"Hello there!"- Obi-Wan Kenobi, Master of Soresu

 

This thread's topic is on Soresu. Master Cin Drallig continues his recording in the Great Holocron...

 

Form III, also called Soresu, was first developed in response to the advancement of blaster technology in the galaxy. As an ever-increasing variety of blaster weapons became available to military factions as well as criminals, Jedi had to revise their lightsaber skills to defend themselves. Originally, the basic principle of Form III was "laserblast" deflection training. This Form maximizes defensive protection in a style characterized by tight, efficient movements that expose minimal target areas when compared with the relatively open style of some other forms. Over many centuries, Form III has evolved into a highly refined expression of nonaggressive Jedi philosophy. True masters of Form III have long been considered invincible; although not always able to overcome their adversaries, no Form III masters have ever been defeated.

 

So what do we know about Soresu? We know that it can create the ultimate defense against ranged and melee weapons. The Form allows the user to make themselves a bulwark against enemy attacks. This is not to imply that Form III users are instantly invincible. It takes a true master of Soresu in order to achieve that. But it is a Form that was created foremost to protect against blaster fire, but with the return of the Sith, Soresu has become an effective defense against the other lightsaber forms. Soresu is capable of defeating opponents who use many diverse forms. Forms like Shii-Cho, Makashi and Djem So will eventually become supplanted by the sturdy defenses of Soresu.

 

This is not to say that Soresu is without weakness. Aggressive forms like the Juyo form and Djem So, as well as Makashi, can also best Soresu. Soresu is best in the long run, tiring out the opponent and striking at the vulnerable points in the enemy's defenses. But aggressive tactics, implemented correctly, can overwhelm the defenses of Soresu. This is, of course, limited to the users of each Forms ability to either push an attack or keep their defenses. This is evident, most famously, in the duel between Anakin and Kenobi. Kenobi's mastery of Soresu allowed him to control the Lightsaber duel and change the tide whenever he wished. Why he did not is subject to debate.

 

The Form itself is a solid defensive Form that has more strengths than weaknesses. It's biggest weakness is its lack of offensive capabilities. Soresu users keep the defensive and strike when a hole in the enemy is open.

 

Notable Masters of Form III: Obi-Wan Kenobi

 

If you missed the previous two forms you can find them here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=544646 for Makashi

 

And here for Shii-Cho: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=544477

 

I hope you all enjoyed this topic. Next is Form IV of Ataru.

 

As always. If you have a topic you would like to see in the future, post them below or send me a message.

Another great post

 

How are these forms (which I'm guessing were designed with the standard single-lightsaber style in mind) used by Jedi/Sith wielding a double-ended saber (or saberstaff) and those wielding two lightsabers? Is there a different "style" of Soresu that is designed for those with such exotic weapons? It seems to me that a defensive form like Soresu would be well-suited to someone with multiple saber blades.

 

In essence, if a duel-wielding Jedi took up Soresu, would it be Soresu, or something else?

Another great post

 

How are these forms (which I'm guessing were designed with the standard single-lightsaber style in mind) used by Jedi/Sith wielding a double-ended saber (or saberstaff) and those wielding two lightsabers? Is there a different "style" of Soresu that is designed for those with such exotic weapons? It seems to me that a defensive form like Soresu would be well-suited to someone with multiple saber blades.

 

In essence, if a duel-wielding Jedi took up Soresu, would it be Soresu, or something else?

 

/\ This, I always have that in mind. I know (from somewhere, or so I think) someone who use Double-bladed Lightsaber with the Form III/Soresu, but I kinda don't remember (know) anyone with 2 sabers.

 

Did you can point out anyone, Aurbere?

 

And great post, keep up the good work.

Another great post

 

How are these forms (which I'm guessing were designed with the standard single-lightsaber style in mind) used by Jedi/Sith wielding a double-ended saber (or saberstaff) and those wielding two lightsabers? Is there a different "style" of Soresu that is designed for those with such exotic weapons? It seems to me that a defensive form like Soresu would be well-suited to someone with multiple saber blades.

 

In essence, if a duel-wielding Jedi took up Soresu, would it be Soresu, or something else?

 

Not to my knowledge. Many Jedi prefer the standard single blade, but those who use multiple weapons prefer more aggressive styles such as Makashi or Ataru. These forms work best with multiple blades.

 

I will note that Darth Zannah was a practitioner of Soresu form, but the form itself works best with single blades. It allows the Jedi to keep a tight form and minimize target zone exposure.

 

And thank you both for the feedback.

Edited October 18, 2012 by Aurbere

Not to my knowledge. Many Jedi prefer the standard single blade, but those who use multiple weapons prefer more aggressive styles such as Makashi or Ataru. These forms work best with multiple blades.

 

I will note that Darth Zannah was a practitioner of Soresu form, but the form itself works best with single blades. It allows the Jedi to keep a tight form and minimize target zone exposure.

 

And thank you both for the feedback.

 

Yes, she, but there where someone elso too, no? Someone huge, in clone wars..

Well, it's something else, I want to know if, when you finish the Forms, you'll talk about the Force, hmm.. Telekineses, you know? Not really that too, the ones who use the force to wield multiple lightsabers (Traya?). People says that this is the case with Tulak Hord, but I really never know much about him.

 

Sorry to just goes around, but that's it. I'm really looking foward to see Niman, through!

Yes, she, but there where someone elso too, no? Someone huge, in clone wars..

Well, it's something else, I want to know if, when you finish the Forms, you'll talk about the Force, hmm.. Telekineses, you know? Not really that too, the ones who use the force to wield multiple lightsabers (Traya?). People says that this is the case with Tulak Hord, but I really never know much about him.

 

Sorry to just goes around, but that's it. I'm really looking foward to see Niman, through!

 

Grievous? I'm drawing a blank right now.

 

I will be doing the Force. I've got a book documenting all of the known Force powers in history so that will be interesting. There will be many Force powers I'm sure many do not know of.

 

Niman is actually an interesting form that I'm sure many are interested in.

Good thread. And I think that a thread on the force would be cool too. Like one thread focusing on the darkside and another focusing on the lightside.

Good thread. And I think that a thread on the force would be cool too. Like one thread focusing on the darkside and another focusing on the lightside.

 

I'll probably deal with the Light and the Dark Sides in that series, but for the most part it will focus on Force abilities. Many rare and interesting Force abilities indeed.

Not too sure but was Revan a Soresu form user. It was a great thread interesting read. I'm going to catch up on your previous lightsaber form threads. Edited October 18, 2012 by Newyankalt

In regards to the use of Dual sabers for Soresu: It would require an adaptation of Soresu to accomplish. However, the nature of lightsaber duels, and the use of two weapons limits the defensive capabilities of the practitioner, primarily in that the defender would be blocking 2 handed attacks with one hand, allowing them to be overpowered easier, or in an X fashion (catching the opponent's saber in the fork of the sabers) which would completely negate the advantage of having a second weapon. On top of that, Soresu's strength is prolonging the fight with stamina-efficient parries, blocks, and counters which will wear their opponent down and cause an opening from exhaustion/ frustration/ carelessness. This isn't feasible with Dual Sabers because the amount of extra energy spent to keep up their defense, on top of the fact that with two weapons your attacks have to be a bit wider, leaving you with more openings.

 

Simply put, Dual Saber combat is far better tuned towards more aggressive or offensive saber forms like Ataru or Juyo.

 

Double sabers on the other hand being inherently more defensive (an example being Maul taking on Kenobi and Jin at the same time) than their single or dual counter parts would work very well with Soresu. The added weight and various ways to position your hands on a double-bladed saber would make maintaining a tight, strong defense even easier.

Is the fight Kinobi vs maul and savage from this TCW season an example of soresu with 2 sabers or is he using a different form in that fight? The reason I ask is because he does use the x'ed lightsaber defence at one point in the duel, but he also does alot of acrobatic dodges ala Ataru.

Is the fight Kinobi vs maul and savage from this TCW season an example of soresu with 2 sabers or is he using a different form in that fight? The reason I ask is because he does use the x'ed lightsaber defence at one point in the duel, but he also does alot of acrobatic dodges ala Ataru.

 

Ataru has some dual blade combat in the form so Obi-wan might have been using a little bit of ataru in that fight.

Soresu, my favorite form.

 

If somebody is good enough at it, they only lose when they want to. (most of the time. there's always that pesky "Former master's former master is far better than you ever could hope to be" Clause in episode 3)

Actually the OP forgot somebody who used a dual bladed saber but was a master of Soresu as well.

 

Darth Zahanna, Bane's apprentice. He taught her to wear down the opponent, find a weakness then quickly take down her opponent.

 

But Form III, if you have your defenses set, not much can beat you. Best described in the novelization of ROTS.

 

 

 

 

Soresu is a very powerful style. I'd almost consider it a conservative fencing style. You just do parrying work until you find that weakness then you drive home your attack, quickly and efficiently with little energy wasted. I mean look at what Obi-wan did to Grevious, he just parried him and then rode the parry to take off two of his arms.

 

Edit: Oh forgot something. In KOTORII, if you had a Sith Lord or Jedi Master. If you had Soresu engaged and had set up your lightsaber properly for blaster defense, you were a walking shield against blaster fire. Infact I usually had 2. 1 for against blasters and 1 for damage to duel with. Like for example on Nar Shadaa when you are the master going after Mira, all you do is engage soresu, put on your defense saber set up against blaster fire and my god. never had to attack anybody shooting at me, i simply re directed the blaster fire back at them and killed them all and took little or no damage at all.

 

Now going against melee weapon people, well have had to switch to a force form or Shi-cho, but usually a force form and just used the force to blast them all.

 

Point is, against blaster fire, my god in KOTORII a properly set up lightsaber was EASY mode.

Edited October 18, 2012 by TalonVII

Is the fight Kinobi vs maul and savage from this TCW season an example of soresu with 2 sabers or is he using a different form in that fight? The reason I ask is because he does use the x'ed lightsaber defence at one point in the duel, but he also does alot of acrobatic dodges ala Ataru.

 

If you notice the acrobatic style in which Kenobi dueled the two brothers, you can see that he is indeed using Ataru. Obi-Wan studied Ataru while Qui-Gon was his master, but switched to Soresu after Qui-Gon died to make sure that he would not fall prey to the Sith.

Actually the OP forgot somebody who used a dual bladed saber but was a master of Soresu as well.

 

Darth Zahanna, Bane's apprentice. He taught her to wear down the opponent, find a weakness then quickly take down her opponent.

 

But Form III, if you have your defenses set, not much can beat you. Best described in the novelization of ROTS.

 

 

At the start Obi-wan and Anakin spoof Dooku into thinking that Anakin is using straight Shien and Obi-wan was going to use Ataru or Form 4. Dooku asks if they can do better and suddenly they go into the forms they know best. Infact Dooku at one point was trying to force obiwan into a form 4 flip so he could gut him. Instead Obi-wan picked off every attack cleanly, and efficiently with little energy lost. I honestly think that in a continued battle Obi-wan probably could of taken out Dooku just because every move Dooku tried, Obi-wan merely picked it off and bided his time.

 

It was then Dooku realized that Obi-wan was a master at Soresu and got GREATLY concerned. Then the battle progressed and he found out Anakin had mastered Djem-so and got VERY concerned.

 

 

Soresu is a very powerful style. I'd almost consider it a conservative fencing style. You just do parrying work until you find that weakness then you drive home your attack, quickly and efficiently with little energy wasted. I mean look at what Obi-wan did to Grevious, he just parried him and then rode the parry to take off two of his arms.

 

Edit: Oh forgot something. In KOTORII, if you had a Sith Lord or Jedi Master. If you had Soresu engaged and had set up your lightsaber properly for blaster defense, you were a walking shield against blaster fire. Infact I usually had 2. 1 for against blasters and 1 for damage to duel with. Like for example on Nar Shadaa when you are the master going after Mira, all you do is engage soresu, put on your defense saber set up against blaster fire and my god. never had to attack anybody shooting at me, i simply re directed the blaster fire back at them and killed them all and took little or no damage at all.

 

Now going against melee weapon people, well have had to switch to a force form or Shi-cho, but usually a force form and just used the force to blast them all.

 

Point is, against blaster fire, my god in KOTORII a properly set up lightsaber was EASY mode.

 

Well, the recordings of Cin Drallig are during the time of the Prequels so I remained focused on the people of the Prequels, but Zannah was a practitioner of Soresu. The double-blade actually allows the user to form a tight defense that dual-wielders wouldn't have.

If you notice the acrobatic style in which Kenobi dueled the two brothers, you can see that he is indeed using Ataru. Obi-Wan studied Ataru while Qui-Gon was his master, but switched to Soresu after Qui-Gon died to make sure that he would not fall prey to the Sith.

 

Great threads, cant wait for tonights addition. My fake facebook profile for swtor lists my high school as "The Ataru School for Unruly Boys"

Great threads, cant wait for tonights addition. My fake facebook profile for swtor lists my high school as "The Ataru School for Unruly Boys"

 

Is that right? lol Very cool.

I think that though Soresu indeed could be prone to be outpowered by a more agressive form like Shien or Juyo, that approach only takes in account the battle by itself. From what I remember, most Soresu practitioners tried to reason with their opponents and end the fight.

 

From there I think it comes the conception that a Soresu master is near invincible. It's really hard to defeat someone if in the end you join him.

 

 

 

The problem with soresu is that it has 0 offense, so if your opponent doesn't try to kill you, you'll never win. If you're opponent is patient too, they can actually tire you out before they get tired.

I think that though Soresu indeed could be prone to be outpowered by a more agressive form like Shien or Juyo, that approach only takes in account the battle by itself. From what I remember, most Soresu practitioners tried to reason with their opponents and end the fight.

 

From there I think it comes the conception that a Soresu master is near invincible. It's really hard to defeat someone if in the end you join him.

 

 

I remember one of the encounters in chapter I of the jedi Knight story, in Tatooine. When you face the Sith lord, yes, you defeat him in fight but when you stop to take a breath you reason with him. And if you play your cards right, you make him join the Order and the Republic. I think that's pretty much a great victory.

 

And I was in Soresu when I played that encounter...

 

People need to realize that Shien in some ways is a spinoff of Sorseu, it added the element of redirecting fire back at your opponents, Sorseu was used to develop Shien (along with a few other saber forms).

I think that though Soresu indeed could be prone to be outpowered by a more agressive form like Shien or Juyo, that approach only takes in account the battle by itself. From what I remember, most Soresu practitioners tried to reason with their opponents and end the fight.

 

From there I think it comes the conception that a Soresu master is near invincible. It's really hard to defeat someone if in the end you join him.

 

 

I remember one of the encounters in chapter I of the jedi Knight story, in Tatooine. When you face the Sith lord, yes, you defeat him in fight but when you stop to take a breath you reason with him. And if you play your cards right, you make him join the Order and the Republic. I think that's pretty much a great victory.

 

And I was in Soresu when I played that encounter...

 

Well, in the Jedi Path book: it does say that the attacks of the Juyo form can eviscerate an opponent's defenses - Even the blocks of a Form III master.

 

Also I speculate that Makashi is a good form to use against Soresu as well - because of the mechanics of the style....