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BW, do you ever plan on addressing DPS Mercs/Commandos PvP-wise?


Dovahbrah

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To be honest, I dont even want an ESACPE. I want freaking instant cast Power Shots (and Tracer Missile). When I go heads up with a melee, here is an approximation of the fight:

 

The first round involves leaps/snares/roots on me. I try to use KB/Stun/Shielding to escape. Usually I take some damage but also begin to kite at this point.

 

Now I pop off all my instant casts: Incendiary Missile, Thermal Detonator, Rail Shot, Power Surged Fusion Missile. That will actually do a nice chunk of damage but from here on out I'm just running and using Rapid Shots until one of us dies.

 

I need mobile (instant cast) POWER SHOTS so that way I'm not just tickling people as I kite them. The fight rarely lasts long enough for Thermal and Raishot to come off cooldown. One of us will be dead by then.

Edited by DarthBloodloss
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To get back on topic, since debating whether commando/merc needs help is pointless (since BW even admitted it), I had some thoughts for potential changes. While I'm still hopeful for an escape, perhaps they would be better off redesigning some skills to make us more tanky, rather than making us more running and mobile like a sorc. (Let's be honest, it doesn't -feel- like we're in havy armor, despite that being part of the iconic look and feel of the class/mirror).

 

1. Redisgn Counter-Measures so it is not only an aggro dump, but a defensive tool. I'd either go with some kind of CC/Leap/Pull immunity for 3-4 seconds, or a tech/force immunity for 3-4 seconds. Naturally the CD should be 90 seconds or so. Since we're not talking about high mobility here, it's unlikely you'll see a merc jump the fire pit while immune to tech, and sprint into a goal line.

 

2. Reserve Power Cell should not only reduce ammo cost, but also provide intterupt immunity to any designated cast. Instead of being a useless "free" cast usually paired with Tech override (so we don't forget we have it), now it's a tool that can turn the tides in a pinch. If there are complaints about healers using it, simply make it a talented add on in the gunnery tree (being the tree that needs it the most.)

 

3. I can't even remember the name of that crappy self heal we get, but either remove it and replace, or add some kind of benefit onto it. Could be a full out self heal like sorcs got with an added crappy HoT, or I'd prefer some kind of defense boost while it's active.

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BH needs more defensive CD's.

 

i don't want to "escape". i'm heavy armor, heavy guns...i should be a walking "arsenal", so to speak (even tho i play Merc/PT).

 

something very similar to marauders, for example.

 

1. a shield that actually shields damage. similar to marauders or assassin shield.

2. a flashbang that temporarily blinds opponents. i.e. 3-4 second stealth or stun(like operative/smuggler)

3. an improved way to apply fire DoT. something similar to PT/Van fire burst/ion pulse that will make rail shot more consistant.

4. increased speed, something similar to hold the line, that will make us helpful utility. node to node defense.

5. 30m range on all abilities. right now, our only good defense is our range, and even that is limited.

6. uniterruptable when afore mentioned shield is activated.

 

personally, i'm pretty happy with my damage output. it could use a slight bump in terms of BURST, but sustained damage is pretty good where it is.

 

seriously, whoever is testing and making decisions needs a stern talking to. do they even play the game?? with other actual players??

 

any semi-competent pvp'r understands the OP-ness (funny if you say it aloud) of marauders, assassins (tank spec), and snipers, and their mirrors.

 

the only class i feel i am on par with is Sorcs, now that i have an interrupt. and i base that on skilled player vs. skilled player.

 

i will hang on one more time for this fix. if it done incorrectly, this will be my final straw. i do not want to be FotM, i want to compete and be a contibutor in PvP. not a mark.

 

there are so many good ideas in these forums, please put them to use.

Edited by T-Assassin
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BH needs more defensive CD's.

 

i don't want to "escape". i'm heavy armor, heavy guns...i should be a walking "arsenal", so to speak (even tho i play Merc/PT).

 

something very similar to marauders, for example.

 

1. a shield that actually shields damage. similar to marauders or assassin shield.

2. a flashbang that temporarily blinds opponents. i.e. 3-4 second stealth or stun(like operative/smuggler)

3. an improved way to apply fire DoT. something similar to PT/Van fire burst/ion pulse that will make rail shot more consistant.

4. increased speed, something similar to hold the line, that will make us helpful utility. node to node defense.

5. 30m range on all abilities. right now, our only good defense is our range, and even that is limited.

6. uniterruptable when afore mentioned shield is activated.

 

personally, i'm pretty happy with my damage output. it could use a slight bump in terms of BURST, but sustained damage is pretty good where it is.

 

seriously, whoever is testing and making decisions needs a stern talking to. do they even play the game?? with other actual players??

 

any semi-competent pvp'r understands the OP-ness (funny if you say it aloud) of marauders, assassins (tank spec), and snipers, and their mirrors.

 

the only class i feel i am on par with is Sorcs, now that i have an interrupt. and i base that on skilled player vs. skilled player.

 

i will hang on one more time for this fix. if it done incorrectly, this will be my final straw. i do not want to be FotM, i want to compete and be a contibutor in PvP. not a mark.

 

there are so many good ideas in these forums, please put them to use.

 

So you want to be a Marauder, with ranged DPS, with a healing tree, who can spec into it for quick heals, as well as a heavy armor tank.

 

That's a nice dream. I once had a dream that Marauders were a ranged class, alas it is still a dream.

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For a while I have been replying to many threads about the Commando/Merc AC in support of where it is now, with what I thought were some pretty good ideas and techniques for the class. I have always been very successful from a DPS perspective, and by fighting from the edges vs. being on top of objectives, I've usually survived fairly well enough until I had to get in the mix or been jumped, where I would admittedly, die rather more quickly than some other classes. Perhaps I've been, as I've seen someway say "a great player wasted on a poor class.."

 

However, I have to say even I have become disillusioned. While I am happy to see Bioware is looking into our "escapability," I have to say the idea of a commando being very effective at LOS and pillar hugging 1v1 is laughable. it actually makes me think of some encounters with Sorcs I have had lately.. Being able to root and force speed around a pillar 15m away and dropping an instant self heal is good escapability... Being able to walk around a pillar and start your casted self heal just as that melee rounds the corner and ravages you is not!

 

It really does seem that all other classes have both better ways of either A) keeping you in thier kill zone via roots, snares, leaps, etc. or B) escaping from an encounter that is going the wrong way via damage reduction cooldowns, stealth exiting combat, roots, snares and force speed away.

 

I think what really killed it for me was that I used to believe our AoE (even if it is channeled) was awesome. Tech Override > Plasma Grenade > Mortar Volley. About 6k+ in damage each to 3 or 4 targets in about 4.5 seconds, and I can do it every 30 seconds (2 mins for the tech override though to make plasma instant). But then: Smash! Same damage. Instantly. Uninterruptible. Every 15 seconds or less. And the leap effectively makes it a 10m ranged ability.

 

Really?

 

this is EXACTLY how i feel. start to finish.

 

Played Merc FIREBUG (Pyrotech to you newbies :p) in Beta. Server 1st BM on MZL, as an assassin...only reason i didn't roll a BH at launch was because i told myslef in Beta, "if they don't have that Crimson Mando armor on the Imp vendor, i'm not playing a BH..."

 

So...switched to BH, Merc/PT after 1.2, i felt robbed at the overnight BM's, so i rage shelved my assassin.

 

I should have played him, Merc/PT from launch :( i LOVE the class...it is me...it feels so natural, i don't have to look at my toolbars, i have all my hotkeys set-up so they became fluid playing the class. it was FUN...kept me playing after 1.2.

 

in 10-49 WZ's, i finished #1 in damage in all but 3 of my WZ's. (i have SS's that will blow your mind as a Merc/PT). i'm a pretty dang good merc...but, then again...i was a pretty good Assassin.

 

i was on the forums, trying my best to remain positive, going so far as to be in the "Merc is fine, L2P" category.

 

then, i got talked into rerolling a Marauder with a friend (while i leveled a Vanguard, solo. you should see THOSE SS"s)...

 

Merc is bad...REAL bad.

 

but, there are many GREAT ideas from many forum posters...

 

hopefully, it will get fixed before it is too late.

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So you want to be a Marauder, with ranged DPS, with a healing tree, who can spec into it for quick heals, as well as a heavy armor tank.

 

That's a nice dream. I once had a dream that Marauders were a ranged class, alas it is still a dream.

 

 

 

didn't remember saying i wanted ALL of those things, plus a gun...

 

i was just putting up a list of ideas...

 

if your looking for an argument, take it somewhere else...

 

or, at least be constructive when you judge.

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didn't remember saying i wanted ALL of those things, plus a gun...

 

i was just putting up a list of ideas...

 

if your looking for an argument, take it somewhere else...

 

or, at least be constructive when you judge.

 

Agreed. Can't have everything you mentioned, but they are good ideas individually.

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Arsenal Mercs play very similar to Snipers – the difference is the Snipers have the tools to get the job done and mercs don’t. Roots, Snares, Immunity to Leaps, and that’s not all. It’s no wonder why the Sniper is superior to a merc in every way.

 

Pyro Mercs are better known as the Poor Man’s PowerTech – and until they are brought up to par they will forever be dwarfed by the superior AC. Pyro needs to kite to survive so give it the tools that it needs to get it done. Powershot must be changed to an instant cast and unload should be replaced by another ability and tied into PPA for the rail shot resets and also give them a reliable snare.

 

From here, the merc ac will also need improvements in defensive capabilities and added utility to earn them a place on a RWZ team. Many people have suggested an ability tied to a jetpack where the merc can disengage and fire a few shots while retreating. Energy Shield also needs to be improved.

 

It’s way past time for this AC to receive some massive changes – and not given changes that are pointless like taking away the knockback from rocket punch and giving the class a melee root which is beyond stupid for a ranged class to have. Until then, I’ll keep playing my marauder, powertech, juggernaut, sniper and I can only hope that those of you playing mercs finally get some much needed attention from the development team but from what I read from Austin Peckenpaugh, it's quite clear he has no idea what he's talking about.

Edited by Serpieri
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I also think we would have better luck with suggesting improvements to existing abilities instead of dreaming up new cool stuff that they have to develop, etc.

 

Thats why I think we should focus on:

-Better Shield

-Better Kolto HoT

-Better Snare (same application is fine, just needs to be reliable)

-Insta-Cast Power Shot / Tracer

-Add some/all Tracer percs to Power Shot (to avoid being shut down so easily)(its a Ranged attack so its still inferior)

-Better effect(s) for Rocket Punch

-Uninterruptable Shield able to be used by Arsenal

-Cylinders Changeable on the move (to be used for off-heals while running to a different node, for example)

-Move some abilites down in the trees to upgrade hybrid builds from "unplayable" to "somewhat viable"

 

Additional abilites could be added to the Agro Dump Flare Thing, Stealth Scan, Jet Boost...

 

My wildest suggestion would be a leap, pretty much for fun but also would have small utility. Why not have a Jet Pack leap to a ground target, or to an enemy target, or to a friendly? I really don't put this on the main list because it would suck the credibility right out of the entire list. Its just my 1 crazy thing to suggest.

Edited by DarthBloodloss
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My wildest suggestion would be a leap, pretty much for fun but also would have small utility. Why not have a Jet Pack leap to a ground target, or to an enemy target, or to a friendly? I really don't put this on the main list because it would suck the credibility right out of the entire list. Its just my 1 crazy thing to suggest.

 

A leap to an enemy wouldn't make sense. Mercs are a ranged class, they have no business leaping to an enemy, as the whole point is to stay in range. A leap to a ground target, a friendly or both makes sense however.

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A leap to an enemy wouldn't make sense. Mercs are a ranged class, they have no business leaping to an enemy, as the whole point is to stay in range. A leap to a ground target, a friendly or both makes sense however.

 

Ya, I think Bloodloss knew that suggestion was pretty crazy. (I'm still thinking jump to friendly would be nice lol). I think jump to target area is too ripe for abuse in both PvP and PvE (Jump to datacrons, Jump ramps with no one on them, jump the walls on civil war, etc...)

 

I think the thing the class needs most is an escape, but as other's have said, better defensive CD's would go a long way without risking the Dev's screwing something up with a new skill/mechanic. I can imagine it now, Escape being a 15 meter back jump, only 50% of the time it doesn't go off, 25% you lag back, and the other 25% you jump into a fire pit. -.-

 

Does anyone actually use our crappy HoT tactically?

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yay not banned anymore! :D

 

it seems all my previous posts in this thread have been removed, so here is my Mercenary Manifesto again:

 

- Unload made uninterruptable for Arsenal. tie it to the Barrage proc effect

- A talent box in the Pyrotech tree to make Power Shot instant cast.

- CGC snare returned to 50%

- 4s stun returned to 30m

- Burst run ability, think a cross between Hydraulic Overrides and Force Speed (for the entrie Merc AC)

- Arsenal needs a better slow. Increase duration of Unload slow talent box, increase Jet Boost slow duration through related talent box in that tree.

 

That is what needs to be done to balance Merc. None of these changes affects damage output or effectiveness in PvE. They are all changes to mobility or utility, and to allow us to better combat the onslaught of melee opponents. People will claim that this would make Merc "king of kiting", but against what bads? Melee classes have an overabundance of slows/roots/pulls/leaps/etc to maintain melee range with their opponents. Even with changes like these, Merc would still have an uphill battle with attempting to kite even average skill level melee opponents.

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Ya, I think Bloodloss knew that suggestion was pretty crazy. (I'm still thinking jump to friendly would be nice lol). I think jump to target area is too ripe for abuse in both PvP and PvE (Jump to datacrons, Jump ramps with no one on them, jump the walls on civil war, etc...)

 

Yeah, I guess it could be abused in PvE. It's a bummer, cause it would be a cool and unique escape ability.

 

I think the thing the class needs most is an escape, but as other's have said, better defensive CD's would go a long way without risking the Dev's screwing something up with a new skill/mechanic. I can imagine it now, Escape being a 15 meter back jump, only 50% of the time it doesn't go off, 25% you lag back, and the other 25% you jump into a fire pit. -.-

 

Honestly, I think some type of sprint ability, as well as increased movement speed/removal of snares after using our knockback would be golden escape abilities that seem reasonable.

 

Also, perhaps they could lower the cooldown on our shield, and perhaps make our casts uninterruptable while it's activated.

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Also, perhaps they could lower the cooldown on our shield, and perhaps make our casts uninterruptable while it's activated.

 

You can already spec into this effect as a merc/mando- or do you want to take away a unique facet of the healing tree?

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You can already spec into this effect as a merc/mando- or do you want to take away a unique facet of the healing tree?

 

Agreed.

 

I'd tie an unitteruptable next skill onto reserve powercell, so it's a no ammo/heat unintteruptable cast, on a 60-90 second cool down. If people are worried about healers using it too, it can always be talented in the gunnery tree.

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You can already spec into this effect as a merc/mando- or do you want to take away a unique facet of the healing tree?

 

so? they should make static barrier make you uninterruptable with 5 stacks and cant be force charged (it would be like a small cover system). Concussive charge, should root instead of slow, and return the knockback to stockstrike with root. and then needs a slow somewhere as a base line skill, like gunslinger, and gg the class is fixed.

Edited by xxIncubixx
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so? they should make static barrier make you uninterruptable with 5 stacks and cant be force charged (it would be like a small cover system). Concussive charge, should root instead of slow, and return the knockback to stockstrike with root. and then needs a slow somewhere as a base line skill, like gunslinger, and gg the class is fixed.

 

honestly i would rather have Merc have some unique mechanics. if i wanted to play a sniper, i would have rolled one.

 

we are asking for Merc to finally be made effective, not for it to be made into a sniper that uses 2 pistols instead of a rifle.

 

now that i think about it, why not change the Muzzle Fluting box in the Arsenal tree from .5s cast reduction to 2s cast reduction? this would have the least impact on DPS spec'd mercs, as they should all have that box regardless of spec, and Tracer Missile and Power Shot would both become instants. now, i do think that Tracer Missile damage would have to be toned down again with this (as it as a Tech attack and not subject to defensive rolls), but Heatseeker missile should get an equal damage buff to keep overall dps output the same. I think a 20% damage decrease to Tracer Missile, and a 20% damage increase to Heatseeker Missiles would balance that out well.

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Played 5-6 ranked matches yesterday on my commando. Won 3-4 against pugs, lost twice (close games) to a decent guild team. Led in damage / killing blows in most matches. Solo-killed/capped a turret in Civil War against geared sniper (from guild team). We actually had 2 pyro commandos for a while.

 

Honestly, I'd never complain to see a buff for the class... but it's hard for me to argue I need it. Buff arsenal if really necessary, but assault is fine.

Edited by heechJunzi
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Played 5-6 ranked matches yesterday on my commando. Won 3-4 against pugs, lost twice (close games) to a decent guild team. Led in damage / killing blows in most matches. Solo-killed/capped a turret in Civil War against geared sniper (from guild team). We actually had 2 pyro commandos for a while.

 

Honestly, I'd never complain to see a buff for the class... but it's hard for me to argue I need it. Buff arsenal if really necessary, but assault is fine.

 

Glad you had fun - but in essence what you're saying is that you can beat pugs. Which is what any skilled commando has been saying all along. Pugs don't suddenly become better when they queue for RWZs.

 

Any 'good' guild RWZ group wouldn't have let you kill a turret guard and solo cap a node, no matter what class you were.

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Glad you had fun - but in essence what you're saying is that you can beat pugs. Which is what any skilled commando has been saying all along. Pugs don't suddenly become better when they queue for RWZs.

 

Any 'good' guild RWZ group wouldn't have let you kill a turret guard and solo cap a node, no matter what class you were.

\

 

Lol, this. We don't care if you can kill bad players; anyone can do that. You wouldn't have been able to cap that turret against a competent team. They also would have been on you like white on rice all game.

 

By the way:

 

We actually had 2 pyro commandos for a while.

 

u wot m8?

Edited by Dovahbrah
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