Unlike Sents Gunslingers/Snipers have almost no decent defensive cooldowns and will melt if focused. Our damage is almost all white so we are awful vs tanks and if Shadows/Sins or Knights/Warriors pop there shield we only have a 50% chance to hit. Gunslingers are amazing at melting light armor targets good at killing medium armor but suck at killing tanks and can be useless if you pop that deflection shield.

Snipers/Gunslingers should eat every non-stealth melee class (well, the two of them) for breakfast, they are basically designed for it. Especially as those melee classes DO NOT have pretty good CC, with the exception of Juggernaut/Guardian TANKS. But tanks only.

 

Their bane are the stealth classes, that pop out from stealth and do huge burst on them. But they can have Entrench up 20 seconds out of 60 - that is the best defense against CC that any class has in the game.

 

I think the jug vengeance immunity on leap is better.

The reason why snipers dont need a nerf is not because of the individual matchups, they are all perfectly fine. Sniper is probably the only class that can scale exponentially well with the team. If the team is crap and does not pressure enemy then sniper is useless. Get me a skilled marauder that takes all the attention to himself, and i can decimate everyone.

 

Put me into a team of bad players, and i cannot carry them to victory alone, no matter how many i kill.

A PT however can have a greater impact on a bad team.

 

That's exactly what I've been saying. A sniper needs team support. Without it, he's completely useless. When you're beat by a sniper, its his team that beat you, not just him.

Snipers/Gunslingers should eat every non-stealth melee class (well, the two of them) for breakfast, they are basically designed for it. Especially as those melee classes DO NOT have pretty good CC, with the exception of Juggernaut/Guardian TANKS. But tanks only.

 

Their bane are the stealth classes, that pop out from stealth and do huge burst on them. But they can have Entrench up 20 seconds out of 60 - that is the best defense against CC that any class has in the game.

 

EDIT: I don't think they should be nerfed, before anyone assumes so.

 

It is, but like you said, against stealth classes it's very hard to use because you need to anticipate it, which is possible at times, but for the most part it isn't.

 

That said, its again a question of being in a warzone where everything is dynamic. Any non-stealth melee class can really rip up a sniper when he doesn't have his distance generating abilities off cooldown. Or, when two of them are coming at you, in which case you can stop one, but not both of them from getting to and doing a number on you. Maybe you can still out DPS the one that does, maybe not. Either way, you have the second coming up on you shortly.

Edited July 28, 2012 by Skolops

I think the jug vengeance immunity on leap is better.

 

The total maximum uptime of that is 20 seconds every minute, the same as in the case of the Gunslinger/Sniper; and you need to use Force Leap every time when it's available and also have to put in a Force Push > Force Leap combo. It's also a talent, not a default class ability.

 

Of course Unstoppable/Unremitting is insanely useful (especially as many ranged classes waste their stuns or knockbacks immediately after Force Leap while Entrench/Hunker Down is more visible, quite obvious in fact) but it requires more work to fully utilize

This is the thing. I remember when I played my Guardian I used to hate snipers and thought they were unapproachable and unkillable, with "1000 abilities all of them knockbacks" as I used to tell people. Then I played a Gunslinger and found out its actually only 1 knockback - 2 for the casting spec - with cooldowns and situational limitations.

 

When you're on the other side, though, its easy to go up to a sniper, get knocked back and rooted, knocked back and rooted again, die, and think that that is something the class can do on demand in every situation. I think people really need to play other classes to appreciate them and realize that things really aren't as they seem on the other side. This goes for marauders, snipers, even powertechs.

 

Playing a pyro powertech in pvp will only make you realize how much your class sucks in comparison. Go ahead and try it.

The total maximum uptime of that is 20 seconds every minute, the same as in the case of the Gunslinger/Sniper; and you need to use Force Leap every time when it's available and also have to put in a Force Push > Force Leap combo. It's also a talent, not a default class ability.

 

Of course Unstoppable/Unremitting is insanely useful (especially as many ranged classes waste their stuns or knockbacks immediately after Force Leap while Entrench/Hunker Down is more visible, quite obvious in fact) but it requires more work to fully utilize

 

Not really.. it works every time you leap. You don't need to figure out when it is necessary to use it, though you can go ahead and determine when it is tactically advantageous to take advantage of it.

 

Whereas with Hunker Down, its a lot harder to know when you're going to need it, and by the time you realize you need it its very often too late.

The total maximum uptime of that is 20 seconds every minute, the same as in the case of the Gunslinger/Sniper; and you need to use Force Leap every time when it's available and also have to put in a Force Push > Force Leap combo. It's also a talent, not a default class ability.

 

Of course Unstoppable/Unremitting is insanely useful (especially as many ranged classes waste their stuns or knockbacks immediately after Force Leap while Entrench/Hunker Down is more visible, quite obvious in fact) but it requires more work to fully utilize

 

Yeah but this is mobile CC immunit, you dont need to root yourself.

Unlike Sents Gunslingers/Snipers have almost no decent defensive cooldowns and will melt if focused. Our damage is almost all white so we are awful vs tanks and if Shadows/Sins or Knights/Warriors pop there shield we only have a 50% chance to hit. Gunslingers are amazing at melting light armor targets good at killing medium armor but suck at killing tanks and can be useless if you pop that deflection shield.

 

Pretty much this. Though as a GS I tend to disagree on the defensive CD side. Cover, hunker down, ballistic dampeners and scrambling field give a GS some pretty decent defensive abilities, not to forget they have a KB and ranged root on a low CD. Though as you said they will melt if focused, which pretty much goes for any other class bar tanks and sent/maras.

 

Also still waiting on that fraps recording showing the op going down in 3 hits that he said he'd post a reply on his other thread. Don't know why people bother to make threads without evidence in hand (either a fraps recording, or a combat log) to back their claims up.

Let me see if I understand this. Snipers do a ton of damage if allowed to free cast on people. (duh) Snipers are hard countered by assassins and operatives. Since DPS operatives are almost extinct and assassins just got nerfed pretty hard, snipers are disturbing the food chain now. Is this your complaint?

 

Snipers are incredibly easy to kill, LOS, and generally render ineffective. MM snipers do terrible damage against tanks and they are super squishy and immobile. Engineering snipers are great at stopping caps with plasma probe (broken really) and are a little tankier with ballistic dampening but are again immobile. Lethality is probably their best overall spec for pressure but they are pretty screwed when facing a team that is competent about dispels.

 

Now, snipers do seem to kill PTs and marauders. So ironic that snipers are "op" because they kill PTs and marauders. The solution seems obvious to me: Buff DPS assassins and operatives. Nerf marauders and PTs so that when they die it's not because of some egregious OP class but rather, they got outplayed. leave snipers alone.

*snip*

 

Tbh the only assassin i ever had problems with was tank ones, after nerfs less so. Deception sins are honestly not theat *imo* don't see them anymore in WZs either....

 

Really really good DPS operatives however... yeah I'd agree with u there. they hurt. bad. Its rare to see a good one, and rarer to see a good one with GEAR. On a side note MM sniper counters sniper pretty well if played proper so a Sniper is it's own counter *nods*

Edited July 28, 2012 by Lithy

think of snipers as a turret. get out of their "strong zone" and they're almost helpless

They shouldnt be able to take down someone in full warhero gear in 3 shots. /end thread

 

If your team is letting a sniper just sit there and dish out damage, you actually deserve to be ONE SHOTTED you noob.

 

/thread

Yeah but this is mobile CC immunit, you dont need to root yourself.

 

True. But I still believe the true strength of Unremitting compared to Entrench is that it's a lot harder to spot.

Tbh the only assassin i ever had problems with was tank ones, after nerfs less so. Deception sins are honestly not theat *imo* don't see them anymore in WZs either....

 

Really really good DPS operatives however... yeah I'd agree with u there. they hurt. bad. Its rare to see a good one, and rarer to see a good one with GEAR. On a side note MM sniper counters sniper pretty well if played proper so a Sniper is it's own counter *nods*

 

Well MM sniper has the most powerful anti-sniper tool in is game: Diversion. This thing alone can make enemy snipers completely seless. With one ability you remove cover and with it ballistic dampers, ballistic shield, cover abilities where the main dps comes from and on top of it adds an accuracy penalty.

Also still waiting on that fraps recording showing the op going down in 3 hits that he said he'd post a reply on his other thread.

Me too. Just yesterday, I fought a sorc with my sniper, and according to damage numbers he was not having Expertise, or few like ~600 as if wearing old champion gear...

 

And the fight had been like this :

Snipe - hit count : 1

Followthrough - hit count : 2 (+1)

Series of Shots - hit count : 6 (+4)

Ambush - hit count : 7 (+1)

Followthrough - hit count : 8 (+1)

Take down - hit count : 9 (+1)

 

Well, he died fast, but it's his fault not wearing anything decent... but still, I would love to see a 3-hit-KO.

Me too. Just yesterday, I fought a sorc with my sniper, and according to damage numbers he was not having Expertise, or few like ~600 as if wearing old champion gear...

 

And the fight had been like this :

Snipe - hit count : 1

Followthrough - hit count : 2 (+1)

Series of Shots - hit count : 6 (+4)

Ambush - hit count : 7 (+1)

Followthrough - hit count : 8 (+1)

Take down - hit count : 9 (+1)

 

Well, he died fast, but it's his fault not wearing anything decent... but still, I would love to see a 3-hit-KO.

 

It was only possible before 1.3 on recruit people with power relic and adrenals

They shouldnt be able to take down someone in full warhero gear in 3 shots. /end thread

 

Then that war hero is a muppet,land deserved what he got. Seriously if you are Qq about sniper - you are probably the worst player in the game. Snipers do what they are supposed do, you bloody nooby whiners complain about any class that can kill you.

I think sniper, as the only AC, is fine in the 50-bracket. Everyone els is too far down or too far up.

 

Snipers in 1-49 on the other hand, not so good. It is totally unreasonable that they can hit for 5K+3K within a second on people with 12K HP. That's like the equivlalent of almost 12K on a WH, I don't see hits like that in the 50 bracket.

Edited July 28, 2012 by MidichIorian

So can most classes.

 

No my sage you can't. Must be some **** awful sages on your server..

I think sniper, as the only AC, is fine in the 50-bracket. Everyone els is too far down or too far up.

 

Snipers in 1-49 on the other hand, not so good. It is totally unreasonable that they can hit for 5K+3K within a second on people with 12K HP. That's like the equivlalent of almost 12K on a WH, I don't see hits like that in the 50 bracket.

 

I played a very well geared gunslinger in the 1-49 brackets and never saw numbers like this. My only thought is that your gear is 10 or 15 levels too low.

I played a very well geared gunslinger in the 1-49 brackets and never saw numbers like this. My only thought is that your gear is 10 or 15 levels too low.

 

or his character was a sorcerer.

Edited July 28, 2012 by ccoolmint

I played a very well geared gunslinger in the 1-49 brackets and never saw numbers like this. My only thought is that your gear is 10 or 15 levels too low.

It has never happened to me but I saw it in a video the other day. Let me see if I can dig it up.

 

There's no way of telling how geared the enemies are. All I know is that I've never hit that hard on anyone in lowbie bracket with another class. Edited July 28, 2012 by MidichIorian

They shouldnt be able to take down someone in full warhero gear in 3 shots. /end thread

 

make sure you post that fraps of you getting owned that you promised so we can laugh at you!

In a group setting, snipers are easy as hell to kill under FF. They're def cd is 3 min cd, and it requires them to sit still. VGs and sents are studier under FF and do just as much dam.

 

For control of the field though, no one beats a sniper and that is why my rwz team almost always uses one.