Lvl 86 Valor Scoundrel here and i have been through all of the changes and i will tell you my opinion.

 

First and foremost you went too far in the rounds of adjustments on the Scrapper tree,you took away the whole flavor of the class due to people posting on the forums,and dont tell me anything different it was very apparent.

 

Second the Sawbones tree is fine,but due to above almost all the Scoundrels out there are now healers so in essence you killed a playstyle by many.

 

Either bring back some of the burst damage from our opener's or give us some sustained DMG,and as far as our mirror's and i know some will disagree none of our attacks are as fast as Shiv that the Operative has,we as Scoundrels pay a heavy price remaining in stealth andthen to position to get a shoot first and what do you guys do?

You nerf that and then to top it off you make invis easier for opponent's to spot,Why you just didnt kill the scrapper line in a public statement is beyond me,,OH wait Mr Zoeller did with his famous people will unsub due to teams of Operatives running around line.

 

Guess what you got now? teams of Mauraders and PowerTech's,,good show,good show.

Edited July 22, 2012 by Sathid

Hi everyone,

 

We’re looking for some specific feedback about each Advanced Class and spec. Your feedback here, along with other feedback we’ve been gathering and our internal metrics, may guide future class balance changes. Similar threads will be found in every Advanced Class forum.

 

Here are the two questions that we’d like to ask (please only post about specific specs that you actively play, and don’t forget to tell us which one you’re talking about!):

 

1. How do you think your Scoundrel spec is perceived by other classes?

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

Please answer the post using the same format and in no more than 2-3 sentences per question.

 

This is not a discussion thread, so please do not debate others’ feedback – everyone gets to share what they think. Any off-topic or unconstructive posts (or any that do not follow the above guidelines) will be removed without warning.

 

Remember, this isn’t the only thread we’re looking at for feedback – if you have more feedback than fits the above guidelines, please feel free to post a discussion thread. We’re looking to get some specific insights here, but we are always reading the forums to gather feedback and player concerns.

 

Thank you!

 

I quit my scoundrel entirely. Reasons as follows:

 

1. I dont like healing after playing healer for few years in other games, want to get away from it leaving scrapper and dirty fighting specs.

 

2. Scrapper spec, not enough dmg / survivability for 1v1 basis, difficult to fullfill "harrasser" role, which I believe teh class/spec was designed for.

 

3. Dirty fighting spec, cant get into it due to the extremely clunky upper hand rotation mechanics.

 

4. overall clunky and unweildly cover / kneeling mechanics. Best cover mechanics you have ever done was in ME2. ME3 and this game are steps backwards.

Scrapper_PvP

 

1. OP at lauch, annoying after nerfs, useless after further class nerfs / game mechanics changes.

 

2. same as above, the only reason to bring a Scrapper in a rwz team is to guard nodes, which is done better by a shadow, or to stealth at the enemy line in hutball, which again is better done by a shadow.

Sometimes you kill someone in the melee clusterf*ck and can restealth immediatly, sometimes you kill a healer on the back and can't restealth for ages, despite no one is healing you and you aren't engaged in combat whatsoever.

Opener damage isn't that scary anymore whith most people hovering at 20K HP, and damage out of stealth is weak, has considerable downtime due to long cd's on backblast/ blaster whip which makes the combat "not flow" too well, energy is also an issue.

 

Sawbones_PvP

 

1. Best PvP healer by a fair margin.

 

2. ye, it's the best pvp healer, emergency medpack + emergent emergencies, flash grenade, dirty kick, disappearing act, dodge, defense screen and being able to heal on the run makes us virtually unkillable in 1v1 combat.

Pure Sawbones healer 63 valor ...

 

1. How do you think your Scoundrel spec is perceived by other classes?

 

PVP... generally perceived as the better healers, especially if guarded and carefully managing resolve, your CC's, and cool-downs.. we have excellent energy management compared to Sage..

 

On the other hand, Pug a poor unbalanced team and we are near useless... (guard your healers!!) /rant

 

PVE... perception is Sages are a bit better overall in HMs and OPS.. However, it takes a bit more skill and mastery to play a really good Scoundrel healer and if you have a good one, he/she can hang with the best..

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

Most fun yet challenging healer class to play.. even tho our DMG is weak, we bring a ton of CC's that, if played right, can make a huge difference in PVP or PVE...

PvP Sawbones:

 

I play exclusively PvP heals on my Scoundrel. I find that when unharassed we are insanely potent healers, rarely being outhealed by other classes. Harassed however, even LoSing, using defensive cooldowns (including Vanish that frequently breaks), full self hots, there is little that can be done to avoid eventual death in a 1v1 situation. 30% below spam and hots are not even close to enough.

 

Something I would like to see is an energy costing shield similar to the Sage shield (which would replace our defensive screen). It could still have a cooldown, but be significantly reduced. I just think without guard we are extraordinarily squishy. The class is very fun to play though.

1. How do you think your Scoundrel spec is perceived by other classes?

As a healer (Sawbones), groups/ops find that the scoundrel and sages as the top two healers for operations and flashpoints. The same could not be shared for the DPS spec scoundrel (scrapper). For end game events, all but casual guilds disregard the scrapper's ability to produce reasonable damage in operations. Their utility skills are helpful (droid slice, tranquilizer dart, and distraction), but they do not have an aditional group buff ability.

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

I changed to healer because that was the only way I could be seriously considered for operation runs. One thing I would ask is for the 4 man kolto cloud limit be removed. The scrapper advance class has no substantial sustained damage capability. The ability to enjoy the battle is gone, because you have to watch your icons to see if a upper hand buff/ is about to expire. The same can be said with Flechette round. There are no visuals on your toon to show if these class specific buffs are up or down... There was an audible but I guess it annoyed someone to remove that giggle. The scrapper is the ONLY Republic class that has to hit from behind/flank. In order to use a shotgun you must be behind, or to the side of a person or you can not pull the trigger. The scrapper is the only Republic melee class that has no speed ability to get to/and away from the target to close distance quickly. The scrapper has no additional group buffs, (sorry Smuggle is a wasted ability), or boss debuff other than flash grenade if it actually lowers accuracy on bosses. I feel we were nerfed (as in most cases) because of our burst damage in PVP. I wish there were other options to make this advance class wanted in operations again.

 

Thanks for looking into our class.

 

M

Never bothered posting on the forums before, but figure it will be worth it if I can get the devs' collective ear...

 

Dirty Fighting (PVP)

 

Q: How do you think your Scoundrel spec is perceived by other classes?

 

A: Annoying, if left unchecked, but easy to burst down…

 

 

Q: How do you perceive your own spec?

 

A: I also play a sorcerer, guardian, vanguard and shadow. Of all the ACs I play, scoundrel will always be my favourite because I love their theme (the way they toss a coin when recuperating, the witty banter, humorous storyline, shotgun, etc). I’m the only player I know who levelled a scoundrel to 50 twice (on the same server), just to try out different dialog options.

 

In PVP (which is where I spend most of my time in-game nowadays), I feel like they’re extremely lacking. I can be competitive, sure, but I have to work twice as hard as everybody in order to stay alive, manage energy and put decent pressure on selected targets. If I put the same amount of effort into the other classes I play, I usually dominate the scoreboard. With my scoundrel, I do “okay”, despite the fact he has better gear (1312 expertise with skill augments in all slots).

 

I feel like a lot of the utility scoundrels have in PVE just doesn’t carry over to PVP. Smuggle, for instance, is useful for getting through tough mobs. It’s of little to no value to my party in PVP. Surrender is another example. It helps make the AC more survivable in PVE, but is completely useless in WZs (unlike a tank’s taunt which was given a different mechanic for WZs). The in-combat revive is our level 50 ability, but again, it’s something I would only use in PVE. The same goes for the droid CC ability.

 

I’ve been discouraged a bunch of times, but find myself always going back to my scoundrel because (again) I love the concept behind them.

 

I gave the sawbones tree a try for a while (about a month or two), but realized I just don’t enjoy playing a healer.

Edited July 24, 2012 by agsyjuco

Scrapper: i believe it does not do enough damage anymore, and isn't very good compared to other dps classes is pvp and pve

 

Sawbones: great healing class even for noob healers (me).

1. How do you think your Scoundrel spec is perceived by other classes?

 

I have not met anybody who believes Scrapper is 'low dps'. I am outperformed by Marauders often, but ranged classes infrequently. I'm not the best dps on the block but in the Monitor parser I frequently can bring 1100-1200 on Operations bosses (most recent data is Denova). We have enough PVE utility and firepower to be as useful as any other dps spec.

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

I'm really happy with Scrapper but I wish Back Blast was easier to pull off. Ideally I'd like to be able to use Shoot First more frequently in combat. Since it applies Flechette round it seems like it should be part of my main rotation, but its mechanics dictate it to an opener that's often not worth the effort it takes to apply it on an Operations boss. I feel like Scrapper could be my favourite spec again if Back Blast's mechanics were tweaked to be easier to apply, especially on droids or other stationary targets like gun cannons, where the back is always the base's back, even if the tank(role) turns the turret itself.

Edited July 25, 2012 by Chatterling
I did not follow instructions, total rewrite.

Sawbones. But I'm only level 35, so this is from a <50 perspective and I'm still learning the class.

 

1. How do you think your Scoundrel spec is perceived by other classes?

 

I feel that people think it is the next FOTM because unlike Sorcerers, we can heal on the fly and still have decent DPS. I'm only going off of what I read on the PvP forums. For PvE. I'm really not sure how others perceive it.

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

This is my third character that I took the time to level up. My favorite was my Sentinel. But ever since I started playing as Sawbones Scoundrel, I really like it. I like that I can do damage from range and that I can also double as healer for groups. Plus I like that we have stealth, so I can bypass MOBs I don't want to fight while questing. In PvP, I like that I can be a real nuisance to the opposition while in Take Cover with Charged Burst and Sab Charge while healing my teammates. Those were my main reasons for choosing this class. Also because I already had a damage dealer and a tank, so I wanted a healer to round myself out. I can't comment on the DPS trees of Scoundrel because I haven't tried it out yet. But I didn't choose Scoundrel to be a damage dealer. If I wanted to be a DD, I would have picked Gunslinger.

 

My only gripe is that I hate that Back Blast is dependent on your positioning. But that isn't just limited to Scoundrels. I hated that with Shadow Strike on my Shadow. But so far, that is the only thing I don't like about the class.

DPS Scrapper - PVE: Campaign / Rakata / Black Hole , PVP: War Hero

 

1. How do you think your Scoundrel spec is perceived by other classes?

 

PVE: Great utility for crowd control. Weak sustained DPS and survivability. No group acceptance 50% of the time in pugs because I'm not a healer (forces me to pick up another set of gear and respec).

 

PVP: Merely an annoyance. Easy to mitigate damage with shields/guard, snare/root, push. Not wanted in any warzone with the lack of damage or utility (pull, push, jump).

 

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

PVE: Great crowd control. Sustained DPS and survivability are both weak even when popping relics compared to other classes. Punished for being melee. A good example is Lost Island's Droid battle.

 

PVP: Love the play style, hate what little damage I can do against geared opponents. Almost always need a partner to take down someone geared. Stealthing takes too long: 8+ seconds "in combat" (maybe compromise with 4 sec?) and a 5 second CD for stealth (no CD would be great) doesn't work for a class that relies heavily on it. Dodge needed to be saved for cleanse. Upperhand ends too quickly to keep up. 12 second CD on backblast very awkward from 9 sec. Shoot First CD also a little long. Miss giggle proc. Weak PVP set bonus. Lack of gap closer hurts us.

 

Double the effort of other classes but, half the gain.

 

------------------------------------------------

 

Additional Thoughts & Ideas:

I hate to admit it, but this spec really needs to be looked at for viability. I don't want it to be an easy class to play as I like being unique (I know of only 2 other scrappers geared for PVP). However we are definitely not parallel to other classes.

 

1. Bring back the burst damage for our spec. With no relics and adrenals, battles now seem heavily dependent on gear rather than skill. At least bring back our damage

 

2. More sustained damage. Bring back 50% armor penetration with Flechette Round. Decrease time of dots while keeping the same damage (higher ticks)

 

3. Decrease in combat time and CD's of vanish, dodge, stealth.

 

4. Charge gap closer. Remember Han running after the Stormtroopers in A New Hope? Maybe an added accuracy debuff to target and added accuracy buff to us. Or maybe even better/easier, up our running speed by 15%+ as a passive ability (not in the skill tree / no points consumed)

 

5. Utility and (Funny) Gimmicks: Some other people mentioned PVE abilities not having any use in PVP. Surrender would make for a great drop target ability. Maps permitting, adding turrets we can hack would also provide some interesting game play. Grapple points for tiered maps for increased mobility. Binder Cuffs where the opponent can move but not attack. Tether / Grappling Hook to take opponent down with us when pushed/pulled.

Edited August 9, 2012 by Yolky

I acknowledge that there are many game issues requiring biowares attention, but I truly believe that class imbalances are critical issues that need to be carefully, but speedily, rectified with a very powerful degree of forethought.

 

Having said that I will answer your questions and provide suggestions that I believe are applicable.

 

1. How do you think your Scoundrel spec is perceived by other classes?

Frankly, I believe other classes regard scoundrel DPS as a joke, while regarding scoundrel healing as one of the best healing classes in the game. When provided with a choice between a scoundrel and any other DPS class (except potentially infiltration shadows who suffer similar issues) the scoundrel is always 2nd choice in accordance with class merit alone, withholding player skill from the assessment.

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

I perceive my class (being a scrapper scoundrel) as fundamentally flawed, but incredibly fun to play. The flaw I believe (aside from any complaints about damage, of which I'm sure you've read plenty) is the total lack of any gap closing ability. Other MMO's have historically proven that the ability to be invisible is not, and never will be, a sufficient gap closing ability. In certain phases of operation bosses, the lack of a gap closer makes a significant dent in damage output. It is frustrating to see sentinels leap and consulars force speed toward targets while the best a scoundrel has is to slowly jog their way into the back arc and reapply damage.

 

My suggestion would be to include an ability (let's call it "now you see me...") that teleports you to the rear arc of your target with a similar range to force leap, and similar mitigating factors (such as not being able to target a PC or NPC in cover). It should be said that this ability has a precedent, and it has not broken that game, but added quality of life to the recipient class.

 

I'm glad to see bioware requesting player feedback and I hope to see it considered and changes implemented soon. Thank you for your time.

Edited August 6, 2012 by eldarwinian
Spelling

Others perception: Class rarely encountered. Mild annoyance. Effective PvP healers when guarded. Sawbones easy to fold when caught out of stealth. (AKA die fast when out of stealth).

 

My perception: From PvP mostly. It has been said many times but I'll repeat it, 2x the ammount of work for less results. I literally said that months ago explaining why I was frustrated with this class (2x the ammount of work). I find it interesting that it is a universal thought. You have to work your butt off to play this class right, and the end results are a fraction of most of others. Stuck in combat way too long at times, I've been stuck 20+ seconds. Very stealth relient, and positionally reliant. I feel there is a gap in rotation that could be filled somehow (with something energy efficient).

 

Scrapper unless you are geared to the gills, you must play in conjunction with someone in order to eliminate the threat and restealth immediately. Otherwise you get caught out of stealth, with very little you can do (because your best ability requires stealth, and BB is on too long of a cool down)

 

Dirty fighting WoW the ammount of setup in this spec is rediculous, I can't believe this actually is in the game. It takes soo long to set up a fair ammount of dps, and the that final dps can only be used every 7 seconds at best. The rotation is just not reasonable for PvP I'll repeat set up time is way too long, DoT's are lack luster and easily out healed or cleansed. Very close to useless.

 

Sawbones is viable for PvP with guard and some peeling done on your team. If you are PuG PvP with no guard/friends peeling, you will just run around healing yourself the entire match with a giant icon over your head. (I'm sure that goes for most healers though). It is nice to be mobile and heal, because mobility is essential in succesful PvP.

1. How do you think your Scoundrel spec is perceived by other classes?

 

Sawbones healer. The class is generally overlooked and viewed as underpowered because it requires so much skill to be truly good with the class. Learning to play a sage reasonably well was easy. My commando was only slightly more difficult. My scoundrel is a whole lot more difficult.

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

I love it. I have six healing characters (sage, sorc, mercenary, commando, sawbones, operative). This spec and its mirror require the most skill and forethought. They make a great compliment to a sage or commando healer in EV and KP. The biggest weakness is with large burst damage which is why it's good to pair them with a sage or commando.

Cover system is seriously annoying but I just LOVE scrapper dps spec in PvP

Dirty Fighting Scoundrel

 

1. How do you think your Scoundrel spec is perceived by other classes?

It is perceived as a strange spec leaving people wondering why even bother with it. No one seems to feel too threatened by it in pvp.

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

Unique. I really enjoy that it is a different playstyle for scoundrels. Without trying to be gunslingers, I am glad there is an option to be a close+medium range scoundrel rather than completely stuck to melee. Please keep this idea. I would like to see less reliance on blasterwhip for our UH proc. I would like to see less emphasis on shoot first and backblast to make up for our lack of burst as these abilities don't seem to fit as well thematically with DF

 

thank you

I spec both Scrapper and Sawbones.

 

Scrapper

 

-PVE: perceived by others as a very, very weak DPS role.Their inability to sustain reliable DPS makes them the least appealing of classes to fill the DPS role in a group.They also lack much of the buffs that many other DPS roles can provide.

 

-I agree with others.Although soloing a Scrapper Scoundrel is quite fun pve,end-game PVE we are shunned from any self respecting OPS.

 

PVP: Perceived by others as "Mostly Harmless". Effective against weak,undergeared ,isolated players,but useless is a long drawn out fight,or any class with decent hitpoints/defenses. They are effective in the under 49 Warzones,but in the over 50 Wz's their damage doesn't scale up as well.

 

-I agree with others on most these points,but I personally feel that a Scrapper Scoundrel can be a productive member of a PVP group if they back up heal and remove debuffs from teammates once in a while.I also feel that Scrapper Scoundrels have to be a lot more picky about which targets they go after,and have to assist other players on a weakened target rather than try to go off and solo someone.

 

Sawbones

 

PVE and PVP

 

Generally perceived as a very viable and capable healer,but only at later levels.(Over 40).Which means goings through much of the game's content underpowered.Noone wants a Scoundrel healer if they are doing a level 24 Flashpoint.

 

I agree with the general perception.

 

On a side note--I am increasingly annoyed with the constant nerfs that Scoundrel DPS has received since this game has launched.For months after launch the real issue had always been the ridiculous Crit/Surge rates that could be achieved by stacking Stims/Adrenals ,yet not till recent patches have those items been balanced.

 

Yet,the whole time,the Scoundrel/Operative class have been blamed and their damage reduced! Our damage has constantly gone down,yet the amount of hitpoints that a level 50 character can have have steadly gone up.

 

To summarize:

 

Scrapper damage issues are at level 50.

Sawbones healing issues are under 40.

Edited September 5, 2012 by Joajoa
mistell

scrapper: PVE

 

 

1. How do you think your Scoundrel spec is perceived by other classes?

utterly useless and underperforms nearly all other dps classes and specs. no one in my guild wants to run with him, and they all say i should respec to dirty fighting or just go healing. everyone thinks i'm an idiot for even leveling a scoundrel that doesn't heal.

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

i find it a fun challenge compared to my commando, which i find easy to play. i have hit some decent numbers on ops dummies and HM FPs, but he's never allowed on raids, so i can't really say how good he stacks up in that environment. i feel that because of his perceptions by others, he's completely useless since no one will give him a chance.

scrapper: PVE

 

impressions by other: everyone in my guild has told me to respec, and people think i'm an idiot for playing a scrapper in PVE (or a dps scoundrel at all when i 'should just heal'). he has a hard time finding slots in raids when i have a commando with much more dps potential

 

impressions from self: other than flashpoints and the occasional SM ops, i haven't had a chance to see how he stacks up. i really like the playstyle, but the perception is so negative, i don't get a chance to see what he can do.

Edited September 19, 2012 by oaceen

Played since launch: Scrapper spec (PvP, I don't PVE)

 

Outside Perception:

 

When played right you can absolutely destroy someone in a 1 v 1 situation. Scrappers opening on a lone target is a kin to a scary movie when everyone sees it coming except the victim. Highly hated in the right hands, and smarter groups will attempt to nullify with focus fire.

 

When played wrong, laughable and easily countered.

 

My perception:

 

While I feel the damage out put and utility are fine, the scrapper rotation needs some gap filler and energy management can leave you auto shooting a target. As it stands right now I feel fine when attacking a solo player however (minus open gaps in rotation) when stuck in combat and in groups (after bursting a target) energy becomes a major issue for sustained combat. Now granted if I don't use all my tools (sabotage charge, flash bang, etc) and only use flechette round,shoot first, back blast, sucker punch and pistol whip this may not be the case. However our best defense is a strong offense, so when utilizing all my tools I find myself low on energy in sustained combat.

 

Sustained energy and holes in our rotation are flaws that should be addressed.

Edited September 13, 2012 by pqgarvis
Adding that this is from a PvP viewpoint only, I don't PVE

1.

Extremely dangerous while in stealth, and should avoided 1v1. Easily taken 2v1 when ready. Out of stealth easy kill.

 

2. Low sustained, high burst. Even with this buff, the class is still wanky. Needs a buff to UH, whether easier to get, or Sucker punch deals more damage. Hard to manage energy after burst is done.

Sawed-off needs a big buff. 4% damage is nothing. Maybe make it 10%+, or revamp it to reduce CD time of Back Blast

Edited September 27, 2012 by Luckeyduckey
Wanted to add something