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Remove reg matchmaking or remove premades


TrixxieTriss

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Best way to balance is to just get your own group. If everyone made a group there would be no issue. But no everyone wants to run solo and then rage about getting dumped on by players working as a team. Implementing the "matchmaking" patch was pointless. People can fix the issue themselves by making their own group. :)
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premades are imbalanced --> make them solo queue, which increases the number of players in the queue --> the premaders would rather not pvp than solo queue --> banning premades means premaders quit rather than solo queue.

 

I know the thread title says remove reg matchmaking or remove premades, but I’ve never really been a fan of removing the premades for exactly this reason.

For me the title and the thread are born out of frustration at the current state of the matchmaking system and pvp itself.

 

Premades should be able to exist in a system that is fair for them and everyone else. I don’t think they need a seperate queue, but there does need to be a change that addresses the problems of premades in low population queues with a borked up matchmaking system.

 

If BioWare can’t or more to the point won’t make an effort to fix the matchmaking because it’s too hard for them or they don’t have the resources, then they leave no other good option but to put limitations (not total removal) of premades from regs.

 

The most basic concept is 2 man premades (definitely not the best) Limiting premades to 2 man ones would still allow people to group with friends and be social.

In the past I was also a big part of a pvp guild on Harbinger and before that on Dalbora. I completely understand the whole premade dynamics with in pvp guilds. So I can’t see a limitation of 2 man premades having “too” much of an adverse affect to drive people from the game. I know it’s not perfect, it’s more a bandaid solution (which is all BioWare seem to be good at).

 

But I’m sure some won’t like it and may stop, the same as this dumb matchmaking system drove a bunch more people from the game. You also have this dumb new gearing system on top of another dumb gearing system that most dont like and it’s driven people from the game.

BioWare continue to create these problems till we wind up with low population problems and all the bad stuff they’ve done is magnified. This is just another issue that is either driving pugs from pvp (more of them than premades) or would drive premade players from the game with the total removal of them in regs. Neither is a good at the moment, there needs to be a compromise.

 

The absolute best solution is BioWare make the matchmaking work properly and in doing so, make the hidden ELO known and transparent so that it can be properly tested and feed back given.

If we don’t know what all the variables are, how are we to give constructive feed back or suggestions on where the system is failing or is fundamentally broken.

 

Making it work properly would mean putting premades that are already in the total reg queue-active matches against each other more than against full pug teams. BioWare need to dump this whole policy of fastest pops above all other considerations. It’s never encouraged better quality pvp in this game and has mostly been detrimental to the quality.

We all like fast pops, but not at the total detriment of our pvp enjoyment and fun.

 

I’ve said it in other posts, but matchmaking with 4 man premades in the reg queue should work like this :

 

* if you have multiple premades in the queue and in matches, the queue system needs to look at the total number of them. (Not who is next to pop in the queue to make it pop faster)

* then it’s needs to look at how many are in current matches and when will these matches end.

* slowing the pop speed slightly or increasing it slightly to then allow the majority of premades in the queue/matches to be put into a semi close rotation with each other.

* if there are odd numbers of premades when the queue is small, then rotate them through so that the 5-8 best pugs are on the opposing team, depending on the ELO of each player. The lower the pug’s skill, the more of the better ones in the queue will need to be together vs premades. (Not the other way around like now).

* double premades vs double premades could/should happen if more than 8 premades in the queue.

* less than 8 premades and with enough pugs in the queue would allow 1 premade per team and 4 pugs per team. (During these times the premade players need to be graded separately and not as the best on their team. That is the only way you will get the right premade/pug mix teams)

 

Other changes needed for matchmaking.

The queue system needs to try and bunch similar skilled pug/premade players into a rotation together. Putting 1-2 good players on each team and a bunch of bads isn’t fun for those good players and it’s why the skill lvl in most matches is so bad. It’s also not fun for one of those bads to encounter a premade of higher skill that instantly smashes them.

It could use a similar mechanism to the premades to get speed up or slow down pops to bunch similarly skilled players together so they get into a bunched rotation. (Other games do stuff like this, even ranked is supposed to work like this).

Yes, pops might slow a little bit, especially when you first join the queue. But that should sort it’s selfout relatively fast. In primetime you probably wouldn’t be able to tell the difference to now. Outside of primetime you may have to wait a extra few minutes.

 

All of that combined would greatly improve the quality and enjoyment of the majority of players.

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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Best way to balance is to just get your own group. If everyone made a group there would be no issue. But no everyone wants to run solo and then rage about getting dumped on by players working as a team. Implementing the "matchmaking" patch was pointless. People can fix the issue themselves by making their own group. :)

 

That’s a very naive attitude. Not everyone likes playing in premades. Not everyone has enough social decorum to be in premades. Not everyone is socially confident to ask to be in a premade or ask others to join. Not everyone has time to organise a premade. Some people queue while doing other things and and may not be able to accept a pops all the

time.

 

Telling people to form their own groups doesn’t solve the problem.

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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That’s a very naive attitude. Not everyone likes playing in premades. Not everyone has enough social decorum to be in premades. Not everyone is socially confident to ask to be in a premade or ask others to join. Not everyone has time to organise a premade. Some people queue while doing other things and and may not be able to accept a pops all the

time.

 

 

So which are you?

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what about adding group reg option and forbid any actions such as joining a group while u queuing for reg solo?

 

It would make sense, but only if the population allowed for this to work. I mean, if you only got 3-5 premades queuing and 12 solo queuing obviously it wouldn't work.

 

When the game was really bouncing with activity in the WZs, they could have made a solo only queue, and premade group queue for regs it would have worked. I don't know about now. Even though with cross faction in now, maybe it could. They have the numbers so they would know,

 

I guess they don't think it would work or they would have done this a long time ago. That or they lack the coding knowledge to do it, rofl. Who knows what their reasoning is for the decisions they make.

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Of course you despise ranked,because you would have to go against another premade, where they would crush you. It's like I said, you won't see many guild vs guild fights,because one guild would stomp another and trashier guild would stop playing. You are so full of excuses. YES you ran a pvp guild...we all heard you...I was in pvp guilds as well,but that didn't stop me from playing solo.

Guild vs guild matches sure they don't count for weeklies,but you can test your guild and your skill.

 

Ranked was dead before, mat farmers didn't kill it. If anything, people had ranked pops because of those mat farmers.

 

Let them quit, if they can't solo q. You stomp and get stomped in pvp...you kill and get killed in pvp...that's how it is. Self proclamied elites,who rage quit,because someone focuses them or it doesn't go the way they want in frst 2 minutes of wz...gimme a break. You talk about how 25% of pvp population is premade...so BW should ignore other 75%, where they are losing solo players because of trash that premades in solo q's.

 

BW gave people,who "just wanna play with their friends" now option to do so.

 

Guild Wars 2 had at start solo q and group q...then they removed group q,because not many ppl were doing it,because trash premades got stomped. Then they went to solo q,where they faced pugs and could actually win. It's the same thing. Haven't played GW2 in over a year now,but I am pretty sure it's still the same. And that game actually had some real competition going on for real cash for a while.

 

Bottom line is and this is not just my perspective..this is how it is...people who use excuse that it is nothing wrong with premades in solo q and then don't actually solo q...are trash. Trash is trash.

 

And your logic is stupid by the way...premades would not wanna play against another premade...but they would against pug...they would rather quit game than play solo q. "Great logic" !

 

YOU CAN NEVER BALANCE GAME AROUND PREMADE. To all trash get some skill, you'll stomp in pvp and you'll get stomped. Grow a pair of balls and play solo q SOLO.

 

BYE FELICIA !!!

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Since when do you get to assume reasons I don't like something? I told you i don't like ranked because I prefer strategic, objective based play.

 

I have solo queued, played in premades, and against premades, so maybe I simply have a broader perspective than someone who only solo queues and wants to lock everyone else in their box.

 

In short, the premade queue has sailed. The population of this game would not support a seperate queue, leading more people to leave, and making the population glut even lower than it already is.

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It would make sense, but only if the population allowed for this to work. I mean, if you only got 3-5 premades queuing and 12 solo queuing obviously it wouldn't work.

 

When the game was really bouncing with activity in the WZs, they could have made a solo only queue, and premade group queue for regs it would have worked. I don't know about now. Even though with cross faction in now, maybe it could. They have the numbers so they would know,

 

I guess they don't think it would work or they would have done this a long time ago. That or they lack the coding knowledge to do it, rofl. Who knows what their reasoning is for the decisions they make.

 

Nah, it’s wouldnt work. Even in primetime. There just aren’t enough individual people in the queue. More and more of us aren’t queueing for pvp anymore.

 

The best solution as I mentioned is to just fix the damn match making and we won’t have this problem, either that or remove premades altogether or compromise and just make 2 man premades.

 

As it is, I’ve basically stopped playing pvp. It’s a friggen joke. I’m either getting pummeled by premades (losing every match) because I’m the only good player on the team full of noobs. Or I’m pummeling a bunch of noobs because they put 2 good player on my team and none on theirs.

 

BioWare just need to fix the *********** matchmaking.

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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i wonder why

 

No need to wonder.

We’ve all seen how BioWare have systematically destroyed pvp by accident or incompetence or on purpose. Who knows why they do anything.

If they actually consulted more with the pvp community instead of trying to force stuff on us or not interpreting what we say and understanding ( means they need to communicate more to make sure they understand because they mostly seem to do the opposite of the feed back they are given ). Then maybe pvp wouldn’t be in the sorry state it’s in and more people would play it.

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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No need to wonder.

We’ve all seen how BioWare have systematically destroyed pvp by accident or incompetence or on purpose. Who knows why they do anything.

If they actually consulted more with the pvp community instead of trying to force stuff on us or not interpreting what we say and understanding ( means they need to communicate more to make sure they understand because they mostly seem to do the opposite of the feed back they are given ). Then maybe pvp wouldn’t be in the sorry state it’s in and more people would play it.

you're right

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There are so many issues with the matchmaking situation that it is hard to unpack.

1.) Restrictions for heal/tank only makes things worse, not better. No changes will create good matches until that has been removed.

2.) I agree with Trix about the weight given to premades is way off. In reality you can have a premade of utter noobs on voice and they'd be able to stand up to quality pugs. It is such an unfair advantage premade over pugs that really unless you had huge populations you cannot balance it.

3.) The flaw with most MMOs, by design is to funnel wimps into premades to have unfair advantage over non-premades. Frankly, many people who play premades have absolutely NO interest in a fair matchup. They are there to be on the winning side of a face-roll easy no-skill needed matchup - quite simply. These people are wimps. The OTHER people who premade simply to play with friends and actually would like a fair matchup, also would agree that better matchmaking should be designed.

 

The only solution that will actually work is to give people option to opt out of queing with premades. I'd gladly wait twice as long for a pug vs pug matchup, because I would much rather be playing other aspects of the game while waiting for a quality matchup. What people like to skip is the fact that the amount of time to get a quality game would be way less with this design. Even though the amount of time to get a queue pop may be slightly longer.

 

Unltil then, people can just keep dropping everytime they are in a premade face-roll and since there is no way for healer/tank to backfill properly the circus will continue.

 

MMOs are dying, not just each game but the entire genre. Partly because huge guilds and premades are given unfair advantages over those who prefer a different playstyle. The non-inclusive policy is dumb and when all the MMOs die, the one left standing will have moved away from unfair premade vs pug matchups.

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There are so many issues with the matchmaking situation that it is hard to unpack.

1.) Restrictions for heal/tank only makes things worse, not better. No changes will create good matches until that has been removed.

2.) I agree with Trix about the weight given to premades is way off. In reality you can have a premade of utter noobs on voice and they'd be able to stand up to quality pugs. It is such an unfair advantage premade over pugs that really unless you had huge populations you cannot balance it.

3.) The flaw with most MMOs, by design is to funnel wimps into premades to have unfair advantage over non-premades. Frankly, many people who play premades have absolutely NO interest in a fair matchup. They are there to be on the winning side of a face-roll easy no-skill needed matchup - quite simply. These people are wimps. The OTHER people who premade simply to play with friends and actually would like a fair matchup, also would agree that better matchmaking should be designed.

 

The only solution that will actually work is to give people option to opt out of queing with premades. I'd gladly wait twice as long for a pug vs pug matchup, because I would much rather be playing other aspects of the game while waiting for a quality matchup. What people like to skip is the fact that the amount of time to get a quality game would be way less with this design. Even though the amount of time to get a queue pop may be slightly longer.

 

Unltil then, people can just keep dropping everytime they are in a premade face-roll and since there is no way for healer/tank to backfill properly the circus will continue.

 

MMOs are dying, not just each game but the entire genre. Partly because huge guilds and premades are given unfair advantages over those who prefer a different playstyle. The non-inclusive policy is dumb and when all the MMOs die, the one left standing will have moved away from unfair premade vs pug matchups.

 

I could not have said it better

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I like going up against premades. They never care about objectives -its just farming. The key is to avoid the 4 player premade and concentrate on the objectives. Easy wins. You can 3-0 a premade in Alderaan

 

Only if the rest of your team isn’t noobs. You will still lose if you are the only one playing the objectives while the premade farms your team

You needs at least 1-2 other people on your team who can help you. Matchmaking is broken because it only puts 2 good players per team and that makes it hard against a premade.

Edited by Totemdancer
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The real problem is, as i have been saying, population.

 

I noticed my premade always getting matched with too much garbage to carry (if a merc follows my shadow to every off node, for instance, he is ruining the game for us when the other 3 players consist of 2 dps sorcs with tank stims and a mara with one lightsaber).

 

So it would seem the issue is that there is too much garbage and the good players have left. What is Musco going to do about idiots trying to queue?

 

Which is why 5.10 is even more stupid. If your only playerbase left consists of the star wars lovers that have an hour to play and don't know what half their abilities do, why make a gearing method that takes hours of grind.

 

Basically, Musco, the decisions of the team, and the people you are willing to sacrifice are remarkably short sited and damaging in the long term

 

But then, why worry about game health when you can make a profit with 3 people on the game.

Edited by KendraP
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