No guarantee, but in all probability the revenue that a product makes determines how much development funding it gets, unless you're claiming EA develops products not based on profit but out of the goodness of their hearts?

"It" being the Cartel Market right? Because if that pulls in enough revenue it will get loads of support

No guarantee, but in all probability the revenue that a product makes determines how much development funding it gets, unless you're claiming EA develops products not based on profit but out of the goodness of their hearts?

That's a logical fallacy.

Just because EA obviously likes profits (as all companies do) doesn't mean that development resources are therefore directly or indirectly linked to any profits.

If EA sees SWTOR as turning a large profit with very small development resources they may well just be very happy with that and channel profits elsewhere (this is certainly what the EA seemed to be leaning towards with their last statement about SWTOR not being core to the company).

After all want management accountant or MD doesn't like to see money for nothing?

Precisely. EA didn't reach its completely asinine goal of toppling WoW, so they held off developing major content for 4+ months to get a secondary source of revenue implemented. I have no idea why people think that, with that on their track record, any of this money is going to be put back into the game.

"It" being the Cartel Market right? Because if that pulls in enough revenue it will get loads of support

This and this too.

Even if there is more money channelled into development, it will likely BE the area that is generating the big spike profits, the Cashshop.

As opposed to the areas which generate more modest but sustained long-term profit from subscribers; such as story, end game, PvP, RvR which are all very expensive with a lower profit/development cost margin compared to Cashshop tat.

That's a logical fallacy.

 

Just because EA obviously likes profits (as all companies do) doesn't mean that development resources are therefore directly or indirectly linked to any profits.

 

If EA sees SWTOR as turning a large profit with very small development resources they may well just be very happy with that and channel profits elsewhere (this is certainly what the EA seemed to be leaning towards with their last statement about SWTOR not being core to the company).

 

After all want management accountant or MD doesn't like to see money for nothing?

You should probably learn a bit more about the rules of logic before claiming a logical fallacy.

A company does not necessarily provide more resources to profit sources, true, and does not necessarily provide additional resources based on the relative success of a product, true, but in the overwhelming majority of cases they do. Furthermore, this is in line with EA's practice with similar products. In all probability, EA uses normal business practices when it comes to allocating funds in regards to SWTOR.

That TOR is not "core" to the company is unsurprising. Everything that EA has put into Bioware and developing TOR is only roughly half a year of profit to them. If TOR had WoW like earnings, it'd increase their yearly revenue by less than 30%. Their initial aim of 1 million subscribers would've been less than a 5% change in total revenue. In the big scheme of EA, TOR has always been a relatively tiny part.

This and this too.

 

Even if there is more money channelled into development, it will likely BE the area that is generating the big spike profits, the Cashshop.

 

 

As opposed to the areas which generate more modest but sustained long-term profit from subscribers; such as story, end game, PvP, RvR which are all very expensive with a lower profit/development cost margin compared to Cashshop tat.

Whether its entirely cash shop development or game development is something that varies more heavily from business to business I'll give you that. Bioware policy on it from ME3 has been a combination of development of market product and content though, so I think that at least some resources being devoted to content development is likely. This really depends on what their financial analysis team tells them.

You should probably learn a bit more about the rules of logic before claiming a logical fallacy.

 

A company does not necessarily provide more resources to profit sources, true, and does not necessarily provide additional resources based on the relative success of a product, true, but in the overwhelming majority of cases they do. Furthermore, this is in line with EA's practice with similar products. In all probability, EA uses normal business practices when it comes to allocating funds in regards to SWTOR.

 

That TOR is not "core" to the company is unsurprising. Everything that EA has put into Bioware and developing TOR is only roughly half a year of profit to them. If TOR had WoW like earnings, it'd increase their yearly revenue by less than 30%. Their initial aim of 1 million subscribers would've been less than a 5% change in total revenue. In the big scheme of EA, TOR has always been a relatively tiny part.

Again though I'm not sure that is true, and again where it is it doesn't mean the whole game just the tasty bits (the Cashshop).

So while some of it may be channelled back in to development, it also may not be at all, there is no guareentee at all.

And it's not like there isn't prior form, Warhammer Online never got its profits reinvested, they quite simply cut it off and maintanced moded it and let it tick away like that.

Whether its entirely cash shop development or game development is something that varies more heavily from business to business I'll give you that. Bioware policy on it from ME3 has been a combination of development of market product and content though, so I think that at least some resources being devoted to content development is likely. This really depends on what their financial analysis team tells them.

You don't have to give me anything, that's how it is.

But yes if they do get any extra development money it is much more likely to go into something with a very low cost and very high profit margin like Cashshop gambling boxes than it is into something with a very high cost and very low direct profit margain like a new OP or WZ or more class story.

Again though I'm not sure that is true, and again where it is it doesn't mean the whole game just the tasty bits (the Cashshop).

 

So while some of it may be channelled back in to development, it also may not be at all, there is no guareentee at all.

 

And it's not like there isn't prior form, Warhammer Online never got its profits reinvested, they quite simply cut it off and maintanced moded it and let it tick away like that.

There is no guarantee that we won't all die like those 2012 Mayan prophecy crazies believe. There's no guarantee that a lot of things will or won't happen.

You're taking a position that something EA might react abnormally to the situation. As such, the burden of proof lies with you.

If you're going to attempt to use an argument that EA operates similarly with similarly profitable products, try to use one that has even a remotely similar profit margin and potential for profit. A cash shop with Warhammer themed items is highly unlikely to be remotely as profitable as the TOR market, simply because of the difference in size of player base for example.

You don't have to give me anything, that's how it is.

 

But yes if they do get any extra development money it is much more likely to go into something with a very low cost and very high profit margin like Cashshop gambling boxes than it is into something with a very high cost and very low direct profit margain like a new OP or WZ or more class story.

Businesses don't think only in terms of "direct" profit. Advertising yields no direct profit. Free samples yield no direct profit. F2P yields no direct profit. Customer service yields no direct profit.

If their financial analysis team is reasonably competent, they'll factor in the profit from retained players and additional players spending in the cash shop due to the existence of new content when estimating how many resources should be allocated.

Businesses don't think only in terms of "direct" profit. Advertising yields no direct profit. Free samples yield no direct profit. F2P yields no direct profit. Customer service yields no direct profit.

 

If their financial analysis team is reasonably competent, they'll factor in the profit from retained players and additional players spending in the cash shop due to the existence of new content when estimating how many resources should be allocated.

Businesses don't think, they act more like a wave of starfish devoring everything in their path (which is why we have so many Laws controlling them - and we don't always success and we end up with the Credit Crunch).

But they'll know what brings in the most profit for least cost, you can be certain of that.

There is no guarantee that we won't all die like those 2012 Mayan prophecy crazies believe. There's no guarantee that a lot of things will or won't happen.

 

You're taking a position that something EA might react abnormally to the situation. As such, the burden of proof lies with you.

 

If you're going to attempt to use an argument that EA operates similarly with similarly profitable products, try to use one that has even a remotely similar profit margin and potential for profit. A cash shop with Warhammer themed items is highly unlikely to be remotely as profitable as the TOR market, simply because of the difference in size of player base for example.

People were saying it WOULD be reinvested, that is what I was disagreeing with , there is no guareentee of that, 0% may well be reinvested in SWTOR.

Actually WARs biggest Cashshop seller by far was their P2W pet, which basically became a mandatory purchase to play the game at the top level.

Businesses don't think only in terms of "direct" profit. Advertising yields no direct profit. Free samples yield no direct profit. F2P yields no direct profit. Customer service yields no direct profit.

 

If their financial analysis team is reasonably competent, they'll factor in the profit from retained players and additional players spending in the cash shop due to the existence of new content when estimating how many resources should be allocated.

At the very least, assets and development that was once directed to the core game is now being directed into the Cartel Shop. The earliest event that was confirmed (by Daniel Erickson) was the eventual appearance of Life Day. And no, not Christmas with the "Life Day" label applied - he was quite vehement about having no real world allusions in SW:TOR.

And what did we get? A non-event with Christmas-specific content forced into a setting that it doesn't belong in. These Cartel Shop items were developed in lieu of intended content, and furthermore, they disrespected the rest of the game world for the sake of making a few cheap bucks due to the novelty of the items.

Not to mention that the development of the Cartel Shop already cost us a 4+ month void of major content.

Again, at the very least, while the core game may see a slight trickle of content, it's very clear that the focus of the game has become the cash shop, and most of the profit of the cash shop that makes it back into the game is going right back in to the cash shop to make even more money. It's a vicious cycle that will slowly rot the rest of the game in neglect.

I don't see an issue.

 

These items are for show and not necessary at all.

 

If you want them pay up, if you can't afford them well then how can you afford $15 a month for a game?

 

It's like someone who doesn't tip a server well. If you can't afford the tip then how can you afford to eat out? oh that's because you can afford the tip you're just cheap and can't admit that to yourself.

For a lot of people, it has nothing to do with "being able to afford it". I have the disposable income to buy 11,000 cartel coins every month if I wanted to. Doesn't mean I'm inclined to do so. The problem is the principle. They are doing something a little festive for the holiday. That's cool. The part that leaves the bad taste in people's mouths is you can ONLY get them through the cartel market. When they are talking about content every 6 weeks, this is not what we envision. They could have at least done something like the Rakghoul event where people can obtain the items through in-game means. What would have been a huge gesture is "it's the holidays, so to thank you for supporting us here's a package of holiday goodies in your mail!". Instead, we get what are basically reskinned items with a hefty price tag slapped on. It's not like they "developed" anything in that pack, except maybe the orb. To turn around and charge $20 for the set? AND on the cartel market, the original price is 3700 coins. THIRTY-SEVEN HUNDRED. Yes, that is gouging, insulting, and bad form.

For a lot of people, it has nothing to do with "being able to afford it". I have the disposable income to buy 11,000 cartel coins every month if I wanted to. Doesn't mean I'm inclined to do so. The problem is the principle. They are doing something a little festive for the holiday. That's cool. The part that leaves the bad taste in people's mouths is you can ONLY get them through the cartel market. When they are talking about content every 6 weeks, this is not what we envision. They could have at least done something like the Rakghoul event where people can obtain the items through in-game means. What would have been a huge gesture is "it's the holidays, so to thank you for supporting us here's a package of holiday goodies in your mail!". Instead, we get what are basically reskinned items with a hefty price tag slapped on. It's not like they "developed" anything in that pack, except maybe the orb. To turn around and charge $20 for the set? AND on the cartel market, the original price is 3700 coins. THIRTY-SEVEN HUNDRED. Yes, that is gouging, insulting, and bad form.

They plastered virtually everything else from the real world Christmas holiday when "re-imagining" Life Day, but they seem to have foregone the spirit of giving.

I'm just reeding some of the 89 pages on this topic. To me this issue seems a lot more EA than Bioware, I know that the game needs to make money to keep going but theres no point if trying to make a profit if its going to kill the Game.

So Now I have to wonder?

How many cartel coins is it going to take to Play as a Cathar?

How many coins to access a new planet?

Should Microsoft should sell a mouse click license?

When the government is going to start taxing Air?

I don't think EA really gets it, when you charge people for what (is) / (was) / (use to be) just a regular part of the game you can and will get voted the worst company in the country.

I don't think EA really gets it, when you charge people for what (is) / (was) / (use to be) just a regular part of the game you can and will get voted the worst company in the country.

Which cartel items which used to be regular part of the game, are now no longer available by means other than the cartel shop?

Just to join the voice of discontent.. charging for life day items is lame on top of having no event or other way to grind out holiday quests... lame.

Long Live BIOSCROOGE

Which cartel items which used to be regular part of the game, are now no longer available by means other than the cartel shop?

Event items.

Event items.

^ This.

And it really is silly that the limited rare items dont come from actual work, but how much your willing to spend.

Which cartel items which used to be regular part of the game, are now no longer available by means other than the cartel shop?

None directly that I can think of (although we seem to have no events now), however remember they did massively nerf in game drops to boost the Cashshop, which is basically the same thing, only spread across the game as a % rather than targetting specific items 100%.

None directly that I can think of (although we seem to have no events now), however remember they did massively nerf in game drops to boost the Cashshop, which is basically the same thing, only spread across the game as a % rather than targetting specific items 100%.

Did they actually nerf drops or is that conjecture?

Did they actually nerf drops or is that conjecture?

Yes they actually nerfed drops, pretty massively too (some NPC drop oranges had a huge drop rate nerf, chests were nerfed and some things that used to drop oranges now either never do or have an incredibly low chance).

Event items.

These specific event items have never been available outside of the cartel market. In other words, it's just cosmetics designed for the cartel market in particular.