I've read a lot of posts lately with some confused people that don't seem to understand the correlation between fleet numbers and server numbers. They are directly correlated. Yes, a lot of people are in strongholds, or on planets, etc., etc...but that has been the case for the past several years.

When 5.0 first came out, before servers merged, the first couple months there were multiple fleet instances. Game still had strongholds. Still had planets. Still had wz's, ops & flashpoints. After a couple months, and people got burnt out on CXP grind, we started losing population and fleet instances ALSO went down. To the point they had to merge servers.

After server mergers, the first few months had multiple fleet instances. Game still had strongholds. Still had planets. Still had wz's, ops & flashpoints...yet there were multiple fleet instances, because that is where people like to hang out when they are not doing stuff. Lack of content, lack of ranked rewards and season progression and other factors have slowly caused people to take another break from the game. And guess what? Fleet numbers have gone down.

Someone asked me, what's your point in showing the population decline? Well, call me crazy but I want to see the game survive. I wrote countless forum pieces before and shortly after the release of 5.0 that listed many warnings about the direction of the devs but they were ignored or scoffed at, though they have all pretty much been proven true.

Obviously, I care about the game. I take time to voice my concerns. I'm still subbed. I got my girlfriend to sub recently and I've been playing with her as she is leveling her character. She likes to pvp but it's really disheartening to wait in midbies queue in PRIMETIME for over an hour and still not get a pop on a MERGED server.

Your trying way too hard to prosecute your personal narrative in the forum.

For some people.. I'm sure Fleet is the social hub. For more and more players though... Fleet has no real value to them... you know.. people who actually have friends and are in an active guild.. doing things with friends and guild mates....rather then chat spamming and pushing all manner of anti-social narratives. Yes... I said it... if anything Fleet is the anti-social hub of the game these days.

You can ignore the long running toxic profile the Fleet represents to many players if you like.. and insist it is the Facebook of the game.... but that does not make you right... nor will a lot of people agree with you. Of course I consider Facebook to be the anti-social hub of the internet... with twitter running a close second.

I got my girlfriend to sub recently and I've been playing with her as she is leveling her character. She likes to pvp but it's really disheartening to wait in midbies queue in PRIMETIME for over an hour and still not get a pop on a MERGED server.

OIC.... you led your girlfriend to a dry watering hole for "random queues" for "midbies" and you let her down. In case you have not been following Trixxies various state of PvP threads..... lowbie/midbie simply is not a thing for most players now days.. so it would not matter if there were 10 instances of Fleet. Why were you not both out playing the game while in queue rather than camping Fleet?

I've read a lot of posts lately with some confused people that don't seem to understand the correlation between fleet numbers and server numbers. They are directly correlated. Yes, a lot of people are in strongholds, or on planets, etc., etc...but that has been the case for the past several years.

 

When 5.0 first came out, before servers merged, the first couple months there were multiple fleet instances. Game still had strongholds. Still had planets. Still had wz's, ops & flashpoints. After a couple months, and people got burnt out on CXP grind, we started losing population and fleet instances ALSO went down. To the point they had to merge servers.

 

After server mergers, the first few months had multiple fleet instances. Game still had strongholds. Still had planets. Still had wz's, ops & flashpoints...yet there were multiple fleet instances, because that is where people like to hang out when they are not doing stuff. Lack of content, lack of ranked rewards and season progression and other factors have slowly caused people to take another break from the game. And guess what? Fleet numbers have gone down.

 

Someone asked me, what's your point in showing the population decline? Well, call me crazy but I want to see the game survive. I wrote countless forum pieces before and shortly after the release of 5.0 that listed many warnings about the direction of the devs but they were ignored or scoffed at, though they have all pretty much been proven true.

 

Obviously, I care about the game. I take time to voice my concerns. I'm still subbed. I got my girlfriend to sub recently and I've been playing with her as she is leveling her character. She likes to pvp but it's really disheartening to wait in midbies queue in PRIMETIME for over an hour and still not get a pop on a MERGED server.

Stop worrying about people trying to pretend it doesn't matter. It does, it reflects the servers health, always has, always will...don't let the deniers and antagonists bother you.

And besides. who really cares? Yes I care about the game and want to see it survive but realistically what does it matter if fleet numbers are or aren't?

TBH most the people shouting no fleet numbers game is dead is actually hurting it further by providing a negative vibe. new player might see that and be like well... am I wasting my time? and then leave.

TBH most the people shouting no fleet numbers game is dead is actually hurting it further by providing a negative vibe. new player might see that and be like well... am I wasting my time? and then leave.

The game drives people away from it, not people commenting about it on the forum...don't blame the customers for Bioware's lack of development and care.

And besides. who really cares? Yes I care about the game and want to see it survive but realistically what does it matter if fleet numbers are or aren't?

 

 

TBH most the people shouting no fleet numbers game is dead is actually hurting it further by providing a negative vibe. new player might see that and be like well... am I wasting my time? and then leave.

Yep.

But this insistent narrative may all be because he drew some "girlfriend agro".

...this insistent narrative may all be because he drew some "girlfriend agro".

What the hell does that even mean???

The game drives people away from it, not people commenting about it on the forum...don't blame the customers for Bioware's lack of development and care.

Sure their may be a lack of content from time to time and it will drive players away, but absolutely the "customers" drive a lot of people away. And what I said isn't just on the forums its in the game. Looking at fleet chat there are a bunch of people that keep saying no fleet numbers, the game is dead and it can drive people away.

Look at ranked Pvp. Yes imbalances drive people away but so do the players that go afk or not gear or trolling. That is on the customers. Yes bioware does need to take steps to prevent but ultimately that's on the people causing the problem. Not to mention the pure toxicity of some of the players that just sit there and trash talk everyone. No one wants to play in a toxic environment.

We keep coming back to fleet population, despite it's many obvious flaws as an indicator, because it's the best indicator we have, piss-poor as it is. I certainly don't hang around fleet any more than I must, but unless EA suddenly releases its subscriber base to the public, all means to discern the volume of that subscriber base is inaccurate.

The only "accuracy" for using fleet is that it you can track it over time, as the argument has been made, but there is, at the end of the day, no true accurate way to account player volume.

It's just the least sucky technique available.

Re-posting this here since apparently the OP thought another thread was necessary after the last one didn't go his way...

You'll find most of the "fleet is dead = game is dead" posts are by PvPers. That's not an indictment on PvPers, it's just that fleet is where the only PvP daily/weekly terminal is at so that's where the majority of them hang out. We can't have that terminal in our stronghold (though it's been requested) or guild flagships (though it's been requested) or our ships (though it's been requested) and it's not on any planet (though it's been requested). You don't need fleet to play the story, vanilla or otherwise, and you don't need it for PvE groupfinder. The occasional vendor visit is about it.

Perhaps fleet numbers are more of an indication of the health of PvP and since no one runs lowbies and midbies anymore due to no more incentive (though it's been requested)...

Sure their may be a lack of content from time to time...

I don't understand the point of making another thread when you just made one like, what, a day ago? And that thread is about the same exact topic. Ridiculous. What is with the obsession of fleet numbers from FourPawnBenoni, TUXs, and TrixxieTriss? They are flooding this forum with garbage. It's a conspiracy I tell you, they're all in on it.

I've replied to the nonsense that fleet numbers are meaningless that's being trolled about...nothing more. I haven't brought it up first, I haven't claimed the game is dying either, I've only argued that the fleet has always represented a servers health...it always will too.

While i do agree that fleet numbers matter, its isnt an absolute. Not when we have mega guild with guild ships, strongholds, and many other places people can congregate.

I often go to my SH over fleet to get away from the babble when im not in the mood, it isnt like there is anything worthwhile in most chants these days unless im looking for something specific.

I've replied to the nonsense that fleet numbers are meaningless that's being trolled about...nothing more. I haven't brought it up first, I haven't claimed the game is dying either, I've only argued that the fleet has always represented a servers health...it always will too.

I don't diagnose pneumonia with a single chest radiograph (x-ray), nor do I use multiple serial x-rays over days to diagnose it since the x-ray lags behind how a patient is doing, and can look abnormal for weeks after a patient leaves the hospital. The chest x-ray is one of many pieces of data I integrate to determine the proper diagnosis.

Fleet pop at any given time point, or even trended over several days, is the same way. It is one piece of data. It's incorrect to call it representative.

If there were 5 people on the fleet, but you were solo-queued for unranked warzones, and you got pop-after-pop-after-pop without seeing the same players in the back-to-back matches, would you still draw the same conclusions?

*sigh* Honestly, another wine theme?

Again .... this game has a lot of instances. Many people stay on the fleet, that's right. But not all. It's summer ... Most games now have a player descent.

You'll find most of the "fleet is dead = game is dead" posts are by PvPers. That's not an indictment on PvPers, it's just that fleet is where the only PvP daily/weekly terminal is at so that's where the majority of them hang out. We can't have that terminal in our stronghold (though it's been requested) or guild flagships (though it's been requested) or our ships (though it's been requested) and it's not on any planet (though it's been requested). You don't need fleet to play the story, vanilla or otherwise, and you don't need it for PvE groupfinder. The occasional vendor visit is about it.

Though your point is valid some of that information isn't exactly accurate. There are Pvp terminals on the capital planets as well as each warzone has them. You don't actually need to go to the fleet to pvp. The only time I'd say I need to go to the fleet is if I am pvping on multiple characters and I only want to do matches to complete the daily on that character then I would need to go to the fleet to turn it in. Otherwise next pop I can turn it in inside the warzone.

I don't diagnose pneumonia with a single chest radiograph (x-ray), nor do I use multiple serial x-rays over days to diagnose it since the x-ray lags behind how a patient is doing, and can look abnormal for weeks after a patient leaves the hospital. The chest x-ray is one of many pieces of data I integrate to determine the proper diagnosis.

 

Fleet pop at any given time point, or even trended over several days, is the same way. It is one piece of data. It's incorrect to call it representative.

 

If there were 5 people on the fleet, but you were solo-queued for unranked warzones, and you got pop-after-pop-after-pop without seeing the same players in the back-to-back matches, would you still draw the same conclusions?

I've played this game since beta...Fleet has ALWAYS represented the health of the server. You're right...one sampling isn't enough to draw any conclusions over...but Fleet absolutely is a barometer of health. It always has been, always will be. Deny it if you like, but sadly it's true.

I frame the issue somewhat differently. Let's start with a baseline assumption upon which I think we can all agree -- namely -- we want the game to succeed and thrive. At this point, though, I know the overall direction this game is headed. We don't know pacing and / or specifics, but we do have a broad sense.

Here is what we know:

1) Moving forward the game is going to be story-based with options to pursue that in a solo as well as a multiplayer format.

2) It will be based broadly on Republic vs. Empire themes.

3) We know there is a 5.10 and that 6.0, according to Charles, is a long way off.

What we don't know:

Will 6.0 be released as a "traditional" expansion or will it be released piecemeal? Keith has made clear his preference for smaller patches, though I'm not sure this issue has been fully resolved internally. If Keith's preference prevails, we will get new content sooner, but it will be smaller and iterated.

This is a polite way of saying -- they have already told us the general direction -- so complaining about numbers now doesn't really matter much -- we know where they are headed. It is up to us as sentient consumers to decide whether we:

1) Keep playing;

2) Take a break and come back once it is released; or

3) Quit altogether.

But complaining about numbers dropping during a content drought isn't terribly fruitful when we know what they have planned for the future. The irony, of course, is that two of the most vocal critics about how they have handled "Roadmaps vs. 3-Month Action Plans" is none other than Andryah and yours truly.

For some (inexplicable to me) reason they hold their cards awfully close to their vests. Eric's explanation about not raising / creating false expectations is plausible (far more so than his colleague who spoke about fiduciary reporting requirements to Vulkk) but one would think they could provide a broad stroke portrait of 'full expansion vs. piecemeal patches.'

Dasty

Since the game opened they've added Odessen. People can do almost anything they need via the activities window, the stuff they have in their SHs, or kiosks in other places. Even for SoR when you need to be on the the fleet, the passes zap you right to the spot you need to be and then you can zap out again so you are not walking around there very much.

The longer people are with the game the more likely they're going to be in a guild perhaps (guild ship or SH) or have other friends, so again, no need to hang out on the fleet doing nothing.

It's also been mentioned that the gen chat in fleet has become more toxic since the mergers and nothing has been done. Hence it's even less appealing IMHO as a place to hang out, find a group and talk. If I were LFG I certainly would not want to wade through the garbage chatter on Fleet gen chat to try to find one.

IMHO it might be one indicator but it's also an indicator that the fleet has become far less useful to a lot of people and they stay away.

I've played this game since beta...Fleet has ALWAYS represented the health of the server. You're right...one sampling isn't enough to draw any conclusions over...but Fleet absolutely is a barometer of health. It always has been, always will be. Deny it if you like, but sadly it's true.

I've played since beta too, Tux.

A barometer measures a very specific variable, pressure, atmospheric pressure to be exact. It is not representative of the weather. You need additional variables to construct a more complete picture of the weather: temperature, humidity, pollen counts, air quality, wind speed and direction, a visual inspection of the sky, radar and satellite imagery.

Again I say to you, if the warzone pops are non stop, with different faces every pop, but there are five players on fleet, is fleet size an accurate surrogate for the health of the game on that particular sample? It is but one static variable in the equation of "game health."

I've played since beta too, Tux.

 

A barometer measures a very specific variable, pressure, atmospheric pressure to be exact. It is not representative of the weather. You need additional variables to construct a more complete picture of the weather: temperature, humidity, pollen counts, air quality, wind speed and direction, a visual inspection of the sky, radar and satellite imagery.

 

Again I say to you, if the warzone pops are non stop, with different faces every pop, but there are five players on fleet, is fleet size an accurate surrogate for the health of the game on that particular sample? It is but one static variable in the equation of "game health."

A barometer is also something that reflects changes in circumstances or opinions, in this case, populations.

Your trying way too hard to prosecute your personal narrative in the forum.

This summarizes your entire account's worth of posts on these forums.

It's to the extent most people believe you are paid by EA/BW to do so.

The OP makes a very valid observation about population numbers, even on the merged servers. We all want the game to succeed, and hope BW is able to turn things around.