Yes it will. The net slows your target and prevents them from using leaps, vanish, and speed boosts. Do you know how *********** useful that net will be? This is HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE utility for RWZ.

It'll be something for the Vanguards/PTs who are also getting it,and have always been the darlings of RWZs. I presume like other trooper effects it'll also be cleansable by operatives.

Why bring a DPS merc?

It says % chance because it's probably one of those 2 point talents that go 50/100. And the vast majority of damage in this game is tech/force and all CC is tech/force. It will be useful as hell.

 

Where does it say net is for all troopers? Just because it's listed under the general "trooper" section on Darth Hater doesn't mean it is. If you look at dual saber throw--which is listed under JK on that website--it says requires 2 sabers to use. So it's clearly a sentinel only ability, but still listed under the general JK. So the net is 90% likely to be commando's escape mechanism and it's pretty good. Provides utility as well as an instant long lasting slow.

I assume that 'cuz it's beetwen abilities for all Troopers/BHs and I don't see the any counterindications to be also VG/PT skill. So far as I know BW better and better I'm pretty sure that, if they add this skill to game will be for both ACs (and has 10m range).

I didn't say that attack absorb is crap, but iif compare it with Sent/Mara reflection it's not that bright. Add to it current situation of Commando/Merc to Sent/Mara. First one is nerfed to the ground and useless, 2nd is viable PvP class and still Merc gonna get buff only "in half" as good as Mara.

Yes it will. The net slows your target and prevents them from using leaps, vanish, and speed boosts. Do you know how *********** useful that net will be? This is HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE utility for RWZ. You can literally now guarantee death for ops and sage healers since for 9 seconds they will not be able to vanish or speed away to safety.

Did you even read my prior posts? Have you been paying even the slightest amount of attention? If you put Electro Net on a competent enemy melee, he will keep moving to purposefully ramp up the damage from it, and then once it is at a high level he will put up Saber Reflect and kill you with your own Electro Net. Enemy melee will have an even easier time killing Mercs 1v1 now because even if you get the melee to the point where both sides are at about 20% health, the enemy can use Saber Reflect at the terminal part of the fight for what effectively is an auto kill.

Nor will Electro Net help kill enemy healers. They can cleanse Electro Net, or in the case of Sorcs, simply keep on moving until the damage becomes meaningful and then use Force Barrier. The only character class that Electro Net provides a net benefit against are Snipers. And there the benefit is miniscule, since they aren't going to move when fighting you anyway.

You have fallen into the trap of thinking about all our new abilities in isolation and not in the context of how all the new abilities interact and function.

One guy posts something on Darth Hater, and this thread turns on itself and starts eating each other. Jesus. Lets remember a few things:

Whoever datamined this isn't a developer at bioware. Inevitably, that means they will need to interpret the data they find.

Interpretive liberties include these things:

Electronet prevents escapes. BW haven't defined what constitutes an escape as it relates to this ability. 9 seconds still makes this ability a marauder killer considering you also have a cannon that acts independently of the GCD and is most likely instant cast.

Saber Reflect may very well be Guardian/Jugg only, as BW hasn't released it yet. Even then it specifically states "Direct Damage". This more than likely has nothing to do with PERIODIC DAMAGE as electronet will be.

Commando healers got a nice gift with their instant cast puddle heal now. If it heals for even 75% of what the Sorc's does, we're looking at a seriously nasty addition to the game there.

Assault got shafted with the preliminary data. Until we know what the modifiers are, it'll remain on the shafted list.

Gunnery gets the potential for 2 instant cast abilities. This is actually a nice idea because in a bad situation a well geared, intelligent gunnery commando will net, knockback, double instagrav, demo round, hib, and finish up with a full auto on a target. Thats ALOT of damage to anyone if you can get that all off, and with a long snare time, its more than feasible. Add in the shoulder cannon chipping away that entire time and we're looking at the potential nerf bat here.

Now thats all theory crafting. All of whats being said here is. What I can say is that Bioware threw 'mando/merc a bone. It's all we've ever really asked for here. A bone. We already have to play twice as well as any other AC to be successful anyway. With a few more tools, we're more than capable of demonstrating a respectable capability for murder.

Stop flipping out going "OMG BIOFAIL IS FAIL." Be patient and be realistic. Nothing here is concrete, and all of this is subjective to personal interpretation until it comes out.

Saber Reflect - "Reflects all direct single target ranged, Force, and Tech attacks back to the attacker "

The wording seems to imply single-target direct abilities. DoTs have never been considered direct in this game, so it seems unlikely that the net DoT would be reflectable back to the caster.

I'm also optimistic that the net will be Merc-only - just like the "Dual Saber Throw" is listed under Jedi Knight when it could clearly only be for Sentinels. There have been a lot of questionable balance changes in this game but even I don't think the devs are so out of touch that they'd actually think that the already unkiteable PTs need even more anti-kiting tools...

I am happy to see the words, "we are looking into it". Its a start.

But I'm not sure the developer's really know what a hassle and frustration playing Commando is.(I don't use my 50 Merc at all anymore)

I chatted this in a War Zone this morning. A sith was standing still a little way off frfom the action. I started engaging him in combat. He never budged an inch. After a couple of my heavy hitting skills(stop laughing)I realized he must be AFK. Ok, I need kills when ever I can get them as a Commando. All's fair in love and war, right?

After un-loading all my main skills..im assault skilld by the way...He was barely down 10% of his health. I was on my no cost skill because I'd given him all I had. He obviously came back just in time to join another of his kind smack down to dust in seconds.

So if he was a moving target, comments of my lack of skill could be fired at me. But for all intents and purposes he was a training dummy.

But this is one in a line of many times I've been frustrated, embarrased, and upset over playing my Commando in PvP.

I do have other 50's. Yes I could stop playing the Commando. But why should I have to? I like the Commando-Merc concept, I pay monthly, shouldn't I at least get a class fix that would bring my PvP enjoyment up some?

I have yet to find anyone in War zones who disagrees with me. And most of the time its me saying, Amen to some other commando complaining.

I wear Heavy Armor, I fall like a cloth wearer, I have a BFG that is half the size of a full grown man. Yet my missles,granades,shells bounce off cloth wearer like they were nerf gun ammo.

The Commando is not just a little behind the others, its so far off its laughable. I chased a guy around today and he didn't even bother to give me a second look. he just kept on fighting the guy he was after, and I'm sure thinking to himself....Dang I"m being shelled from behind, haha, oh wait its just a commando, np I'll ignore him, after all he will probably trip on nail and rip his pretty white armor.

Thanks BW..and all you Dev's who are in love with this game. You can treat me like the guy above. "oh look its a valid complaing, hahah, oh wait, its a commando player again, no sweat I'll keep buffing the other classes, he'll give up soon enough, they always do.

One guy posts something on Darth Hater, and this thread turns on itself and starts eating each other. Jesus.(...)

...and because of this we got nice piece of discussion, better than regular "bump for justice" post . C'mon there is no flame war here, no one eating anybody. So our topic and cause still growing.

It'll be something for the Vanguards/PTs who are also getting it,and have always been the darlings of RWZs. I presume like other trooper effects it'll also be cleansable by operatives.

 

Why bring a DPS merc?

I doubt VG are getting this net. They already have a 100% surefire way to snare a target. Just because it's listed under the general troopers section doesn't mean it's for both classes. Look at dual saber throw listed under JK. It REQUIRES 2 sabers to use, so it's obviously not meant for guardians.

I'm 90% sure net is commando only.

I assume that 'cuz it's beetwen abilities for all Troopers/BHs and I don't see the any counterindications to be also VG/PT skill. So far as I know BW better and better I'm pretty sure that, if they add this skill to game will be for both ACs (and has 10m range).

 

I didn't say that attack absorb is crap, but iif compare it with Sent/Mara reflection it's not that bright. Add to it current situation of Commando/Merc to Sent/Mara. First one is nerfed to the ground and useless, 2nd is viable PvP class and still Merc gonna get buff only "in half" as good as Mara.

Saber reflect doesn't prevent you from getting CCed, nor does it prevent you from taking damage. Also, saber reflect is most likely going to be for guardians since there is a talent that buffs it in the guardian tank tree, but there's no mention of it in the sent trees.

Did you even read my prior posts? Have you been paying even the slightest amount of attention? If you put Electro Net on a competent enemy melee, he will keep moving to purposefully ramp up the damage from it, and then once it is at a high level he will put up Saber Reflect and kill you with your own Electro Net. Enemy melee will have an even easier time killing Mercs 1v1 now because even if you get the melee to the point where both sides are at about 20% health, the enemy can use Saber Reflect at the terminal part of the fight for what effectively is an auto kill.

God you're *********** bad. Learn2read. Saber reflect only works against DIRECT *********** attacks. Net is a dot. And most likely guardians are the only ones getting saber reflect.

And the fact melee can't use their gap closers to rape my face for 9s is a godsend. I can kite and kill them now.

Nor will Electro Net help kill enemy healers. They can cleanse Electro Net, or in the case of Sorcs, simply keep on moving until the damage becomes meaningful and then use Force Barrier. The only character class that Electro Net provides a net benefit against are Snipers. And there the benefit is miniscule, since they aren't going to move when fighting you anyway.

You don't know if it will be able to be cleansed. There are many things in this game that can't be cleanse. Root from JK leaps cannot, root from talented sage kb cannot, grav round debuff to just name a few.

Do you not understand how useful preventing someone from vanishing, force speeding, leaping is? Sents will no longer able to camo away when they're about to die. Shadows cannot vanish to prevent dying. Guardians won't be able to friendly leap away. Sages won't be able to speed away. Net prevents sooo many classes from using their escape abilities to prevent dying. A commando being able to take that away is extremely useful for rwzs because if your side has one, it effectively negates the enemy's ability to survive.

Also, the fact that clease is on a 4s cd, and prioritizes older debuffs first means you can easily have filler tech/physical debuffs on target that will get cleansed before net does (if net is indeed cleansable). Easy examples are sniper's and VG's spammable dots.

You have fallen into the trap of thinking about all our new abilities in isolation and not in the context of how all the new abilities interact and function.

And you just like to cry.

look, it is really great that Bioware is finally trying to fix the Merc/Mando class 1 year later after breaking it.

what they fail to come through on is bringing our performance up to the level of other DPS classes. *every class is getting a buff with the expansion*.

it honestly feels like bioware has thrown any idea of balance out the window when i read over some of these changes. what type of stuff is bioware smokin that giving marauder/jugss *more* defensive cooldowns is a good idea?

in the end, this changes nothing. if you buff all classes, youve done nothing to affect the status quo.

it is really disappointing to say the least

I am happy to see the words, "we are looking into it". Its a start.

...

Where did you read that? And is it based on what we're talking here?

I'm willing to be Electro Net will be a commando exclusive while Shoulder Cannon is a VG exclusive (I suspect this given it's range and the buffs provided to it in VG trees. Fits well with Tactics design philosophy. On the other hand I might be wrong since we do we pulse cannon).

Assuming it doesn't proc Saber Reflect because it's a dot (which I feel is a justified bit of optimism), then I think this will have some pretty awesome group applications and I applaud the ability. Being able to shut down escapes period as well as the snare is pretty powerful.

As far as the diversion change goes, I'll say it. Absorbing one Force/Tech attack is absolute crap. It will take smart knights/warriors exactly one day to figure out how to counter it, especially since it's not what you'd call a subtle animation. (Use cauterize when you see it, that eats up the absorb, proceed with killing). It's better than nothing and might catch a few baddies flatfooted, but lets not pretend it isn't still pretty crap. You were gonna beat those bads anyway in all likelihood.

If it seems like, and others, are overly negative, well that's BW's history at work. I'll expect the worst from them till they can prove they don't make idiotic design decisions with regards to this class or class balance in general. If it turns out I'm wrong I get to be pleasantly surprised. If, as history leads me to believe, we're right to be negative and this will all actually widen the gap even more, then at least I won't be sorely disappointed.

As far as the diversion change goes, I'll say it. Absorbing one Force/Tech attack is absolute crap. It will take smart knights/warriors exactly one day to figure out how to counter it, especially since it's not what you'd call a subtle animation. (Use cauterize when you see it, that eats up the absorb, proceed with killing). It's better than nothing and might catch a few baddies flatfooted, but lets not pretend it isn't still pretty crap. You were gonna beat those bads anyway in all likelihood.

Cauterize is melee only and guardians don't get it. Right now, when I use my KB on JKs, they will immediately stasis me to prevent me from running away, while waiting out the slow from my KB. The diversion change will stop that, and that is a good thing.

If you've played WoW, then you'll know this change is exactly like what grounding totem was in WoW. The difference being you can't attack the grounding totem to remove the buff. Using diversion properly will require a lot of situational awareness and frankly, anything that separates the bad commandos from the good ones is good.

I'm not 100% sure, but I think diversion and all similar abilities are off the GCD. This means if you're good enough, you can time it's usage and your enemy can do nothing about it. For example, carnage mara combo is gore+MS, and at the end use force scream for some crazy *** burst. You can anticipate their scream and pop diversion right before they scream. If the mara thinks you're gonna use diversion to suck up his scream, he will wait to use it and guess what? Gore is no longer active and his force scream won't get the 100% ArP, and you won't get crit for 5-6k.

If it seems like, and others, are overly negative, well that's BW's history at work. I'll expect the worst from them till they can prove they don't make idiotic design decisions with regards to this class or class balance in general. If it turns out I'm wrong I get to be pleasantly surprised. If, as history leads me to believe, we're right to be negative and this will all actually widen the gap even more, then at least I won't be sorely disappointed.

If you feel BW is so terrible, why are you still giving them your money and playing this game? Just quit and save everyone the negativity and whining. You can always resub when/if you feel they did make the right changes.

God you're *********** bad. Learn2read. Saber reflect only works against DIRECT *********** attacks. Net is a dot. And most likely guardians are the only ones getting saber reflect.

And you are a troll. Who clearly has trouble with the English language. The most common usage of "direct single target attack" would be as a descriptor to exclude AoE attacks. Beyond that, there are a host of questions related to Saber Reflect. Does it reflect reflected damage from Cloak of Pain? What happens if two characters each have Saber Reflect up? And DoTs definitely enter the picture given the haphazard way their damage is handled by the SWtoR system. Hell at this point it isn't even clear what would happen if you shot an Incendiary Missile at someone with Saber Reflect up. Would the entire 18 sec tail reflect to the shooter since the application itself is reflected? Would only the first 4 seconds reflect with the remainder sticking to the target? Or would the entire 18 sec tail have no effect on anyone since the IM never hit its target? It depends entirely on the way the programming code is implemented - and lest you are ignorant of this fact, the English language description of how an ability works does NOT always square with how the ability is implemented. Ex. Retaliation/Riposte.

I'd still like to know why Demo Round has apparently taken a hit. It certainly wasn't even close to breaking any single target damage records, and commandos had nowhere near the best burst or highest DPS.

Might as well just post TROLLFACE.JPG as the patch notes at this point.

And you are a troll. Who clearly has trouble with the English language. The most common usage of "direct single target attack" would be as a descriptor to exclude AoE attacks. Beyond that, there are a host of questions related to Saber Reflect. Does it reflect reflected damage from Cloak of Pain? What happens if two characters each have Saber Reflect up? And DoTs definitely enter the picture given the haphazard way their damage is handled by the SWtoR system. Hell at this point it isn't even clear what would happen if you shot an Incendiary Missile at someone with Saber Reflect up. Would the entire 18 sec tail reflect to the shooter since the application itself is reflected? Would only the first 4 seconds reflect with the remainder sticking to the target? Or would the entire 18 sec tail have no effect on anyone since the IM never hit its target? It depends entirely on the way the programming code is implemented - and lest you are ignorant of this fact, the English language description of how an ability works does NOT always square with how the ability is implemented. Ex. Retaliation/Riposte.

Is this your first MMO or something?

Direct attacks =/= Damage over time attacks.

Whether something is single target or AOE is completely separate from whether it's direct or DOT.

And once again, learn2read. Net's description says it does DOT over 9 seconds. It's not one of those hybrid spells like Incendiary Round that does initial damage, and then has a DOT component afterwards. Net is a straight up *********** DOT. It will not be affected by saber reflect.

But let's say for argument's sake that it does. So *********** what? I'd rather that melee be 30m away from me slowed to hell and not able to leap to me, and reflect whatever damage net is doing to him, than him leaping to my face and destroying me.

I'd still like to know why Demo Round has apparently taken a hit. It certainly wasn't even close to breaking any single target damage records, and commandos had nowhere near the best burst or highest DPS.

 

Might as well just post TROLLFACE.JPG as the patch notes at this point.

Outside of smash, maul, and ambush, I think demo round does the highest damage. Highest I've hit with it was nearly 6k, and I regularly get over 5k crits with it. HIB doesn't hit as hard and it's got all these ArP talents too. I don't know why it's getting nerfed to be honest since commandos aren't exactly top dps. But meh.

Outside of smash, maul, and ambush, I think demo round does the highest damage. Highest I've hit with it was nearly 6k, and I regularly get over 5k crits with it. HIB doesn't hit as hard and it's got all these ArP talents too. I don't know why it's getting nerfed to be honest since commandos aren't exactly top dps. But meh.

Yeah, I've eaten 5k+ vicious throws and takedowns on a number of occasions too. Nerfing Demo is just trolling us at this point.

Cauterize is melee only and guardians don't get it. Right now, when I use my KB on JKs, they will immediately stasis me to prevent me from running away, while waiting out the slow from my KB. The diversion change will stop that, and that is a good thing.

If they're smash spec it's the easiest thing in the world to use blade storm then stasis. Easy enough to use that on any spec not combat (I'd honestly forgotten cauterize's initial hit was melee. Never play watchman). On combat you can use sweep to clear it out.

If you've played WoW, then you'll know this change is exactly like what grounding totem was in WoW. The difference being you can't attack the grounding totem to remove the buff. Using diversion properly will require a lot of situational awareness and frankly, anything that separates the bad commandos from the good ones is good.

It's one attack. Period. And no I've not played wow past like level 20 years and years ago. Here and now though, you'll get one free absorb, and smart players will make sure they clear it out before using their big yellow damage attack.

I'm not 100% sure, but I think diversion and all similar abilities are off the GCD. This means if you're good enough, you can time it's usage and your enemy can do nothing about it. For example, carnage mara combo is gore+MS, and at the end use force scream for some crazy *** burst. You can anticipate their scream and pop diversion right before they scream. If the mara thinks you're gonna use diversion to suck up his scream, he will wait to use it and guess what? Gore is no longer active and his force scream won't get the 100% ArP, and you won't get crit for 5-6k.

Honestly that isn't even a timing thing. You should knockback and then pop diversion immediately. You don't want to eat the Ravage and once knocked back they're out of ranged force abilities to clear the buff besides Blade Storm. And it's good to know I can completely negate carnage's most easily countered combo without using a stun. I still have to look out for Zen > PS > Blade Rush Spam with a Blade storm in there somewhere. If they anticipate they'll use BS early (if they already have an ataru proc granting auto crit they'll definitely do this. Nothing you can really do about PS > BR spam if you've already used your knockback sadly =/ Root and run I guess.

If you feel BW is so terrible, why are you still giving them your money and playing this game? Just quit and save everyone the negativity and whining. You can always resub when/if you feel they did make the right changes.

I've said multiple times that I basically stay in this game because I like playing with my guild. Even so I don't play commando in PVP and that's because the class is crap in PVP. Stick to my shadow or my sentinel which are both much more usable (shadow the most fun of those three for me personally).

Edit: Pretty sure Dispatch hits harder than Demo Round when it crits, but that may just be the result of power stacking. Also they'll start being able to use it on targets without needing execute level HP on occasion.

Are you really saying that even with electro net the changes for commando aren't very clearly inferior to the goodies others are getting?

If they're smash spec it's the easiest thing in the world to use blade storm then stasis. Easy enough to use that on any spec not combat (I'd honestly forgotten cauterize's initial hit was melee. Never play watchman). On combat you can use sweep to clear it out.

You realize how hard a focus spec blade storm hits? I regularly crit it for 4.5k. I'd be fine absorbing that one too. Sweep is melee range too, so it runs into the same issue as cauterize. When I knock them away, they can't hit me with it. But once again, the fact that diversion is off GCD means I decide when I want it to absorb something. The enemy cannot get around it like they would be able to if it was on the GCD.

It's one attack. Period. And no I've not played wow past like level 20 years and years ago. Here and now though, you'll get one free absorb, and smart players will make sure they clear it out before using their big yellow damage attack.

One attack can make or break a fight easily. Absorbing a huge hit or CC will turn the fight to your favor.

Ok so you haven't played WoW so that means you don't understand how useful this ability is. I know how useful it is because in WoW one class has the exact same ability called grounding totem, but grounding totem was not off GCD and it was a physical object so you could just whack it with autoattack to remove it. Diversion has neither of these issues and it's usefulness will depend completely on your skill and ability to read the situation to time it right.

Honestly that isn't even a timing thing. You should knockback and then pop diversion immediately. You don't want to eat the Ravage and once knocked back they're out of ranged force abilities to clear the buff besides Blade Storm. And it's good to know I can completely negate carnage's most easily countered combo without using a stun. I still have to look out for Zen > PS > Blade Rush Spam with a Blade storm in there somewhere. If they anticipate they'll use BS early (if they already have an ataru proc granting auto crit they'll definitely do this. Nothing you can really do about PS > BR spam if you've already used your knockback sadly =/ Root and run I guess.

It's about absorbing the 100% armor penetration blade storm. That **** hurts like a truck. Regular blade storm isn't nearly as bad cause we got like 30-35% damage red.

Edit: Pretty sure Dispatch hits harder than Demo Round when it crits, but that may just be the result of power stacking. Also they'll start being able to use it on targets without needing execute level HP on occasion.

Don't think I've ever hit 6k with dispatch. My guardian doesn't have +30% surge for dispatch so it doesn't crit nearly as hard as my commando's demo round which does have that.

Are you really saying that even with electro net the changes for commando aren't very clearly inferior to the goodies others are getting?

Net is definitely better than some of the other **** other classes are getting because it's very unique and extremely useful for gibbing classes in RWZ. They can't escape, thus they die.

Saber reflect sounds cool, but it's most likely only for guardians and they need love badly because focus guardians weren't that bad since they're easy as **** to kill, and vig guardians are super lols. Vig didn't really get **** for buffs either. Still only dps tree with no 30% surge talent.

Force barrier is pretty awesome, but it says it's channeled, so you can just luls interrupt it. GG. There is only ever 1 sage in RWZs, so it won't be hard to interrupt him.

Phase walk is extremely cool will will completely change the way huttball is played, but net will neutralize it. GG.

Smuggler roll is just ok because that damn roll on snipers is buggy as ****, and half the time you don't even roll forward and I doubt BW made it 100% reliable. But once again, net neuters it. GG.

And I'm also not sure if commandos will get that shoulder cannon or not because it sounds something for VGs, but at the same time the word cannon is in it...

honestly, there is no point getting your panties in a bunch yet fellas.

all of this datamined crap is great for a basic overall picture, but how can any of us pass judgement on it before a) we see it in yellow text, b) we actually get to play with it ourselves, and c) get to see how it relates in-game to the changes other classes have got.

theorycrafting is great for taking numbers and doing some plug-and-chug math. but when you are trying to predict fight outcomes based on completely hypothetical descriptions (lets face it, thats all these abilities are at this point) there is literally no point.

Saber reflect doesn't prevent you from getting CCed, nor does it prevent you from taking damage. Also, saber reflect is most likely going to be for guardians since there is a talent that buffs it in the guardian tank tree, but there's no mention of it in the sent trees.

Yeah but it's only yours guesses confronted with my guesses . Untill we see actual changes in game we can run this to infinity and still don't get any agreement.

honestly, there is no point getting your panties in a bunch yet fellas.

 

all of this datamined crap is great for a basic overall picture, but how can any of us pass judgement on it before a) we see it in yellow text, b) we actually get to play with it ourselves, and c) get to see how it relates in-game to the changes other classes have got.

 

 

theorycrafting is great for taking numbers and doing some plug-and-chug math. but when you are trying to predict fight outcomes based on completely hypothetical descriptions (lets face it, thats all these abilities are at this point) there is literally no point.

Well stuff that are datamined are usually true the vast majority of the time. People datamined crap all the time in WoW, and most of it became true. I still remember when people datamined white saber crystals when the game first came out, and they eventually got added in lol. But yes, until it's officially in patch notes, it's doesn't mean jack.

Anyways, if the stuff from Darth Hater go through for commandos, I'll be happy. Net isn't the disengage/reverse leap I wanted, but holy crap is it awesome.