in them and paid extra.

There are a good portion of vehicles, armor, pets, etc. that you cannot get anymore. And some of them, you may never be able to get again. Don't see any problem with that.

Mr. Musco... you just get more and more impressive all the time.

Thank You Eric for confirming that this wasn't an endrun around getting the CE some new dyes.

Some of you really need to get a grip.

 

Stop treating every public comment from Bioware staff as cast in stone, cannot be changed, and some sort of ironclad contract to you personally.

 

They changed their mind. Get over it. People and companies change their minds all the time.... and where companies are concerned.. left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing is fairly common....so stop with the perjorative statements IMO.

Somehow I had an inkling you'd show up and say something like this. You may want to read Eric's post.

And this is how EricMusco- goes to EricMusco++ -- FWIW, the only more detailed explanations for things I've ever seen came from CCP for awhile when they explained specific technical details (for awhile) behind certain game issues.

 

I'm sure that things at Bioware have been chaotic with all the team restructuring and two teams working from two different directives seems like a fairly likely occurrence. Seem like you guys need to keep a specs bible and have someone whose job it is to make sure game change deployments match the specs.

I agree.

Not only did Eric take time to explain the chain of events to folks..after he spent time to go find out what happened, he did it in a forthright manner to the community.

People calling Eric a liar every other day needs to stop IMO.

Somehow I had an inkling you'd show up and say something like this. You may want to read Eric's post.

I did.

And I stand my my statement.

Ever work in a large company? This sort of thing happens. It's precisely why there are people whose job is to manage communications and relations with customers. Get over it.

Hey everyone,

 

I apologize for the delay in response but I wanted to understand exactly what happened before commenting. Here is what transpired and why your dyes ended up BoP.

 

As you know, when 2.1 went live the intent was that the CE vendor would have two exclusive dyes. We unfortunately released them as not being BoP, so that wasn't the case. As soon as we caught this the Cartel Market team created a bug fix, that bug fix was to have the dye modules correctly be BoP.

 

After some thought, we discussed with the Cartel Market team and determined the best course of action would be to leave the dyes as is. This way you folks could have something you control the market on! Then on top of that, make sure in a short timeframe to get new dyes added to your vendor which would be BoP and be exclusive to you. Once I had that decision in hand, I came and made the post which all of you saw explaining exactly that.

 

Now the question of what happened today. Well, as you can tell, what was originally a bug (dyes not being BoP) was fixed, even though it wasn't supposed to be. I am not positive where the disconnect happened but unfortunately that bug was addressed as a part of 2.1.1. I take full responsibility for this, when reviewing the patch notes for 2.1.1, I didn't notice that change was in there or I could have potentially caught it before it went live. Feel free to blame me for that one!

 

Looking forward, this is what we are going to do. We meant it when we said that we were planning to leave those alone. We will be removing BoP from those two dyes in 2.2. Currently the plan is you will see two new dye modules going on the CE vendor with Game Update 2.2.

 

I apologize for any confusion.

 

TLDR: A bug fix unfortunately happened after we decided to leave it as is and I didn't catch it before it went live. In 2.2 they will revert back to not being BoP and in our current plan, you will see two new BoP dyes on the CE vendor.

 

-eric

the CE vendor.

What about the security key vendor? Don't get me wrong, I think the CE crowd deserves what they get and I'm not opposed to them getting additional dyes but seeing as the additional dyes are, in this particular instance, to make up for an error you made, shouldn't it also apply to security key vendor where the same thing happened?

Hey everyone,

 

I apologize for the delay in response but I wanted to understand exactly what happened before commenting. Here is what transpired and why your dyes ended up BoP.

 

As you know, when 2.1 went live the intent was that the CE vendor would have two exclusive dyes. We unfortunately released them as not being BoP, so that wasn't the case. As soon as we caught this the Cartel Market team created a bug fix, that bug fix was to have the dye modules correctly be BoP.

 

After some thought, we discussed with the Cartel Market team and determined the best course of action would be to leave the dyes as is. This way you folks could have something you control the market on! Then on top of that, make sure in a short timeframe to get new dyes added to your vendor which would be BoP and be exclusive to you. Once I had that decision in hand, I came and made the post which all of you saw explaining exactly that.

 

Now the question of what happened today. Well, as you can tell, what was originally a bug (dyes not being BoP) was fixed, even though it wasn't supposed to be. I am not positive where the disconnect happened but unfortunately that bug was addressed as a part of 2.1.1. I take full responsibility for this, when reviewing the patch notes for 2.1.1, I didn't notice that change was in there or I could have potentially caught it before it went live. Feel free to blame me for that one!

 

Looking forward, this is what we are going to do. We meant it when we said that we were planning to leave those alone. We will be removing BoP from those two dyes in 2.2. Currently the plan is you will see two new dye modules going on the CE vendor with Game Update 2.2.

 

I apologize for any confusion.

 

TLDR: A bug fix unfortunately happened after we decided to leave it as is and I didn't catch it before it went live. In 2.2 they will revert back to not being BoP and in our current plan, you will see two new BoP dyes on the CE vendor.

 

-eric

What colors will the new ones be?

What about the security key vendor? Don't get me wrong, I think the CE crowd deserves what they get and I'm not opposed to them getting additional dyes but seeing as the additional dyes are, in this particular instance, to make up for an error you made, shouldn't it also apply to security key vendor where the same thing happened?

Not quite the same thing. Sec key is not an "exclusive" thingy like the CE was.

I did.

 

And I stand my my statement.

 

Ever work in a large company? This sort of thing happens. It's precisely why there are people whose job is to manage communications and relations with customers. Get over it.

I work for a really small development team actually, so I know the very serious importance of specs and having someone whose responsibility it is to make sure everything matches the specifications document. This seems to be where Bioware ends up saying one thing to its customers and doing another thing with the game. They do not seem to have a centralized specs collection nor someone whose job it is to ensure everything that gets pushed live matches both the specs and what has been said publicly. The specs documents should reflect all public statements and if the specs decisions override those public statements, then new public statements should be made /before/ the changes are pushed live.

This is just a matter of internal discipline. As I understand it, the culture at Bioware has been much more informal for most of its history, but now they're fighting for their lives (if the layoffs and such are any indication), so it would be hugely beneficial for them, for many reasons, to have specs and someone who makes sure everything pushed live matches them.

Not quite the same thing. Sec key is not an "exclusive" thingy like the CE was.

The error made (making the dyes only found on said vendors BoE) deserves the same solution (having an additional dye added), assuming we think those are errors and solutions in the first place. Official stance is that they are. The only thing different is the dye colours the spesific vendors sell. Should CE vendor get more and different dyes than the security vendor? Probably. In this particular case though, the treatment should be the same. It was not a CE exclusive mess.

The error made (making the dyes only found on said vendors BoE) deserves the same solution (having an additional dye added), assuming we think those are errors and solutions in the first place. Official stance is that they are. The only thing different is the dye colours the spesific vendors sell. Should CE vendor get more and different dyes than the security vendor? Probably. In this particular case though, the treatment should be the same. It was not a CE exclusive mess.

Tempest in a teacup.

Not quite the same thing. Sec key is not an "exclusive" thingy like the CE was.

I work for a really small development team actually, so I know the very serious importance of specs and having someone whose responsibility it is to make sure everything matches the specifications document. This seems to be where Bioware ends up saying one thing to its customers and doing another thing with the game. They do not seem to have a centralized specs collection nor someone whose job it is to ensure everything that gets pushed live matches both the specs and what has been said publicly. The specs documents should reflect all public statements and if the specs decisions override those public statements, then new public statements should be made /before/ the changes are pushed live.

 

This is just a matter of internal discipline. As I understand it, the culture at Bioware has been much more informal for most of its history, but now they're fighting for their lives (if the layoffs and such are any indication), so it would be hugely beneficial for them, for many reasons, to have specs and someone who makes sure everything pushed live matches them.

The way this one likely went astray from the day they discussed what to do about it --> it was entered in the bug system by someone.. and from there.. it followed normal bug fix protocols. However, what Eric reported back to us was in effect, and "exception" to fixing the bug.

This is a case where they discussed and agreed to a fix other then just "fix the bug"....but it was entered as a bug for tracking purposes anyway and the bug fix process and momentum took over from there. Very common in large tech companies. Momentum rests in the nature of their tracking systems.

The bug trackng system IS for the most part... "the spec" in a case like this.

Hey everyone,

 

I apologize for the delay in response but I wanted to understand exactly what happened before commenting. Here is what transpired and why your dyes ended up BoP.

 

As you know, when 2.1 went live the intent was that the CE vendor would have two exclusive dyes. We unfortunately released them as not being BoP, so that wasn't the case. As soon as we caught this the Cartel Market team created a bug fix, that bug fix was to have the dye modules correctly be BoP.

 

After some thought, we discussed with the Cartel Market team and determined the best course of action would be to leave the dyes as is. This way you folks could have something you control the market on! Then on top of that, make sure in a short timeframe to get new dyes added to your vendor which would be BoP and be exclusive to you. Once I had that decision in hand, I came and made the post which all of you saw explaining exactly that.

 

Now the question of what happened today. Well, as you can tell, what was originally a bug (dyes not being BoP) was fixed, even though it wasn't supposed to be. I am not positive where the disconnect happened but unfortunately that bug was addressed as a part of 2.1.1. I take full responsibility for this, when reviewing the patch notes for 2.1.1, I didn't notice that change was in there or I could have potentially caught it before it went live. Feel free to blame me for that one!

 

Looking forward, this is what we are going to do. We meant it when we said that we were planning to leave those alone. We will be removing BoP from those two dyes in 2.2. Currently the plan is you will see two new dye modules going on the CE vendor with Game Update 2.2.

 

I apologize for any confusion.

 

TLDR: A bug fix unfortunately happened after we decided to leave it as is and I didn't catch it before it went live. In 2.2 they will revert back to not being BoP and in our current plan, you will see two new BoP dyes on the CE vendor.

 

-eric

Thank you.

This is enough of an explanation to address the concerns that you (BioWare, not you personally), pulled a 180, and intentionally didn't honor your commitment. Would be nice if the fix was unfixed before 2.2, but since that's only a couple weeks away, it's not a huge deal.

I work for a really small development team actually, so I know the very serious importance of specs and having someone whose responsibility it is to make sure everything matches the specifications document.

This is just a matter of internal discipline. As I understand it, the culture at Bioware has been much more informal for most of its history, but now they're fighting for their lives (if the layoffs and such are any indication), so it would be hugely beneficial for them, for many reasons, to have specs and someone who makes sure everything pushed live matches them.

As someone with a few decades in software development, I think I somewhat understand where you're coming from, ISO 9001, Bellcore, CMM. But I don't think *anybody* in gaming does it that way. Blizzard has the same sort of comments as to why their tooltips are frequently out of date. In a mature development process, that would never (well, hardly ever) happen. I don't want to be dismissive and it is changing but I think that more gaming programmers got their via working in QA than with a Stanford Computer Science degree.

I really enjoy Monte's Minute about the gaming indusrty on Gamebreaker.tv. In #25 someone with some military development asked about process maturity and it was basically gaming is too fluid for that. Which in retrospect I found annoying: developing a half-trillion dollar state-of-the-art defense system was easier and more predictable than a video game? ***!?!

Alas, the lack of software development maturity is not a BW thing, it is a gaming industry thing. I don't want any gaming company involved in software for my bank, pacemaker or vasectomy.

The layoff comment is out of date; revenue has doubled and BW is hiring. It is Blizzard that has declining numbers and just 'rebooted" a project, Trion and Age of Wooshu has layoffs. BW is probably the best performing MMO studio at the moment. I never thought I would type that!

Hey everyone,

 

I apologize for the delay in response but I wanted to understand exactly what happened before commenting. Here is what transpired and why your dyes ended up BoP.

 

As you know, when 2.1 went live the intent was that the CE vendor would have two exclusive dyes. We unfortunately released them as not being BoP, so that wasn't the case. As soon as we caught this the Cartel Market team created a bug fix, that bug fix was to have the dye modules correctly be BoP.

 

After some thought, we discussed with the Cartel Market team and determined the best course of action would be to leave the dyes as is. This way you folks could have something you control the market on! Then on top of that, make sure in a short timeframe to get new dyes added to your vendor which would be BoP and be exclusive to you. Once I had that decision in hand, I came and made the post which all of you saw explaining exactly that.

 

Now the question of what happened today. Well, as you can tell, what was originally a bug (dyes not being BoP) was fixed, even though it wasn't supposed to be. I am not positive where the disconnect happened but unfortunately that bug was addressed as a part of 2.1.1. I take full responsibility for this, when reviewing the patch notes for 2.1.1, I didn't notice that change was in there or I could have potentially caught it before it went live. Feel free to blame me for that one!

 

Looking forward, this is what we are going to do. We meant it when we said that we were planning to leave those alone. We will be removing BoP from those two dyes in 2.2. Currently the plan is you will see two new dye modules going on the CE vendor with Game Update 2.2.

 

I apologize for any confusion.

 

TLDR: A bug fix unfortunately happened after we decided to leave it as is and I didn't catch it before it went live. In 2.2 they will revert back to not being BoP and in our current plan, you will see two new BoP dyes on the CE vendor.

 

-eric

Fantastic. Right way to handle it. Good job.

Not that my opinion is important, but I'm going to give them a pass on this one. I was more concerned with community reaction than I was the dyes being BoP anyway.

BTW...I am of the opinion that it would be nice if we got one more dye on the SV, but I don't feel it's necessary. Unlocking the current dye would be good enough IMO.

Hey everyone,

 

I apologize for the delay in response but I wanted to understand exactly what happened before commenting. Here is what transpired and why your dyes ended up BoP.

 

As you know, when 2.1 went live the intent was that the CE vendor would have two exclusive dyes. We unfortunately released them as not being BoP, so that wasn't the case. As soon as we caught this the Cartel Market team created a bug fix, that bug fix was to have the dye modules correctly be BoP.

 

After some thought, we discussed with the Cartel Market team and determined the best course of action would be to leave the dyes as is. This way you folks could have something you control the market on! Then on top of that, make sure in a short timeframe to get new dyes added to your vendor which would be BoP and be exclusive to you. Once I had that decision in hand, I came and made the post which all of you saw explaining exactly that.

 

Now the question of what happened today. Well, as you can tell, what was originally a bug (dyes not being BoP) was fixed, even though it wasn't supposed to be. I am not positive where the disconnect happened but unfortunately that bug was addressed as a part of 2.1.1. I take full responsibility for this, when reviewing the patch notes for 2.1.1, I didn't notice that change was in there or I could have potentially caught it before it went live. Feel free to blame me for that one!

 

Looking forward, this is what we are going to do. We meant it when we said that we were planning to leave those alone. We will be removing BoP from those two dyes in 2.2. Currently the plan is you will see two new dye modules going on the CE vendor with Game Update 2.2.

 

I apologize for any confusion.

 

TLDR: A bug fix unfortunately happened after we decided to leave it as is and I didn't catch it before it went live. In 2.2 they will revert back to not being BoP and in our current plan, you will see two new BoP dyes on the CE vendor.

 

-eric

It's because of statements of this kind that you, Mr. Musco, are the best community manager that this game ever had Hats off to you, Eric, and thanks for the explanation!

Hey everyone,

 

I apologize for the delay in response but I wanted to understand exactly what happened before commenting. Here is what transpired and why your dyes ended up BoP.

 

As you know, when 2.1 went live the intent was that the CE vendor would have two exclusive dyes. We unfortunately released them as not being BoP, so that wasn't the case. As soon as we caught this the Cartel Market team created a bug fix, that bug fix was to have the dye modules correctly be BoP.

 

After some thought, we discussed with the Cartel Market team and determined the best course of action would be to leave the dyes as is. This way you folks could have something you control the market on! Then on top of that, make sure in a short timeframe to get new dyes added to your vendor which would be BoP and be exclusive to you. Once I had that decision in hand, I came and made the post which all of you saw explaining exactly that.

 

Now the question of what happened today. Well, as you can tell, what was originally a bug (dyes not being BoP) was fixed, even though it wasn't supposed to be. I am not positive where the disconnect happened but unfortunately that bug was addressed as a part of 2.1.1. I take full responsibility for this, when reviewing the patch notes for 2.1.1, I didn't notice that change was in there or I could have potentially caught it before it went live. Feel free to blame me for that one!

 

Looking forward, this is what we are going to do. We meant it when we said that we were planning to leave those alone. We will be removing BoP from those two dyes in 2.2. Currently the plan is you will see two new dye modules going on the CE vendor with Game Update 2.2.

 

I apologize for any confusion.

 

TLDR: A bug fix unfortunately happened after we decided to leave it as is and I didn't catch it before it went live. In 2.2 they will revert back to not being BoP and in our current plan, you will see two new BoP dyes on the CE vendor.

 

-eric

Wait... what?

Aaaw... i came here to rant and whine, but you just nipped that in the bud...

Oh well...

(nicely handled eric )

Hey everyone,

 

I apologize for the delay in response but I wanted to understand exactly what happened before commenting. Here is what transpired and why your dyes ended up BoP.

 

As you know, when 2.1 went live the intent was that the CE vendor would have two exclusive dyes. We unfortunately released them as not being BoP, so that wasn't the case. As soon as we caught this the Cartel Market team created a bug fix, that bug fix was to have the dye modules correctly be BoP.

 

After some thought, we discussed with the Cartel Market team and determined the best course of action would be to leave the dyes as is. This way you folks could have something you control the market on! Then on top of that, make sure in a short timeframe to get new dyes added to your vendor which would be BoP and be exclusive to you. Once I had that decision in hand, I came and made the post which all of you saw explaining exactly that.

 

Now the question of what happened today. Well, as you can tell, what was originally a bug (dyes not being BoP) was fixed, even though it wasn't supposed to be. I am not positive where the disconnect happened but unfortunately that bug was addressed as a part of 2.1.1. I take full responsibility for this, when reviewing the patch notes for 2.1.1, I didn't notice that change was in there or I could have potentially caught it before it went live. Feel free to blame me for that one!

 

Looking forward, this is what we are going to do. We meant it when we said that we were planning to leave those alone. We will be removing BoP from those two dyes in 2.2. Currently the plan is you will see two new dye modules going on the CE vendor with Game Update 2.2.

 

I apologize for any confusion.

 

TLDR: A bug fix unfortunately happened after we decided to leave it as is and I didn't catch it before it went live. In 2.2 they will revert back to not being BoP and in our current plan, you will see two new BoP dyes on the CE vendor.

 

-eric

We don't want more dyes. We want the *continuous* exclusive weapons and armor models that were promised to us when information of the CE came out that pushed many of us to Purchase it.

What is so difficult about that to understand? Do the developers read the CE thread and just smile and nod what has been said over and over and over and over again?

*sidenote* I appreciate your feedback and honesty. If there were more Bioware team members of your stature, maybe that CE vendor thread never would've came into existence.