If having your back turned does not prevent you from hitting the enemy, I'm pretty sure Darkness can beat Deception even with the Darkness having his back exposed the entire time.

Darkness is probably too strong right now, though Deception is slightly weak (compared to the average DPS) due to nonexistent survivality.

The screenshot Upzie uploaded is a very good illustration of why Darkness is strong. The numbers aren't super impressive absolutely but if you look at them compared to rest of the team, it's incredibly high. You can get those numbers in virtually every game with minimal support, and if you're supported at all you can certainly do even better. Even if you've a top Marauder on the same team, he'd going to put up a similarly range in DPS, except he can't Guard and generally have less utility than you. You're always competitive for the top DPS spot while providing tremendous utility at the same time. It doens't guaranteed you'll win the game but it's about as an advantageous spot as you can possibly put yourself in.

People seem to assume that healing somehow fixes survivality. It does not. Healing in this game is weak overall. It is not possible to have a game with no deaths on your entire team even with good healers. Since you cannot prevent all deaths to begin with, the healers will tend to work on saving the guys who are the hardest to kill while still doing good DPS, because that's the guys they're most likely able to save. Put it this way, let's compare Deception to Marauder. Marauder seems to do slighlty more DPS and is harder to kill, and yet they still end up dying a lot in most games. Why would a healer have any reason to heal a Deception Assassin over a Marauder who is better in every way but still dies plenty of times? A death saved on a Marauder is by definition always more useful than a death saved on Deception, and it's going to be easier to save a death on a Marauder than a Deception too.

Clearly you havent played much deception lately, yes ofcos darkness is a faceroll "i got 4 spells i'm using" newbie build which everyone can do. And ofcos darkness has more utilllity in team games. But still for 1v1's its a *********** blast... darkness makes me wanna slith my throat.

btw. this IS a personal preference:D

Clearly you havent played much deception lately, yes ofcos darkness is a faceroll "i got 4 spells i'm using" newbie build which everyone can do. And ofcos darkness has more utilllity in team games. But still for 1v1's its a *********** blast... darkness makes me wanna slith my throat.

 

btw. this IS a personal preference:D

ye cause deception got so many buttons ....

Your clearly missing the fact that no one says your bad cause your playing deception, ppl are saying your choosing to play a weak specc.

Its not like its harder to play deception than it is to play darkness, what a bunch of nonsens.

ye cause deception got so many buttons ....

 

Your clearly missing the fact that no one says your bad cause your playing deception, ppl are saying your choosing to play a weak specc.

 

Its not like its harder to play deception than it is to play darkness, what a bunch of nonsens.

The only reason Darkness is 'easier' is that when you can kill people using 3 buttons you can do stuff like forgetting you have CDs and just press 3 buttons. If you tried that with Deception you'll usually have your face rearranged very quickly. It doesn't mean Darkness can't use the same CDs, it's just they usually don't even have to bother with them at all. For example I almost never use Spike in Darkness unless it's against a Merc healer to deal with their bubble. It doesn't mean I can't use it but I have no reason to need it against any other class.

The basic Deception rotation is just VSX2, Shock, Maul/Discharge whenever applicable, which is not very different from a Darkness rotation of Wither/Shock/FL. Difference is that you also need every one of your cooldowns in Deception to put up a reasonable performance, while Darkness can do pretty well without them (but he can always use the same CDs if he wanted to).

The only reason Darkness is 'easier' is that when you can kill people using 3 buttons you can do stuff like forgetting you have CDs and just press 3 buttons. If you tried that with Deception you'll usually have your face rearranged very quickly. It doesn't mean Darkness can't use the same CDs, it's just they usually don't even have to bother with them at all. For example I almost never use Spike in Darkness unless it's against a Merc healer to deal with their bubble. It doesn't mean I can't use it but I have no reason to need it against any other class.

 

The basic Deception rotation is just VSX2, Shock, Maul/Discharge whenever applicable, which is not very different from a Darkness rotation of Wither/Shock/FL. Difference is that you also need every one of your cooldowns in Deception to put up a reasonable performance, while Darkness can do pretty well without them (but he can always use the same CDs if he wanted to).

Voltaic Slash, Shock, Discharge.

Woot Deception is hard.

I prefer balance over kinetic combat, yes kc may be stronger but balance is fun and puts up impressive numbers, the other night I litteraly fell asleep in a warzone playing kinetic combat, now granted I worked a 12 hour day and was really drunk but still I fell asleep!

Numbers mean nothing.

When you get to a really high level of pvp Madness and deception have no place in pvp.

Darkness is a fully viable "very powerful" spec, and works the best out of the 3.

Voltaic Slash, Shock, Discharge.

 

Woot Deception is hard.

Erm....what?

If you only used those three abilities you'd lose every fight miserably and deservedly so....do you even know how the spec works?

Just to point out, the argument of picking your battles has no place in discussing WZs. If you get to pick your battles like that, you're playing bad teams anyways.

The main problem between darkness and deception is utility. Aside form the survivability, you get more stuns and pull. Utility is everything in a WZ. I can (and have) pull the same numbers as both specs, simply because as deception I can still go dark charge for survivability, and guard for the medals (or ZOMG protecting a healer or flagger). I can sit at either end of the field in huttball and control the game to defend or cherry pick goals, because the other team simply cant spare enough resources to remove me. I can defend a turret or door against most of a team just long enough for someone else to arrive to continue interrupting. Instead of trying to smash my head against that healer, I can move him to the other side of the battle, and then deal with him as I please. with mind trap/force pull and then recklessness, i moved the 'stealth side' door defender so far away, he couldn't get back in time to stop an instant bombing of the first door in voidstar. None of this is bragging, I'm terrible at pvp. I've just learned to play strengths. darkness has a much larger bag of tricks.

I would be happy if deception were a bit stronger. I have no problem being a glass cannon, until I see other cannons that are less glass, the same amount of cannon, and their cannon actually shoots instead of being a club. On the other end of the spectrum, force pull alone would make me never leave deception if I had it. If picking my battles is going to be the argument, I'd like to be able to force them just a little.

Also the reason a deception assassin should never beat a darkness assassin IS that utility. As it has been pointed out multiple times, deception relies on proper use of buttons. These particular buttons all have short time in play. A semi intelligent darkness assassin will either shell up or lock you down when you use your buttons.

Pretty sure Im playing the class right. And if you are doing 400k in a warzone you are in a premade being gaurded with heals or playing against undergeared players. Assasins on average crit for no more than 3.5k, where as scoundrels and ops are hitting for 4.5k to 5.5k on average. I would like to know what servers you guys are on doing all this damage in deception spec.

what is your gear like if you are only critting 3.5k as deception? Are you proc watching and poping relics/adrenals when everything lines up for a kill? Do you seek out the expertise buffs whenever you can to keep up your dmg? Do you use your interupts effectivly? Do you use spike as a dmg CD as well as a interrupt?

Do you use the proper rotation?

vs,vs, maul?>shock,discharge

I hate the deception tree due to its simplicity of play style but respect it due to the skill that is needed to play it at a pro level. If you are having issues with the spec i suggest more research into it.

I have battlemaster gear. But I try alot of diffrent gear combinations because running full BM seems no diffrent than running custom armor configs. I spent days replaying fraps of wz in diffrent gear to see what was going on. As far as my rotation, it is a follows:

1. Spike

2. VS

3. VS

4. Jolt, force slow or 4 sec stun as needed

5. Pop all buffs

6. Shock

7. Discharge

8. Stun (Elec) if needed

9. Maul if EW procs

10.Depending on health of target, restart rotation or move to step 11

11.Assasinate if Im not dead. ( This ability lacks dps to be a finisher.)

While doing this of course my target isnt just sitting there lol. And of course, our attacks don't apply dots like other classes. Also, if I get knocked back it sorta screws up the rotation. Not to mention running out of force. Maul is useless. Exploit weakness takes to long to proc and maul doesnt always fire. (Required condition not met). Also you dont have time to wait for 5 charges to max damage output.

A smuggler or op would have you dead in 3 to 4 attacks or have you running.

I still do not see deception assasins criting for more than 4.3k max in a wz, and that 4.3k is against a fresh 50. Sometimes I will see a dection assasin topping out a 260k damage and 3.9k crit in a wz, but those are the top assasins running with their guildmates.

So you guys hitting 400k and 7k crits in wz deception speced, please share you rotation and strat.

Deception assassins aren't bad if played well, just like operatives. They aren't weak by any means, and can take half your health in the blink of an eye. The problem is that the tank spec is over performing.

Actually the problem is that most pug healers are just kinda bad.

For GOOD healers you NEED burst dps and a deception assassin is second to none in that field.

5k crit, 2k crit, 4k crit is totally normal for the kind of damage I can put out in 2 GCDs. It's pretty much gg from there.

 

I still do not see deception assasins criting for more than 4.3k max in a wz, and that 4.3k is against a fresh 50. Sometimes I will see a dection assasin topping out a 260k damage and 3.9k crit in a wz, but those are the top assasins running with their guildmates.

 

So you guys hitting 400k and 7k crits in wz deception speced, please share you rotation and strat.

Ok first off you are right about crits, anyone saying they are getting 5k+ is full of it, however i have been on average get between 260k-330k dmg per warzone and if things are going very well or the match goes the full time i get around the 380k-400k mark, my rotation is no different to what you posted either, so if you truly have never seen a decp do over 260k then either they are doing something wrong or they are getting some awful luck with being on a losing team getting owned all the time.

Oh and also for record i don't run pre-mades, best i ever get is some days i get a few matches with my Powertech mate.

example of a long/good match here: imageshack link (click on image once loaded for full size)

I do accept that deception's survivability (outside of running away in stealth) is laughable and needs some work but i don't accept anyone claims that deceptions are incapable of putting out some dam good damage.

Pretty sure Im playing the class right. And if you are doing 400k in a warzone you are in a premade being gaurded with heals or playing against undergeared players. Assasins on average crit for no more than 3.5k, where as scoundrels and ops are hitting for 4.5k to 5.5k on average. I would like to know what servers you guys are on doing all this damage in deception spec.

3.5k???? No way i crit for over 4k all the time and get 5k medals if i get lucky and crit some fresh 50.

Voltaic Slash, Shock, Discharge.

 

Woot Deception is hard.

Lol you go try that and let me know how you do. haha

3.5k???? No way i crit for over 4k all the time and get 5k medals if i get lucky and crit some fresh 50.

This is +1