Here are the major issues as I see them:

 

1. Ranked WZs caters to a small subset of (PvP) players who want to make an Esport out of MMO PvP. Any game design that is only desired by ~5% of your playerbase is not a good use of development resources. There are far more issues that far more players would prefer to see BW working on rather than a PvP option that only serves a very small minority of Epeeners.

First off you're making up numbers. Secondly, if you've read this thread, most of the people do want to do RWZS. They just don't because of perceived gear, class balance, or lazy issues. Oh and how many people actually do the hardest end game pve content? Not that many, yet people don't cry foul when BW adds in new ops that most people won't do.

2. For all the reasons players hated Arena in WoW (forced PvP gear progression, excacerbated class imbalance issues, excluded class/specs), they will hate Ranked WZs. For all the reasons that Blizzard admitted in an interview years ago that their biggest mistake was introducing Arena, Bioware will find themselves in a similar position.

I loved arenas, but arenas are nothing like RWZs. In WOW, high ratings were the only way to get the best pvp gear, so only the best pvpers got the best gear, which created an issue. In TOR, you can do normal WZs to get the best gear, or do RWZs and lose 100% of your games and still get the best gear. Gear is also less of an issue in TOR. The diff between augmented BM and augmented WH isn't that big. My guild and I have done RWZs on alts wearing a mix of bm/wh/recruit and we still managed to beat full WH premades.

Arenas were also made of small groups (2s, 3s, 5s). Small groups cater to certain classes and causes massive class balance issues. RWZs on the other hand are teams of 8. The class balance isn't as rough here, and the only non viable class for RWZs is a dps commando. Everyone else can be viable if played right.

3. Ranked WZs were badly implemented. There's no ladder system to allow better teams to move up so that similarly ranked teams can be matched against each other, which is in large part due to the lack of participation and could be alleviated to a certain degree with cross-server queues. As it stands, new teams are forced to play against veteran teams, and the result is that one or two teams on each server completely dominate everyone else. This discourages participation, and in turn, causes Ranked WZs to become stagnant and undesirable.

I agree with this. I don't understand why our guild who is 2400+ rated gets team up with random pugs that are like 1000-1300 rated. This is very unfun for both sides, and this should be fixed. Cross server should fix it.

4. There's no incentive for Ranked WZs other than purple-black/orange-black Expertise crystals you can't get without a sufficient Ranking. Most players need to be full WH before stepping into Ranked WZs, at which point Ranked commendations are no longer important to a player. This means that the only real incentive for Ranked WZs is doing them for fun, which they currently are not, or for Epeen (also see #1 above).

What's the incentive to do anything in this game? Why do ops? Why even pvp? It's for the epeen. People want to have leet gear, whether its pve or pvp.

Once again, if you and your team is good, the gear is not as big of an issue as people like to think. Fully augmented BM gear team is plenty fine if you guys aren't bads. Also, losing a RWZ will still get you more ranked comms than winning 3 normal ones.

5. Ranked WZs require an 8-man team that not all guilds are able or willing to support due to other interests or availability issues. Some players who have actually wanted to participate in Ranked WZs are then forced to seek teammates from other guilds, in effect forming a PUG (pick-up group). Logistics issues aside, these PUGs are inherently at a disadvantage against full guild teams who have the benefit of constantly playing together (also see #3 above).

I was one of those players who didn't play RWZs much when 1.3 came out because I couldn't find enough good players to do them with. Guess what I did? Searched the forums and talked to other people, and found a good guild that did RWZs, applied to them, and got in. Now I play them regularly.

Don't blame BW for people's laziness.

6. Ranked WZs highlight class imbalance issues, and as a result, certain ACs/specs (Advanced Classes) are excluded because they aren't as competitive as others. An exclusionary PvP system isn't conducive to encouraging participation, which is necessary to keep it both viable and worthwhile. Unless Bioware is willing to focus a significantly larger amount of development resources on tuning balance issues than they currently do, this will only continue to plague them and erode player satisfaction.

While it's true dps commandos are poo for WZs, everything is very viable. I mentioned earlier my guild team is 2400+. Well we run with a dps sage, healer commando, dps shadow, combat sent. We do run into teams that are like 4 powertechs, or 2 powertechs and 2 maras, and we still beat them. While I agree VGs and sents need a slight nerf and some classes need a buff, it doesn't mean everyone else can't compete (except dps commandos cause they're lols).

In summary, it's my opinion that BW should get rid of Ranked WZs, at the very least in their current form. It's a feature that will only be missed by a very small percentage of players who aren't even getting to hardly play right now, let alone against any real or meaningful competition. If BW decides to push this PvP option forward against the wishes of their greater number of subscribers, then they need to figure out a way to make it much more fun, accessible, and fair for all players who wish to PvP. Frankly, their track record with PvP in this game doesn't give me much faith that they have the wherewithal to make that happen.

In summary, you don't like RWZs because you're bad.

I still play because I have a good team, but here are my thoughts.

1) PUGs and lesser-skilled groups get paired up too frequently against higher ranked teams and get smashed, over and over, until eventually they decide to stop queuing

2) Higher ranked teams get bored smashing lower ranked groups because it isn't competitive, and they get far less rating from it than winning against an equally rated team

3) The rating system seems a little wack, in that it will continue to award points for winning even extremely lopsided matches. I understand it's based on ELO, but right now it seems like it is possible to continue boosting ones rating indefinitely by winning matches where the outcome is basically a foregone conclusion.

4) Certain bugs interfere with competitive PvP ... the random lag spikes that hit everybody in a WZ at the same time right now are a good example of this. Another example is the 'camera freak out' where your view swings to a random direction, which has been in since release.

5) Class balance is not yet where it needs to be for rated play between organized teams

6) The maps are not ideal for closely-matched high ranked teams, Coin Star specifically, and to a lesser extent Civil War

I think what is most urgently needed here is a better matchmaking system, so that people can be reasonably confident that they will face opponents close to their skill level. This in turn basically requires a much larger pool to draw from i.e. cross-server queues.

Also, I think the matchmaking system should probably not just look at who is in the queue, but who is playing in games currently. For example, let's say I'm queued with my team that has 2200 rating, and the only other team in queue is 1800. There is a Huttball going on between 2 teams that are 2000, and it's almost over. Once that game ends, 2 games can be made: one with 1800v2000, and the other with 2000v2200. This is better than having 1 closely matched game (2000v2000) and 1 blowout (1800v2200).

Obviously there are a ton of gotchas with this approach -- for starters, you don't know that any team currently in a game is going to requeue after, and even if they do, they might sub people in between. Still, I think that anything that could result in more closely matched games is worth looking at.

4) Certain bugs interfere with competitive PvP ... the random lag spikes that hit everybody in a WZ at the same time right now are a good example of this. Another example is the 'camera freak out' where your view swings to a random direction, which has been in since release.

kinda offtopic, but has BW addressed this as a known bug yet?

it is incredibly annoying.

kinda offtopic, but has BW addressed this as a known bug yet?

 

it is incredibly annoying.

I don't know. I encourage everybody who experiences it (which seems to be many) to create a bug-report for it in game, whether or not BW has acknowledged it.

Smash, you just saved me a lot of point by point typing, and summed up pretty much how i feel.

WH gear still obtainable without having to get high rating, pretty minimal difference between people in bm/WH except people dont want to spend the money to augment their BM.

And yea, its not fun beating on pugs for 3 points, the matchmaking def. needs some improvements.

You are more than capable of succeeding in RWZs provided you actually get with people who know how to play their class and what their classes role/limitations are. We bring 2-3 sorcs into rateds and can still beat 2-3 pyro teams...we generally say its because they cant figure out which squishy they want to kill first, and by the time they do, their pyros are dead.

There's no room for merely "good" PvPers in ranked. As long as you let the pros stomp on the minor leagues then the minor leagues will quit. Then the pros start stomping on even worse players and it starts a cascade of lesser skilled people who quit ranked.

Sooner or later there's no room in the system for new pros to join and prove themselves. Pro teams start declining and suddenly nobody is queueing.

The system needs to be far more aggressive about stopping this behavior.

-Time spent finding a group is time spent not playing.

-The timing of the server merge (with the wipe of the friend list) made staying connected with non-guild friends (guild too small) tough, and was discouraging.

-"Why bother?" The speed of getting comms is no incentive for me. "Gud fites" are incentive to me, and non-ranked is tougher now in some ways (more newer folks?), and the challenge is the thing.

-Tired of PvP in this game, needed a break from it.

Call me bad, if you want. I just can't be bothered to get excited about "Arena with glowsticks".

There's no room for merely "good" PvPers in ranked. As long as you let the pros stomp on the minor leagues then the minor leagues will quit. Then the pros start stomping on even worse players and it starts a cascade of lesser skilled people who quit ranked.

 

Sooner or later there's no room in the system for new pros to join and prove themselves. Pro teams start declining and suddenly nobody is queueing.

 

The system needs to be far more aggressive about stopping this behavior.

That's something they should have thought beforehand. 1200 pug teams playing against 2300+ teams isn't competive or fun for neither side. Even the regular warzones are more challenging and fun

Guess it's just another thing in the long list where Bw has dropped the ball.

Right now no one in our guild is doing ranked because it is a lot of work compared to regular warzones.

We do okay in Rateds, but the fact is our play caller is on vacation and no one wants to take the lead and do it. I've done it before and hated it, so have most other people. Rateds just put a ton of stress on everyone and while we enjoy it, losing is a big deal and no one wants to be responsible for it.

Everyone I know loves rateds, the problem is getting eight people together. Some people will only play with 'A' class players, and 8 of those are rarely on, and 'B' players get frustrated as they dominate regular warzones, but get crushed in rateds.

To top it off alot of the players designated as 'B' players, have 'A' talent. They just have the wrong class.

For me CW and NC are unplayable because for CW the team that gets the first 2 rarely loses so you may as well call it at that moment. For NC, there is way too much clicking the node involved. NC is more about CC and clicking the node than actually beating your opponent.

The top level rated teams are insanely coordinated to the point its not fun. They know who I am so there no immunity from them figuring out if I'm a healer or not. The moment it starts 2 mara's are in bed with me and have 2 sticks where I dont want them...all game. I am cc'ed, los'ed, beat on nonstop. Its a ton of work compared to regular warzones, and very rewarding when you win, but when you lose its really draining.

Once a team 'knows their place' in rateds then it gets stale. If you play 10 matches and lose to 1 team several times, it gets really frustrating. Even if you beat 5 other teams.

Class composition is way off atm. There are certain classes that just aren't viable in rateds and some that you need 2 or more. It even frustrates me when you see guys with talent that sit on the bench because the class doesn't work. There are too many 'Why take class A when class B does it better' situations now. A players skill should trump class balance, and in some cases it doesn't.

I enjoy rateds, but playing them takes a ton of work.

I don't care about raitings, i play for fun

My guild don't have 8 enough geared players, so if we even wanted to make some fun, we can't as a guild.

If i join the PUG how it will be different from normal WZ queue if not only that i will most likely face a better team&

I don't like to play my operative as a healer, and PUG organizators don't forgive that.

So even if i want to risk being destroyed, i can't find a group NO MATTER WHAT. (if i decide to form my own - noone above completly hopeles in getting a game won't join a PUG started by dps operative. I tried )

I will not reroll, i will not play spec i don't loke, i don't leave my guild to find a bigger one.

I can't play how i want. I can't play with what i want. I can't play with whom i want. So...

So im not playing at all.

I gave up at this game after 1.2. My friend lost a bet and i asked him to buy me a month so i could assure myself, that further this game goes bigger failfest it becomes. And i was assured.

Sometimes though i feel the mood to shoot stuff with rockets. It feels me with strange inside warm when i fire people with rockets, you know... But... my BH is lvl 42 and should i start about the place of Arsenal Mercenary in curret PvP?

I think most people misunderstood the point of ranked warzones in the first place. See, most people saw them as a quicker way to get better gear. They fail to realize just who the "target audience" for ranked WZs really is.

It's not far removed from moving up to college athletics from high school sports. Yeah, little league through high school was fun and all, but in college its about competition and working as a team to win. There's no room for those who want it to be easy, much the same as ranked WZs.

There is no good reason to have solo queues for ranked, in my opinion. Most people asking for them just want a quicker way to get ranked comms. You'll either get a group of randoms, which means it's just a regular WZ with (I assume) better rewards, or you run into a real ranked team and get curb-stomped.

Anyways, to answer the tread topic: I don't play ranked because...

1) I'm not in the "target audience" for ranked

2) Getting fully augmented WH gear isn't a carrot I'm chasing

There's no room for merely "good" PvPers in ranked. As long as you let the pros stomp on the minor leagues then the minor leagues will quit. Then the pros start stomping on even worse players and it starts a cascade of lesser skilled people who quit ranked.

 

Sooner or later there's no room in the system for new pros to join and prove themselves. Pro teams start declining and suddenly nobody is queueing.

 

The system needs to be far more aggressive about stopping this behavior.

All knew this was going to happen the moment Bioware announced their matchmaking system to become "more flexible" if teams of comparable ranking were not in the queue. Popping queues as fast as possible only favors the high ranking teams, because they get to chew on PUG and lower rated teams. That discourages newer teams from forming. The system as it is now is self defeating. It is the cause of its own demise, much like Bioware's management of this game is the cause of their own demise.

Kind of defeats the purpose of ranked. Why would you ever want to trust a pug with your rating? And knowing BW the solo and group ranked queue's are going to be in the same queue anyways. Then instead of people QQing about 4 man premades (lmao) they will be getting steamrolled by full teams as the full premade doesn't have to worry about the lottery queue with the 4 randoms they get stuck with in normal warzones.

Isn't that what is happening already with many people? They can't get an 8 man team so they have to PuG one. Not much difference then if we could solo q. At least rwz would pop faster.

Not fun, stacked classes, "elite only" mentality ("Must be Full WH augmented only plzkthx")... ranked is a very "nitch" pvp style.. its for the hardcore pvp guilds that setup chalk boards for huttball tactics.

instead, everyone just sits mid and farms kills.. >_<

Because there's no Solo Queue for Ranked. I've long said that premades ruin the PVP experience in this game, and 8-man premades make it so much worse than the 4-man premades. The levels of population required to support Ranked are much higher than the current maximum capacity.

DROP HARD-WIRED PREMADES IN ALL FORMS AND SHAPES!

No solo for ranked.

I like to play with randoms - never know what can happen. It can make me angry or make me laugh or..any way, each new fight is really new. So I don't feel like I got one more job.

I tried 3 times of RWZ with "premade-randoms". I could do more but usually ppl want something before it starts like "have brain, hands and mambla". I hate such, so I ignore it.

Any way, this system needs something like current FP finder works. It should allow single players to queue. Simple fix could be, randoms always fight vs randoms. If there is no more randoms for long time it starts vs premades. Same for premades.

Other reason is usability. I don't sit near computer all the day. After each fight I'm going to window for couple mins, so it's delay for team. I never used "queue warzone" old checkbox and had uncheck all the time. I like that it's removed

I don't play well with others.

It's why I made an Operative.

I'm trying to get in on some ranked PvP but so far I keep missing the opportunities to play with my guild since I play odd hours or am working on an alt leveling or pvp'ing to make my alt's viable for 50's pvp. I asked my guild in guikd chat the other day but I believe they had just got done playing a bunch of matches.

My main guild does a lot of PvP but are trying to focus on end game content it seems. My alt guild....well I haven't done anything with them except a pvp match when I was first invited 2 months ago. I've chatted with them a few times but we seem to be slow going at the moment for ops and pvp. I am looking forward to rwz tho because I love competition and I think it makes you a better all around player in pve and pvp.

BM can be augmented. Why does no one factor that in whenever they do stat math on the gear difference? A lot of folks have BM/WH mix, all augmented, which is pretty viable.

You're right, it is possible and some people with creds to burn do augment their BM gear, but it's cost prohibitive and a huge waste of money if you're not pulling the mods and putting them into some other moddable gear since you have to turn in your BM gear to get WH gear. Most players don't augment their BM gear.

Then Bioware shouldn't have made it the fastest way to obtain the gear you need for competitive play. They probably didn't "miss" this, they are probably encouraging ranked participation. If both factions are running some pug teams, it should be fair, no? Perhaps all that is needed is better match making.

That's not a very safe assumption that it was intended, since Bioware has a demonstrated propensity for unintended game mechanics. The Ilum Valor farming bug was a prime example of this. And even if that's true, in the current Ranked system you are facing one of two guild teams with 2k+ rating that are simply going to embarass your PUG. You're not likely to be matched against another PUG of equal Rank because most players are avoiding Ranked WZs like it's the Ebola virus.

I am reasonably certain this not true. From the moment the ranked queue pops, if you decline the queue or leave the match for any reason, including a disconnect, your rating is impacted exactly as it would have been if you'd lost. Anyone confirm?

I could be wrong about this, but I was on a team once that pulled this and stated that as the reason for doing so. I decided to stay in the WZ because after all the beat downs I got that match, I wanted to at least walk away with some Rated comms for my troubles.

I think most people misunderstood the point of ranked warzones in the first place. See, most people saw them as a quicker way to get better gear. They fail to realize just who the "target audience" for ranked WZs really is.

 

It's not far removed from moving up to college athletics from high school sports. Yeah, little league through high school was fun and all, but in college its about competition and working as a team to win. There's no room for those who want it to be easy, much the same as ranked WZs.

WZ is NOT the place to "play as a team". It must be some world pvp with good rewards. WZ is just a "gym" where you can do some training before real fight. Some ppl will stay here solo forever, some will move on as a team. But just answer fair - when your team will have top PVP set completed, how long can you play same locations for nothing?

As opposite, when you do with PuGs you always have fun since you must think not only about your class but divine others in team.

Ranked PVP is really good part of game if you have 8-man geared premade at voice. At least on our server it's competitive, fun and so on.

If you don't have guild/friends premade, well, what did you expect? Of course you'll be destroyed in pugs.

Solo queue with a separate ranking will be a huge addition to current system.