The upcoming (in 2.7.1) Ranked Missions only progress from wins. They are completed with 3 wins for the daily and 9 for the weekly. We will see how those amounts work in the wild and adjust accordingly.

 

Cheers!

Thank you thank you thank you.

Promote competition and effort in Ranked Arenas! Reward skill and success above participation!!

I 100% agree with the reasoning the dev gave for this decision. Keep in mind these are RANKED arenas - you get quests for participation only in regs and thats where rewards for mere participation should stay.

That does not happen in ranked, you're thinking of reg arenas.

In addition to being matched by rating the match making system also determines the role of the character (DPS, Tank or Healer) and matches them with an analog of the same rank on the other team. This means that in the Ranked Solo queue you will always have a character of the same role for ones you have! No four healers versus four tanks matches here! We think this is a very exciting feature of the Solo Queue as it allows for team parity and creates better matched, more enjoyable PvP experiences.

I might be wrong then, since I can't remember if every Ranked game I did was 1 tank 2 DPS 1 healer and it simply refused to pop without that specific setup.

You can already do this now. A new daily quest is not going to significantly incentive gearing up this way.

I disagree. A daily/weekly quest awarding comms gives a huge boost to the amount of comms one can earn through normal gameplay. A player who wins every game won't notice it so much, but a player who loses every game will get almost double what they normally do by getting the Daily/Weekly added to their total. Winners simply earn more than the Daily/Weekly already so don't really value it as much (but they complete it for extras in 1/3rd of the time).

Why do most PvPers not queue for ranked?

 

1) They don't like arenas. These quests will not affect them, since ranked is already a superior form of gearing up to regs: so if they cared about getting gearing up faster enough to overcome their dislike of arenas, they'd already be doing ranked.

 

True

 

2) They're undergeared and don't want to get roflstomped. This will also not affect them.

That didn't stop me and a lot of other players queing during Season 1 even though I didn't have 2018 expertise yet. And quite a lot of regular Warzones are straight roflstomps as well (triple capped within the first 20 seconds ***?)

 

3) Regs pop faster, ranked is not a guaranteed pop. This might affect them, as the presence of a quest could provide the notion of "ranked might pop faster now since people probably want to make use of this new quest". Increase the general perception that more people are queuing, and more people will queue. That's what this quest is for.

 

This is true, but you also need to take into account Season 2 hasn't started yet and people don't know about/don't want to risk their rating in "practice" (though I don't think it has any effect on rating right now)

 

In my opinion the biggest reason for no Ranked pops are there's no reason to do it outside of the Season rewards really, but I think the Daily/Weekly will be enough to make it actually worthwhile at the very least for gearing

 

However we feel that having wins be the only criteria is a better way to go instead of making them games played. This is because of the incentive to play the gamemode for the right reasons (to win) is much lower for someone who is just interested in completing the daily/weekly.

As someone who has presviously had a run of four months to finish a non-ranked weekly (yes, Republic on Jar'Kai really sucks that bad), I honestly doubt that you will get significantly more players into the solo queue that way at least on the servers with dysfunctional communities. Sometimes, the daily/weekly progression is the only reason to queue in the first place, even if you intend to win.

Sure, you could restrict the group matches to only count wins for the missions, but doing so for the random queue is IMO naïve.

The problem with it being wins is that its going to scare off people that are kind of on the borderline of doing it. They might be in all Obroan and somewhat decent at their class and they see the daily and go "oh this requires wins, I'm probably not going to win so I just won't bother"

 

Have matches played is going to attract a lot more people on the borderline and get them into it in the long term even if it does attract a few more "bads".

Why would a "Wins only" mission scare people off? You dont enter Ranked to get a mission done, you either do it because you wanna like it and wanna compete or you do it to get ranked comms faster then regs - and even if you lose you still get ranked comms. A mission is not gonna change that, except to offer a possible comm bonus if you do well.

And if there really is someone who bases his desire to enter ranked upon a mission...well im all good with that person being scared off tbh.

As someone who has presviously had a run of four months to finish a non-ranked weekly (yes, Republic on Jar'Kai really sucks that bad), I honestly doubt that you will get significantly more players into the solo queue that way at least on the servers with dysfunctional communities. Sometimes, the daily/weekly progression is the only reason to queue in the first place, even if you intend to win.

 

Sure, you could restrict the group matches to only count wins for the missions, but doing so for the random queue is IMO naïve.

Well i only speak for myself, but i assure you that i will make sure to have my missions completed each day, each week. So yeah, even if you're right and not many "new" ppl will be attracted, at the very least Im sure there are more ppl like me that will be in queue longer and more often then currently.

Assuming I get to full Berserker I'll go back to regular Warzones and use those regular comms to buy any PvP items I still like the look of (gamble boxes, mount/pets that kinda of thing). More importantly it'll mean I'll finally "up to par" for the current tier, and I'll actually be able to upgrade from Berserker to whatever-the-next-tier-is directly in months/a year down the line.

 

But why have that goal at all, why "ruin my games you filthy noob" to get there? Guild mostly. And because I choose to PvP, and no matter how low people's opinions of me I'm still trying to win, I'm not throwing or afking, and simply because you don't like it doesn't prevent me from queing.

If you have a guild you're queuing with, then getting a properly balanced team will not be an issue. Winning or losing a match will then become a matter of skill and minor gear differences.

I guess the two of us differ in a fundamental way - I don't mind not having the best gear to PvP in. Since I'm basically a regstar, I know that most people I come up against won't have full Obroan, much less full PvP gear. I might do group ranked with my friends, because it's fun to pit ourselves against good players. The daily/weekly might encourage us to start winning, but most likely we won't. Why?

Because we prefer Warzones over team deathmatch and having full Brutalizer doesn't matter so much in regs.

And if/when Bioware implements a new tier of PvP gear? I'll just use regular comms to buy Brutalizer - it takes like a week to get fully optimized for regs.

Why would a "Wins only" mission scare people off? You dont enter Ranked to get a mission done, you either do it because you wanna like it and wanna compete or you do it to get ranked comms faster then regs - and even if you lose you still get ranked comms. A mission is not gonna change that, except to offer a possible comm bonus if you do well.

 

And if there really is someone who bases his desire to enter ranked upon a mission...well im all good with that person being scared off tbh.

This, pretty much.

I might go do some ranked and see how well I fare. I've got the gear, I'm a decent player, but I'm not incredibly competitive. If I can get a good group to queue with and we have a decent chance of winning, then yay. If not, I'd probably stick to regs, because I much prefer Huttball.

Well for one, having the daily grant rating would penalize people for not doing the daily every day. I'm a hardcore PvPer, but even I think that's stupid.

 

Another problem, which you brought up and then pretended to address, was rating inflation. 1200 is the .500 mark for Elo. Introducing a method to increase rating outside of games via quests, without any loss of rating to balance this, would have to inflate this. As the season progressed, the average rating would go up. That would be bad.

Thanks for the explanation Jedi. I think on your first point is a matter of perspective - it wouldn't penalise non-performance but would incentivise more participation!! Certainly there would be a benefit to doing your ranked everyday.

On rating inflation that could be managed through a few different mechanisms - rebaselining the rate of elo awarded after a win and decay on a loss as elo increases. Secondly (and more drastically) it could be done through a bonus 'pool'. I refer to the following article as a good example:

http://Http://en.chessbase.com/post/the-nunn-plan-for-the-world-che-championship

Its an old article but it talks to some really good points around an activity bonus (noting we need to adjust the frame of reference to tor from chess).

Some good points that talk to encouraging vigorous participation from new entrants and continued participation of high elo members are encouraged.

Obligatory "You're just bad" response. If it were 1 v 1 then maybe it'd hold weight, because it'd be very clear where one is going wrong. Less so when it's 4 v 4 and certain classes are head and shoulders above the rest, and certain specs are simply just awful in comparison. That's not an exaggeration either.

 

I'm just not the type of person who dumps their main to reroll a "viable" class just so I can PvP.

It really is that simple. You are just that bad.

Any class can be made to work. You just have to put in the effort

It really is that simple. You are just that bad.

 

Any class can be made to work. You just have to put in the effort

I've been following your replies on this thread and I have a question about etiquette in ranked queues:

Are you supposed to be in full Brutalizer before you start queueing?

Or is it okay to be in half Brutalizer half Obroan (optimized, of course)?

Because I think there might be a disconnect in different people's definitions of 'gearing up'.

I've been following your replies on this thread and I have a question about etiquette in ranked queues:

 

Are you supposed to be in full Brutalizer before you start queueing?

 

Or is it okay to be in half Brutalizer half Obroan (optimized, of course)?

 

 

Because I think there might be a disconnect in different people's definitions of 'gearing up'.

Half and half is fine or even full Obroan tbh. As long as someone is wearing full PvP gear, augmented and has a set bonus, shouldn't be an issue. THe difference isn't game-breaking (Obroan to Brutalizer).

Ok, why the f*** do so many people think a simple daily ranked quest is going to cause all the bads to come flooding in.

Because it will. You know 'that guy' who has to complete every quest in the game on every planet in every area on every faction? Yeah, there's about fifty thousand of them. You're going to get to know them very well... in the rage PMs following a landslide ***-whooping

This is ... unexpected.

IMO, it will probably cause a slight increase in the quality of play and certainly a decrease in the quantity of players. Considering that queue times, especially on unbalanced servers like mine, are already long this will exacerbate the problem. Without a queue improvement, looking out towards summer doldrums, TESO and Wildstar, then doing things like this which reduce pvp participation and increase queues seems like an odd business decision.

It will also have a small reduction in unranked 55 participation - I can't be unique. After we leveled a number of toons with WZ, a friend convinced me we needed to try 55 PvP and we just started the process of getting gear. To me this is a big neon sign that I don't want to do ranked at least on my server. So if I am not going to do ranked, why do the long and death-filled process of getting gear in unranked?

Thanks for letting us know in advance; since I no longer need ranked comms, my alts can go back to converting warzone comms eventually into credits.

Just wanted to throw in my opinion as a casual warzone player who dislikes competitive PvP.

I'm 100% behind the idea of wins only counting for ranked queue. As a casual, I agree that the competitive spirit of PvP should only exist in ranked matches and planetary PvP environments. I'm not advocating people not trying or caring in unranked mind you, simply that the elitism and aggression belongs in the ranked arenas, and not in regular warzones.

This is understandable and will happen to many players, even me no doubt =/

 

However we feel that having wins be the only criteria is a better way to go instead of making them games played. This is because of the incentive to play the gamemode for the right reasons (to win) is much lower for someone who is just interested in completing the daily/weekly. A percentage of the Ranked population would be queuing just to complete a quest and that would be detrimental to the team. We feel Games Played with an incentive (Double counts for Wins) is more acceptable in Unranked games because of the larger team size (less personal impact on if your team wins or loses) and more casual atmosphere.

 

This is our current philosophy on the choice we made but if it isn't working out we will make adjustments where and when possible.

 

Cheers!

The number of people will say 'Ooo, I'm going to learn the warzone now and cooperate towards the objective.' is going to be a very low percentage. The majority will just keep 'kill farming' regardless of what you dangle before them. Or worse maybe they'll just stop queuing; with PvP obviously being BWs main focus I doubt thats the outcome you intend though it would be interesting to see.

My few cents as that "Dreaded PVE-er, who started playing PvP". Yes, I farmed regular WZs for the dailies/weeklies ranked comms and then farmed level 40 Valor, so I could trade regular for ranked to get the ranked relics. I learned a lot in WZs and about PvP, and managed even to buy myself few pieces of, now obsolete regular 55 gear (can't remember the name, but it was former regular comms gear).

Never though I joined ranked, because it would be wrong IMO - didn't have enough gear and experience to compete with fully geared people, and by this I knew, I'd cause my team to loose the fight, so it would not be right with me. (Yes, some of us, PVE-ers have conscience ). But as a " very casual PvP-er", I like the change of "only wins count in ranked" - it will force people to stop running like headless chickens and worry only about medals, but will actually might enforce team spirit and working together - thing that you barely see in regular WZ. Seriously, sometimes I was, even in my crap gear and with low pvp experience, doing more towards achieving victory, than guys from PvP guilds in PvP gear.

However we feel that having wins be the only criteria is a better way to go instead of making them games played. This is because of the incentive to play the gamemode for the right reasons (to win) is much lower for someone who is just interested in completing the daily/weekly. A percentage of the Ranked population would be queuing just to complete a quest and that would be detrimental to the team.

Sweet, the 5-10 people left in the game who take pvp seriously and queue ranked "to win" should be pleased. And for potential other hundreds who may have had an incentive to queue ranked to get their teeth knocked in in hopes of getting at least something to show for it...now have none.

It really would be nice if you guys would take a day and really brainstorm on what direction you want "PVP" to go in this game.

You "only want people to queue ranked with the intention of winning" but yet you have Bolster in Ranked Arenas, just in case "somebody serious about ranked" just happened to forget to queue with PVP gear? Or just to hold the hands of new people just trying it out so don't get their teeth knocked in and have a "bad experience" ? But when they lose and get no credit towards the ranked weekly, no hand holding then and only the best of the best need apply?

It should also go without saying that making these ranked missions advance through "Wins Only" will no doubt encourage queue syncing and win trading, vs if it was just "matches played" you'd actually have people willing to queue ranked and get their teeth knocked in if it meant they'd at least get Something out if it.

I somewhat could understand making a Group Ranked daily/weekly mission require wins only to advance (since there are very few "teams" queuing for ranked under the "Group" queue), but Yolo Queue as well? With the virtual lack of any discernable matchmaking? "sorry, even though your whole team is 1500 or below, you're facing off against a premade team of 2400 because, well, there's nobody else, so sucks for you that you'll get no progress towards this mission, But!...But!...Keep queueing ranked, because your "Only" incentive should be to queue ranked because you like queuing ranked!"

Yeah that philosophy is what has killed ranked in this game. It doesn't just punish those being farmed either, but those farming, since when people stop queuing, the top players doing the farming have no one to play against either, so then everyone who wants to even try ranked gets the joy of sitting in queue for hours on end for a pop that will never come and completely wasting their time. Then it's back to pugstomping regs.

To be clear, chances are high that even with "matches played" there still would be long waits for ranked vs regular matches, but it would no doubt be significantly higher.

I know many applauded you for this decision Alex, and in principle I agree with you as well, but the reality is that there are Very few people left in the game who care about ranked pvp to begin with, so really, it's not a choice of:

"Games with skilled players vs other skilled players -Or- games with skilled players vs mix of skilled/unskilled players trying to farm comms"

but simply:

"Games with a mix of skilled/unskilled players vs skilled/unskilled players trying to farm comms -Or- NO games at all."

In that case, it would obviously be better to have Some games pop, with people there to farm comms or not, than just being forced to troll /2 begging people to queue group/solo every time you want a pop.

For the few remaining players who spend hours trying to get others to queue or schedule to play other teams they know, this doesn't really affect them, since they queue ranked because they enjoy ranked. Eventually though, when those people tire of the effort involved in organizing for hours for 40mins of ranked matches and when nobody new wants to queue ranked knowing that they're going to lose and get nothing out of it by way of mission rewards or match comms, then ranked arenas will be completely dead.

So as I said at the beginning, you and your team should really sit down and brainstorm what direction you want pvp to go in this game with the remaining PVP population, being mindful of New players joining the game. Do you want to encourage people to participate in ranked and increase the ranked population as a whole or just cater to the last 5-10 remaining people who are Die Hard SWTOR Ranked PVPers?

The choice is yours and yours alone.

Sweet, the 5-10 people left in the game who take pvp seriously and queue ranked "to win" should be pleased. And for potential other hundreds who may have had an incentive to queue ranked to get their teeth knocked in in hopes of getting at least something to show for it...now have none.

 

It really would be nice if you guys would take a day and really brainstorm on what direction you want "PVP" to go in this game.

 

You "only want people to queue ranked with the intention of winning" but yet you have Bolster in Ranked Arenas, just in case "somebody serious about ranked" just happened to forget to queue with PVP gear? Or just to hold the hands of new people just trying it out so don't get their teeth knocked in and have a "bad experience" ? But when they lose and get no credit towards the ranked weekly, no hand holding then and only the best of the best need apply?

 

It should also go without saying that making these ranked missions advance through "Wins Only" will no doubt encourage queue syncing and win trading, vs if it was just "matches played" you'd actually have people willing to queue ranked and get their teeth knocked in if it meant they'd at least get Something out if it.

 

I somewhat could understand making a Group Ranked daily/weekly mission require wins only to advance (since there are very few "teams" queuing for ranked under the "Group" queue), but Yolo Queue as well? With the virtual lack of any discernable matchmaking? "sorry, even though your whole team is 1500 or below, you're facing off against a premade team of 2400 because, well, there's nobody else, so sucks for you that you'll get no progress towards this mission, But!...But!...Keep queueing ranked, because your "Only" incentive should be to queue ranked because you like queuing ranked!"

 

Yeah that philosophy is what has killed ranked in this game. It doesn't just punish those being farmed either, but those farming, since when people stop queuing, the top players doing the farming have no one to play against either, so then everyone who wants to even try ranked gets the joy of sitting in queue for hours on end for a pop that will never come and completely wasting their time. Then it's back to pugstomping regs.

 

To be clear, chances are high that even with "matches played" there still would be long waits for ranked vs regular matches, but it would no doubt be significantly higher.

 

I know many applauded you for this decision Alex, and in principle I agree with you as well, but the reality is that there are Very few people left in the game who care about ranked pvp to begin with, so really, it's not a choice of:

 

"Games with skilled players vs other skilled players -Or- games with skilled players vs mix of skilled/unskilled players trying to farm comms"

 

but simply:

 

"Games with a mix of skilled/unskilled players vs skilled/unskilled players trying to farm comms -Or- NO games at all."

 

In that case, it would obviously be better to have Some games pop, with people there to farm comms or not, than just being forced to troll /2 begging people to queue group/solo every time you want a pop.

 

For the few remaining players who spend hours trying to get others to queue or schedule to play other teams they know, this doesn't really affect them, since they queue ranked because they enjoy ranked. Eventually though, when those people tire of the effort involved in organizing for hours for 40mins of ranked matches and when nobody new wants to queue ranked knowing that they're going to lose and get nothing out of it by way of mission rewards or match comms, then ranked arenas will be completely dead.

 

So as I said at the beginning, you and your team should really sit down and brainstorm what direction you want pvp to go in this game with the remaining PVP population, being mindful of New players joining the game. Do you want to encourage people to participate in ranked and increase the ranked population as a whole or just cater to the last 5-10 remaining people who are Die Hard SWTOR Ranked PVPers?

 

The choice is yours and yours alone.

tl;dr

Ranked isn't for casuals.

Half and half is fine or even full Obroan tbh. As long as someone is wearing full PvP gear, augmented and has a set bonus, shouldn't be an issue. THe difference isn't game-breaking (Obroan to Brutalizer).

^this.

I'm above average but nothing special. I understand strategy and (most) abils, but I don't get the most out of my toon(s), pre-press the right things, have enough binds and honed muscle memory. point is, I know what I don't know. a lot of ppl seem unwilling to acknowledge this.

in any case, someone who has real mastery of his class (and mine) will overcome one or even two tiers of pvp gear. I'm 100% confident that someone who knows both his class and the class of his opponent can, wearing min/max'd conq, wipe the floor with someone in full brutalizer. I think that people who claim otherwise really are living in a state denial. but most ppl do not know how to milk everything out of their class or exactly how to react to every other class or have the muscle memory to pre-press the right binds. only when both opponents have all of that does class balance dictate outcome. otherwise...it just band-aids these factors (pyro PT is one such band-aid, smash has been one -- mando heals is the opposite and exposes such players, etc.).

speaking strictly about pvp tiers, the gear gap has been relatively insignificant for about a year or so (at least since partisan). being min/max'd has actually been more significant than the tier itself (because default stats are that bad? ).

Please Please Please make them wins only count, and you need 4 or even 6 a day.

 

We do not want Ranked filled with the PvE'ers in there PvE gear just taking up space to get the relics they want. It's bad enough there in regs getting killed from behind by sorcs doing there keyboard turning wondering where the dmg is coming from.

 

Please make it so you have to win to get credit.

Was with you until you made that ignorant generalization. Besides, you're focusing on the symptom instead of the problem. Make PVP relics not work in PVE the same way PVE relics don't work in PVP. Problem solved.

tl;dr

 

Ranked isn't for casuals.

Too bad you didn't read it, since I pointed out why this will hurt the remaining 5 players who are serious about ranked as well.

Ah well, as long as I'm not sitting in queue for 4-6 hours at a time waiting for a pop, what do I care?

Good that you quoted those guys. If these guys complain why there are no people in ranked, we can point out this thread.

^This.

Seems like the devs are in agreement with the remaining ranked playerbase that fewer ranked matches, not more, is ultimately better. Seems legit.

Not a super huge deal though, Ranked is largely dead anyway. Adding a quest with some ranked comms, for wins only, won't change that. It certainly won't hurt Ranked further, just won't help either. Simply an inconsequential change.

Was with you until you made that ignorant generalization. Besides, you're focusing on the symptom instead of the problem. Make PVP relics not work in PVE the same way PVE relics don't work in PVP. Problem solved.

But then that would disincentivize regular warzones and increase queue times. The devs may not care about ranked participation, but they do at least want people to be able to get fast pops in regular warzones.

Would making the PVP relics not work in PVE make for more competitive regs? Maybe, or maybe it would just increase the queue times. It would also be a nerf to PVPers who do open world PVP, since they'd then need PVE relics to fight in open world.

A better alternative would be to make BIS PVE relics available via daily comms vendors like they were before 2.0 instead of having to raid to get them. That would keep PVEers who hate PVP and just afk through matches from queueing for PVP, but it would allow PVEers who don't mind PVP as much to queue and actually perform during matches without affecting queue times.

But I guess if you ONLY do warzones, never leave the fleet at all, then not being able to use your relics you earned outside of warzones/ilum western shelf/outlaw's den probably isn't so bad.

It would also be a nerf to PVPers who do open world PVP, since they'd then need PVE relics to fight in open world.

As it should be. PVE gear is useless in WZs, so why should gear only earnable in WZs be equally useful outside of WZs? PVP gear is already OP in open world, expertise shouldn't even work outside of WZs, but that's a whole different discussion.

A better alternative would be to make BIS PVE relics available via daily comms vendors like they were before 2.0 instead of having to raid to get them.

And no, that's a terrible idea. BiS gear should have some meaning and people should have to work for it. PVE relics are in a perfect spot atm.

This is understandable and will happen to many players, even me no doubt =/

 

However we feel that having wins be the only criteria is a better way to go instead of making them games played. This is because of the incentive to play the gamemode for the right reasons (to win) is much lower for someone who is just interested in completing the daily/weekly. A percentage of the Ranked population would be queuing just to complete a quest and that would be detrimental to the team. We feel Games Played with an incentive (Double counts for Wins) is more acceptable in Unranked games because of the larger team size (less personal impact on if your team wins or loses) and more casual atmosphere.

 

This is our current philosophy on the choice we made but if it isn't working out we will make adjustments where and when possible.

 

Cheers!

Will there be a match making system to limit people not geared correctly (PvE gear, no augs and/or not stims) from joining? No.

So will there be a match making system so that I would not be qued with clueless (skill wise) in solo ranked? No.

These compromise about 90% of solo ranked games and what determines who wins mostly.

Until there is some sort of match making system were skill is the primary determinant, not RNG, for winning, it makes zero sense that wins only count towards weekly/dailies.

If this is group ranked, wins is the way to go, for solo ranked (which is the majority of people doing anyway) this does not work and is a deincentive to join solo ranked not the other way round.